Larry Harvey takes the bet . . . can you believe it?

jimmason · Post by **jimmason** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:00 pm

(forwarded with permission of Mr. Harvey)

Dear Chicken, Jim and the other participants of the BORG2,

On behalf of BORG1, I, Larry Harvey, accept your bet. What is more is truly more. Let a hundred flowers bloom! Let a thousand schools contend!

To enter more fully into the sporting spirit of this contest, please let me rehearse the terms of the wager. You pledge to create a "massively collaborative" art installation achieved through "radically democratic means" in an allotted district of Black Rock City, and you will accomplish this feat entirely with your own funding. The art that you produce will then be matched against our own poor efforts at supporting and creating art. Should your woo woo trump our hoo ha on the playa, I pledge to reconsider my opposition to your radically democratic curatorial methods. Should our hoo ha make your woo woo look ho hum, you commit to sit all day in a dunking booth at next year's Decompression. Let Chaos Provide!

As to those things Chaos probably won't provide, I'll mention fire safety, camp placement, burn scar protection, clean up and any number of other small details, including the requirements of the BLM. BORG 1 and 2 will parlay to resolve these issues. In order to assure a level playing field, both parties must agree to honor all the rules of Black Rock City (Chaos also won't provide immunity from local, State, and Federal criminal laws. Here, BORG2's entirely on its own). In return for this cooperation, BORG1 will provide BORG2 with an appropriate space in Black Rock City for both art installation and camping, and the BORG2 will be allowed access to our Internet newsletter, the Jackrabbit Speaks. From this bully pulpit the BORG2 may solicit financial support from more than 40,000 participants.

We will not be able to make our Internet ticket ordering page or our Web pages available for this purpose, however. These resources are currently dedicated to raising funds for the Black Rock Arts Foundation. This not for profit is devoted to generating artistic activities outside of Black Rock City. It funds projects that arise within our regional communities worldwide. In other words, it benefits the People in the broadest sense, and any appeal for direct funding from any single group or individual would interfere with this mission. However, the Jackrabbit Speaks is by far the single largest and most closely followed forum we possess. I'm confident that your eloquence (combined with the generous support of the 1,000 people who have already signed the We Have a Dream petition) can generate a ground swell of support for the ambitious project you propose.

I feel that the crew of BORG2 are embarking on a remarkable journey during which they will make many discoveries. All of us at BORG1 wish them greatest success in their pursuit of art, money and democracy [Note: This statement does not represent an endorsement, surety, warrant or guarantee of BORG2 or its practices, including, but not limited to its agents, officers, representatives or any other and all associates known or unknown. BORG1 assumes no legal responsibility for this entity's financial dealings, its electoral process, the past, present and future behavior of Jim Mason, or any other individual or individuals who claim they're with a band.] I'm sorry for the tone of that last statement, but I was asked by our attorneys to insert it in the text. They tell me that it's merely "boilerplate", in any case. I sincerely hope that you will reach your stated fundraising goal of $250,000 in 2005 [please refer to the previous bracketed statement], and may the best BORG win!

Larry Harvey

(details at www.borg2.org)

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:20 pm

from my perspective this is working out exactly as it should. Party A wanted something done. Burning man says 'we won't stand in your way. Do your best.' Party A now goes and tries.

there now, was that so hard?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:54 pm

Ok.. so no money directly from or through the ORG. How do you plan to raise the money? Will someone "front" the money to get it to the artists while they're building and most people haven't gotten around to donating or will it be dolled out as it comes in? What sort of accounting process will you set up to show where the money went? How do we know it'll really all going out to fund art as you say it will?

Getting people to say "yeah, I'd give money for that" and actually getting them to give money are very different things.

Just trying to get some specifics.

sparkletarte · Post by **sparkletarte** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:11 pm

What a dork.

What's more important is...there's going to be hundreds of flowers blooming on the playa next year?!

sputnik · Post by **sputnik** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:34 pm

It's really is showtime for BORG2 now. They've got almost everything they asked for, and I think they got some good concessions on the part of BORG1. The money part was clearly something that BORG1 couldn't get involved with based on their legal status. It'll be interesting to follow this along.

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:35 pm

Well, we're either going to see a hundred flowers bloom, or we're going to see a spectacular train wreck. I just hope nobody's cheering for the train wreck. On the other hand, the image of Larry winding up and pitching (I'd estimate $500 worth of balls) at the dunk tank bulls-eye while Jim looks on might be worth it.

Naah. I want BORG2 to succeed. We'll hear how to contribute in the JRS and act accordingly.

natthebat · Post by **natthebat** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:40 pm

Train wrecks are always spectacular. Maybe we should make some interactive train wreck project. A more satisfying idea then flowers blooming in my opinion. I love flowers but hell! we can be as imaginative and creative as we're capable and willing to be.

We will donate the money through our ticket purchaces (spending just a little bit more) and the money will be returned in the form of mind blowing art and experiences. It will be well worth our investment. The doors of contribution and participation have been thrown wide open for all of us. The opportunities to vote and help and create are being laid at our feet. Even the BMorg wants to see what we can do. We have 9 months to build and one week of labor and then we will take over the world HAHAHA!!!!!!!

Love Nat

III · Post by **III** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:43 pm

train wrecks *are* spectacular.

i'll note that:

>fire safety, camp placement, burn scar protection

among those things, i don't see why borg1 has to do camp placement - it seems like it could be the fly in the ointment for how borg2 can achieve their goals. (in particular, the idea that borg1 is going to do camp placement implies that borg2 will have no control over how the space inside the city is actually used, affecting how they can set up civic and art space.)

then again, this could just be the result of having been screwed by llc promises once too often...

buckethead alien · Post by **buckethead alien** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:58 pm

On the camp placement issue, I would guess that there are issues with the BLM, et. al., that need to be considered, and, if BORG Deux is going to have any size, it would certainly need to coordinate its location with the LLC. I don't automatically see this as a negative.

Given Jim's enthusiam for site architecture, there might be a chance to apply some of the principles that were talked about on the other thread. This is very good news--and not just in terms of art.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:33 pm

jimmason wrote:(forwarded with permission of Mr. Harvey)
Let a hundred flowers bloom!

It is two years since the policy of “A hundred flowers will bloom” was launched in China (May, 1957).

This campaign in its way revealed, better than anything else, the real social and political character of Mao’s China.

The “hundred flowers” campaign was launched largely as an after-effect of the Hungarian revolution. Mao saw to what extent a so-called Communist regime can become isolated from the people and found it advisable to allow popular criticism to be vented in order to prevent a social explosion.

Mao made a sharp attack on “bureaucratism” and stressed the need to deal carefully and patiently with “contradictions among the people” and between the “people and the leadership.” The Communist leaders deferred to the new. spirit of the “hundred flowers policy to invite all organizations and individuals to join with the Communists in open and frank criticism of all the deficiencies of the Party activities, especially of the three “evils of bureaucratism, sectarianism and subjectivism.” Assurances were given th4t no action would be taken against the critics, and that the movement would be carried out “as gently as a breeze or a fine rain” (New China News Agency, April 30, 1957).

As we shall see presently, despite these pledges, a bare month passed before the movement to cleanse the Party suddenly turned into a campaign to crush the critics.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/w ... nawilt.htm
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ch ... lowers.htm

make sure you know what you are asking for.
you may actually get it.

TheJudge · Post by **TheJudge** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:49 am

Did this really come from Larry? It seems a litttle too concisefor his style.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:14 am

The Judge, you of all people missed the one word....Attorneys

TheJudge · Post by **TheJudge** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:19 am

ibdave wrote:The Judge, you of all people missed the one word....Attorneys

Until I see at least 2500 words from Larry in the next JRS, I'm calling bullshit.

sputnik · Post by **sputnik** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:17 am

It's not on either web site yet, but it is still early in the morning on the west coast, and this was sent at 5pm PST yesterday.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:38 am

Okay, who do I make the check out to and where do I send it?

sputnik · Post by **sputnik** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:56 am

geekster wrote:Okay, who do I make the check out to and where do I send it?

Go right to their website. There is a paypal link. Not sure where's checks go to. I hope they have their financial plans ready 'cause if they get a shitload of money someone will have to declare it on their taxes.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:23 pm

Just to be fair ... I will make a donation to both ... borg2 and blackrock arts foundation. Same for both.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:36 pm

I'm feeling icky...

I feel like I'm being forced to choose sides...

It's like having two friends left when you're choosing teams for kickball... which one do you choose?

Yuk.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:49 pm

GuinivereElise wrote:I'm feeling icky...

I feel like I'm being forced to choose sides...
It's like having two friends left when you're choosing teams for kickball... which one do you choose?

Yuk.

the one that helps you WIN, dammit.

or the one that buys the most conciliatory beers

i guess it depends on your priorities... winning or beer?

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:58 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
GuinivereElise wrote:I'm feeling icky...

I feel like I'm being forced to choose sides...
It's like having two friends left when you're choosing teams for kickball... which one do you choose?

Yuk.
the one that helps you WIN, dammit.

or the one that buys the most conciliatory beers

i guess it depends on your priorities... winning or beer?

Maybe I'll just abstain... I can be in charge of everyone's water, or something. Or maybe first aid...

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:07 pm

Well, I figure nobody in borg2 space is going to spend their entire time within the confines of that space, are they? I don't see it as being "forced to choose" at all. I see it as a community within a community, much like being part of a village only on a larger scale. I think. And besides, it has already had a good impact. I probably wouldn't have given BRAF a separate contribution this year and here I am getting ready to give them money. I want to BRAF suffer from a lack of funds because of BORG2, I don't think people need to choose, but I am very interested in seeing what BORG2 can do so I will give them something to do it with (a little of my heard earned) and will give BRAF (if only it was the Black Arts Rock Foundation) the same amount and see what THEY do with it too.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:12 pm

I see your point, geekie, I really do...

but I still feel yucky about it.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:12 pm

maybe it's just because I don't like gambling...

sputnik · Post by **sputnik** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:38 pm

Last year I donated $10 to help camp videogasm make their way. I also invested a lot of cash in my camp (mostly booze), and I invested in BRAF just cause I didn't have a choice. This really isn't much different. If you believe in it, you should donate. If not then don't.

I understand that you feel yucky about it though.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:38 pm

Alright, bets' on. I'll be sending the Borg2 my donation (as soon as I figure out this PayPal thingy)...

...and I was thinking of the propane pipe organ for 2006 (really hoping this one makes it down next year...)

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:37 pm

GuinivereElise wrote:maybe it's just because I don't like gambling...

Ahh, okay, I hadn't thought about it that way. I thought of it more in terms of an investment, which is also a gamble of sorts, I suppose. In this case I expect the positives to outweigh the negatives. Even if Borg2 aren't as successful as they would want to be I am sure everyone is going to learn a lot.

But really, it is more like a peep-show for me than gambling. I am not expecting to "win" anything, I am curious to see how they do ... I want to see this thing come off and if they don't get enough money they won't be able to do it. So ...

I give a little bit to each side and see what they produce, more out of satisfying my curiosity than out of trying to get anything.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:31 pm

GuinivereElise wrote:I'm feeling icky...

I feel like I'm being forced to choose sides...

It's like having two friends left when you're choosing teams for kickball... which one do you choose?

Yuk.

I'm saving my money for whatever it is I choose to do, but I wish them all the best. If I am going to give money to an artist, I'd like to have some idea of their vision instead of them just saying, "trust me, I'm an artist!"

On the other hand, all those donations coing in ... how can I get a taste?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:54 pm

GuinivereElise wrote:It's like having two friends left when you're choosing teams for kickball... which one do you choose?

avoid being on the receiving end, the one with the strongest arm

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:03 pm

hi,

if you give me money I will PM you my big art idea. I need about 10K. No, really.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:31 pm

LOL, I am NOT talking about a huge sum, I have a family of 5 to feed in Silicon Valley ... but ... Stuart, I wouldn't be put off donating to you either, or maybe you could get a grant from borg2.

Actually, my art this year is going to be a bit obscure and not visual for the most part though there is a visual component. Also, I am going to need to develop the technical ability to pull it off. The first think I need to do is start playing with sampling.

Jeez, why does all this borg1 and borg2 stuff remind me of Dr. Seuss?