Further Future deleted by mods?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Chowski
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Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Chowski » Tue May 03, 2016 1:33 pm

So, someone recently posted about Further Future, and I responded. Within seconds, the entire convo was deleted. Why is that? Are we not allowed to discuss news articles which reference Burning Man? Are we not allowed to discuss events which capitalize (literally) on our event?

Perhaps one of the Mods has a commercial stake in this latest TechBro Douchebag Billionaire Parasite EDM ripoff of Burning Man culture?

Or maybe it's Tannenbaum!

This guy has two thumbs and wants to know. And wants to discuss Further Future.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by dpsrch » Tue May 03, 2016 1:56 pm

My post was deleted. Supposedly, this isn't a place to promote other events. My post was definitely not promotional. The article casts the event in a very critical light and I agree with the critique. Burning Man is also discussed in the article so that's why I think it's relevant.

Here's the message I received:

"Yes, I removed your post on the Burning Man-like event. Yes, we know they're out there, but we are trying not to promote them here.
Thanks for your understanding.
Sham....
Moderator"

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue May 03, 2016 2:04 pm

You know the deal. Any press is good press.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by BBadger » Tue May 03, 2016 2:07 pm

All I can say about Further Future is: BRING IT ON! Nothing warms my heart more than seeing a separate event like that attracting those folk. Even then, the tickets are only $350 -- $40 less than what they charge us to attend BM -- and no VPs (vehicle passes, not vice presidents). I wonder if they even have a ticket shortage? Of course that doesn't pay for the amenities, but it's not like we get amenities for free at this event either.

Looking at the pictures, it looks positively boring. Most are pictures of people sitting around on some empty stages. Sure you get to schmooze with tech socialites, but other than that, it's just a standard camp-out-in-the-desert-and-pay-for-the-benefit festival, with little art, not many people, and tickets that still cost a few hundred dollars. It doesn't look like a rip off so much as a pale imitation.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Sham » Tue May 03, 2016 2:11 pm

Porta-potties are an amenity. Don't forget it!

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Chowski
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Chowski » Tue May 03, 2016 2:36 pm

At least we get to discuss it for a hot minute, before we get shut down again!

Yep, it looks like the worst kind of Caravansicle Krug Champagne Susan Sarandon 1%-er crap. It is Burning Man, stripped of the effort and the reward. An expensive prostitute dressed up in Burner gear, and sold to the highest bidder. I suppose what irks me is the founders are Burners (and Robot Heart)! I recently went to the Theme Camp Leadership event in San Francisco, and we were forced to sit there and listen to a woman who runs a turnkey camp for the Parasite Observer Class. Not only did she heartily defend her camp and it's commercial services, she was backed up by the BMOrg. I know they are forced to occasionally pretend to support the Ten Principles, but I can't help but feel that they are increasingly lost in the world and ethos of the TechBro Bullshit Bubble.

And I am certain they are working with Robot Heart to ensure that they get the best placement, all the amenities they need, and all the resources to accommodate their fanbase/customers.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by mudpuppy000 » Tue May 03, 2016 2:52 pm

For some reason I kept getting bombarded with ads for it on facebook. Sounds like they were desperate to sell tickets and spin the event in a positive light.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by lucky420 » Tue May 03, 2016 3:00 pm

youre just cooler than us mudpuppy 8)
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Sham » Tue May 03, 2016 3:21 pm

mudpuppy000 wrote:For some reason I kept getting bombarded with ads for it on facebook. Sounds like they were desperate to sell tickets and spin the event in a positive light.
I'm seeing them all over FB as well. The link here is the problem, not the discussion.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by dpsrch » Tue May 03, 2016 3:52 pm

Sham. Thanks for the clarification. I'll keep that in mind in the FUTURE :wink:

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue May 03, 2016 3:59 pm

I was fine with us not providing one more search result for that "1%-er", I'm-too-rich-for-BM event.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by maladroit » Tue May 03, 2016 4:13 pm

I know some people who went there, they seemed to have a good time (will learn more someday later). They're veteran burners.

I think it's dumb to call it a "1-percenter Burning Man" or "Burning Man minus whatever" or "Burning Man ignoring all the principles" etc. t's not a Burning Man anything, it's not Burning Man, it's a different event.

Oh wait, I'm wrong...let's all start describing Coachella as "Burning Man with a lot more big name artists and a food court" or EDC as "Burning Man almost entirely made of raver chicks, frat boys, and no crusty old-timers" and the default world as "Burning Man with a lot more clothes and a lot less dust."

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by maladroit » Tue May 03, 2016 4:19 pm

Chowski wrote:And I am certain they are working with Robot Heart to ensure that they get the best placement, all the amenities they need, and all the resources to accommodate their fanbase/customers.
For this other event, or for ours? I mean, every large sound camp is "worked with" for optimal placement. And Robot Heart has been punished before with sub optimal placement...they had a nasty MOOP report in 2013 and were placed ALL the way back on 10:00 in 2014 (and only made it up a couple streets in 2015). That said, they're a mobile exhibit and don't really need ideal placement to do their thing. So your statement doesn't really make sense to me.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue May 03, 2016 4:23 pm

It's very clearly a burning man substitute for rich people. They even say so themselves.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by maladroit » Tue May 03, 2016 4:35 pm

Well, that sounds fine to me then. Burning Man is for everyone (including rich people) but we don't like that power being thrown around on the playa (especially hiring people to provide "experiences" etc). So give them a playground to act out their own fantasies and "network" as much as they want, build hierarchies and social structure if that's fun. Then maybe they come to our event and decide to just have a good time being some random dusty dude drinking cheap beer.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Ano » Tue May 03, 2016 6:37 pm

I went to this event.

The article I'm sure this thread is referencing, the other article floating around, and a few other pieces on this event are all way off base and quite frankly it is making my head hurt.

I say - before you decide to judge something, perhaps one should try actually *going* to the fucking event or talking to people who attended rather than reading an article with cherry-picked quotes. Or, hell, try actually talking to the organizers or people behind it. But reading one or two articles that are designed to be inflammatory and cause conflict is a stupid way to form an opinion.

I used to hate RH. I really really hated them. They seemed to represent everything I disliked about the Playa. But then I met someone who runs the bus and had a very nice conversation with them. I dare say that they are some of the best Burners I've ever met - no sarcasm. The lengths they go to run their bus and their camp are fucking astounding, and if it wasn't associated with rich folks, I'm pretty sure people would be in awe of what they do. They are self-funded, they do NOT sell camping spots or accommodations on Playa, their entire op is self-sufficient, and I dare say they are one of the nicer giant loud cars. Ever watch it pull out of camp? They'll make absolute sure to never face the city, if they go to an art burn they face it towards Deep Playa, if they drive through the city the sound is off and unplugged, since the new sound rules they have never turned on in the city in fact, every time they park the bus they GPS-map a massive section of the playa where they parked to return to later for MOOP (and they record the route they take to MOOP!), and more. That's much more effort than most camps go through - and bad MOOP ratings in camp have come from shit that would kill any camp. How many of us have had an accident in camp one year? Lots of us. We don't get in trouble forever for it - but apparently, they do. They were on of the first camps to not release a lineup after doing it for years (and still don't) and they actually have some really cool daytime and evening programming like yoga, meditation, or album listening parties for classic stuff like Dark Side of the Moon.

Now they are doing their own thing, a thing not related to Burning Man in ANY way (and they refuse to mention it in any promotional materials and any comparisons are not drawn by them), and a thing that goes out of its way to not advertise that RH is there (try and find any RH references on their website or promotion prior to the event... you won't, other than them announcing that the bus will be there SIX months after announcing the festival, and then some very recent "hey here's the lineup and yeah we're parking it here" and "look at these cool pictures from the festival!" posts on facebook).

Burners can be some of the most insufferable douchebags I have ever encountered. "Oh noooo! Rich people are doing something, and I DONT LIKE IT!" News-fucking-flash: go visit First Camp or walk down K street one day. Rich people have been at Burning Man FOREVER, and I'm sure if I walked around First Camp and wrote down everything I said, I could make an inflammatory article too.

At least FF was honest with what it was. BM will still honk the "we're changing the world!!!" horn and the "we all radically survive!" trumpet, while both of those are expressly false.

I went to the event with an open mind and had a mind-blowingly good time. I haven't gone to a festival to not-work and relax since 2011, when I attended my first Burn. I forgot that it's actually possible to do things like get water or buy food. I'm definitely gonna go again. And before anyone asks - I'm a receptionist who lives in deep East Oakland and barely makes ends meet, I don't work in tech, and I work for three weeks+ at the Burn including running a theme camp, volunteering with a BMORG group, and helping support a network of returning artists every year. So fucking shoot me if I wanted to go have a bowl of pho and get a massage while listening to some great music. Apologies for saving money for a few months so I could blow some on a vacation. I'll turn in my Burner Card.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by BBadger » Tue May 03, 2016 8:55 pm

Chowski wrote:Yep, it looks like the worst kind of Caravansicle Krug Champagne Susan Sarandon 1%-er crap. It is Burning Man, stripped of the effort and the reward. An expensive prostitute dressed up in Burner gear, and sold to the highest bidder. I suppose what irks me is the founders are Burners (and Robot Heart)! I recently went to the Theme Camp Leadership event in San Francisco, and we were forced to sit there and listen to a woman who runs a turnkey camp for the Parasite Observer Class. Not only did she heartily defend her camp and it's commercial services, she was backed up by the BMOrg. I know they are forced to occasionally pretend to support the Ten Principles, but I can't help but feel that they are increasingly lost in the world and ethos of the TechBro Bullshit Bubble.
Holy shit... it's almost as if this were an entirely different event!

Or wait, or is it?
  • They both take place in a desert.
  • Some people and art cars who have attended Burning Man also attend FF.
  • The tickets cost about as much -- but don't sell out!
  • People camp outdoors, but often in RVs.
  • There's EDM music.
  • Robot Heart.
Are those what make Burning Man?

I don't even understand people like you. On one hand you're damning folk for not ascribing to your effort-and-reward puritan vision of the world for Burning Man. On the other, you're complaining that these people are choosing to attend some other event that is only superficially similar to Burning Man where they can do what they do. This event is not even impacting Burning Man, and is in fact may draw away the people that you consider undesirables. What's the problem here?

Do you want these people attending Burning Man instead? Do you want an event that is an actual rip-off of Burning Man?

I'm with Ano on this one: Burners can be the most insufferable douchebags. Some are like preachy religious people, as opposed to those who are content to practice what they believe.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue May 03, 2016 9:13 pm

BBadger wrote:
Do you want these people attending Burning Man instead?
That's a solid point. No I don't want the people who fly in to be pampered by paid workers and bring zero art to be at BM.
I think you've won me over.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Bless » Wed May 04, 2016 7:36 am

BBadger wrote:I don't even understand people like you. On one hand you're damning folk for not ascribing to your effort-and-reward puritan vision of the world for Burning Man. On the other, you're complaining that these people are choosing to attend some other event that is only superficially similar to Burning Man where they can do what they do. This event is not even impacting Burning Man, and is in fact may draw away the people that you consider undesirables. What's the problem here?

Do you want these people attending Burning Man instead? Do you want an event that is an actual rip-off of Burning Man?

I'm with Ano on this one: Burners can be the most insufferable douchebags. Some are like preachy religious people, as opposed to those who are content to practice what they believe.
+1 to this and Ano's comments.

People on this board complain insufferably about Robot Heart. "I wish they would leave the playa and go start their own party."

Well, guess what. They did. And, now folks are bitching and moaning about that party. Give me a fucking break.

If you don't like it, don't attend. I'm terribly sorry that it's clogging up your Facebook feed.

It's like gay marriage. If it's not for you, don't partake.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by dpsrch » Wed May 04, 2016 9:38 am

Hey Ano. Thanks for sharing your impressions.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed May 04, 2016 10:09 am

an oldie, but a goodie.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by vargaso » Wed May 04, 2016 10:47 am

Ano wrote:At least FF was honest with what it was. BM will still honk the "we're changing the world!!!" horn and the "we all radically survive!" trumpet, while both of those are expressly false.
Pretty much. And I totally agree that we should be pumping Further Future as much as possible, it really does seem like a better fit for the PnP folks than Burning Man. Maybe some will start choosing FF over BM. That would be fantastic for both sides.

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Lonesomebri » Wed May 04, 2016 11:39 am

Some Burners can be insufferable, while others are born serfs.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed May 04, 2016 2:46 pm

You could also just not go to threads where people are complaining about this site providing search hits for that event.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by BBadger » Wed May 04, 2016 3:47 pm

Or better yet, hype it up and/or frame it as a viable alternative (but not equivalent) so people can go there instead.

I'm sure there are lots of people who could deal without all the hassle surrounding preparing for BM, the caustic environment, the long lines, the lack of vendors, scrambling to find tickets that may never materialize, etc. If you're just weekender that wants to dance around at sound camps, why even bother with the rest of Burning Man?

People can get their fix/experience/bucket of camping in the desert, listening to EDM music, dressing up in funny clothing, hanging around mutant vehicles -- with even the ability to buy what they need at the event rather than truck it in. I think that's what a lot of people "get" out of going to BM. So lets have a separate event that caters to those specific wants.

Leave this event to all the crazies who are willing to haul their stuff to a dusty, corrosive environment to have it ruined, wait in lines for hours to enter and leave, sleep in shanties, drag stuff to the middle of nowhere to give away, not have access to buy anything but ice and coffee, shit in outhouses, wreck their hands, build art for a week only to rip it down again or burn it away, etc. -- and pay for the benefit.
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by vargaso » Wed May 04, 2016 4:50 pm

BBadger wrote:Or better yet, hype it up and/or frame it as a viable alternative (but not equivalent) so people can go there instead.

I'm sure there are lots of people who could deal without all the hassle surrounding preparing for BM, the caustic environment, the long lines, the lack of vendors, scrambling to find tickets that may never materialize, etc. If you're just weekender that wants to dance around at sound camps, why even bother with the rest of Burning Man?

People can get their fix/experience/bucket of camping in the desert, listening to EDM music, dressing up in funny clothing, hanging around mutant vehicles -- with even the ability to buy what they need at the event rather than truck it in. I think that's what a lot of people "get" out of going to BM. So lets have a separate event that caters to those specific wants.

Leave this event to all the crazies who are willing to haul their stuff to a dusty, corrosive environment to have it ruined, wait in lines for hours to enter and leave, sleep in shanties, drag stuff to the middle of nowhere to give away, not have access to buy anything but ice and coffee, shit in outhouses, wreck their hands, build art for a week only to rip it down again or burn it away, etc. -- and pay for the benefit.
Seconded!

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by maladroit » Wed May 04, 2016 4:59 pm

Porta-potty turded!

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed May 04, 2016 5:21 pm

Rarely does arguing work, but in this case I think you guys have successfully changed my mind.
I don't like that event but you all made damn good points, I'm glad it exists and gives those types somewhere else to go get the experience they want to buy. It probably is good for Burning Man.
As long as it doesn't backfire and introduce even more of those types to Burning Man!
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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu May 05, 2016 5:28 am

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Re: Further Future deleted by mods?

Post by bad-and-ugly » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:49 pm

Chowski wrote: Yep, it looks like the worst kind of Caravansicle Krug Champagne Susan Sarandon 1%-er crap. It is Burning Man, stripped of the effort and the reward. An expensive prostitute dressed up in Burner gear, and sold to the highest bidder. I suppose what irks me is the founders are Burners (and Robot Heart)! I recently went to the Theme Camp Leadership event in San Francisco, and we were forced to sit there and listen to a woman who runs a turnkey camp for the Parasite Observer Class. Not only did she heartily defend her camp and it's commercial services, she was backed up by the BMOrg. I know they are forced to occasionally pretend to support the Ten Principles, but I can't help but feel that they are increasingly lost in the world and ethos of the TechBro Bullshit Bubble.
Chowski, let's hope for more events of this kind, and hope that they're very successful [= maybe then there could be an increase in a DIY attitude at Burrning Man, fewer turnkey camps and so on...
---Bernardo

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