How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:20 pm

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Ano » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:32 pm

I don't think anyone pays attention to these things, but I just wanted to come in here and apologize for defending the actions of these camps a few months ago. I had spoken at length with someone who was involved in a PnP while on-playa and gotten one impression, however, with the info that has been coming out... I am very clearly in the wrong. So, I was an idiot, and I apologize.

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby robbidobbs » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:55 pm

Wow, Fishy. I'm floored by your sig. So appropriate at this juncture.
No really, I'm sick to the teeth about the discussion. It's a fine math detail that is so fraught with philosophical peril it makes me cower back into to safety of my blue boxes.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:30 am

Balance requires exploration.

Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is fulfillment. This life is nothing short of a condensing spark of intergalatic balance.

Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the infinite via supercharged electrons.


We exist as sub-atomic particles. By ennobling, we dream. To go along the circuit is to become one with it.


We dream, we vibrate, we are reborn. The totality is beaming with ultra-sentient particles. Nothing is impossible.

Health is a constant. Consciousness consists of supercharged waveforms of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a refining of the transformative. Chi is the driver of self-actualization.

We are at a crossroads of energy and greed.

How should you navigate this interstellar stratosphere? Although you may not realize it, you are non-local. Have you found your story?

Being, look within and heal yourself. The universe is calling to you via a resonance cascade. Can you hear it? If you have never experienced this current inherent in nature, it can be difficult to dream.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:14 pm

Someone's been mainlining the bad new age babble generator again.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:16 pm

robbidobbs wrote:Wow, Fishy. I'm floored by your sig. So appropriate at this juncture.

I assume that you mean the bad pun that riffs off someone else's sig line (and allows me to covertly express my frustration with the gendered insult) and not the bad pun connected to the Crimean War.

Well, thanks.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Eric » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:27 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
If you're selling a service/product


then you are goddamn, motherfucking, son of a bitch ass licking cocksucking DOING IT WRONG.


I never had a problem with the turnkey camps - at least not when I thought they were generally playing on the same field as the rest of us (I knew they got some special preferences, but I thought it was along the line of what Theme Camps get, which I was mostly okay with). The information that's been coming out - especially the "donation ticket" email - has changed my thoughts on them completely. There is no way I can support the Commodity Camps, not as an idea and not as a fact, they go against the very grain of what the event is supposed to be. There's way too much evidence to suggest the participants (us) are getting screwed, and that pisses me off - I'm especially pissed about all the people waiting in STEP while The Rich breezed by on their "donation" tickets.

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:45 pm

Thank you for speaking up Eric. 8)
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby DrYes » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:18 pm

I wonder how long this has actually been going on for. I know that people have been able to get tickets through Green Tortoise in previous years, for instance, though that's only really relevant for the years since BM started selling out of tix.

I can almost see how it evolved if it started with PnP camps like Green Tortoise. Nobody really complained about them, and so perhaps (pure speculation) the BMORG decided to expand the relationship they had with formal PnP camps.

I'm not sure where you'd draw the line between Green Tortoise and the things we've heard about camps like Caravansicle, but I'm pretty comfortable saying you could draw a line somewhere between the two and refuse to provide the latter with placement, early entry, and the other things that a PnP needs to survive. We can be radically inclusive without granting special privileges to PnP's that they've done nothing to deserve.

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Jackass » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:00 pm

And to think that a little over two months ago I was merely a ranting fool jackass with no evidence for support. Being told that I should just let it go and to vote with my feet...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby motskyroonmatick » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:42 pm

Answer girl is a real person filling a need where work is to be done and I've never had anything but a positive interaction with her. Like most of us I'm sure she follows guidance from those above her in the hierarchy. Any vitriol aimed at her for TKC/PNP presence I think is substantially off target.

As mayor of a large theme camp that has members looking for tickets right up to the burn I whole heartedly support an absolutely level playing field for access to tickets.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Eric » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:24 am

Jackass wrote:And to think that a little over two months ago I was merely a ranting fool jackass with no evidence for support. Being told that I should just let it go and to vote with my feet...


As with most things, evidence helps massively in formatting an opinion. Simply yelling about something doesn't make it true, no matter what Fox News gets their viewers to think. I've been watching & reading and hadn't seen anything solid enough to make me to assume those camps were getting special treatment (it's not that I didn't think Caravansary were assholes, I just didn't think the whole system was rotten), the tipping point for me were the donation emails and the fact that Steve Young specifically joined the BMan Project "to facilitate donor activation and support development of the Project’s strategic plan". That's a pretty damn blatant link between these backdoor tickets and the Commerce Camp bullshit, and it's enough for me to admit that you, and the others who've been shouting this for months, were correct and I was wrong. Sadly the shrill shouting has closed some minds to even this evidence, but no-one can be forced to actually look at the facts as they become available (again, Fox news viewers come to mind).
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Jackass » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:57 am

Sadly the shrill shouting has closed some minds to even this evidence, but no-one can be forced to actually look at the facts as they become available


It's a bit tougher these days to keep the head buried in the sand, in light of all of these leaks.

My statement above wasn't directed at you specifically, it's all good. Everyone has had to eat their hat at one point or another, I do it all the time!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:12 am

Eric....thank you for being honest, i respect your opinion enormously, as a Mod, and as a friend.

i have got a lot of flack for my rants via back channels, and may have lost a couple of "friends" but it was out of love that i got angry....i sometimes take things a bit too far, and i overemphasize things for effect, i apologize if anyone thought my words or posters were mean...they were SATIRE, meant to point out obvious (at least to me) contradictions between what was said, and what was done.

know this..... i love Black Rock City, i love our community, and i am willing to FIGHT for it, i know that goes against the whole non-violent, let it go hippy dippy buddhist pseudo philosophy many spout, but sometimes, it IS NECESSARY to fight in order to survive.



so, can i come in from the cold and stop screaming from the wilderness now?
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby unjonharley » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:27 am

If we do not hear from BMorg on step tickets.. Is this going to mean avoid step in the future?
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Elderberry » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:48 am

So could anybody make a $650.00 "donation" and get a ticket (or ten) and a $250.00 tax deduction to boot? Who exactly is that offer being made available to and why has that "donation" program not been made public?
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby vargaso » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:21 am

Elderberry wrote:So could anybody make a $650.00 "donation" and get a ticket (or ten) and a $250.00 tax deduction to boot? Who exactly is that offer being made available to and why has that "donation" program not been made public?


Screenshots of “donation ticket” screens with an order for 10 tickets (yeah it's burners.me, but the dude has been right about this issue all along):

http://burners.me/2014/10/30/burnileaks ... t-tickets/

Details how Larry and Marian visited Soho House in LA (basically a country club for well-heeled and -connected urbanites):

http://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comm ... p_tickets/

From the post:

“At the end of the speech, Marian told the audience that if anyone wanted to go, Burning Man was sold out already, but if you spoke to them they would hook you up with tickets. My friend went up and they gave her a card and was told she can purchase a ticket for $600, that $350 would cover the ticket and $250 would be donated to a Burning Man charity of her choice.”

So there you go. BMORG is blatantly courting wealthy enclaves and offering the opportunity to buy tickets outside of pre-sale, general sale, STEP and OMG. And with no time or amount restrictions. Must be nice. You know what would be really cool and in line with the generally agreed-upon BM principles? If BMORG reached out to underserved communities with the same kind of ticket perks. That would be kind of awesome. But no, same ol’ same ol’, butter up the already fortunate and well-connected with offers they could easily get on their own. Kind of like those Oscar gift bags. Whatevs…

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Elderberry » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:09 am

Frankly, I don't find what Marian did at Soho House that off-putting. I'm sure they have actually gifted (as in free) to personal friends and acquaintances and that probably has been happening every year. This was a bit of a twist, in that I could see where that would make extra money for 'charity' (hopefully that's where the extra money would go).

But making such large blocks of tickets available to special interest groups on the playa isn't right at all. (IMO)
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:48 am

rankly, I don't find what Marian did at Soho House that off-putting.



seriously?


or are you being "sarcastic" again.


it's so hard to tell john, your opinions change by the minute it seems.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:50 am

Some of us have good noses and can smell the bullshit coming when it's miles away, and others won't know 'til it hits 'em in the face.

The petition is up over 1,000 signatures, surely that's enough for the weasel to take notice?



I have to admit though, this is exciting. There's been ticket fiasco's and parking pass shit storms, but of all the management level fuck-ups I've had the honor to be around for (or hear about from the old-farts), this one is a real, honest to god fuck-up. They didn't make a logistical mistake while trying out some new ticket distribution system, they went behind our backs and broke the rules. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but they did it anyways. And we found out.

Now we have a wonderful opportunity to see what they're really made of. And they have the opportunity to show us. Is the accountability show real or just an act? After burn reports and BLM inspections just dogs and ponies? Or do they really care?


We'll sure find out soon wont we?

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:55 am

I have to admit though, this is exciting



i know...Riiiiiiiiight?


i keep waiting to see Larry Dressed up as Captain Lou Albano and have him trot out the Moon Dogs.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby gaminwench » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:56 am

FWIW ...
I think that this was perhaps begun in 2006 (or 7?), when Entheon (huge PnP) hosted the MAPS conference at BRC.
They were our 'neighbors' and it was a shitstorm.
So many clueless burgins with no real interest in participating, $3,000 'condos' made out of shipping containers, zero 'nice neighbor' interactions.
But there were rich and famous people, so it's all good.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby H.G.Crosby » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:59 am

Go MoonDogs Go!!!


destroy the fabulous ones!!!




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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:08 pm

dude, get with the pogrom.


larry and the moon dogs lose.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby unjonharley » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:42 pm

What happened to hitler and eva...
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Eric » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:09 pm

Elderberry wrote:Frankly, I don't find what Marian did at Soho House that off-putting.


So the idea that one of the main players of Burning Man offered tickets to rich people, after they were "sold out" for everyone else, and while there were still people (hundreds? thousands?) waiting in STEP isn't off-putting? To me that's basically a huge "fuck you" to average Burners from Marian and the Org. The event is in permanent sell-out status now, and giving your rich buddies special perks at the expense of the participants who actually make the event something those rich people want to attend is ... I think "off-putting" would be my mildest description.

gaminwench wrote:I think that this was perhaps begun in 2006 (or 7?) [snip]


It's been going on for years at a much lower level, and we even did a story on it in 2011. Pre-sellout it wasn't really an issue. Their getting tickets didn't come at the expense of other, poorer, Burners; and the camps were a "dirty little secret" for most of the participants (except their neighbors) - they were generally fairly off the radar, so it wasn't impacting the event as a whole. That's changed now, and giving them special privileges over the rest of us is the nail in the coffin.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Lonesomebri » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:16 pm

Elderberry wrote:....But making such large blocks of tickets available to special interest groups on the playa isn't right at all. (IMO)


Really? Really? And the sun comes up in the east? Really? Isn't there some dead-end form you can fill out about this? Why comment here on eplaya where your whining will do nothing?
Yeah, the stench is getting pretty bad, hard to ignore, even when the desire to do so is so strong.
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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby vargaso » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:44 pm

It's pretty clear at this point that the whole transition to a non-profit in order to "gift the event back to the community" has resulted, whether intentionally or not, in ceding control to a group of people who've spent their professional lives looking for ways to package and monetize social/cultural phenomena. We have high-level executives and/or founders of companies like Fest300 (mission statement is literally packaging and monetizing festival attendance), AirBnB (packaging and monetizing couch-surfing), QVC (packaging and monetizing shitty products and foisting them off to mostly elderly people on fixed incomes) on the Burning Man Project board of directors. It seems they look at Burning Man as an untapped crucible for economic development, both the event itself and the business opportunities that could result from the on-playa networking, so the focus is now on luring business leaders to the event. The bullshit rhetoric about blowing these people's minds and transforming their business outlook is crap, especially when their every need is catered to so they never have to leave their comfort zone.

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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:48 pm

especially when their every need is catered to so they never have to leave their comfort zone.




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Re: How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

Postby Jackass » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:56 pm

vargaso wrote:It's pretty clear at this point that the whole transition to a non-profit in order to "gift the event back to the community" has resulted, whether intentionally or not, in ceding control to a group of people who've spent their professional lives looking for ways to package and monetize social/cultural phenomena. We have high-level executives and/or founders of companies like Fest300 (mission statement is literally packaging and monetizing festival attendance), AirBnB (packaging and monetizing couch-surfing), QVC (packaging and monetizing shitty products and foisting them off to mostly elderly people on fixed incomes) on the Burning Man Project board of directors. It seems they look at Burning Man as an untapped crucible for economic development, both the event itself and the business opportunities that could result from the on-playa networking, so the focus is now on luring business leaders to the event. The bullshit rhetoric about blowing these people's minds and transforming their business outlook is crap, especially when their every need is catered to so they never have to leave their comfort zone.


Well put, I couldn't agree more
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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