My letter to the Burning Man Project

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
Leo
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Leo » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:14 am

Sandstorm,
You have been very articulate with expressing your concerns about the BMORG and the direction they are headed with the commodification camps. I would like to be optimistic and hope that they have the balls/ovaries to admit they made a mistake and start making some reforms. I guess we will find out on December 2nd if we get answers or spin. I hate to see the BMORG continue on the same path, which to me is taking Burning Man downhill. Ultimately it is their gig, and if the choose to continue with commodification, I will be attending the regionals as an alternative. Thanks for keeping this discussion going.
Best Regards,
Leo

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Sandstorm
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sandstorm » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:02 pm

Leo wrote:Sandstorm,
You have been very articulate with expressing your concerns about the BMORG and the direction they are headed with the commodification camps.
Leo: Thank you for your kind words.

At this point it's going to take a radical COME TO JESUS moment from Larry & Co. to make me continue my relationship with BM. While I enjoy using my writing skills to voice my concerns about the ComCamp Controversy I'm also displeased that I had to make my voice heard about issues that so many Burners see as being common sense but which Larry & Co. are clueless.

I hope that your Burner spirit continues to find ways to manifest outside of BRC. :)

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theCryptofishist
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:40 am

I hope it works.
crass as hell...

I worry about the yearly virgin percentage. And about the those crazy bite off more than they can chew sophomores. Is that enough of a replacement rate to keep the thing going so that the rich and powerful have something to look at/do when they are there?
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Sandstorm
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sandstorm » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:55 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I hope it works.
crass as hell...

I worry about the yearly virgin percentage. And about the those crazy bite off more than they can chew sophomores. Is that enough of a replacement rate to keep the thing going so that the rich and powerful have something to look at/do when they are there?
Crypto: Last night I finally made the time to read the Reddit discussion that was initiated by the woman at the heart of the SHERPAGATE controversy. In the comments in that discussion there were a couple of great posts that speak to what you wrote about the influx of newbies into and the exodus of veterans from BM. I've pasted below the permalinks to the comments in question. If anyone hasn't read the Reddit discussion in question I heartily encourage you to check out the below links.

Regarding your question about whether or not the BM spectacle will remain engaging enough for the clueless affluent rubes at the ComCamps to keep coming to BM, I think that the 2015 burn will say a lot about the future of the event. There's so much rancor in the community that there's a fair chance that some people and camps will temporarily or permanently drop out of the event and that a fair number of those who end up attending the event will prank the f*ck out of the ComCamps and First Camp.

A LOT of Burner eyes and minds are focused on the BM site and waiting to see if Larry & Co. actually really say anything or do anything about the ComCamp Controversy.




DoctorIknow
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by DoctorIknow » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:28 pm

theCryptofishist wrote: I worry about the yearly virgin percentage. …. Is that enough of a replacement rate to keep the thing going so that the rich and powerful have something to look at/do when they are there?
Back in disco days at Studio 54, the doorman/gatekeeper would “make a salad” every night, choosing who could get in and who couldn’t.

-----The celebrities needed to be there to attract the middle class folks.
-----The street people/punks/artists/freaks needed to be there (sometimes let in free) or the celebrities and middle class would think the experience artificial.
-----The middle class (“bridge and tunnel people”) were needed as they were the ones buying the drinks making the club profitable.

The doorman was the key to the perfect “salad.”

Unfortunately for the BurningMan DoorPersons, the artists/freaks and paying “middle class” don’t give a fuck about coming to the event to see celebrities, except for maybe the EDM crowd, which displeasure from long time burners has been voiced articulately and loud.

As Cryptofishist mentioned....heaven forbid the rich and powerful might come to feel the BM ambiance isn't attractive anymore.

Who knows, maybe "Dec. 2" the Org will share their GateKeeper Salad Recipe?
One can always have hope :D

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Sandstorm
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sandstorm » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:07 pm

DoctorIknow wrote:...Who knows, maybe "Dec. 2" the Org will share their GateKeeper Salad Recipe?...
Your great post has earned you salad dressing to go with your Gatekeeper Salad. :)
20120508-ranch-group.jpg
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:55 pm

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Frida Be You & Me

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Sandstorm
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sandstorm » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:44 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:.
Simon: Is that the new and official Burning Man mascot? I heard that Maid Marian wants to use Burning Man to encourage the default world to eat more salads. Last year I was at a play party at Jim Tananbaum's place and Maid Marian said something to Elon Musk about how she loves to have her salad tossed. She was talking about mixed baby field greens, right?

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Roundabout
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Roundabout » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:42 pm

DoctorIknow wrote:...Who knows, maybe "Dec. 2" the Org will share their GateKeeper Salad Recipe?...
Where does the idea that the Borg will make its announcement on Dec 2 come from? Are we sure about this date?
Every aspect of life is education. Even if you don't immediately grasp the lesson. robbidobbs

DoctorIknow
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by DoctorIknow » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:29 pm

Roundabout wrote:
DoctorIknow wrote:...Who knows, maybe "Dec. 2" the Org will share their GateKeeper Salad Recipe?...
Where does the idea that the Borg will make its announcement on Dec 2 come from? Are we sure about this date?
Just repeating what was mentioned twice in this very thread...

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:15 am

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Frida Be You & Me

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Jovankat
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Jovankat » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:04 am

Who is Robert Boyce?

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:14 am

[media]
Frida Be You & Me

Ano
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Ano » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:14 pm

I sincerely hope to eat my words, but, December 2nd has been a regretfully uneventful day.

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FIGJAM
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:42 pm

I don't know how you missed it!

They seemed genuinely apologetic about taking the money. 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMqZ-BAjVyQ
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

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Sandstorm
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sandstorm » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:41 pm

Well, it seems that the rumor about THE BORG making a ComCamp related announcement on December 2nd was just misinformation that was leaked to a would-be whistelblower. Oh, well. :(

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Sham
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sham » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:17 am

Don't let these anticipations and issues consume you. Remember, the holidays are right around the corner. 8)

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Sandstorm
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sandstorm » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:20 am

Sham wrote:Don't let these anticipations and issues consume you. Remember, the holidays are right around the corner. 8)
That's right, shoppers. Ignore the ComCamp Controversy and jack into the Default world's Christmas flavored Wave of Consumption. :(

Leo
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Leo » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:02 pm

The recent posts in "The Voices of Burning Man" (aka the Burning Blog) from Larry Harvey and the BMORG are a good first step, but there are still too many unanswered questions. I feel that Larry and the BMORG had to respond the the constant questions asked by many burners here and on the Burning Blog. If we didn't keep the pressure on them there would be no response. We still need to keep the pressure on the BMORG concerning J.T. and his commodification camp. Three months of radio silence is a long time to issue a response about a board member with an apparent conflict of interest. It seems like this could be handled in three ways:
1. An apology from J.T.
2. J.T. resigns from the BOD
3. The BOD dismisses J.T.

Thanks to all of you that won't let the BMORG "sweep this issue under the rug".
Best Regards,
Leo

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Sandstorm
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:44 pm

Leo wrote:The recent posts in "The Voices of Burning Man" (aka the Burning Blog) from Larry Harvey and the BMORG are a good first step, but there are still too many unanswered questions. I feel that Larry and the BMORG had to respond the the constant questions asked by many burners here and on the Burning Blog. If we didn't keep the pressure on them there would be no response. We still need to keep the pressure on the BMORG concerning J.T. and his commodification camp. Three months of radio silence is a long time to issue a response about a board member with an apparent conflict of interest. It seems like this could be handled in three ways:
1. An apology from J.T.
2. J.T. resigns from the BOD
3. The BOD dismisses J.T.

Thanks to all of you that won't let the BMORG "sweep this issue under the rug".
Leo: IMHO, most Burners are smart people who don't f*ck around, have good planing skills and prefer straight answers and honesty. That's the thing that's so frustrating with THE BORG and Larry & Co. ; they tend to make dumbass mistakes, go MIA when the sh*t is hitting the fan and let Larry speak for the event in ways that tends to piss Burners off even more than they were before Larry addressed the unhappy masses. Has no one in THE BORG and the founders heard of something called Public Relations? Yes, I agree that the recent ComCamp realted blog entry that was written by BM was a step in the right direction. The thing is though that it did not at all address the disaster that was Caravansicle or JT's role in it. In fact the only reference that that blog entry made to Caravansicle and JT was to say that BOD members' personal involvement in ComCamps was personal in nature and thus THE BORG was not going to get involved. Really? Is there some kind of weird glass prism through which many of the members of THE BORG, the founders and THE BOD read ComCamp related the emails, letters and internet posts that people have been churning out over the past almost 3 months? I ask that because when I read those posts I'm really clear about what it is that pissed off burners are looking for from THE BORG. Why the f*ck can't they see what you and I and others see in these posts? :shock:

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theCryptofishist
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:56 pm

Sandstorm wrote:IMHO, most Burners are smart people who don't f*ck around, have good planing skills and prefer straight answers and honesty
*snip*
Has no one in THE BORG and the founders heard of something called Public Relations?
I agree the communications between participants and organizers is fubared six ways to Tuesday.
However, I do find this a little funny. I think that there are many participants that don't want PR type communication. I think that if the organization is seen to "spin", t hey will simply piss everyone off more. It's not that I don't think there can't be good communication between the two groups, but it would take someone caring a lot, working on it at least at full time job level, and I don't see any indications that that exists right now.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

maladroit
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by maladroit » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:00 pm

PR doesn't automatically have to apply spin, nor does it have to be synonymous with marketing (or done by the same people).

At least, when the product is good.

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theCryptofishist
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:25 pm

Understood. But... well, look at who we're talking about. I don't know if they are capable of the openness and honesty it would take. They'd far prefer the manipulation of spin.

At least taht's how I read their characters.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

maladroit
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by maladroit » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:15 pm

It is a business mindset, which shares a lot with the poker mindset. These people are accustomed to attaching monetary or damage values to information transfer.

DoctorIknow
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by DoctorIknow » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:49 pm

maladroit wrote:These people are accustomed to attaching monetary or damage values to information transfer.
I would bet the words chosen for the two Dec. 3 postings by Larry Harvey and "Burning Man" concerning "The Board of Directors" would make the lawyer for the Org happy. If it was my non-profit, I would have passed the final draft by the lawyer. Maybe the lawyer even wrote that paragraph.

I fully expected to see the words "it is unfortunate" at least once..... one of many neutral phrases lawyers use that only an idiot would think were acceptance from the lawyer's clients of at least some responsibility in whatever matter was at hand....

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theCryptofishist
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:01 pm

Ah, I forgot about the lawyers. Which is a little odd for me, because since I started at the burns, I knew that some of the things that were being complained about were totally about the lawyers.

Maybe we like this. After all, some of us well nigh worship the back of the ticket verbiage, which is pure lawyer.

Or maybe it's just another driving apart of early event goers and the event now.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

maladroit
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Re: My letter to the Burning Man Project

Post by maladroit » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:43 pm

Well, you can use web startups as the petri dish. Twitter was just a site to share 140 character messages, it took off, investors fighting each other to buy a piece of something that had no discernible business model. That didn't really matter...because eyes, ears, and bodies have value. You can figure out how to make money later, as long as you have an audience. Today, Twitter makes a lot of money from advertising, cross promotion, celebrity interaction, etc. It makes money from the innate urge of people to be recognized as a unique individual, to show off what they can do, to grab a little bit of fame.

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