Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29378
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by ygmir » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:51 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
a cop standing in said subway could get stabbed or attacked in some, random way.

that applies to EVERYONE...and


by that skewed logic, should we all be walking around looking like a post apocalyptic warrior ninja covered in kevlar scales while toting large rifles?


because i can do that.

if i'm allowed to.....but last i checked, the closure order says i gotta keep mr. blasty at home... 8)
well, I'd say if you feel you wanted to walk around in armor, well, have at it.
I understand what you say about the weapons, but, it is part of their job to be armed, yes? And rightly so, IMHO.
And, if they are in the subway all day, and in uniform, I'd say they are more of a target, and especially if unarmed.
Considering, even if you reject them related to their jobs, you have to know they are still humans and in that situation anyone would want to be protected, and as safe as possible, it seems.

With the societal disdain for police in general, and the added exposure of them to some of the more "crazies" on the streets and subways, I understand them wanting to be armored.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
Simon of the Playa
Posts: 19042
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
Location: Rochester, Nevada.

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:56 am

i think that behavior is a part of the reason why relations between the police and "civilians" ( note the militarized lingo they use ) are the way they are.


we don't need to open up that can of worms here though, this is about the BLM and Procedures on Playa.




as far as i know, no one has shot anyone in the back for no reason while in Black Rock City.
Frida Be You & Me

User avatar
VultureChow
Posts: 2328
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:08 pm
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Hookers & Makers @ Barbie Death Village

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by VultureChow » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:00 am

It's kind of a vicious cycle though isn't it? Cops in the UK aren't all carrying guns. But they have stricter gun control than we do.

Cops carry guns because criminals carry guns, because guns are easy to get, so more people carry guns to protect them from criminals who can get guns while other get guns to protect the cops who have guns from coming to take away their guns.

It's like a 9 yo boy's doodles: A gun made out of guns that shoots guns:

Image
Sic Semper Spectatores

User avatar
Sham
Moderator
Posts: 8467
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:10 am
Location: The hidden mythical place.....

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Sham » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:10 am

On burn night for the past umpteen years, you can find police out on the playa alone while on duty. This truly makes me proud of our community. This entire burner group is a bunch of lovable, fun and generous mutts who enjoy hanging out with each other in the desert. If there was even a 1% chance of danger or .01% chance, there would be pairs of police on patrol. I always make it a point to go over and chat with the police when out there. They seem to be enjoying the event as much as the participants and I have exchanged gifty things with them. I really hope that the upper command of the police don't screw up this great relationship that the foot police have with the community.

User avatar
DrYes
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:22 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Location: Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by DrYes » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:34 am

SageV wrote: Also, there's a handful of Fortune 500's that send "brand experience managers" with Ph.d's to research Burners. As one mentioned to me "I hope you aren't going to bust my balls or punch me in the face now that I told you that we want to replicate the relationship burners have with the Burning Man brand for our brand."
They're definitely out there. Last week an ad agency got in touch saying they have a 'major insurance company' as a client, and wanted to use some of my footage, which they'd pay handsomely for. A fucking insurance company! I had a hard time being polite.

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14683
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Elderberry » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:45 am

SageV wrote: Just to borrow a line from an anarchist I knew "He may seem like Officer Friendly, but he's still the police, and the police are not your friend."
Frankly, that attitude, on both sides, is the biggest problem we have with law enforcement. The police have a job to do, which is to enforce the laws of the land. But they should first and foremost be friendly and respectful to the population they serve. Respect should be mutual. (That is how I remember the neighborhood police when I was growing up--always WALKING, in pairs. Always a friendly nod. Always there to help.)

I can also remember an interaction with them when I was younger in the school yard. Don't recall the situation, but I do remember that rather than arrest us, they marched us home to our parents--which was worse than being arrested.

That being said, just like with other friends, there are some things you might not want to share with them.
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
DrYes
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:22 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Location: Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by DrYes » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:00 am

Elderberry wrote:
SageV wrote: Just to borrow a line from an anarchist I knew "He may seem like Officer Friendly, but he's still the police, and the police are not your friend."
Frankly, that attitude, on both sides, is the biggest problem we have with law enforcement. The police have a job to do, which is to enforce the laws of the land. But they should first and foremost be friendly and respectful to the population they serve. Respect should be mutual.
I don't respect gun-toting rule-enforcers personally. I respect people who are there to help the community. If enforcing a rule doesn't help the community, then the rule is crap and the person enforcing it is an asshole. Difference between law enforcement and "protect and serve" to me is pretty big and while there's overlap, it is far, far from 100%. Good cops understand this and act accordingly.

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14683
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Elderberry » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:06 am

DrYes wrote:
Elderberry wrote:
SageV wrote: Just to borrow a line from an anarchist I knew "He may seem like Officer Friendly, but he's still the police, and the police are not your friend."
Frankly, that attitude, on both sides, is the biggest problem we have with law enforcement. The police have a job to do, which is to enforce the laws of the land. But they should first and foremost be friendly and respectful to the population they serve. Respect should be mutual.
I don't respect gun-toting rule-enforcers personally. I respect people who are there to help the community. If enforcing a rule doesn't help the community, then the rule is crap and the person enforcing it is an asshole. Difference between law enforcement and "protect and serve" to me is pretty big and while there's overlap, it is far, far from 100%. Good cops understand this and act accordingly.
I think that's my point, just said in a different way.
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
SageV
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:39 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Location: I live in a suitcase

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by SageV » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:29 am

Elderberry wrote:Frankly, that attitude, on both sides, is the biggest problem we have with law enforcement. The police have a job to do, which is to enforce the laws of the land. But they should first and foremost be friendly and respectful to the population they serve. Respect should be mutual. (That is how I remember the neighborhood police when I was growing up--always WALKING, in pairs. Always a friendly nod. Always there to help.)
Half my family's in law enforcement, so I hear both sides, but as my godfather who was a detective used to say "after a few years in law enforcement, there's only two kinds of cops, good cops and complete assholes." There's a concept of mutual professionalism in law enforcement, that assumes good faith of other LEO's and they strive to mutually support each other and represent each other in a positive, professional way. That's a good thing, except when someone goes off the reservation, and usually that doesn't blow up in their faces till someone puts it on YouTube. Even the best officers get lawsuits, complaints, and spurious accusations against them, so unless they walk a beat with another officer, how are they going to separate lies and drama from the truth?

Almost 95% of my interactions with LEO's on the playa has been positive, except those years where the BMORG doesn't finish negotiations with the BLM till the last minute, because they both are playing hardball. Then they get officers who have never been on the playa before and they lack the mentoring of the LEO's who come on the playa year after year. Those are the years I've seen officers going completely off the rails, threatening to toss entire camps, yelling at Burners, putting hands on their weapons to intimidate people. I chalk that part up to a serious lack of orientation, the LEO's who enjoy coming onto playa year after year and request the assignment I've never had a problem with.

The real problem is there's no way for us to know the good from the bad from the ugly. Further, we shouldn't have to differentiate. I think the ultimate problem is we can't assume good faith. Most LEO's are good, decent people so it pains me to see within our little community and in society as a whole we've come to this point.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
-- Hunter S. Thompson

User avatar
Sham
Moderator
Posts: 8467
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:10 am
Location: The hidden mythical place.....

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Sham » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:02 pm

Then there is the leadership. The commander sets the tone and the rules of the game. The cops on the streets (playa) are just following their marching orders (take 2013 for instance).

These guys will NEVER live down stopping people for going two car lengths in the ticket line, for not having their seat belts buckled. So many people brought those stories home with them, and police all over lost a huge amount of public trust.

So many people, like myself, have virtually no interactions with police during the year. Now I've become cynical when I read stories of police abuse. What the BLM did in 2013 lost so much respect for them, that I wonder if the extra ticket money for dusty license plate was worth it. What was done was totally inexcusable.

Just my very own personal thoughts. :?

User avatar
GreyCoyote
Posts: 2138
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:24 am
Burning Since: 2000

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by GreyCoyote » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:29 pm

One dirty cop soils the others, its true.

Funny story: A month ago I had a cop in my office who decided I was a criminal douchebag because (get this) some semi sentient simian that had been tasked with taking a bunch of my crap to the dump instead dumped it beside the road 30 miles from me. My name was on one of the boxes. So Sooper Teooper calls me on my UNLISTED cell number. Yes, really.

So as Sooper Trooper was screaming at me and telling me how hardened of a criminal I was, I was encouraging Sooper Trooper to arrest me. Yes, really. Facts be damned, me, with NO CRIMINAL RECORD WHATSOEVER, was now public enemy #1. You cant make this up.

I wont bore you with the dialogue, but the bottom line was I told the cop to either arrest me or fuck off. And as soon as Danno left, I then fired the asswipe who caused this little disturbance with extreme prejudice.

In the end the cop decided not to arrest me, my objections notwithstanding. :mrgreen:

A few pointers:
1). Record everything.
2). Deny you are recording anything
3). Unless you are an attorney, cooperate fully except where your rights have been clearly violated.
4). Make it a point to avoid Danno. Only a fool tries to french-kiss a Morey Eel.
5). Lawyer-up INSTANTLY. Name. Address. City. State. Zip. And that is ALL.
6). Shut. The. Fuck. Up. Your only line is "I want to talk to my lawyer / am I free to go now?"
7). Cops lie. All the time. If their lips are moving, they are lying. Silence is your friend. STFU!!!!

To all you bleeding hearts who think you can "love them over", thank you for playing. You are truly wonderful sheeple. You are sending my kid to college, paying for my home, and financing my burn. Stupid people who think they are smarter than the law are my bread and butter. I love you and think the fact you feel the need to pay my firm thousands to reinstate the rights you have squandered the ultimate "gift". :mrgreen:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

User avatar
chuckularone
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:49 am
Burning Since: 2014
Camp Name: Fish Out Of Water
Location: Newark, Delaware

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by chuckularone » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:34 pm

Marry me, Grey? :twisted:
Remember kiddoes, if you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing!

chuckularone:: Pronounced: Chuck-You-Lar-One
http://makerandfixerofthings.blogspot.com
KF4JPE

User avatar
digital
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:38 pm
Burning Since: 2018
Camp Name: Middle'a-nowhere
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by digital » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:04 pm

8 ). No matter how violated or angry you feel, use SIR.

"Yes, Sir."
"No, Sir."
"Respectfully, Sir, I do not consent to search."
And so on.

You could be 100% in the legal right but until you have a lawyer (and everything else GC wrote above) be respectful and polite. Know your rights. Assert them with respect. If you decide to escalate things to overt video recording (yes, this can be escalation in the cops mind) be sure to do it when appropriate. As in, you are witnessing a clear violation of rights (or feel it's coming). Understandably, cops will immediately place you in the 'them' category once you start recording. Sometimes it is better to be in the 'Us' category -- That is, a law-abiding citizen.
Last edited by digital on Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

maladroit
Posts: 2374
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by maladroit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:15 pm

[media]

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29378
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by ygmir » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:24 pm

I am torn between the fun mischief of that video, and the ass hattery of making guys jobs harder, for no real good reason.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

maladroit
Posts: 2374
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by maladroit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:36 pm

ygmir wrote:I am torn between the fun mischief of that video, and the ass hattery of making guys jobs harder, for no real good reason.
The guy's an asshole and I probably wouldn't invite him to anything, but at the same time I'm glad he's out there being an asshole.

When an officer says "Can you do me a favor and--" this is using his position of power on a personal interaction. You don't have to do anything they ask you to do unless they make it clear they are doing so in an official capacity requiring paperwork.

I guess a possible set of questions would be, "Are you asking me to do this, or telling me to do this?" and maybe if they're telling you to NOT do something, "Is this an official warning; if I keep doing this, will I be arrested?"

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10219
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:43 pm

They could make their jobs easier by staying within legal boundaries and not push the envelope.

The only way to get that done is to set the example and exercise our rights at every opportunity till they get the hint.

Rabble, rabble, rabble......
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
tatonka
Posts: 3354
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:28 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Rancho Deluxe
Location: oregon

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by tatonka » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:54 pm

there are good cops


[media]
Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.
-Plato

If a good man is offered power , he has to lower himself to pick it up .

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29378
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by ygmir » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:13 pm

FIGJAM wrote:They could make their jobs easier by staying within legal boundaries and not push the envelope.

The only way to get that done is to set the example and exercise our rights at every opportunity till they get the hint.

Rabble, rabble, rabble......
well sure, but it does not seem that unreasonable, near the border, to do checks...
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10219
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:13 pm

Reasonable and legal aren't the same thing at all and is how the line gets blurred.

Every vehicle gets checked at the boarder.

Those random ones are 30 miles inside the U.S.

I think it's our duty as citizens to uphold the supreme law of the land that police, military, and politicians all swear to protect and defend.

Are we less responsible than they are?

Or I'm just full of shit.

You decide.
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
Popeye
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Beaverton
Location: Where the east wind blows

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Popeye » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:47 pm

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20gzq ... st-l-a_fun
FIGJAM wrote:They could make their jobs easier by staying within legal boundaries and not push the envelope.

The only way to get that done is to set the example and exercise our rights at every opportunity till they get the hint.
^^^ This

Every time we give up our rights to "make their job easier" we lose a little bit. Someone with that much authority should not be permitted shortcuts.
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do / with your one wild and precious life?” Mary Oliver

User avatar
goathead
Posts: 5317
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:02 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Location: Where I live is not far from home.

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by goathead » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:37 am

Image

User avatar
GreyCoyote
Posts: 2138
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:24 am
Burning Since: 2000

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by GreyCoyote » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:27 am

chuckularone wrote:Marry me, Grey? :twisted:
Same-sex is legal now, and Beams just got her official ULC ordination yesterday... Just sayin'! :mrgreen:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

User avatar
Sham
Moderator
Posts: 8467
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:10 am
Location: The hidden mythical place.....

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Sham » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:44 am

GreyCoyote wrote:
chuckularone wrote:Marry me, Grey? :twisted:
Same-sex is legal now, and Beams just got her official ULC ordination yesterday... Just sayin'! :mrgreen:
It appears that all marginally attractive people doubled their chances for a date on Saturday night. 8)
Now go get a room you two!

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14683
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Re: Hug a BLM and don't mess up

Post by Elderberry » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:54 am

digital wrote:Sometimes it is better to be in the 'Us' category -- That is, a law-abiding citizen.
This is making a pretty broad assumption about the cops.
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

Post Reply

Return to “Philosophical Center”