A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

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unjonharley
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by unjonharley » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:42 pm

Elderberry wrote:Can someone please explain to me the difference between Sandstorm's posts and those of Lonesomebri?
They are pretty much the same troll.. I have one plonked so only have to read once..
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Ratty » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:48 pm

Ha. Great idea. Thanks Unjohn.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:12 pm

Elderberry wrote:Can someone please explain to me the difference between Sandstorm's posts and those of Lonesomebri?
Elderberry: I've become the popular whipping boy for a group of people in here who see what they want to see. There's literally nothing that I can post that will pass their litmus test. The ways in which I've been attacked in here over the past 2 weeks are illogical and pathetic. I've been painted as being this that, that and the other thing. I've been accused of saying this, that and the other thing when I'm just having the most basic and minimal of interactions with other people on the board. When I get attacked I call people out on their actions and I end up receiving a response based on one or more of the following modes of behavior:

avoidance / deflection / negation / denigration

Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's sad to be attacked by other burners but it doesn't matter because in the end I'm not going to lose sleep over trolls, bullies and asshats.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by ranger magnum » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:56 pm

Sandstorm wrote:
Elderberry wrote:Can someone please explain to me the difference between Sandstorm's posts and those of Lonesomebri?
Elderberry: I've become the popular whipping boy for a group of people in here who see what they want to see. There's literally nothing that I can post that will pass their litmus test. The ways in which I've been attacked in here over the past 2 weeks are illogical and pathetic. I've been painted as being this that, that and the other thing. I've been accused of saying this, that and the other thing when I'm just having the most basic and minimal of interactions with other people on the board. When I get attacked I call people out on their actions and I end up receiving a response based on one or more of the following modes of behavior:

avoidance / deflection / negation / denigration

Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's sad to be attacked by other burners but it doesn't matter because in the end I'm not going to lose sleep over trolls, bullies and asshats.
But you're losing sleep over the org; people who have done nothing to you, other than challenge your opinion of what's right or wrong within the Larry & Co machine. Your willing to focus on one small negative occurrence on Playa that im guessing had no negative impact on your burn at the time, and let that prevent you from attending the event. An event you enjoy.

You mean to tell me you can't think of anything wonderful you saw on Playa that can negate your bitterness towards one camp?

I feel bad for you about that.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Sandstorm » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:43 pm

ranger magnum wrote:But you're losing sleep over the org...
You clearly haven't actually read my recent posts. The tenor, length and frequency of my ComCamp Controversy related posts have declined in recent weeks. The weird thing is that it was during that time that a few people chose to attack me.
ranger magnum wrote:people who have done nothing to you, other than challenge your opinion of what's right or wrong within the Larry & Co machine.
No, that's not true. A few people have actually gone out of their way to be asshats to me. That's not my imagination. I've recently repeatedly had people on here PM to offer me support for the fact that a few of the people on here have been dicks to me over the past 2+ weeks.

No matter what I write on here there's a select group of people who spin my posts as they see fit. When I call them on their BS they never address the fact that their being bullies and trolls.

Nowadays I'm spending more time on here responding to posts like yours than I am writing about or to anyone else. It's tiresome and pathetic.

There literally is NOTHING I can say to satisfy the people around here who want to spin me as being some dude standing on a soap box with a megaphone.

I wrote the below post in this thread earlier tonight and you still had to tell me that I'm on some vendetta about the ComCamps. I'm tired of the selective eyesight that some of the folks around here have. At this point my passion for the event is being tarnished more so by posts like yours and less so by Larry & Co.
To those you are enjoying ganging up on me I thought that I'd share this with you.

Last week I wrote this on my FB profile.
Even if I don't make it back to Burning Man next year or ever again I look forward to helping some yet unknown person make it to BM next year. Although I've been burnt out by the ComCamp Controversy I love BRC and the people who make it a reality and I know that there is someone out there who can use some BRC magic in their life. Even though I'm emotionally moving away from the event I still believe in the Burner Spirit and it would make me feel good to help someone make it to BRC next year. :)

These are some PMs that I sent to a fellow Burner the other day. They illustrate the character of the person who you are attacking:
I'm hoping that they do the pre-sale because I want to gift some folks some tickets.
As pissed as I've been at Larry & Co. I want to go one last time.
If I've got the money I don't give a fuck about paying the extra dough. Honestly, I just want to get some tickets and treat some folks to BM tix.
Have fun attacking the next good hearted burner who wanders into this toxic clusterf*ck.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by GreyCoyote » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:07 am

The worst thing that came out of the SherpaGate and CommoCamp debacles is the degree of division and animosity in the Burner community. If you want to see the true and enduring harm, look no further than this page.

The best thing that came out of it was the temporary unity, however brief, and the now certain knowledge that the BMORG leadership has.... a few... "issues".

The 2015 burn is gonna be a doozy. :roll:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:35 am

The 2015 burn is gonna be a doozy.

yes, the Angry Mob Fun Run and Pitchfork Toss is gonna be a hoot.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by ranger magnum » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:33 am

Sounds to me like you are seeking some sort of affirmation. On several occasions you mentioned what good "character" you have by your intentions of giving away tickets.

I am always amused by people boasting about stuff they're *going* to do......

Kinda like when guys tell me they are building a blown 502 crate motor, and it's *going* put out 1500 HP...

Your intentions are admirable.

But they are just that: intentions.

You haven't gifted anything yet.

The sign of a person with character is someone who does something quite generous (like giving away tickets to use your example) and *doesn't* post about it on all sorts of forums. Especially before they even do it!
Last edited by ranger magnum on Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Aurelia » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:44 am

You give him the hug , oh saintly one

I give YOU the hug

xoA.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:33 am

ranger magnum wrote: I am always amused by people boasting about stuff they're *going* to do......
Hang on you guys, I'm going to go to the bathroom
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:34 am

flattery.jpg
Simon of the Playa wrote:just my humble opinion.

but...if it was my camp, i would issue this apology....




"I fucked up. I take Responsibility. I apologize profoundly and will work to see it never happens again."


maybe that's just me, but i prefer to wear man pants.


call me old fashioned...
hmmm, first my poster-memes and now my "words"...from THAT site...

if i didnt know any better, i would say someone has a man-crush on me....SO cute....

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by katy potaty » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:06 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
if i didnt know any better, i would say someone has a man-crush on me....SO cute....
Who doesn't have a crush on you Simon?! :wink:
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Sandstorm » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:53 pm

ranger magnum wrote:...You haven't gifted anything yet...
Really? Nice try. You clearly actually don't know anything about me.

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=72736&p=1051412#p1051412
I hope that this finds you well. I've taken some time to thoughtfully respond to your fundraising email regarding my potentially donating to the Burning Man Project. As a point of reference, I've known about Burning Man since late 1996 and it's been a huge part of my life over the past 7 plus years. I've been burning since '07 and I've been to Black Rock City 6 times in total. Since I've started burning the only 2 burns that I've missed were in '09 and '14, the former by choice and the latter due to my being unable to make the trip.

During each of my burns I've volunteered my time to groups such as The Lamplighters, Arctica, Center Camp Cafe, The Temple Guardians and a variety of theme camps and art projects. During that time I've made numerous monetary donations to groups such as Black Rock Arts Foundations and Black Rock Solar as well as to individual art projects and the 2013 Temple build. During my time as a burner I've repeatedly sold to other people Burning Man tickets that I did not need or could not use and when I did so I sold those tickets at below face value. On 4 occasions I've gifted Burning Man tickets to other people. In 2013 I helped half a dozen people I didn't know acquire the Burning Man tickets they needed and I did so free of charge. I did that because Burning Man meant so much to me and I wanted to use my time and contacts to help other people make it HOME to Black Rock City.
What follows goes out to the positive and welcoming people on this board. :)

I want to extend my sincere thanks to all the folks on eplaya who in recent months have been kind and friendly to me in the open forums and via PM. I was sadly unable to make it HOME this year due to financial reasons. When I was looking for a miracle ticket just before this year's burn some of you spontaneously offered to send me money or actually sent me funds, funds which I returned to you after I had to put my would-be burn to sleep. The kindness and generosity that you showed me back then reminded me of why I LOVE Burning Man and the Burner community so much. On a similar note, there's been a bunch of people who have reached out to me in the open forums and/or via PM in the aftermath of SHERPAGATE. Again, it's been really moving and life affirming to have people spontaneously reach out to me and say kind things to me about some of the posts that I've written about the ComCamp Controversy. It's particularly nice that that happened at a time when a small group of people on here have made it their mission to attack me and enable one another's bullsh*t.

This is the last post that I'll be making on here until at least January 2016. If I post here in 2015 it will only be to offer up a BM ticket in case I have one to pass along to a Burner in need. In certain ways this place has become a toxic sh*thole. There's a handful of rude and nasty people on here who would prefer to have a pyrrhic victory over me than to just take a step back from their keyboard and acknowledge that they're going out of their way to attack someone who's never painted them as being drinkers of Larry's KOOL AID or stopped to ad hominem attacks on their character.

The ironic thing about the ComCamp Controversy and the attacks that I've recently experienced on this board is that it's re-calibrated my relationship with Burning Man and reminded me of why I LOVE Burning Man so much. The countless positive conversations that I've had on here and on FB since SHERPAGATE blew up have far outweighed and outnumbered the lesser experiences that I've had on here. Burners tend to be incredibly smart and observant people and their intelligence, empathy and compassion never ceases to amaze and inspire me.

I wish all of you Happy Holidays for you and yours. I hope that 2015 is a spectacular year for all of you. I wish you peace, joy, wellness and if need be, the deepest healing possible. If going HOME in 2015 is something you want and/or need then I hope that that desire is met. No matter what I may think of Larry & Co.'s handling of the event I hope to go HOME in 2015 so that I can say hello to many of the wonderful Burners I've met online in 2014 and to say goodbye to BRC. Only time will tell if I'll have the chance to do so.

If any of you want to write me please feel free to PM on here. I'll still be visiting eplaya to check my PMs.

Dusty hugs and lots of love,

Sandstorm

P.S.

Here's a brilliant track for you to shake your rump to, :)

"Never Say Never" by Basement Jaxx feat. ETML

http://youtu.be/PLFnpQrAi9c

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Lonesomebri » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:32 pm

unjonharley wrote:
Elderberry wrote:Can someone please explain to me the difference between Sandstorm's posts and those of Lonesomebri?
They are pretty much the same troll.. I have one plonked so only have to read once..
Can someone tell me the difference between oldjohn and Ratty and Elderberry and JT, I know one likes eating baloney sandwiches anther likes p&j, and one likes eating the crap the other serves......
Some folks just don't have the mental capacity to read others opinions without blowing some sort of gasket. See, SS and i are different people with different styles and opinions, but, yeah, pretty much beyond trolling about sandwiches and the weather like the class acts. So I can understand the grumpsters not being interested. Carry on.

Here we have folks more upset with us calling out the commercial camps than they are at the commercial camps. And there you have it.

Yay, we got rid of that scourge on the Burner community, Sandstorm, but we get to keep digital, unjohn, Ratty, and Elderberry's buddy JT. Thanks guys!!!!! Good work.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Lonesomebri » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:48 pm

First Camp is going to have to get out the big spread in 2015 for the guests who have earned their position at the table so obediently. I like how digital finally admitted his job by pointing out that everyone else has to stop complaining about the commercialization of the playa before he can continue his important task we owe him thanks for. Unlike Sandstorm, I think I may stick around to BURN all year round.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by forty_eight » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:38 pm

It may not have affected your burn this year, but the org must've seen long term risks since they decided to make the changes already announced.

It's not like nothing came of any of this. The issues may not be your issues, but there were (and are) obviously issues.

The 'get over it crowd' come off as complacent ostriches.

Not everyone has to protest and picket but to scoff at those inclined to do so puzzles me.

Plus, the internetz!

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Ratty » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:10 am

if i didn't know any better, i would say someone has a man-crush on me....SO cute....
Simon, 'I've never met you but I can see why someone would have a crush on you. Your avatar is unusually handsome'. A bit chameleon at times.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by TomServo » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:09 am

Never trust anyone who refers to campmates as "STAFF."
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:16 am

Image
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:09 am

turn that frown upside down.


seriously.


SS, sorry that you feel under attack, but really, think about this....if you offer up strong opinions, expect a pushback, and counter opinions.

IE....can't stand the heat, stay the fuck out of the kitchen.

This is the Kitchen.

we argue, we cajole, we rant, we rave, but at the end of the day, we are all burners, and i bear no ill will towards you personally.

maybe some of your arguments, and the manner in which you present them, but that is ok...we all have the right to our opinions, and we all have the right to voice them, and debate them.

you don't like what i say, so be it....thats ok too...

it's all good.

my suggestion is this......step back......breathe.....don't take this so seriously, even though it is a serious matter.

and don't take things personally, this is the internet for god's sake.

and thank you, yes, thank you for all you have done...the volunteering, the gifting, the hard work....i KNOW that you CARE...it's obvious you care deeply.

thank you for your voice...all voices are important, but realize that in the great cacophony of sound that emerges from the playa, none is more important, or less valid than others.

everything burns.

and this too shall pass...

I am not as big an asshole as i play on TV, and i am sure that if you and i were to sit down in the dust and share a moment or two, we would become friends.

in september...i was livid....i swore i would never return to the playa, or e-playa etc etc etc....i was wrong....i let my emotions cloud my judgment...

people make mistakes, people try to fix them, and we all try to move forward, the only true direction of things.

i hope that things change between now and august as far as your feelings toward YOUR community...we'll still be here...doing the same old fucko shit we do every year....

and again, i am truly sorry if you feel that other members of the board expressing displeasure with your posts makes you upset....if you put it out there, expect that...it's just the way it is....so what?

jump right in and give it back...

if you shovel shit, you have to learn to take it too.

lord knows, i am covered in it some days.... :twisted:





anyway, Peace to you, and Happy Holidays and may the Days grow longer from here on out... 8)
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Elderberry » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:32 am

Lonesomebri wrote:Unlike Sandstorm, I think I may stick around to BURN all year round.
How unfortunate for the rest of us.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:48 am

jesus christ EB...



you two should just get a fucking room already...



let lonesomebri fuck you in the ass, and this will all be over...


then you can go antiquing together...
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Elderberry » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:54 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:jesus christ EB...



you two should just get a fucking room already...



let lonesomebri fuck you in the ass, and this will all be over...


then you can go antiquing together...
Simon, first let me compliment you on your post to Sandstorm. I'm sure he will appreciate it.

Regarding Lonesomebri, I've tried all that I can try to make nice with that man, to no avail. If he wants to keep poking, I'm going to keep poking back. Petty? Maybe, but I'm certainly not trying to get into heaven, so I don't much care.

(and even if we did have a truce, he ain't fucking me in the ass, though antique shopping would be ok)
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:56 am

it's all about "poking"....

though antique shopping would be ok


see? we have the basis for civil discourse.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:16 am

We have some great contributors to ePlaya. It is a lot friendlier than past years. It's greatest challenge is to draw new participants, which is the challenge of the event itself. ePlaya is the Internet, so some snarkiness is expected and we hope it can be parried with more grace than offered, and a little laughter.

What we are discussing is a serious issue and it is playing out in the world at large. My thinking has evolved through these discussions and even so, I do not have a clear answer.

It is true and always will be true that the internal operations of the various BM boards and staff discussions are closed. They have information we do not and never will have and they make decisions on it. I would guess that most of it is very boring. I doubt they make perfect decisions. But they bring years of experience dealing with that minutia.

It is the modus of the media to seek and sensationalize drama. A favorite tactic is to present something dramatic, sometimes on the flimsiest of facts, then claim news that "we contacted them for comment and never heard anything". Other 'burner news" outlets are in that mold, IMO.

We are playing the describing the elephant game, with too few facts.

With the offending camp, we heard it was a giant plot by the board, yet some report the organizer joined the board a few weeks before the event. Claim of 50 sherpas, but 3 listed on the camp roster. 120 campers paying $17K, check that with the roster. Claims of moop and non-moop, there should be photos. Frankly I'm more concerned on how the growth and participant acculturation of the 10-20 other similar camps who did not F-up will affect the event culture in the future. I think the new rules, an anonymous event and social pressure are good steps.

I don't know JT. I agree his explanation is shabby. The fact the camp attracted attention in a bad way is its failure. I think we expect the founders to be omniscient and speak like sages. They are not and don't. Personally I am not opposed to rich people attending. It has certainly had a positive impact on the tech and creative industries. I think the greatest challenge to the event is remaining relevant to new chronological generations and international culture. I think the BORG needs to look for, measure, and tell the stories of world changing.

How the event and culture represents decommodification in a mercantile world is a good discussion. I have suggested that no camp or village publicize their dues in any way. But I would like to see artists benefit more.

Finally, there will be a long term shortage of tickets. A few hundred or a thousand or two golden tickets are not going to affect that. But I am not going to be the lone ticketing genius. I do not fall into the camp that it is all about August in Nevada and "F any BMORG expenditures beyond that because me". But that sentiment exists.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:33 am

some seeing eye, you just played the "grace" card.


well done.


excellent points, excellent post.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Aurelia » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:39 am

Whew !

Kudos to you .
or Southerncrones eggnog

xoA.

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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by Roundabout » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:05 am

Elderberry wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:Unlike Sandstorm, I think I may stick around to BURN all year round.
How unfortunate for the rest of us.
Elderberry, this is not a Moderator's personal opinion. It is a personal attack by a moderator. It creates dysfunction on the board, if Moderators keep that up, someday they will have only themselves left to moderate. Your are over the line IMO.
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by digital » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:17 am

Roundabout wrote:
Elderberry wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:Unlike Sandstorm, I think I may stick around to BURN all year round.
How unfortunate for the rest of us.
Elderberry, this is not a Moderator's personal opinion. It is a personal attack by a moderator. It creates dysfunction on the board, if Moderators keep that up, someday they will have only themselves left to moderate. Your are over the line IMO.
As a mod myself on another high traffic forum, I gotta echo this statement. While everyone has opinions, like assholes, moderators are expected to keep theirs clean. Preferably douched and smelling like roses.

I know, it's tough sometimes, but the quality of the board and posters depends on it. Once the mods start cracking and tracking filth in the house soon all guests will do the same. It's the interwebz where slippery slopes are greased with Crisco.

Take the high road, EB. Either ignore lonesomedude or take mod action towards him. Flinging poo is fun but mods should generally keep their hands clean. That's where sock puppets come in handy.

:wink:

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unjonharley
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Re: A Statement from Jim Tananbaum

Post by unjonharley » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:19 am

Elder berry's, You are truly an asshole..

We all love you.. unjonharley
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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