Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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some seeing eye
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Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:29 pm

I have observed many times attacks, criticism, snark and hidden knives in replies by long time ePlaya contributors replying to posters and topics by pre-virgins, virgins and low ePlaya post count participants in ePlaya.

ePlaya competes with many other social media outlets as the place new burners come for advice. ePlaya has many years knowledge surpassing other online outlets.

Do you want, as an individual, and with all your ePlaya activity, to become completely irrelevant compared to to Facebook, Reddit and other sites?

Each post we and I make can contribute to our personal online identity - I'm burner than thou -, support BM principles, and to making the burn better for newbies, redirecting rather than discouraging them from ePlaya.

My ePlaya niche is well known. And would not say every ePlaya friend should change their style. Something to consider in the larger ePlaya world: it is easy to comment. "I understand ... suggest" "but you could consider that" "You might want to recalibrate." "Because my experience has been" adding /other eplaya cred/.

Your ePlaya identity might be enhanced, not diminished by above!
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by digital » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:50 pm

Agreed.

I was on the receiving end of the snark when I first joined and almost didn't continue participating. Now, a few times, I've caught myself doing the same thing. I generally have no ill-intent but a laugh on my side might be taken as an insult on the other. This is something to continually improve upon and it's good to check oneself.

Thanks, Some Seeing Eye.

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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by gaminwench » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:55 pm

agreed.
There's always Page 2 for the snark; actually one of my favorite threads on eplaya! 8)

(Liz Estrada, rest her soul, was my personalsnark; that b***h almost did me in,love you, Simon) :mrgreen:

It truly pains me to see, on the other boards, that eplaya is widely considered to be an awful shark tank that devours its young;
when we all know that this is actually the BEST place to get real information.
And, at least from my experience, you fuckos are some of the kindest, wisest, most open, generous people on the planet. :roll:

The next 6 weeks are likely to be chock full of confuzzled, uninformed newbies who are panicking to prepare for their first homecoming;
there will be stupid questions :( , there will be outrageous expectations :shock: , there will be flailing and wailing :| .

Let us be the wise elders, not the schoolyard bullies! (there's BookFace for that!)

See y'all at the MnG!!!
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by ygmir » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:16 pm

good post, thanks!
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Elliot » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:20 pm

:D
I'm in.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by lucky420 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:21 pm

I get real tired of the questions that can be easily answered by the basic research. So I bite my tongue and just keep quiet most times when it comes to newbs asking those types of questions...
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Drawingablank » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:21 pm

I agree. Although I feel we don't need to be care bears (especially once we hit page 2), some of the page 1 replies have been quite vitriolic for no apparent reason.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Elderberry » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:29 pm

This is not the first time this topic has been addressed. Which is why the "Page 2 rule" was instituted and from which sprang the "Page 2 topic" for those without the patience to wait for Page 2.

ePlaya is tame compared to those sites you mentioned and I doubt it will become irrelevant any time soon. (At least not because of comments. The format? Maybe.)

My personal opinion, of course.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Ratty » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:40 pm

Count me in too. Great post. Welcome one and all. I wouldn't say 'Playa dust' if I had a mouthful.

(Unless you're planning to bring some oversized beachball to run me down.) :lol:
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Meat Hunter » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:44 pm

Except for Zorb(ers) who do not listen, I am in 100%.....

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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by maladroit » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:56 pm

Half the bellyaching I see is from people who simply don't like being told "No, I don't think that will work. Have you Googled this? Did you read the Survival Guide?"

Try not to confuse how loudly someone complains with the actual level of injustice they've experienced.

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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by lucky420 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:10 pm

Fuck ya'll gettin soft... :lol:

Then again I am a Gemini.
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deal with it.

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:25 pm

1912507_10152378551828101_2613075043690720323_n.jpg



seriously.....this place if anything, is the Vanilla Missionary Positon of Burning Man Boards, even more so in recent years.

we need MORE snark, not less.

it separates the wheat from the chaff.

just my opinion, but one that i firmly believe.

Sorry, but i cannot be what i am not. And i am a snarky motherfucking asshole sometimes.

deal with it, or ignore me. But don't tell me how to "be".
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Elderberry » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:46 pm

^^ :) ^^
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Re: deal with it.

Post by lucky420 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:55 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
1912507_10152378551828101_2613075043690720323_n.jpg



seriously.....this place if anything, is the Vanilla Missionary Positon of Burning Man Boards, even more so in recent years.

we need MORE snark, not less.

it separates the wheat from the chaff.

just my opinion, but one that i firmly believe.

Sorry, but i cannot be what i am not. And i am a snarky motherfucking asshole sometimes.

deal with it, or ignore me. But don't tell me how to "be".
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:56 pm

let me be clear on another thing.



i think "the eplaya" should be a training ground for The Playa.



toughen that skin up a little folks, the banter is fast and furious on the real playa, its not all Peace and fucking Patchouli, it just isnt.


why should this place be any different...I LIKE the diversity.....some people on this board are going to be Predictable in their responses, no matter what the subject is...they are nice, pleasant and informative.

thats great....it's wonderful.....thank g*d someone has the patience, and / or is just genuinely nice.....it happens.


the rest of us have our moments, both bad and good, but thats who we are. You really can't tell popeye that he can't eat his spinach because it offends the Plant Party.

you can't dictate the tone of what and how people communicate.

i understand what you are trying to do, and it is admirable.

and also not gonna happen.

the moment that i feel i can't say what i want to say is the moment i leave and don't come back...even if it is for the best of intentions, i hate censorship, subtle or otherwise, i really do.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Ratty » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:11 pm

The suggestion in the original post works for me. It's like a New Years resolution to be a nicer person. If you just be nicer once in a while you're living up to your goal. I try to be as nice as I can online. Helpful, supportive and caring. (In person not so much.) It reminded me to put on my eplaya magic robe and help the fetuses. I don't logon in the hopes of shredding someone's ideas or hurting their feelings. The rest of you guys know me. I'll help you in person but don't count on electronic compassion.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by gaminwench » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:41 pm

Don't get me wrong, Simon, I enjoy the snark even though it's not my particular style.

It's the ganging up on folks before there's been any constructive suggestion made (even if that's just 'Read the Guides, newb!' Do your homework!).
It looks/feels like piranhas on bait.

I would never tell one 'how to be', merely asking for a 'look before you snark'. :roll:
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by VultureChow » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:56 pm

Snark is crucial to the environment here. Too many believe to be some hippy love fest, rainbow family with EDM. On Facebook, someone came around ticket begging to manifest their ticket with PLUR energy. I had to look up PLUR.

Burning Man is not that. It was good for me to get a flavor of it before the playa.

That said.... We're not doing ourselves any favors if it scares off the virgins. It's not like they won't show up. They'll chalk it up to an Internet thing and still come out to the desert. Only they'll miss the collective wisdom of eplaya. They'll be the annoying needy sparkle pony. The drunk entitled douchebro. The very things we mock and claim is ruining the event.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:26 pm

i get it, i really do, i am trying in a number of ways to stop being so abrasive.


i apologize in advance to all of those gentler souls....please, don't take any of this personally, and just throw it right back, or ignore it, or make your case, i respect all of these options.


i think it's all part of inclusion actually....we all cant be west coast, or buddhists, or suck on vishnus toe or whatever, there are many of us out here who do not practice yoga or the healing arts or any other new age happy hippy claptrap BECAUSE WE DONT WANT TO...

and also, g*d forbid, black rock city be entirely filled with people from ANY region, cultural, spiritual or otherwise.

thats why i go....the DIVERSITY of thought...and the way people do things.

some people like to put the truth on a silver platter, easy access, for all to grab and consume.

others like to wrap it up in a whole heap of horseshit, so that golden nugget inside actually means something when they find it.

sometimes picking through the crap is part of the process.

snark in moderation, i agree....im on a twelve step program myself, living life with very little filters does take its toll socially i suppose, so i am trying to dull some of the rusty serrated edges a bit as a consideration to those that have to interact with me on a regular basis.

time will tell whether i can accomplish this...i quit smoking cigarettes 2 years ago, so i can do anything..

again, to all newbies and potential eplayans...i am an abominable snowman with no teeth, but i do bounce. do not be afraid...my bark is very much, worse than my bite.


one added thought...this applies to almost ALL of the "snarks" on this board...they are lovely people, who spend countless hours on the event and give more than they broadcast they do.

this is the way some of us talk to each other...it really is...it can be brutal, and funny, and brutally funny...

i love coming on here and seeing True Snark....the comment you are thinking but just wouldnt type, but damn, it was dead on and i just spit coffee through my nose...

you can call them what you want, but some of the "gang" that was referred to are funny as fuck...it's too bad if some people don't think it's funny, thats really on THEM, isnt it...

Lenny Bruce is twisting in his grave....maybe twitching a little bit,

so i hope it's understood that to moderate they way people are for the sake of some kind of "common decency" is a very very very slippery slope.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:04 pm

"I understand you are saying/asking XYZ"
Acknowledge/ complement/ be a person to them.
"Did you search for XYZ on ABC?"
"Hmm"
"Based on experience, long time burners like we, think DEF is best for XYZ" - references.

"If you want to verify that or check that in person connect with your regional/in-person friends."

"If you have specific questions you have researched but not answered, ePlaya is a great resource for that and for person-person networking. We love when ePlayans clearly note their questions after a search."

Insert snark as a coda.

We have a shortage of long time burners on ePlaya. Don't quit any of you! But in my opinion consider each post towards long term ePlaya relevance and existence.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Eric » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:19 pm

Honestly, I agree with both sides. Anyone who's met me offline, or read one of my rants in the Weekly, knows that I am firmly in the "fuck yer day" camp at Burning Man. Not so much here however, since this isn't offline and it's a lot harder for people to read "tone" or pick up nuances - especially someone who has never been to Burning Man and buys the media view that we're a love-and-drug hippie fest. Instead of their first response bringing them down for a soft landing in reality, they get shoved off a cliff into it.

All I would ask is that the question gets a real answer before people start unloading the snark cannons - and maybe spend a second to think if your snark is actually funny before posting it. I'm not a stickler on the "page two 'rule", I would just like to see a post get answered before people jump down someone's throat. As said above, that answer can sometimes be as simple as "That's covered in the Survival Guide, read that first"

We've come a long way from the battle zone ePlaya was when I joined it, and I like the way it is now. The above is one of the few things I'd like to see change.

Now everyone go center their chakras and drink their green juice, and we can all meditate on how wonderful we are.

EDIT: for people who really want to be helpful, including links to the Survival Guide and First Timers Guide in your sig make it easy for newbies to find them. Yes, it's hand-holding, but sometimes that helps.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by maladroit » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:47 pm

A kinder, gentler mePlaya for the me-generation.

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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by ShellyJo » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:01 pm

VultureChow wrote: That said.... We're not doing ourselves any favors if it scares off the virgins. It's not like they won't show up. They'll chalk it up to an Internet thing and still come out to the desert. Only they'll miss the collective wisdom of eplaya. They'll be the annoying needy sparkle pony. The drunk entitled douchebro. The very things we mock and claim is ruining the event.
I read VultureChow's post and I thought it was worth responding... (and you will probably snark at me for it).

I found myself reading this thread because I am a virgin (hell, I don't even have a ticket yet, so I'm more of a pre-virgin). I've gotten more and more excited about attending BM the more I've learned about it over the years. I'm hoping to go this year and don't have anyone guiding me, so info on eplaya has so far been helpful. I just joined eplaya a few days ago, and started looking at the tickets posts, and seriously, all of my excitement was quickly replaced by serious doubt about BM altogether, after reading a few posts just completely bashing newbies. Yes, I went on the read enough other optimistic posts to recover and am still here. I totally get it, and I've certainly been on the other end many times (being a veteran of an event and being frustrated with naive newbies for being naive, or not even wanting newbies there at all).

IMO, the danger of being overly snarky is that the "annoying needy sparkle pony" and the "drunk entitled douchebro" are the ones that will be completely oblivious or only vaguely phased, and THEY are the ones that will still show up/participate in eplaya and still ask stupid questions. While the people with some common sense of being part of a community are the ones that might NOT show up. It is possible to inadvertently be screening OUT the people you want and screening IN the people you don't.... OR I might be totally wrong.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Elderberry » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:00 pm

Eric wrote:.

Now everyone go center their chakras and drink their green juice, and we can all meditate on how wonderful we are.
Maybe this will help with that.
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by Eric » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:44 pm

maladroit wrote:A kinder, gentler mePlaya for the me-generation.
Don't worry, you can still yell at the kids about being on your lawn, just wait until someone has answered their question. Not an edict, just a request.
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Re: deal with it.

Post by DrYes » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:19 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
1912507_10152378551828101_2613075043690720323_n.jpg
seriously.....this place if anything, is the Vanilla Missionary Positon of Burning Man Boards, even more so in recent years.

we need MORE snark, not less.

it separates the wheat from the chaff.

just my opinion, but one that i firmly believe.

Sorry, but i cannot be what i am not. And i am a snarky motherfucking asshole sometimes.

deal with it, or ignore me. But don't tell me how to "be".


Haha. I love you, man, and I hope to give you a dusty hug someday. You say what you believe, and we have the same goals.

But, I disagree with you on this issue. One of the reasons I started Burn.Life is I just got fed up with watching well-meaning birgins getting bullshit answers on various platforms to their well-meaning (if often, admittedly, lazy) questions. I don't like hazing in general, and that's what it seems like to me. There's enough barrier to climb by just requiring people to prep to be out there without adding on the jerkiness, imo.

My point of view is that there's no succeeding by driving people off. We have to succeed by absorbing them into our culture. It's crucially important now that we've hit the age of ticket scarcity, where we can't guarantee that long-term veterans can come every year.

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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by moonrise » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:31 am

Peace 8)
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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by AntiM » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:55 am

Eric wrote:
maladroit wrote:A kinder, gentler mePlaya for the me-generation.
Don't worry, you can still yell at the kids about being on your lawn, just wait until someone has answered their question. Not an edict, just a request.
So much this. I've been hammering away at this for what feels like forever.

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Re: Encouraging new or newer ePlaya participants

Post by mudpuppy000 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:09 am

ShellyJo wrote:
VultureChow wrote: That said.... We're not doing ourselves any favors if it scares off the virgins. It's not like they won't show up. They'll chalk it up to an Internet thing and still come out to the desert. Only they'll miss the collective wisdom of eplaya. They'll be the annoying needy sparkle pony. The drunk entitled douchebro. The very things we mock and claim is ruining the event.
I read VultureChow's post and I thought it was worth responding... (and you will probably snark at me for it).

I found myself reading this thread because I am a virgin (hell, I don't even have a ticket yet, so I'm more of a pre-virgin). I've gotten more and more excited about attending BM the more I've learned about it over the years. I'm hoping to go this year and don't have anyone guiding me, so info on eplaya has so far been helpful. I just joined eplaya a few days ago, and started looking at the tickets posts, and seriously, all of my excitement was quickly replaced by serious doubt about BM altogether, after reading a few posts just completely bashing newbies. Yes, I went on the read enough other optimistic posts to recover and am still here. I totally get it, and I've certainly been on the other end many times (being a veteran of an event and being frustrated with naive newbies for being naive, or not even wanting newbies there at all).

IMO, the danger of being overly snarky is that the "annoying needy sparkle pony" and the "drunk entitled douchebro" are the ones that will be completely oblivious or only vaguely phased, and THEY are the ones that will still show up/participate in eplaya and still ask stupid questions. While the people with some common sense of being part of a community are the ones that might NOT show up. It is possible to inadvertently be screening OUT the people you want and screening IN the people you don't.... OR I might be totally wrong.
I lurked on here for a while before my first burn, but never bothered to register because the board seemed like it was full of a bunch of assholes. I didn't know any other burners at that point either so for all I knew, the playa was going to be the same way as well. Anyway, I went on my solo virgin burn and had a blast, but it took a little while to see that the average burner isn't as much of an asshole as my first impression led me to believe. Actually there are quite a few assholes, but it comes off better in person for some reason. :)

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