A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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digital
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby digital » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:50 pm

ranger magnum wrote:And why do we care about any of this?

Simply put, some people seem to get a sense of belonging discussing the issue ad infinitum -- on ePlaya, the BM blog, xxxme, etc. Our friend SS above is the perfect example. Suddenly they are part of something and find validation in the delusion. BM is a fun party in the desert... Not some new world order! It's not home! It's not sustainable! It's been commodified for many years! Anyone working behind the scenes knows this.

I really wish they would either move on and enjoy the event or find something else to do with their time. Instead they would rather beat the horse into a liquid purée. On and on and on and on and on and on and on..... Jesus f'n Christ already. Move on!

It's really that simple.
Last edited by digital on Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Finnegan » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:55 pm

Enjoy your rave!
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby digital » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:56 pm

Reality check, people. Reality check.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Elderberry » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:21 pm

That is not a popular thing to have said around here. And I totally agree.

ranger magnum wrote:And why do we care about any of this?

My burn wasn't negatively affected in any way by any camp, plug and play or otherwise. The org runs their business their way. I run my business my way. The don't tell me how to run mine, I won't tell them how to run theirs.

If I decide I do not like how they run their business, I will do one of two things:

1) start my own festival

2) stop going

It's really that simple.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Eric » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:58 am

digital wrote:I really wish they would either move on and enjoy the event or find something else to do with their time. Instead they would rather beat the horse into a liquid purée. On and on and on and on and on and on and on..... Jesus f'n Christ already. Move on!

It's really that simple.


See, I actually disagree here. I've got no problem with people centering their lives on this, I only worry when the circle of "problems" expands to include anything about the Burn they don't like ("they", in this case, could be people on here, definitely on b.meh, on fb, etc). Like I've said in other posts, if people want to dig for "the truth", let them have at - as long as they stay within the bounds of the ToS here, I don't care. Who am I to tell them not to do something that brings them joy, or makes them feel like they have a chance to change something? I don't have to agree with everything they say, and I don't have to pretend to agree, but it doesn't hurt me to let them say it. When I disagree, I'll say so. I'll do the same when I agree with anyone.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:32 am

What eric said.

Also, A-Rock, if you have been around as long as i have you would know that burning man sold out in 1997, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2007, 2010 and now.

Read the back issues of piss clear.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Aurelia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:53 am

Ranger Magnum !

Perfectly stated without the verbosity of Ss, or new tinge of self- righteousness of Eb .


Thank you for independent personal clarity shift.

xoA.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby vargaso » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:16 am

digital wrote:
ranger magnum wrote:And why do we care about any of this?

Simply put, some people seem to get a sense of belonging discussing the issue ad infinitum -- on ePlaya, the BM blog, xxxme, etc. Our friend SS above is the perfect example. Suddenly they are part of something and find validation in the delusion. BM is a fun party in the desert... Not some new world order! It's not home! It's not sustainable! It's been commodified for many years! Anyone working behind the scenes knows this.

I really wish they would either move on and enjoy the event or find something else to do with their time. Instead they would rather beat the horse into a liquid purée. On and on and on and on and on and on and on..... Jesus f'n Christ already. Move on!

It's really that simple.


That's your take. Mine is that much of the fun and meaning of going to Burning Man, for me, was that this gathering was somewhat unique in that there was no VIP experience to be bought, there was no standing around staring at millionaires on a stage while dying just a little. That the people camping next to you could be literally anyone from any possible socio-economic background, and that everyone mingled freely. With all the recent controversy, that feeling is getting harder to maintain. Sure, if I end up going next year, it'll be an awesome, fun time. But it won't be as meaningful, for me.

It's really that simple. Not sure why some people can't understand that. Not to say that you must feel the same way, but it shouldn't be that difficult to understand that Burning Man means a helluva a lot more than a party in the desert to a lot of people.

Although I agree with you that Burning Man is not some kind of new world order, and that it absolutely, in it's actual playa form, is not sustainable 24/7. And THAT fact, I think, is what is now lost on Larry & Co. as they try to expand their vision with the ridiculous Burning Man Project, all the while selling out what made the TEMPORARY Autonomous Zone out in the desert so awesome. Nobody but the BMORG gives a shit about the Burning Man Project. The event is what the whole fucking point is. It’s a spiritual/emotional recharge for those of us who make it out there, and gives us energy and clarity to then go out into the world and do whatever good it is that we come up with. THAT is all we need of spreading “Burning Man culture”. For fuck’s sake.
Last edited by vargaso on Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby tatonka » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:22 am

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby forty_eight » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:59 am

it does cut both ways - this idea that the event has long since sold out and that people putting up velvet ropes doesn't affect other's burns.

what "culture" is there to spread then?

maybe it's our own fault for having "expectations" of what the burn is or means, but i understand the feelings of disappointment when the curtain is pulled back to reveal that the event isn't what people might have thought it was. they invested in the event based on what they understood the meaning to be, and it hurts to see that those "principles" might not be some sort of bedrock that really could impact the world outside TTITD.

the thing that actually really baffles me is that this member of the board of directors doesn't seem to have the self awareness to pull himself off the board. intentionally or not, he alienated a large portion of the community, so it just seems like he would recognize that he isn't in a position to represent the values of that same community, no matter how impactful the event and its principles may have been for him personally.

it makes me wonder what motivates his desire to continue as a member of the board.

there has been this informal vote of no confidence in his leadership. by what amplitude of cognitive dissonance does he perceive a useful role for himself as a leader of a community of which a large part believes he is out of touch with and unfit to represent?

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby VultureChow » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:58 am

forty_eight wrote:
it makes me wonder what motivates his desire to continue as a member of the board.

there has been this informal vote of no confidence in his leadership. by what amplitude of cognitive dissonance does he perceive a useful role for himself as a leader of a community of which a large part believes he is out of touch with and unfit to represent?


Because the average burner is not part of "his community." His friends in Caravancicle and First Camp are. It's one of the reasons that so many have tried to spin this into a tale of class envy. If he and his friends can convince themselves that we're all just jealous, then it's our problem, not their's.

Furthermore, with no signs that 2015 will be anything but another sell-out, there is no financial incentive to remove him from the board. No stock price, no loss of revenue, no meaningful outside pressure.

This late into the scandal, even if he resigns, it will be seen as the board caving to pressure and forcing a resignation. And to them, caving to the whims of burners is more dangerous than the perception of compromised ethics. If they give in on this issue, what will the next one be?
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:41 pm

forty_eight wrote:
maybe it's our own fault for having "expectations" of what the burn is or means, but i understand the feelings of disappointment when the curtain is pulled back to reveal that the event isn't what people might have thought it was. they invested in the event based on what they understood the meaning to be, and it hurts to see that those "principles" might not be some sort of bedrock that really could impact the world outside TTITD.



^This.


SotP: Good lord, had I been around as long as you I wouldn't still be here today... I know the event has 'sold out' every couple of years for about as long as its been around, but this kerfluffle was the pulling of the curtain for me.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Lonesomebri » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:46 pm

I just wish that, as a start, all the folks commenting their feelings on this issue stating that everyone else commenting their feelings on this issue should stop, would take their own advise.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Finnegan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:47 pm

Stop caring about something I don't care about!!
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Lonesomebri » Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:56 pm

Of course, not having any real feelings for things that are important to you in your life is one way of going about it....
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby digital » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:11 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:I just wish that, as a start, all the folks commenting their feelings on this issue stating that everyone else commenting their feelings on this issue should stop, would take their own advise.

Lonesomebri wrote:Of course, not having any real feelings for things that are important to you in your life is one way of going about it....

A poster commenting their feelings that all the folks commenting their feelings on this issue stating that everyone else commenting their feelings on this issue should stop, and take their own advice...

My head just spun three complete rotations.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby maladroit » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:28 pm

Let's all drive hundreds/thousands of miles to an inhospitable desert to have the same pre-processed corporate experience we can get at home.

It's an old ship, and we're getting some leaks. You can dance on the deck until it sinks, or you can get below and start plugging leaks and pumping the bilge.

Is it really not worthwhile to defend the parts of Burning Man that make it different from the default?

See you at the food court.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby unjonharley » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:31 pm

You drama queen are sure giving this guy his 15 in the spot light..

How about shunning the unclean?
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Sandstorm » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:51 pm

digital wrote:
ranger magnum wrote:And why do we care about any of this?

Simply put, some people seem to get a sense of belonging discussing the issue ad infinitum...


digital: Lonesomebri did a wonderful job of summing my take on your SOP about this subject.

Lonesomebri wrote:I just wish that, as a start, all the folks commenting their feelings on this issue stating that everyone else commenting their feelings on this issue should stop, would take their own advise.


On eplaya I've never stopped to any kind of ad hominem attacks on you or Simon or Eric. At this point anything that I say is pointless to you, even if I say that the ComCamp Controversy has burnt me out and I'm done caring about the event. You are one of a core group of people in here who attack others and then when confronted about your behavior respond with memes and/or avoidant behavior. At this point I could care less about eplaya or you or Burning Man. I've been burnt out by Larry & Co.'s endless incompetence. I've been burnt out by watching something I love be undermined by the people who are meant to run and protect it. I'm burnt out by having to write my way through my emotions about the ComCamp Controversy. I'm burnt out by people such as yourself as act like bullies and trolls. Congratulations on your fine work. :)

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby digital » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Sandstorm wrote:digital: Lonesomebri did a wonderful job of summing my take on your SOP about this subject.

Lonesomebri doesn't need to sum it up, you've practically written a book on the subject! :D

(Not to mention the hardon you get affirming practically every fuckin' post on the BM blog matching yours!)

Dude, we get your feelings on the matter. Really, we do.

Now go outside, get a drink, a girl (boy?) and some air....

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Sandstorm » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:04 pm

digital wrote:...Dude, we get your feelings on the matter. Really, we do.


I'm curious: why do you enjoy repeatedly attacking someone who's never attacked you or slandered you?

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby digital » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:19 pm

Sandstorm wrote:I'm curious: why do you enjoy repeatedly attacking someone who's never attacked you or slandered you?

First, slander implies a falsehood.

Second, because I work my ass off putting on the show and the continued bitching, mainly from you, gives me nausea. I hate nausea ( and whining ). There are a ton of good people putting on a show for you and to bitch about the missteps of a few at the top, ad infinitum, shows that you are putting way too much value on a fun week-long party in the desert. You are taking it way too seriously.

TL;DR: BM should be fun! If it's not, move on!

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Finnegan » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:21 pm

Continue to stop caring about things I don't care about! Thread gives you nausea? Stop reading it.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby vargaso » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:30 pm

digital wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:I'm curious: why do you enjoy repeatedly attacking someone who's never attacked you or slandered you?

First, slander implies a falsehood.

Second, because I work my ass off putting on the show and the continued bitching, mainly from you, gives me nausea. I hate nausea ( and whining ). There are a ton of good people putting on a show for you and to bitch about the missteps of a few at the top, ad infinitum, shows that you are putting way too much value on a fun week-long party in the desert. You are taking it way too seriously.

TL;DR: BM should be fun! If it's not, move on!


Sandstorm, I'm with you, but at this point, I gotta agree with digital here. You've said "you're done" with Burning Man in about 20 posts now. Might be time to walk the walk (away). Also, the use of the word "attack" is problematic. This is a message board on the internets. Unless someone is messing with your offline life or defaming your reputation and character to an extent that it harms your offline life, then no one is "attacking" you. They're either disagreeing with you or making fun of you, both fully legitimate endeavors for message boards on the internets. I say this with love.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Sandstorm » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:31 pm

digital wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:I'm curious: why do you enjoy repeatedly attacking someone who's never attacked you or slandered you?

First, slander implies a falsehood.

Second, because I work my ass off putting on the show and the continued bitching, mainly from you, gives me nausea. I hate nausea ( and whining ). There are a ton of good people putting on a show for you and to bitch about the missteps of a few at the top, ad infinitum, shows that you are putting way too much value on a fun week-long party in the desert. You are taking it way too seriously.

TL;DR: BM should be fun! If it's not, move on!


RE: you giving me sh*t about my comments over on the BM blog: I haven't posted on there since sometime yesterday afternoon. The comments that are showing up at the end of that thread are there because of some error with the site. Those posts are date stamped on 12/18/14 but are showing up AFTER posts that were made subsequent to when I made those comments.

Re: me posting ad infinitum about this matter, for weeks now I've been having nothing more than basic, normal conversations with other people on here. The End. You're the one placing attention on me and talking sh*t about me me when I'm just casually using the board.

I don't get you. I really don't. You're talking all kinds of sh*t about me even when I'm not talking to you or making long posts in here. It's sad to see that you get a kick out of going out of your way to attack another Burner who's never attacked or slandered or misrepresented your actions.

You'll always find a way to spin this as being my fault and you being blameless and oppressed.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Sandstorm » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:43 pm

vargaso wrote:Sandstorm, I'm with you, but at this point, I gotta agree with digital here. You've said "you're done" with Burning Man in about 20 posts now. Might be time to walk the walk (away). Also, the use of the word "attack" is problematic. This is a message board on the internets. Unless someone is messing with your offline life or defaming your reputation and character to an extent that it harms your offline life, then no one is "attacking" you. They're either disagreeing with you or making fun of you, both fully legitimate endeavors for message boards on the internets. I say this with love.


Vargasso: I'm sincerely disappointed to read your post. I've enjoyed and your posts and your opinions. If you think that I haven't been recently attacked in here then you clearly actually haven't read the posts in which I was in fact attacked. I've repeatedly had people on here PMing about the grief that 3 specific people have recently given me in here.

Most of my recent posts in here have been low key responses to other people's posts in here. The end. I actually only started posting in here again the other day because I decided to to support another Burner who had started a thread in which they voiced their concerns about their direction of the event. My doing so got me attacked by a mod who subsequently went MIA when I very clearly called them out for assigning me to a mob to which I've never belonged.

I spend plenty of time over in the FB BM groups and thus I'm used to snark and fun and disagreements. I can snark with the best of them. When I say that I was attacked it was because I was, not because I'm feeling butthurt.

If you want to see what the content of my recent posts in here have been like then take the time to go back through them via my profile. You're assigning posting patterns to me that don't actually exist.

I'm sorry to see you enabling the BS that's recently been sent my way in here.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Aurelia » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:47 pm

Just GO AWAY !

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby digital » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:51 pm

BURNING MAN
IS
COMMODIFIED!


I'll repeat,

BURNING MAN
IS
COMMODIFIED!


It's true. It's been true. It's their business to run the business the way they (the BOD) see fit. Like it or not. The sooner you accept this fact and choose to either (a) enjoy what's left or (b) walk away the sooner we all can move on.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Sandstorm » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:15 pm

To those you are enjoying ganging up on me I thought that I'd share this with you.

Last week I wrote this on my FB profile.

Even if I don't make it back to Burning Man next year or ever again I look forward to helping some yet unknown person make it to BM next year. Although I've been burnt out by the ComCamp Controversy I love BRC and the people who make it a reality and I know that there is someone out there who can use some BRC magic in their life. Even though I'm emotionally moving away from the event I still believe in the Burner Spirit and it would make me feel good to help someone make it to BRC next year. :)


These are some PMs that I sent to a fellow Burner the other day. They illustrate the character of the person who you are attacking:

I'm hoping that they do the pre-sale because I want to gift some folks some tickets.

As pissed as I've been at Larry & Co. I want to go one last time.

If I've got the money I don't give a fuck about paying the extra dough. Honestly, I just want to get some tickets and treat some folks to BM tix.


Have fun attacking the next good hearted burner who wanders into this toxic clusterf*ck.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Postby Elderberry » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:39 pm

Can someone please explain to me the difference between Sandstorm's posts and those of Lonesomebri?
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