I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Elderberry
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:27 pm

Sandstorm, thanks but not necessary. Like Jackass said, I can defend myself. :wink: And per my first post regarding your letter, I think your approach to addressing this issue is doing it right.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by motskyroonmatick » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:02 pm

Finnegan wrote:The idea of a strike, or withholding volunteering, are about the only things that could push the org to be more responsive. If they ever find this thread, I imagine they will be breathing a sigh of relief at the apathy.
The first sentence I agree with whole heartedly 100%. The second sentence.....Yep....That too....

Thanks for the dance break Simon. That's a good one and still in my dusty record case. :D

Thanks for the positive, relevant and irrelevant comments and the reminder that persons are receiving whatever posting etiquette one chooses to use on eplaya.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Just_Joe » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:05 pm

Drifting back to the op.....
While not "on strike", I am feeling a lot like Motz.
Like many of you, I spend time, money, blood, sweat and tears on this outing for a reason.
Velvet ropes and $8 beer tickets would ruin it for me.

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Sandstorm » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:48 pm

Elderberry wrote:Sandstorm, thanks but not necessary. Like Jackass said, I can defend myself. :wink: And per my first post regarding your letter, I think your approach to addressing this issue is doing it right.
Elderberry: Thanks for your kind words. For better or for worse, I try to deal with reality in a constructive manner. I'm not much for throwing bricks or tantrums.

And I know that you can stand up for yourself. I was just trying to spread some love and levity to those present in this thread. :)
motskyroonmatick wrote:Thanks for the positive, relevant and irrelevant comments and the reminder that persons are receiving whatever posting etiquette one chooses to use on eplaya.
motskyroonmatick: I commend you for putting your reputation on the line via this thread. I wish that after you posted this thread more people had stepped up and followed your lead. That said, you're not alone in your feelings about this situation. I know for a fact that there's a well-known burner who's working behind the scenes on a theme camp and artist boycott. They recently teased me with a bit of info about their plans.
Just_Joe wrote:...Velvet ropes and $8 beer tickets would ruin it for me.
Just_Joe: Next year my theme camp's motto is going to be"

"SUCK A DICK, GET A WRISTBAND."

IMHO, that's Velvet Rope Policy at it's purest and finest. ;)

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Elderberry » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:19 pm

I'll be there! 8)
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Jackass » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:36 pm

Well, I'm sure glad we got that squared away. Now where did I set my torch and pitchfork?

We could use a little Bob around this place sometimes, he had a very "dead on" approach. He was right, and he knew it, and it stung.

As for the topic at hand, I guess we'll all be more informed come Tuesday. We shall see how this shit storm plays out from that point forth.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:30 am

Well Tuesday is tomorrow. Unless you are reading this tomorrow, then Tuesday would be today.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Ratty » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:35 am

I'm getting my hopes up for a news flash on the 2nd.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by unjonharley » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:42 am

If it go's against the mob-minded.. Do we have a big ole mob smash and grab shopping spree??

Yeah mob rule
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Ano » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:45 am

I thought 12/2 was today. I have been on a long spree of sickness and confusion.

I sure hope this apparently forthcoming blog has the details we want and the news we like. I have high hopes. Maybe it'll all work out.

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Ratty » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:52 am

You guys have probably already seen this but I just ran across it today. http://blog.burningman.com/2014/11/opin ... f-burners/
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:06 am

Ratty wrote:You guys have probably already seen this but I just ran across it today. http://blog.burningman.com/2014/11/opin ... f-burners/
Yes, that was his apology for writing this post http://blog.burningman.com/2014/11/opin ... lay-camps/

I think somebody mught have posted about this here previously.

Though it's obviously not a popular opinion to hold here, I think he's right. In both posts. Though this in no way should suggest that TirnKey camps need a much stricter set of guidelines and NOT be associated with anybody directly affiliated with BMORG or their BOD.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Ratty » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:14 am

Why on earth did he apologize? His first post was hilarious. When he said, "They paid their Greeters" I flashed on something. There should be a thread here for the one video that you hope never gets posted on the internet. I 'went off' on a couple when I was greeting. That would really give greeters a bad rep.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:17 am

Really Ratty?

The only time I've seen you even close to upset was when you honked my horn!!! :lol:
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by lucky420 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:17 am

Ratty wrote:Why on earth did he apologize? His first post was hilarious. When he said, "They paid their Greeters" I flashed on something. There should be a thread here for the one video that you hope never gets posted on the internet. I 'went off' on a couple when I was greeting. That would really give greeters a bad rep.

I think he apologized because of all the responses he got that people did not find it funny. Personally I loved the responses...
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Ratty » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:22 am

Figjam. You're an asshole. You enjoyed scaring me half to death WAY too much. But I love you for it. I was greeting and this young couple of 1st timers got out of the car. He had a Go Pro camera on a stick to steady it against the ground. He stuck it in my face and I told him not to diplomatically how I felt about the intrusion. Probably wasn't the welcome they anticipated. I would like to see the footage and then burn it.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by unjonharley » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:24 am

Did anyone think to ask a greeter if those motor homes payed the $40
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:24 am

Ratty wrote:Figjam. You're an asshole. You enjoyed scaring me half to death WAY too much. But I love you for it. I was greeting and this young couple of 1st timers got out of the car. He had a Go Pro camera on a stick to steady it against the ground. He stuck it in my face and I told him not to diplomatically how I felt about the intrusion. Probably wasn't the welcome they anticipated. I would like to see the footage and then burn it.


Were you doing naked greeters?
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Ratty » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:28 am

No. Just a regular shift but it struck me wrong. I'm not used to paparazzi. I guess they missed the part where you should ask before filming.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:35 am

Ratty wrote:No. Just a regular shift but it struck me wrong. I'm not used to paparazzi. I guess they missed the part where you should ask before filming.
They must have been pretty obnoxious. On my shift we encouraged and even set up photo and film opportunities for the first timers, as I'm sure you did with others.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by unjonharley » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:01 am

unjonharley wrote:Did anyone think to ask a greeter if those motor homes payed the $40
again
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Jovankat » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:09 pm

Elderberry wrote:Well Tuesday is tomorrow. Unless you are reading this tomorrow, then Tuesday would be today.
Also the sky is blue.

Although it's actually Tuesday today where I am. And it's overcast.
Ratty wrote:You guys have probably already seen this but I just ran across it today. http://blog.burningman.com/2014/11/opin ... f-burners/
Elderberry posted that in another thread a few days ago saying he found it interesting. Unfortunately when Bri and I responded to say we'd found some of the comments left below it interesting, particularly the ones from Caveat himself in which he slightly changed his position, the conversation quickly devolved in a meta conversation and no actual discussion about the blog piece was had. :roll:
Ratty wrote:Why on earth did he apologize? His first post was hilarious. When he said, "They paid their Greeters" I flashed on something. There should be a thread here for the one video that you hope never gets posted on the internet. I 'went off' on a couple when I was greeting. That would really give greeters a bad rep.
While I personally didn't find the first post that amusing I was surprised by how many people didn't even realise it was a joke. I had a bit of an argument with someone on Reddit who kept saying "it's so out of touch with the mood of the community" in a thread full of outrage at the post. You can't cause that much outrage by satirising people unless you've got some idea of what's going on. Although he did go on to say this;
Caveat wrote:...And while it is damn uncomfortable to be in the middle of an internet shitstorm, I don’t think I have any room to ask people to make it less personal. Because I led with a joke. I made fun of something that a lot of people are truly passionate about, and the fact that I hoped it would go over better isn’t an excuse. I didn’t start with a well-reasoned, gentle, epistle: I opened with a joke, I laughed at a topic they take seriously, and of course that makes it personal. I don’t have to agree with a word of it (or think I “deserve” it) … but I believe firmly that if you’re going to prank, you have to take responsibility when the prank goes wrong. I fucked this up, so, okay: people get to tell me I’m a terrible human being in a variety of ways. It sucks, but they mean it to suck, and I started it.

I really appreciate your consideration, though. Thank you.

And for what it’s worth: many commenters here are right. I didn’t “get it.” I thought the issue was about gentrification – and actually I think it still is. But (it seems to me) what the people screaming at me are screaming at me about is *accountability.* I might be right that the underlying issue is one of gentrification – that’s my opinion, I mean it, and I’m entitled to it. But when they say “you’re not hearing our complaint, you’re not getting what we’re talking about,” they were right. I missed their point.
This is a complex issue with many parts, the thing that I'm finding so frustrating is how difficult it is to just have a actual thorough discussion about the it without getting sidetracked by technicalities, tangents and personal attacks. I think that comment by Caveat shows that if you engage with the actual meat of the issue there is progress to made though.

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Mojojita » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:15 pm

No money is collected at Greeters for anything. You are thinking of Gate.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Elderberry » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:19 pm

Haha. I forgot I was the one that posted it. (must be the Ahlzheimer's)

And stop trying to confuse me on what day it is. :shock: :?: :?
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by DrYes » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:49 pm

I don't know if I'm "on strike" or not, but I totally get where the OP is coming from and why he's decided to go on strike.

Discovering that the BMORG has been openly two-faced about commodification camps has been quite dispiriting for me. I'd prefer not to be made into a commercial victim on the playa, but I also don't see any difference between ice/coffee/lemonade/RV pumping/fuel and a commodification camp selling spots to its members. It's all commodification. What I object to is the double-standard for commodification camps like Lost Hotel, Caravansicle, and even Green Tortoise, vs. theme camps (ie camps that give something back). Let the commodification camps come, but let them see how difficult it is to run a for-profit camp that gives nothing back when they can't get early entry passes, can't get any special preference for ticket sales, and can't get placement. I think it'd be virtually impossible to run a quality operation that way. Sounds like some of them had enough problems this year even with the unearned privileges they got.

Anyway, as the old BM website was so horrible I'd been working on a resource site aimed mainly at new Burners, with advice that's a little less verbose and to the point than some of what's on the official site, collections of videos I've enjoyed, etc. Really, it's just been a way for me to decompress this year by giving me a BM-related project to work on. I got it to a releasable-version weeks ago and have been sitting on it because I just don't know how I feel about committing myself to further work on it by releasing it. Why should I do anything that helps increase demand for tickets for BM and lines the pockets of LarryCo if they're treating camps that give back worse than camps that give back nothing?

It's been really kind of depressing. I love going to BM so much, but bitterness is creeping in and it's killing some of my enthusiasm and Burner-y-ness. I caught myself wondering yesterday if there's any good reason why I shouldn't just create sock puppet Burner profile accounts before the ticket sale this year, snap up as many tickets as possible, and just hold onto them to scalp and make a profit. That was a downer of a thought, however momentary.

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Sandstorm » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:39 pm

DrYes wrote:...It's been really kind of depressing. I love going to BM so much, but bitterness is creeping in and it's killing some of my enthusiasm and Burner-y-ness. I caught myself wondering yesterday if there's any good reason why I shouldn't just create sock puppet Burner profile accounts before the ticket sale this year, snap up as many tickets as possible, and just hold onto them to scalp and make a profit. That was a downer of a thought, however momentary.
DrYes: That was a great post. :)

I think that it's wonderful that you took the time to create that website. Your doing so is an example of what so many burners do, which is to take their passion for the event and their respect for the community and channel those positive energies into something that will benefit other burners. It's incredbly dispiriting to know that Larry & Co. don't actually share the same values and belief systems as does the majority of the Burner community.

You're not alone in having the thought that you did about acquiring and holding onto BM tickets; I had the same thought just last week. The fact that you and I had the same thought shows how sick some of Larry & Co.'s behavior has become. 3 months ago I wold have never imagined that I'd want to KEEP people from going to BM. Talk about a sea change.

I know that my relationship with BM has forever been tainted by the fallout from SHERPAGATE and from all the reading that I've done of some of the very thorough articles on burners.me. The truth is that Larry & Co.'s shenanigans have been going on for years. No matter how large and eloquent the outrage has been in response to the ComCamp Controversy I just don't see Larry & Co. having an outsized COME TO JESUS moment and admitting that they took the leadership of the event in a bad direction long before Popsicle Camp soiled the playa with their presence.

I'm very thankful for the fact that starting in '07 I was able to go to BRC 6 times. I hope to make one more trip to BM to say hello to some people and goodbye to BRC. Beyond that I can no longer proselytize for the event given the fact that it's being run by corrupt liars and schemers who ignore the principles of the event and community.

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by GreyCoyote » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:52 pm

Well spoken, Sandstorm. Well spoken indeed.

There may be a lot of "goodbyes" this year in the temple.... To BRC and Larry Harvey. And you know what? They wont fucking care. Because there is a Burner-rube born every minute, and BM is a cash & carry commodity.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by Sandstorm » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:12 pm

GreyCoyote wrote:Well spoken, Sandstorm. Well spoken indeed.

There may be a lot of "goodbyes" this year in the temple.... To BRC and Larry Harvey. And you know what? They wont fucking care. Because there is a Burner-rube born every minute, and BM is a cash & carry commodity.
Grey: Thanks. :)

You hit the nail on the head about what the vibe at The Temple may be like at next year's burn. Over the past few weeks I've come to realize that I do in fact want to go HOME next year because I want to lay to rest my relationship with BM and BRC. I'm not going to allow Larry & Co.'s lesser behavior to keep me from saying goodbye to BRC on my own terms.

I'm not sure what the future holds for BM. Yes, for the foreseeable future there's going to be newbies streaming into the event. That said, I think that in the long run the voices of the burners who are fed up with Larry & Co. will have an impact on the event, be it through protest at the event, boycotts, the(re)education of newbies or the beginnings of a new, large scale burner event that's not affiliated BM.

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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by GreyCoyote » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:41 pm

Sandstorm wrote: I think that in the long run the voices of the burners who are fed up with Larry & Co. will have an impact on the event, be it through protest at the event, boycotts, the(re)education of newbies or the beginnings of a new, large scale burner event that's not affiliated BM.
I do think it's time to take this whole thing away from Larry, his BMOrg, and the gaggle of capitalist henchmen he employs. Put the event back to a smaller scale and do it BETTER. Write some bylaws that have teeth, the first of which shall be these bylaws SHALL NOT be modified by profiteers. Make the event profitable to the point it self-sustains and pays a living wage to those who tend it faithfully, but thats it. Burningman should not exist to be someones retirement account or a sell-out to the very forces it (supposedly) denounces.

Less = More.
Less Larry = More Burn.
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Re: I'm on STRIKE!!!!!

Post by CaffeineGirl » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:51 pm

Imagine how fast the population would drop if the free booze and food dried up..................

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