future of burning man?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
mumblemouth
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:29 pm
Burning Since: 2014

future of burning man?

Post by mumblemouth » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:29 am


User avatar
tamarakay
Posts: 3115
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:27 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Dye with Dignity
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: future of burning man?

Post by tamarakay » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:50 am

Read the news ticker at the top. A clue or two there.
When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

Mmmmmm I love the smell of Burning Man - Token

Getting overly dramatic about the ticket sale process is so 2012. - Maladroit


http://www.dyewithdignity.com

User avatar
drop_bear
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:23 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Totenkitten
Location: Hamilton, ON

Re: future of burning man?

Post by drop_bear » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:50 am

2/10. Try harder.

User avatar
Just_Joe
Posts: 999
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:04 pm
Burning Since: 2009
Camp Name: Fly Ranch Project
Location: Nevada

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Just_Joe » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:08 am

tamarakay wrote:Read the news ticker at the top. A clue or two there.
Ya. I had no idea that President's Day was being replaced with "Hug A Muslim" day
I need to stay away from mainstream media and get out there too lern more.

User avatar
stephen2u
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:20 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: No
Location: In my computers C.P.U.

Re: future of burning man?

Post by stephen2u » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:54 am

The E.P.A. is a dictatorship and they do what they want. you can not throw money at it it will not work , if they want to do this, they will do it.In November 2014 the House Passes a Bill that Prohibits Expert Scientific Advice to the EPA they are Gods there. They do what they want.
If burning man really what’s to fix itself just put a name on the ticket of the buyer, and checked at the gate, so no scalping on tickets, if you can’t make it return to ticketfly for full refund, then the ticket is resold at face value.

User avatar
Roundabout
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:41 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Playa Choir
Location: Ridgway, CO

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Roundabout » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:23 am

stephen2u wrote:The E.P.A. is a dictatorship and they do what they want. you can not throw money at it it will not work , if they want to do this, they will do it.In November 2014 the House Passes a Bill that Prohibits Expert Scientific Advice to the EPA they are Gods there. They do what they want.
Conflated and confused logic.
Every aspect of life is education. Even if you don't immediately grasp the lesson. robbidobbs

User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
Posts: 20203
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
Location: Wild, Wild West
Contact:

Re: future of burning man?

Post by AntiM » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:39 am

Moderator note: moved to Philosophy and Politics as that is a better fit than Preparation.

User avatar
Ugly Dougly
Posts: 17175
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Burning Since: 1996
Location: เชียงใหม่

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Ugly Dougly » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:42 am


User avatar
stephen2u
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:20 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: No
Location: In my computers C.P.U.

Re: future of burning man?

Post by stephen2u » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:43 am

:lol: :lol:
If burning man really what’s to fix itself just put a name on the ticket of the buyer, and checked at the gate, so no scalping on tickets, if you can’t make it return to ticketfly for full refund, then the ticket is resold at face value.

User avatar
stephen2u
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:20 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: No
Location: In my computers C.P.U.

Re: future of burning man?

Post by stephen2u » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:24 am

I make 8,110 lbs per year of Co2e greenhouse gas from my mini copper. I did not know burning man made 50,000 tons of greenhouse gas, that would be 110,230,000 lbs that's is huge.
If burning man really what’s to fix itself just put a name on the ticket of the buyer, and checked at the gate, so no scalping on tickets, if you can’t make it return to ticketfly for full refund, then the ticket is resold at face value.

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29386
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: future of burning man?

Post by ygmir » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:28 am

stephen2u wrote:I make 8,110 lbs per year of Co2e greenhouse gas from my mini copper. I did not know burning man made 50,000 tons of greenhouse gas, that would be 110,230,000 lbs that's is huge.

huge? well, in relative terms, spread out over 70K people? then again, compare that, once per year, to any volcano erupting, undersea vents, the automobiles just in one city, forest fires, .....well, a drop of water, is still a drop of water, but when it's dripped into the the ocean, relativity kicks in........
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16901
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: future of burning man?

Post by trilobyte » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:40 am

If I recall the Environmental Assessment study from a few years ago, the calculated carbon emissions from Burning Man (which calculated not only the footprint from burns, but also the output from the vehicles and estimated that from generators as well) put it well below the carbon emissions from a city of its size and population. If you're interested, you could probably find a link to that lengthy study (I recall it being in excess of 300 pages) without too much digging around. It was a dry read, but had a lot of fascinating details.

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 3172
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: future of burning man?

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:47 am

http://www.coolingman.org/learn_more/bu ... mpact.html

The man, made of wood, is carbon neutral. The fossil fuels are not.

As for the EPA, they work years in advance with public and special interest involvement in every move. The media is late to the party.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29386
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: future of burning man?

Post by ygmir » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:00 am

some seeing eye wrote:http://www.coolingman.org/learn_more/bu ... mpact.html

The man, made of wood, is carbon neutral. The fossil fuels are not.

As for the EPA, they work years in advance with public and special interest involvement in every move. The media is late to the party.
why is wood carbon neutral
, and fossil fuel not?
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
stephen2u
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:20 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: No
Location: In my computers C.P.U.

Re: future of burning man?

Post by stephen2u » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:12 am

I don't get it“The idea of major restrictions is never popular among attendees, however none of said attendees can dispute the positive impact the restrictions would have on the estimated 50,000 tons of greenhouse gases produced at thefestival each year.” Is it at the festival or for the festival? Is the EPA just making a big deal about nothing to get more money?
If burning man really what’s to fix itself just put a name on the ticket of the buyer, and checked at the gate, so no scalping on tickets, if you can’t make it return to ticketfly for full refund, then the ticket is resold at face value.

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16901
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: future of burning man?

Post by trilobyte » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:13 am

I know that some argue that properly harvested wood is considered carbon neutral, but for the purposes of the environmental assessment from a few years back they included all sources in calculating the carbon footprint of the event.

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 3172
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: future of burning man?

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:16 am

Good question! Biomass is considered carbon neutral because the plants took current era CO2 out of the atmosphere. The plants forming fossil fuels took it out of the atmosphere over millions of years.

The original article for this thread is fictional humor, not news (much of which is fictional humor too!)
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29386
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: future of burning man?

Post by ygmir » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:19 am

ah, but both having taken their carbon out of the atmosphere, it's just a scale of time then, no?
is releasing the carbon from a 100 year old tree different than the carbon from 2mil. year old oil?
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 3172
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: future of burning man?

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:58 am

It's not how long ago the fossil fuels were formed. It is that they took hundreds of millions of years of plant life to create and we will release it back into the atmosphere in 200 years.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
Rice
Posts: 1759
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:33 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Location: da

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Rice » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:32 am

Here is the link to that 343 page Environmental Assessment from June 2012: https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/pr ... nal_EA.pdf

Finding of NO Significant Impact : https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/pr ... ng_Man.pdf

Found at the following location in the BLM Website: http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_ ... g_man.html
Love Rice

Roach: "I feel like in this day and age, every girl should know how to build a flamethrower."

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16901
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: future of burning man?

Post by trilobyte » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:47 am

That's the one. It's as long and tedious as you might think a 300+ page assessment study might be, but I thought it had a lot of fascinating info.

User avatar
Lonesomebri
Posts: 2580
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
Burning Since: 2018
Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
Location: NorCal

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Lonesomebri » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:03 pm

Each year, every member of the Burning man community should be required to bring a length of lumber taken from the structure of their own home or apartment to the event. This wood could then be used to construct The Man. This would truly be carbon footprint neutral, as no additional wood is logged for The Man. I believe I read an article about this in Scientific Weekly.
Camp THREAT: Dominating the porta potties 3 years running.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire, Candide

User avatar
digital
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:38 pm
Burning Since: 2018
Camp Name: Middle'a-nowhere
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: future of burning man?

Post by digital » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:13 pm

Maybe they should just cancel the event all together. That way people upset over tickets would be happy. People upset over environmental impact would be happy. People upset over the BOD and finances would be happy. Honestly, I don't know how they put up with the naysayers for so many years. Weaker people would have crumbled years ago.

User avatar
Aurelia
Posts: 2432
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: the Love Camp
Location: San Fracisco, Bay Area

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Aurelia » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:39 pm

YAY !
you got it Digi

I kept hoping you or someone like bri would chime in

sit on it dear ones and enjoy this life force of our own making

xoA.

User avatar
Lonesomebri
Posts: 2580
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
Burning Since: 2018
Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
Location: NorCal

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Lonesomebri » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:24 pm

digital wrote:Maybe they should just cancel the event all together. That way people upset over tickets would be happy. People upset over environmental impact would be happy. People upset over the BOD and finances would be happy. Honestly, I don't know how they put up with the naysayers for so many years. Weaker people would have crumbled years ago.
First they ban the complainers, then they ban the fire.
The "they" that "put up with naysayers" probably get something out of the event for themselves, shock!!!!!!!!, and realize that fact, instead of having a put-upon victim/martyr mentality. But it's good somebody is sympathetic to their long non-suffering. All movement is a complaint against the status quo, and the nature of reality is movement, change. In human society and nature this requires human dissatisfaction with how things are. I'm pretty sure that everyone being happy is never going to happen, anywhere, ever, but we each have our own interpretation of how stuff works. Maybe is everyone should just shut-up and follow the orders of the people who do the real work at Black Rock City, then at least some people would be happy.

Wasn't this event started with some guy making a symbolic complaint against a failed romance or something? Damn complainers, ruining everything.
Camp THREAT: Dominating the porta potties 3 years running.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire, Candide

User avatar
digital
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:38 pm
Burning Since: 2018
Camp Name: Middle'a-nowhere
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: future of burning man?

Post by digital » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:36 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:Wasn't this event started with some guy making a symbolic complaint against a failed romance or something? Damn complainers, ruining everything.
FWIW, the symbolic burning of an effigy goes back many, many years. Way before Harvey found himself on a beach.
Something to do with appreciation of life. Not complaining about it.
Or something like that.
Last edited by digital on Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
5280MeV
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:32 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: future of burning man?

Post by 5280MeV » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:47 pm

stephen2u wrote:I did not know burning man made 50,000 tons of greenhouse gas, that would be 110,230,000 lbs that's is huge.
Wood creates approximately twice its mass in CO2 when burned. Unless the man actually weighs over 25,000 tons, it doesn't produce that much CO2. The Eiffel tower only weighs 7300 tons.

We have these conversations in the regionals I participate in and it drives me nuts. Having a giant bonfire is insignificant compared to the CO2 production involved in everyone simply driving to said bonfire.

I can't find numbers for last year's man - but from various blog posts from John Curley I see that the head weighed 3400 lbs and the legs weigh "tens of thousands of pounds each". So I think that 300,000 lbs or 150 tons is a reasonable upper bound for the weight of the wood that comprises the man. So burning the man can only produce on the order of 300 tons of CO2.

One gallon of gas produces 20 lbs of CO2 when burned. The amount of gas used by the average burner probably varies quite a bit. While I am sure that some burners pack into a Prius and come from Reno, others fly across the Atlantic or come in giant RVs. I think that it is safe to say that the average burner uses at least 10 gallons of fuel to get to the event and back. Then just to drive to the event burners produce at least 7000 tons of CO2, or over 20 times the amount produced by burning the man.
Lonesomebri wrote:Each year, every member of the Burning man community should be required to bring a length of lumber taken from the structure of their own home or apartment to the event.
In principle recycling is a good idea, but for burning wood you really want to make sure that your wood is all untreated and not otherwise coated or processed. Burning treated wood is illegal in most states and for very good reason - it has very nasty chemicals.

I think that the best thing to do if building a structure to be burned is to spend extra and ask around for responsibly harvested and sourced lumber. Assuming that the forests are being maintained properly, the wood is part of a closed carbon cycle. The CO2 released by the burned wood is being recaptured by the growing saplings to produce more wood. In my experience, albeit with very small (10-20 foot) sculptures, the cost of transportation is generally larger than the cost of lumber, so it doesn't add much to the overhead of the project to try and source responsible lumber.


Now if we really want to cut down on greenhouse gas emissions from the event by banning things, the best thing to ban by far would be beef. The production of beef is an environmental nightmare, so having a neighborhood cookout and grilling hamburgers is much worse in terms of CO2 production than making large wooden sculptures and setting them on fire (I am not joking).
Image

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 3172
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: future of burning man?

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:58 pm

Image
Image
70K participants contribute maybe 3500 Tons of CO2 in their eating (farting neglected), but they would probably be eating the same back home.
Proving bacon trumps pastrami...
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
Lonesomebri
Posts: 2580
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
Burning Since: 2018
Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
Location: NorCal

Re: future of burning man?

Post by Lonesomebri » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:19 pm

Future of Burning Man-
http://bit.ly/1AMLi2A
Camp THREAT: Dominating the porta potties 3 years running.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire, Candide

User avatar
stephen2u
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:20 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: No
Location: In my computers C.P.U.

Re: future of burning man?

Post by stephen2u » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:30 am

Do you think what whitehouse did this week is going to change the burn? This is federal land .https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... t-and-acro
If burning man really what’s to fix itself just put a name on the ticket of the buyer, and checked at the gate, so no scalping on tickets, if you can’t make it return to ticketfly for full refund, then the ticket is resold at face value.

Post Reply

Return to “Philosophical Center”