LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:58 pm

I was trying to go to danger rangers page and it wouldn't load. Turns out (as i heard it through the grapevine anyway) that the owner of that website that shall remain nameless xxxxxx.me, had DR's Facebook account suspended.
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by digital » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:04 pm

Elderberry wrote:I was trying to go to danger rangers page and it wouldn't load. Turns out (as i heard it through the grapevine anyway) that the owner of that website that shall remain nameless xxxxxx.me, had DR's Facebook account suspended.
Ah ha! I figured something was up when his page stopped loading. Was hoping one of my comments didn't get me unfriended. I too heard FB pulled his page because the name Danger Ranger violates their real name policy. Doesn't surprise me in the least that xxxx.me reported it to get it pulled.

I too have witnessed .me engaging in sock puppet trolling and shady tactics. He had my ear until I experienced it first hand. He might make some valid points but his MO is disgusting and far less ethical than anything the Borg has engaged in, imo.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by vargaso » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:09 pm

digital wrote:
Elderberry wrote:I was trying to go to danger rangers page and it wouldn't load. Turns out (as i heard it through the grapevine anyway) that the owner of that website that shall remain nameless xxxxxx.me, had DR's Facebook account suspended.
Ah ha! I figured something was up when his page stopped loading. Was hoping one of my comments didn't get me unfriended. I too heard FB pulled his page because the name Danger Ranger violates their real name policy. Doesn't surprise me in the least that xxxx.me reported it to get it pulled.

I too have witnessed .me engaging in sock puppet trolling and shady tactics. He had my ear until I experienced it first hand. He might make some valid points but his MO is disgusting and far less ethical than anything the Borg has engaged in, imo.
Probably wasn't burners.me guy, at least he's saying it wasn't him:
http://burners.me/2014/12/04/charity-ve ... ment-72344

It wasn’t me. I was on there trying to clear up his false allegations. I thought he’d just blocked me.
I believe him.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by digital » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:16 pm

He also says he doesn't engage in trolling comments under different names.

I have personally been on the receiving end of a few and can't trust this guy.

Maybe I'm naive. All signs point to him.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:21 pm

In that same reply didn't he say he would persue it further though?
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Popeye » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:24 pm

It looks like Danger Ranger's Facebook page has been pulled but his comments have been reposted online

This is the most straightforward and, at least seemingly, honest comment from anyone from the ORG so far. I,ve got to agree with A-RockLeFrench that JT should stand up and speak for himself. If JT did truly made a mistake he needs to apologize and let everyone know what happened. He'll catch a lot of shit but that's what happens when you fuck up royally.
nobody wants to live in a world with only one flavor...

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:28 pm

Simon already posted DR's post here.
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=72779&start=30#p1053000
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Jovankat » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:28 pm

Elderberry wrote:]Also, in rereading danger rangers post again, I'm hoping that when he said that the person responsible won't be coming back, that he wasn't referring to the person/company Tanenbaum hired.
I'm pretty sure he is in fact referring to the EDM Producer JT Hired. The post very much seems to be placing the blame on him not JT

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:41 pm

Jovankat wrote:
Elderberry wrote:]Also, in rereading danger rangers post again, I'm hoping that when he said that the person responsible won't be coming back, that he wasn't referring to the person/company Tanenbaum hired.
I'm pretty sure he is in fact referring to the EDM Producer JT Hired. The post very much seems to be placing the blame on him not JT
That's a cop out and a free pass for JT. It was his camp, he chose and paid for the contractor, obviously without checking on his qualifications. The blame should fall entirely on JT's shoulders.
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Jovankat » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:00 pm

Elderberry wrote:
Jovankat wrote:
Elderberry wrote:]Also, in rereading danger rangers post again, I'm hoping that when he said that the person responsible won't be coming back, that he wasn't referring to the person/company Tanenbaum hired.
I'm pretty sure he is in fact referring to the EDM Producer JT Hired. The post very much seems to be placing the blame on him not JT
That's a cop out and a free pass for JT. It was his camp, he chose and paid for the contractor, obviously without checking on his qualifications. The blame should fall entirely on JT's shoulders.
I totally agree.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:21 pm

Danger Ranger's post was almost PERFECT...until he attacked the owner of b******.me. There was no need to do that and he ended up looking like an ass for doing so. While everyone is entitled to their opinion about that site and its owner the fact is that that site is the ONLY one that has shone a light on the quagmire of dysfunction and cronyism that seems to infest many aspects of THE BORG. If the leadership of BM wasn't so dysfunctional in many ways then there would be a WHOLE LOT LESS for b******.me and the rest of us to bitch about when it comes to the event and THE BORG.

Up until now I've been ruthless absolutely ruthless towards Jim Tananbaum but now I'm going to take a different approach. I want to hear JT speak up for himself and face the community. If he honestly meant no harm when he started Caravansicle then let's hear it from him how he let that mess of a theme camp make it into BRC. Given the fact that the camp turned out to be such a disaster wasn't there a point before the burn at which JT got the sense that something was amiss with the camp becoming a reality? JT's a very wealthy and successful guy and a 6 time Burner. One would think that he should have had enough business acumen and experience and enough on-playa experience to get the sense that his Theme Camp Start Up was about to simultaneously implode and explode.

On a final note, why the hell doesn't BM have someone like Danger Ranger acting as their PR spokesperson? Larry, Will and AnswerGirl make most Burners feel some blend of anxious, angry and nauseous. 95% of Danger Ranger's post had me wanting to stand up and clap at his clarity, forthrightness and honesty.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:42 pm

poo flingers who live in glass houses should not fling poo.

mr. burners.mexxxx got a heapin' helpin' o' Karma.


Tasty... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:51 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:poo flingers who live in glass houses should not fling poo.

mr. burners.mexxxx got a heapin' helpin' o' Karma.


Tasty... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
SImon: I JUST happened to catch the original content of your post, which was:
clue

buy one
Really?

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:06 pm

sandstorm, you seem like a nice fellow.


ever notice how when you're in a hurry everyone else on the road is an asshole?



step back....breathe.



this is supposed to be fun, remember?


seriously, i don't want to see you fall down the same dark sewer of a rabbit hole that your "friend" has with his delusional NWO blather amongst a number of other misleading at best, notions and biases.

a broken clock is right twice a day.

alex jones may post a fact or two.

fox news may get it right, through no fault of their own, every now and then.

if you keep feeding yourself that crap, you will get sick.

so, my advice to you? ask yourself if maybe just maybe you are being used.

it happens you know.

anyway, best of luck, sandstorm, in whatever you choose to do.
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by digital » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:17 pm

Simon, I love you.

/me flings some tasty poo

:D

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:40 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:sandstorm, you seem like a nice fellow.


ever notice how when you're in a hurry everyone else on the road is an asshole?



step back....breathe.

Simon: I'm not sure what to take from that. You were the one who breathlessly rushed forward and took a cheap shot at me and then rewrote your post. I don't see any reason why I need to step back and breathe here.

As for my unnamed sewer inhabiting friend, why can't I do that most adult of things and manifest a world view that draws upon the entire spectrum of world views? Why do I need to live in a mindset that is rigidly US VS. THEM? Why can't I choose to have interaction with someone who is perhaps over the top but who has never been as asshole to me?

As for my being used by my unnamed friend, if you've read my "Dear Burning Man" post on b******.me then you already know that in that piece I spoke about my reticence to make a guest post on that site. My unnamed friend did not give me any grief for expressing that sentiment on his site. My making that post put me in contact with Burners whom I did not know, folks who via PM privately shared with me their concerns about the manner in which Burning Man is being run. In some of those cases people shared with me their anecdotes about abusive work environments that they or their loved ones had experienced at Burning Man. I have ZERO regrets about having made my guest post on b******.me. My friend never tried to twist my written words or suggest a direction for my post.

I'm happy and proud to be a Burner and I try to express my BM related opinions in positive and constructive manners. I love many things about the event and I appreciate the hard work that so many folks in THE BORG do to make the event a reality. Separately, I have no qualms about speaking up the lesser behavioral patterns of Larry & Co. I'm thankful that I had a chance to get my thoughts about the ComCamp Controversy to a larger audience than they would have had just on my FB profile. If my doing so put me on THE BORG's (s)hit list then I'm cool with that fact. I'm not a spineless coward who would prefer to keep his head down just so that he can continue to be able to buy tickets to BM.

I'm not looking to get into a pissing match with you. I've enjoyed the considerable contributions that you've made to ePlaya and before now I've never had a problem with you. I was simply taken back when you took a swipe at me after I made a level headed and innocuous post. Have a good night. Dusty hugs. :)

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:55 pm

Sandstorm wrote:While everyone is entitled to their opinion about that site and its owner the fact is that that site is the ONLY one that has shone a light on the quagmire of dysfunction and cronyism that seems to infest many aspects of THE BORG.
Ever ask yourself why?
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:04 pm

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by digital » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:08 pm

What is your endgame, Sandstorm?

At some point we all need to make the decision to continue with this thing or walk away. It seems some people will never be fully satisfied with the response from The Org and should therefore find something else to fill their time. What started as a simple "Should I go back in 2015" has now turned into countless posts and an alliance with xxxx.me -- A person who seems more interested in spewing vitriol and a personal vendetta against BRC.

When does it end and you make your decision? Or are we still going to be discussing this in July? I post this comment with the best intentions and hope you take it as such. However, as I said a few weeks back to your OP, either continue your awesomeness with the Lamplighter family or walk away.

Contrary to the opinion of many, BM is NOT "Home" ... It's a fun party in the desert which requires a tremendous infrastructure to make work. When it stops being fun it's time to find something else that is.

Good luck in your decision.
D
Last edited by digital on Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:13 pm

Elderberry wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:While everyone is entitled to their opinion about that site and its owner the fact is that that site is the ONLY one that has shone a light on the quagmire of dysfunction and cronyism that seems to infest many aspects of THE BORG.
Ever ask yourself why?
Yes, just like I've asked myself why the inner power circle of Burning Man continues to run the event in ways that are dysfunctional, incompetent and self-defeating. I'm not the one making up those lesser behavioral patterns. I'm not the one allowing Larry to repeatedly and publicly insult the intelligence of burners. Sure, b******.me can be a bit much. It's also the only site that's dared to focus on Larry & Co.'s BS. You can piss on the site and its owner all that you want to but it and he have won the appreciation of a lot of burners and that's just the truth.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:45 pm

Sandstorm wrote:
Elderberry wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:While everyone is entitled to their opinion about that site and its owner the fact is that that site is the ONLY one that has shone a light on the quagmire of dysfunction and cronyism that seems to infest many aspects of THE BORG.
Ever ask yourself why?
Yes, just like I've asked myself why the inner power circle of Burning Man continues to run the event in ways that are dysfunctional, incompetent and self-defeating. I'm not the one making up those lesser behavioral patterns. I'm not the one allowing Larry to repeatedly and publicly insult the intelligence of burners. Sure, b******.me can be a bit much. It's also the only site that's dared to focus on Larry & Co.'s BS. You can piss on the site and its owner all that you want to but it and he have won the appreciation of a lot of burners and that's just the truth.
Prior to the whole not for profit thing, my position has always been that BM was a business, owned by LH and whoever else, and what they do and how they do it was nobody's business. You don't like it you don't go. No big deal. I own a company, my feelings are the same. Someone doesn't like what I do or what I sell or how I do it, they can go buy from somebody else.

However, if someone would start up a website that did not much more than attack my company or even write non-approved comments, I'd do everything in my power to get them shut down. It's none of there business and not their place. (picturing disgruntled employee here).

People that participate in burning man, especially artists and other organizers of large camps, do so as much for their own ego as because their love of the event.

Now, however, with the non-profit thing, they have opened the door to more accountability. The Tannenbaum thing has me a bit perturbed, but when all is said and done, no matter the outcome, I'll still go to the event. Why? Because its fun, because I enjoy compliments on our camp, which we work out tails off to build, I enjoy volunteering to make the event better, I enjoy the people I've met and the relationships I've formed, and I look forward to meeting them each year if only for a few minutes, and I could go on. When I no longer feel it's a cool thing to do, or it stops getting my rocks off, I'll stop going. And that's why I find these rants a bit humorous. If I were truly as upset as some people seem to be, burning man would be ancient history, and I certainly wouldn't be volunteering my time here either.

There are far more important thing in my life I have to worry about. This is a recreational pursuit, its not my cult or church and it's not my whole life.

For me, it's as simple as that.
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:08 pm

digital wrote:What is your endgame, Sandstorm?

At some point we all need to make the decision to continue with this thing or walk away. It seems some people will never be fully satisfied with the response from The Org and should therefore find something else to fill their time. What started as a simple "Should I go back in 2015" has now turned into countless posts and an alliance with xxxx.me -- A person who seems more interested in spewing vitriol and a personal vendetta against BRC.

When does it end and you make your decision? Or are we still going to be discussing this in July? I post this comment with the best intentions and hope you take it as such. However, as I said a few weeks back to your OP, either continue your awesomeness with the Lamplighter family or walk away.

Contrary to the opinion of many, BM is NOT "Home" ... It's a fun party in the desert which requires a tremendous infrastructure to make it work. When it stops being fun it's time to find something else that is.

Good luck in your decision.
D
digital: You wrote:
"I post this comment with the best intentions and hope you take it as such."
You clearly have no idea how hollow those words sound on the receiving end of your post.

Why do I have to have an endgame? Why does the fact that I choose to not piss on b******.me and its owner place me in a "personal alliance" with that person? I don't want to get into a confrontation with you. I just find it curious that no matter how clearly I've previously stated my thoughts about the ComCamp Controversy or the good and bad sides of how BM is run or how I interpret and perceive b******.me and its owner I'm suddenly being asked about the nature of my "endgame". Why am I suddenly not allowed to just be a casual part of this conversation? I'm not passive aggressive like some of the other folks in here. I don't make hit and run posts that attack people and then conveniently go MIA when people call me on my sh*t. I try to be a good Burner in here, on FB and in BRC but somehow I now have an agenda? It's weird and depressing to hear that interpretation of my presence in what I thought was meant to be a radically inclusive community. I guess that I was wrong about that last part.

As for whether or not I'll go back to Burning Man, this discussion that you and I are having here isn't taking place in a thread that I started to talk about either my relationship with BM or my feelings about the ComCamp issue. I'm just in here having a discussion with other people about an event and community that I care about. I didn't realize that my in-flux relationship status with BM took away either my ability to post on eplaya or my license to calmly speak my mind about BM related matters.

For what it's worth, yesterday I made a post on the BM blog that post contains these words:
"I'm thankful for the wonderful relationship that I had with Burning Man between ’07 and ’14. I believe in the people who build Black Rock City and fill it with creative content. I DO NOT believe in the people at the heart of the organizations that runs the event.

I’m not sure that I have it in me to make one last trip to BRC. While I’d love to say hello to some people and goodbye to BRC I don’t know that I want to go to BRC with anger and disillusionment in my heart. Only time will tell. What I do know is that my relationship with Burning Man is coming to an end."
I'll be honest with you. Until your most recent post in this thread I've always felt welcome in this group. I no longer do. I'm not being melodramatic when I say that, I'm just being honest. Between your post and Simon's jab at me and subsequent passive aggressiveness I can see that I'm being singled out simply because I'm not pissing on b******.me and it's owner and that's something I find strange given the fact that my thoughtful and cautious approach to speaking my mind is the antithesis of what you and Simon say is the style of b******.me and it's owner.

I haven't made posts questioning your motives or making note of your "endless" post count or telling you that you've drank Larry & Co.'s Kool Aid. By contrast, my daring to have an opinion that's different than yours has led you to ask me what my endgame is here. My apologies for being such an offensive presence in this group.

Wow, when the f*ck did this place become more Senator Joseph McCarthy and less Hunter S. Thompson?

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:17 pm

I'm not looking to get into a pissing match with you. I've enjoyed the considerable contributions that you've made to ePlaya and before now I've never had a problem with you. I was simply taken back when you took a swipe at me after I made a level headed and innocuous post. Have a good night.

your words, not mine.



now why don't you just back away from the keyboard and go get a beer and socialize or something...

and have a good night.
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Aurelia » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:06 pm

Whew!

Thank you Simon. You say it best.

Do shut up You are so wordy SS

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Admiral Fukkit » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:01 pm

No one likes long rants. Unless they're funny.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by digital » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:16 pm

And the award for Drama Queen goes to...!

Take a bow. I thought us homos were bad.

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:53 pm

digital wrote:And the award for Drama Queen goes to...!

Take a bow. I thought us homos were bad.
You're a homo?! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by digital » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:00 am

Elderberry wrote:You're a homo?! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Yes. In fact, a virgin I brought to BM 2012 is now a dedicated MudSkipper. :)

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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:04 am

I just want to say one more thing regarding opinions, a quote I've always liked.

Opinions are like ass holes. Everybody has one, and they're all full of shit.

Everybody here as an opinion on the PnP situation. Whose to say who is right or wrong? I can honestly say that I have found something that I could agree with in everyone that has posted, and just as many things I might not agree with. My thoughts and opinions have changed and been shaped by everything everybody has posted. Yes, even you Lonesomebri. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be posting at all. Nobody should feel offended or uncomfortable because of something someone posts that you don't agree with, or that questions you on your opinions. That's how people learn and grow and consensus is reached.
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
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Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe
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Re: LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

Post by Elderberry » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:06 am

digital wrote:
Elderberry wrote:You're a homo?! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Yes. In fact, a virgin I brought to BM 2012 is now a dedicated MudSkipper. :)
OMG who? And who are you? You can PM if you prefer.
JK
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http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

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