A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

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Leo
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Leo » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:38 am

After reading JT's carefully worded "non-apology", his statement could have been said in 9 words:
"I didn't do it and I won't do it again". (attributed to Louis Armstrong) Reading JT's wordy statement twice (to make sure I wasn't missing something) , I came to the following conclusions:
1. He doesn't get it.
2. He will throw anyone under the bus rather than take personal responsibility.
3. He should resign from the board to save the BMORG from any further embarrassment.

I'd like to close with another quote: "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging".
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by alt12 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:39 am

VultureChow wrote:In his defense, these practices of paid staff, wristbands, etc have been around for years.He's likely stayed on those camps. For him, that IS Burning Man. And no one in the organization taught him any differently. Instead, he was REWARDED for his way of burning by being given a leadership position.
100% nailed it. I would add that the "no one in the organization taught him any differently" because that as how they burn these days too. First Camp was the first Plug N Play camp after all. It makes total sense.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:48 am

i'll just leave this right here.



[media]
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Ano » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:49 am

Finnegan wrote: And this is how Germany got away with Pearl Harbor.
I actually laughed pretty hard at this statement - in a good way.

---
All of the rest of this post is not aimed at you, Finnegan - I just wanted to say that before I went on. It's just aimed at all of us, as a community of people who go to a thing in the desert.
---

...but at this point, I think we've seriously, truly exhausted everything we can do, and what we can read. What's next? Are we going to wait for a camper of Caravancicle to come out? Or maybe the producer, who is either an EDM guy, or a long-time burner with deep appreciation of the event?

I'm different from a lot of people here and on the internet, I had a direct interaction with Caravancicle this year. I was curious about the RV fortress on the outskirts of the city during EA, ended up meeting a guy working for this camp, and I visited them early in the week, and got served a pretty delicious cocktail. At the time, and in the initial weeks after, I was a defender. I've seen opulent camps on the playa, and I've seen rich people on the playa, and the initial message that Caravancicle got across to me was honestly positive. Not a lot of people have seen the space - I encourage you to check out some of the pictures. It really was a beautiful bar. Their camp really was laid out in a beautiful way, and their dome, man, their dome was fucking amazing. I also agree with the fact that any camp, big or small, placed or unplaced, is entitled to private space. My camp reserves our nicest shade structures for our tents, our hungover, and our out-of-sight activities, while our jankier and not-as-shady structure is for anyone to come in and chill under. You know what? If I had hundreds of thousands to burn, I'd probably set up some private potties for my camp, as well. I don't think opulence is the problem, necessarily.

With all the details that have come to light, though, the invisible ones I couldn't observe - (under)paid servants, asking if anyone would help for "$$$," mistresses of merriment (whom I have not been able to wrap my heads around as being any kind of positive thing ), private art cars (which were advertised on their website before it went down!), a bar that flat-out refused to serve people past the early part of the week, special placement, special treatment, and all of those other things I'm failing to mention... It's obviously become nasty.

And I was nasty, very nasty, for awhile. I posted on burnersxxx blog. I posted on the burning blog. I posted here, admitting that I had to eat my own words. I posted on Reddit, asking sherpagirl questions. I posted all over Facebook, arguing over nothing. I've been on a tornado of "I was wrong, but they were seriously fucking wrong" for a long time now.

And it's been a blast, really. It makes me so happy, that, despite all of the criticism this event draws, despite all of the accusations of it becoming a vanilla desert rave, despite all of the assholes at Caravancicle, this community is passionate enough to have the kind of response we are having here.

I'm not gonna lie, I come from a raver-festival background. I'm used to events where, if someone is having a difficult time, we distance ourselves from that person, lest we get roped in to someone's bad trip. I'm used to festivals where the police stand on the sidelines, with their arms crossed, sunglasses on, faces stone, staring at the crowd with disdain, waiting for the exact moment when they can shut the place down. I'm used to parties that are illegal, get shut down hours early, and no recourse is given for the people attending beyond "run fast and don't get arrested." I'm used to communities that claim one lifestyle, but practice another. I'm used to, for lack of a better word, bullshit. When I came to Burning Man, I officiated the drive-by wedding of a police officer and a guy in spandex. I purposefully stayed sober, despite coming to the desert with a pocket full of phil to have my Hunter S. Thompson experience. I thought I was coming to a party, and I realized I came to an experience, very very quickly. I believe in the power of desert-thing, and I don't know why, but I do know that seeing a community react so vitriolically to someone doing things oh-so-wrong has been both refreshing and tiring.

This is long-winded, and kind of going nowhere. But I just think that we're done here. JT has come out and proven he's missing the point. Larry has come out and written an essay about plants, when we were talking about dogs, in typical Larry fashion. Danger Ranger came out and did something edgy. Burnersxxx has talked about this for months now. Sherpagirl blew the case open. Reddit and Eplaya complained. We've done it. We did it. I think it's done.

Can we go back to building things, dancing on things, pranking, and being silly? I want to go back to being silly. I'm planning on building a fat-tire trike this year, somehow. Anyone else on that page of the story, now? :coffee:

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:55 am

i wonder how much caravancicle wristbands are selling for on e-bay.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by VultureChow » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:55 am

Elderberry wrote: Huh? What did Germany have to do with Pearl Harbor?
[media]
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:57 am

I tend to agree with most of the opinions expressed regarding the "explanation" provided by JT. And this sums it up nicely:
Leo wrote: After reading JT's carefully worded "non-apology", his statement could have been said in 9 words:
"I didn't do it and I won't do it again". (attributed to Louis Armstrong) Reading JT's wordy statement twice (to make sure I wasn't missing something) , I came to the following conclusions:
1. He doesn't get it.
2. He will throw anyone under the bus rather than take personal responsibility.
3. He should resign from the board to save the BMORG from any further embarrassment.
This thread could continue on ad infinitum with no tangible result. I might suggest that someone with the time, energy, inclination and writing skills, take it upon themselves to put together a petition demanding that either JT resign, or the board fires him. With enough signatures, the board might decide to act, or JT might decide to, for once, do the right thing and resign. (and don't tell me about the principle of doing it myself--radicle what-ever-it-is--I don't care that much. But I do care enough to sign it.)

The more signatures, the louder the voice. Even if nothing came of it, it would be more satisfying to know we took action rather than just venting here.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:59 am

VultureChow wrote:
Elderberry wrote: Huh? What did Germany have to do with Pearl Harbor?
Oh, pop culture. No wonder it went over my head.

Thanks for giving me a clue.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:03 am

oh, we should TOTALLY do a 5k race...
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by alt12 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:19 am

Elderberry wrote: I might suggest that someone with the time, energy, inclination and writing skills, take it upon themselves to put together a petition demanding that either JT resign, or the board fires him. With enough signatures, the board might decide to act, or JT might decide to, for once, do the right thing and resign. (and don't tell me about the principle of doing it myself--radicle what-ever-it-is--I don't care that much. But I do care enough to sign it.)

The more signatures, the louder the voice. Even if nothing came of it, it would be more satisfying to know we took action rather than just venting here.
I have to agree with this. AND this would simultaneously generate some media coverage (so far there has been none) which would add pressure to the BMORG.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:30 am

my my look at all of the jimmy come latelys.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


comrades....MONTHS ago, we at the BRCCP listed our demands and posted an online petition.


it garnered many signatures.


one of the stipulations that was removed, but, personally, i think should be re-instated is this.


besides the resignation, If JT wants to come to the playa, he must shirtcock the entire time, for the next 5 years.....thats the deal, take it or leave it... 8)
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by vargaso » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:31 am

alt12 wrote:
Elderberry wrote: I might suggest that someone with the time, energy, inclination and writing skills, take it upon themselves to put together a petition demanding that either JT resign, or the board fires him. With enough signatures, the board might decide to act, or JT might decide to, for once, do the right thing and resign. (and don't tell me about the principle of doing it myself--radicle what-ever-it-is--I don't care that much. But I do care enough to sign it.)

The more signatures, the louder the voice. Even if nothing came of it, it would be more satisfying to know we took action rather than just venting here.
I have to agree with this. AND this would simultaneously generate some media coverage (so far there has been none) which would add pressure to the BMORG.
Like this one created a couple months ago?

https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps

It's been my experience that internet petitions accomplish fuck-all. Almost as little as message board ranting, ha!

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:32 am

.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:28 am

[media]
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:53 am

vargaso wrote:
Like this one created a couple months ago?

https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps

It's been my experience that internet petitions accomplish fuck-all. Almost as little as message board ranting, ha!
Yes, which I signed BTW. But 70,000 people attend BM annually. In order for any petition to have any effect the minimum number of signatures would have to be AT LEAST 2% of the total. Get 14,000 to 20,000 signatures and I'd bet you get a reaction. Even 7,000 would give you more of a chance to make a difference.

And if you can't get that many people to agree and sign, of course the BMORG won't listen, and you might want to rethink what good any ranting or complaining would do at all. (other than illiciting disingenuous apology letters and blog posts)
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Sandstorm » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:10 pm

VultureChow wrote:...But the floodgates are opened. Our eyes are opened and the Org is learning they can't just sweep it under the rug anymore.
VultureChow: I loved your post. Separately, all the drama that's happened surrounding the event in recent years has shown me that Larry & Co. are basically incapable of learning. They're probably hoping that they can just ride this one out and that the angry Burners will forget about this mess. We won't. JT's would-be mea culpa just dropped a ton of napalm on a smoldering fire.
Ano wrote:...And it's been a blast, really. It makes me so happy, that, despite all of the criticism this event draws, despite all of the accusations of it becoming a vanilla desert rave, despite all of the assholes at Caravancicle, this community is passionate enough to have the kind of response we are having here.
Ano wrote:...I thought I was coming to a party, and I realized I came to an experience, very very quickly. I believe in the power of desert-thing, and I don't know why, but I do know that seeing a community react so vitriolically to someone doing things oh-so-wrong has been both refreshing and tiring...
Ano wrote:...Can we go back to building things, dancing on things, pranking, and being silly? I want to go back to being silly. I'm planning on building a fat-tire trike this year, somehow. Anyone else on that page of the story, now? :coffee:
Ano: Well said. So many Burners have been so justifiably angry about the ComCamp Controversy because Burning Man is MORE THAN A PARTY.

Like you, I've been worn out by this nonsense. I'm not going to forgive and I'm not going to forget. I'll still follow this story but I'm burnt out raging over this situation. It's not going to improve as long as Larry and Marian and similar minded people are running the event. The End.

Methinks that in 2015 there will be ample pranking in BRC. :)
alt12 wrote:I have to agree with this. AND this would simultaneously generate some media coverage (so far there has been none) which would add pressure to the BMORG.
alt12: It's coming.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Lonesomebri » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:21 pm

Elderberry wrote:...This thread could continue on ad infinitum with no tangible result. I might suggest that someone with the time, energy, inclination and writing skills, take it upon themselves to put together a petition demanding that either JT resign, or the board fires him. With enough signatures, the board might decide to act, or JT might decide to, for once, do the right thing and resign. (and don't tell me about the principle of doing it myself--radicle what-ever-it-is--I don't care that much. But I do care enough to sign it.)
The more signatures, the louder the voice. Even if nothing came of it, it would be more satisfying to know we took action rather than just venting here.

Lonesomebri wrote:The BRCCP recommends all loyal comrades read and sign this petition.
Sure, the org has it's form, the one all the turn-keys hype, you can fill that out and have it buried in private, but here you can have your voice heard out-loud.
https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps
Elderberry wrote:Hahahahahahahaha good luck with that. :roll:
Jeeeeezus, stick your opportunist finger in the wind and make up your befumbled mind already. There is a petition, you laughed at it and the people behind it. Now you claim to have signed it. Sure, very believable... Every turn you step in to defend the Borg until the heat gets too hot, then you act like you are the voice of moderation, one with the people. Make up your mind? And talking things over IS TANGIBLE RESULTs, unless you are incapable of thinking for yourself (clears throat), get that thru your obstinate head.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by tamarakay » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:21 pm

I would like to hear from someone who was on the receiving end of one of those petitions and whether or not it made a difference in their decision process.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by VultureChow » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:49 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
Jeeeeezus, stick your opportunist finger in the wind and make up your befumbled mind already. There is a petition, you laughed at it and the people behind it. Now you claim to have signed it. Sure, very believable... Every turn you step in to defend the Borg until the heat gets too hot, then you act like you are the voice of moderation, one with the people. Make up your mind? And talking things over IS TANGIBLE RESULTs, unless you are incapable of thinking for yourself (clears throat), get that thru your obstinate head.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:33 pm

Too little too late Mr. Jim.

The lack of accountability isn't exactly shocking.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:14 pm

The lack of shock and outrage from the Burner community to this not-so-shocking apology isn't exactly shocking either...

This scandal has been going on for months now. It's obvious to just about all that there is corruption in the leadership of the self-appointed "stewards" of our "global community".

A petition won't change shit. It's obvious the corruption is here to stay. Hello apathy, my old friend.

Burning man is officially sold out.

It's like Metallica, they're proud sell-outs. It became about the money and not the music. But I still pay to go see them when they play nearby. It's fun. It resembles what it once was. They play the songs they wrote 25 years ago when it was about the music, but deep down I know it's not the same.

Like Burning Man, we can play the same songs this year in the dessert, but once you know it's there it's just not the same.

Kind of like cancer.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:51 pm

Elderberry wrote:
vargaso wrote:
Like this one created a couple months ago?

https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps

It's been my experience that internet petitions accomplish fuck-all. Almost as little as message board ranting, ha!
Yes, which I signed BTW. But 70,000 people attend BM annually. In order for any petition to have any effect the minimum number of signatures would have to be AT LEAST 2% of the total. Get 14,000 to 20,000 signatures and I'd bet you get a reaction. Even 7,000 would give you more of a chance to make a difference.

And if you can't get that many people to agree and sign, of course the BMORG won't listen, and you might want to rethink what good any ranting or complaining would do at all. (other than illiciting disingenuous apology letters and blog posts)
2% of 70,000 is 1400, not 14,000.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Finnegan » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:53 pm

Okay, sure. But the point is, things are hard to do, and we shouldn't even try.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Ratty » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:20 pm

High maths.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Sandstorm » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:26 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:The lack of shock and outrage from the Burner community to this not-so-shocking apology isn't exactly shocking either...
Have you not been reading the comments sections to the recent ComCamp related blog entries on the BM site? There's been enough outrage to burn down half of a dozen oversized effigies. :D

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:59 pm

FIGJAM wrote:
Elderberry wrote:
vargaso wrote:
Like this one created a couple months ago?

https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps

It's been my experience that internet petitions accomplish fuck-all. Almost as little as message board ranting, ha!
Yes, which I signed BTW. But 70,000 people attend BM annually. In order for any petition to have any effect the minimum number of signatures would have to be AT LEAST 2% of the total. Get 14,000 to 20,000 signatures and I'd bet you get a reaction. Even 7,000 would give you more of a chance to make a difference.

And if you can't get that many people to agree and sign, of course the BMORG won't listen, and you might want to rethink what good any ranting or complaining would do at all. (other than illiciting disingenuous apology letters and blog posts)
2% of 70,000 is 1400, not 14,000.
I know, but that just sounded like it wouldn't be enough. I came up with that 2% figure from some article I was reading on the number of people that need to be active to push through any social change in society as a whole. 10% sounded better to me at the time of that writing.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:02 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
Elderberry wrote:...This thread could continue on ad infinitum with no tangible result. I might suggest that someone with the time, energy, inclination and writing skills, take it upon themselves to put together a petition demanding that either JT resign, or the board fires him. With enough signatures, the board might decide to act, or JT might decide to, for once, do the right thing and resign. (and don't tell me about the principle of doing it myself--radicle what-ever-it-is--I don't care that much. But I do care enough to sign it.)
The more signatures, the louder the voice. Even if nothing came of it, it would be more satisfying to know we took action rather than just venting here.

Lonesomebri wrote:The BRCCP recommends all loyal comrades read and sign this petition.
Sure, the org has it's form, the one all the turn-keys hype, you can fill that out and have it buried in private, but here you can have your voice heard out-loud.
https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps
Elderberry wrote:Hahahahahahahaha good luck with that. :roll:
Jeeeeezus, stick your opportunist finger in the wind and make up your befumbled mind already. There is a petition, you laughed at it and the people behind it. Now you claim to have signed it. Sure, very believable... Every turn you step in to defend the Borg until the heat gets too hot, then you act like you are the voice of moderation, one with the people. Make up your mind? And talking things over IS TANGIBLE RESULTs, unless you are incapable of thinking for yourself (clears throat), get that thru your obstinate head.
Hey, I'm entitled to be as damn fickle as I choose to be. You wouldn't be having near as much fun if you didn't have me to pick on. (I signed that petition, btw.)
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by ranger magnum » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:22 pm

And why do we care about any of this?

My burn wasn't negatively affected in any way by any camp, plug and play or otherwise. The org runs their business their way. I run my business my way. The don't tell me how to run mine, I won't tell them how to run theirs.

If I decide I do not like how they run their business, I will do one of two things:

1) start my own festival

2) stop going

It's really that simple.
Praise the Lowered

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Sandstorm
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Sandstorm » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:25 pm

FIGJAM wrote:2% of 70,000 is 1400, not 14,000.
Your post made me realize that 70,000 is the wrong number to look at here. Via the BRC census we know that roughly 40% of BM attendees in a given year are newbies. That means that the number we should be looking at it between 35,000 and 40,000. A petition that's signed by 2,000 people would represent roughly 5% of the population of Burners who might/would know enough about the event to give a sh*t about the commodification of the event.

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Finnegan
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Finnegan » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:47 pm

My drive home was not negatively affected by police brutality. I did not get shot and killed for no reason. So I don't see how this issue is at all important. Party on, Garth!
"No one is innocent, citizen. We are merely here to determine the level of your guilt."
- Judge Dredd

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