Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

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Ratty
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Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Ratty » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:30 pm

We need more exposure to this issue.

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:19 pm

Issue? Is there any race issue at Burning Man?
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Elderberry » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:47 pm

We've been told that our Whitney Houston Crack is Whack Party (Serving Bobby's Punch) is one of the most diverse events on the playa.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by ygmir » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:21 pm

exposure to what issue?
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Ratty » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:32 pm

Sorry guys. I put on a 15 minute video about different ethnic groups going to the burn. I didn't get permission from the video owners. Maybe it'll air later.

Issue means 'topic for discussion'. Not 'problem'. I don't see a problem at the burn but the video made me think of a few things. I find it interesting to say the least. (The general population breakdown of the western states as opposed to the BRC population.)

This crowd has a 6 year thread on what is the best pee bottle ....
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by bluemiragemi » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:03 am

Thanks for posting this Ratty! I completely agree - we, as a community, and BMORG, do need to address diversity in our population and how we welcome that. I understand we are comfortable expressing ourselves...that's not what I'm talking about :)
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:07 am

Wtf do you mean "addressing diversity"? What kind of politically correct bs is this? Who at burning man is discriminating against anyone?
Where is the problem? If black or yellow or white or red or any color people want to go, they're already 100% welcome.
This is the kind of artificial feel-good shit only white people do.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Dr Helix » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:47 am

The only discrimination I know about at Burning man is that it costs a lot to go. At least it does for me. So if you can't afford it, you can't go.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Skuzzy61 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:09 am

This is a confusing thread.

Has someone been turned away, if they had a ticket? I missed that discussion. URL please?

I did do a Google search and found nothing to indicate there was a problem with anyone attending the event.

<scratching head>Really odd thread.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by misfit » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:26 am

no one has ever been turned away at the event for race or color,,, it is a multi-ethnic event. so why the fuck does this thread exist.?. :shock:
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by mudpuppy000 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:44 am

That's like trying to convince someone to go that doesn't really want to. It's a waste of their and your time. Everyone that wants to put in the effort is welcome.

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Ratty » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:52 am

Geez. I already apologized because the thread lost it's video. I invited you all to the movies and then showed only a commercial.

NO. This isn't about discrimination.

No. It's not a PC 'making whitey feel good' thread. (But thanks for thinking of me).

Really misfit? I'm sorry you didn't read the whole thread. I wrote
Issue means 'topic for discussion'. Not 'problem'. I don't see a problem at the burn but the video made me think of a few things. I find it interesting to say the least. (The general population breakdown of the western states as opposed to the BRC population.)
I'm really sorry I wrote the word 'Issue'. A lot of people think it means 'problem'.

Dr Helix, the video talks about how expensive it is. One camp requested a free ticket from the Borg. for their camp to gift, (and got it). I guess it peaked my interest because I'm working in Census this year.

As far as there being NO racial discrimination at THITD...I wouldn't know. I'm white.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Skuzzy61 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:05 am

Uh,..so you have never been turned away from a job you were qualified for because you were white? I have. I was even told they had their quota of white people.

Do you believe white people cannot be discriminated against? Just curious. The definition of the word "discriminate" does not make any reference to "white color" being excluded from its meaning.

I really do not wish to stir the pot, but my curiosity is driving the bus right now and I am stuck in the back seat watching it happen.

Why do we have to be so attentive to color/race anyway? Why is it we cannot just simply be "people"?
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Ratty » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:07 am

Well wouldn't that be peachy.

I've been at my present job since 1978 so not much chance of that. I did however work in a commercial laundry in Los Angeles. The boss and I spoke english, It was over 100 degrees in parts of the building, 2 ten minute breaks and a 20 minute lunch. I stood in the center of 3 mangles spinning in a circle for 8 hours. I lasted a week.
Last edited by Ratty on Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Skuzzy61 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:09 am

Ratty wrote:Well wouldn't that be peachy.
Why yes, it would be. It has to start somewhere. Who's to say it does not start now, here, this moment? Everything started somewhere.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Dr. Pyro » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:44 am

This is a thread and topic only a real Liberal could love. Ratty, I know you're not a whack job, but this is silly. Now if you're going to tell me they're too many Jews at Burning Man, then we'd have something to talk about.

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Raoul » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:53 am

There are too many weird people there. I think it needs to be more welcoming to normal people.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Ratty » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:02 am

Doc, That's why I don't let my husband come with me. Actually, (that is normaly the word people use when they are getting ready to lie), I was only interested in sharing the video. Eplaya has been kind of vacant for a few days. I guess it's the ticket rush hangover.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by vargaso » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:33 am

I watched the video, seems like it was put together by people of color to explain to other people of color what Burning Man is about and that while it may seem like a "white people" thing, it's actually quite inclusive and has something offer to people of all hues. There's even a black guy on there saying one of the reasons not a lot of black people go is because "black people don't camp," which Larry got a lot of flack for mentioning. It all seems legit to me, and I'm with most of the others on this thread who don't think there's a diversity problem at all on the playa. Seems like some Burners of color evangelizing the event. I'm against evangelizing the event in general because there's too fucking many people already, but that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Papa Bear » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:36 pm

It seems to me that there's a big difference between asking:

"Are we as a community doing anything (even unintentionally) that might be discouraging members of certain groups from attending? If so, what are those things, can we address them, and how?"

vs.

"We don't have enough people from these groups! That means we're racist/bigoted/whatever! How do we get more to come?"

I suspect Ratty was asking the first question, not the second.

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Skuzzy61 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:57 pm

I agree with you PapaBear, and that is what is confusing to me.

To get a ticket to Burning Man is all done via the Internet (I am pretty sure that is true,..correct this birgin if not). Nowhere in any of the questions required to fill out can I find anything asking about race, color, religious preferences and so on.

How much less can you do to make sure you are not targeting a specific group or groups of people? Sure it is expensive, but I do not see airline companies handing out free passage to Italy in order to have more diversity in who travels there.

There are always going to be less fortunate people in every sector. It is the nature of a capitalistic society.

I just do not understand. My own failing, I suppose.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by vargaso » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:41 pm

Papa Bear wrote:It seems to me that there's a big difference between asking:

"Are we as a community doing anything (even unintentionally) that might be discouraging members of certain groups from attending? If so, what are those things, can we address them, and how?"

vs.

"We don't have enough people from these groups! That means we're racist/bigoted/whatever! How do we get more to come?"

I suspect Ratty was asking the first question, not the second.
Again, watching the video, it's clearly made by people of color for people of color to dispel any myths or preconceptions that Burning Man is a "white people thing." I don't think the video is call for any kind of reappraisal of how the burner community and/or the BMORG should approach diversity. If it was, I'd be totally against it. I don't care a whit if Burning Man comes off as a "white people thing" (it mostly is) because the community and the event does nothing to discourage minority attendance. And I don't want us second-guessing how we express ourselves on the playa. If sometimes that expression has the potential to offend, like wearing a Native American headdress, then let's have a conversation about that specifically. Burning Man ain't PC and may even offend this or that person for this or that reason. Let's keep it that way.

Edited to add: I would have different criteria if we were talking about public schools or the judicial system or other more crucial and mandatory aspects of public life. But Burning Man is a totally voluntary arts festival in the desert. Everyone (who can score a ticket) is free to attend. Or not to attend.

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Elderberry » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:05 pm

Ratty wrote:
This crowd has a 6 year thread on what is the best pee bottle ....
Hahahahahah :D :D :D :D :D :D :D That's too funny--because it's so true! :oops: :cry:
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:11 pm

Still love ya Ratty! :)
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by BBadger » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:34 pm

Burning Man does seem like a "white" event, but not because of any purposeful discrimination, but more as a result of the outside historic role of racism and ethnic subjugation in determining class, financial ability, and social environments. Even with free tickets it may not be possible for many to attend simply because of lack of means or even time.

But alas...

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:08 am

BBadger wrote:Burning Man does seem like a "white" event, but not because of any purposeful discrimination, but more as a result of the outside historic role of racism and ethnic subjugation in determining class, financial ability, and social environments.
Well shit, I never thought I'd say this but I gotta agree with The Bbadge on this one.

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Savannah » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:09 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:
BBadger wrote:Burning Man does seem like a "white" event, but not because of any purposeful discrimination, but more as a result of the outside historic role of racism and ethnic subjugation in determining class, financial ability, and social environments.
Well shit, I never thought I'd say this but I gotta agree with The Bbadge on this one.
You're both quite right, in my opinion. It's a group of disproportionately free thinkers, which also happens to skews young, modern & creative compared to the nation at large. I'm totally welcome there as a person of color. The "whiteness" of Burning Man is a socioeconomic/cultural/financial issue, and also one of how information travels, and how subcultures evolve from hidden to popular.

If a disproportionate number of your ethnic group is poor, they are less likely to take $2,000 camping trips, have paid vacation time, or find romance in the idea of going without daily amenities. Secondly, especially in the early days, one was more likely to hear about it through the grapevine and through friends. Most people don't have a perfect melting pot of friends, so the event was, for a long time, told from friend to friend, and this had a natural effect of keeping it fairly homogeneous. And then you have the eventual media portrayals, mostly featuring Caucasian folk and youth and prettiness, to the point where we get people delurking on this board with timorous worries that they're not cute enough or too old at 40 or 50 or 60 to go to this event. Well the same effect happens with black folks. They don't see themselves in the videos so much, so unless one knows Burners, it's easy to wonder if one is welcome.

So yeah, I don't see many African Americans at the event, but it's always exciting when I do.


Last year I was visiting the fantastic "Voted Best Camp" (Camp KOOG) at 2 o clock and outer streets. They run a bar, a skate ramp, a bootleg roller coaster and a radio station (KOOG). The radio station might be their best feature; demented stuff all day.

I came walking up to the bar and the DJ/Bartender on duty started hopping up and down ("Ooo! Oo!") and ran with a thick sharpie to the back wall, which was covered in graffiti. He had a list going called "Black People at Burning Man". It was mid-week, and he had made maybe 7 or 8 tick marks. He readied himself to draw a new vertical mark on the wall, then looked over his shoulder at me with a penetrating glance, and wrote carefully:

0.5

I was then referred to as "Point-Five" for the rest of my cozy hour long inaugural visit there, and you may have heard me narrating "Porn for the Blind" over the radio. :lol:
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by BBadger » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:28 pm

Savannah wrote: If a disproportionate number of your ethnic group is poor, they are less likely to take $2,000 camping trips, have paid vacation time, or find romance in the idea of going without daily amenities. Secondly, especially in the early days, one was more likely to hear about it through the grapevine and through friends. Most people don't have a perfect melting pot of friends, so the event was, for a long time, told from friend to friend, and this had a natural effect of keeping it fairly homogeneous. And then you have the eventual media portrayals, mostly featuring Caucasian folk and youth and prettiness, to the point where we get people delurking on this board with timorous worries that they're not cute enough or too old at 40 or 50 or 60 to go to this event. Well the same effect happens with black folks. They don't see themselves in the videos so much, so unless one knows Burners, it's easy to wonder if one is welcome.
That is an excellent description.
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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Dr. Pyro » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:25 pm

Am I the only one who never thought of Savannah as a person-of-anything except a beautiful person? Never even dawned on me that she is, what?, anything other than "one of us". Race, creed, etc. happily in my experience never rears its ugly head. I love you all because you're my friends. And yes Savannah, I'm flirting with you. So what else is new?

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Re: Let's make the burn a truly multi-ethnic event.

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:50 am

Well Doc that's a great point.
I've never even thought of what category she belongs in either. She's just Savannah. (And you're right, she is pretty).
I think what threw this thread off track right away is the title of it, more than the content of it.
The title "Lets MAKE the burn a truly multi-ethnic event" implies that it isn't one already, when in fact I think it's already as multi-ethnic as taking a dump.
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