A trust fund-baby like Chicken John has no chance against...

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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DarrylVanRhey
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A trust fund-baby like Chicken John has no chance against...

Post by DarrylVanRhey » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:10 pm

...a crafty hustler like Larry Harvey. Already, Larry has managed to get Chicken and Jim to give up any hope of securing a more equitable share of Burning Man profits for its artists, to submit to BMORG's bureacracy, and basically to put themselves in a position where the success of their venture will depend completely on the goodwill of Larry and his cohorts.

I don't for one moment think that Larry has any intention of helping Chicken and Jim succeed. My guess is that he accepted the wager because not doing so would have made him look like an asshole (the bad PR that a Burning Man artists' strike would have engendered would have been horrendous). But who doesn't think that he and his cronies will now start doing everything they can to sabotage BORG2? Imagine how upset they must be that the little people dared challenge them! You can expect one bureaucratic hurdle after another to be thrown in Chicken and Jim's way until they give up. You can also expect the same kind of smear campaign to be directed against them as was directed against John Law after the 1996 event, as was directed against the ranchers who leased Burning Man land in 1997, and so on.

But let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that Chicken and Jim somehow manage to pull it off. Guess what Larry will do? He'll do what he has always done with other people's contributions to Burning Man: take all the credit for them. If BORG2 is a success, you can bet that Larry will be posing for the media in front of it, while Chicken and Jim are running around, out of view of the cameras, doing all the work. Remember: Larry has no vision (his writings are just tired assemblages of other people's not-very-good ideas, and most of the things that made Burning Man so special--its desert location, its theme camps, etc.--were thought up by other people), but he has a burning desire for fame. After all, who but an obscenely self-promoting egotist would publish interviews with himself in which his interlocutor is none other than an anagram of his own name?

Don't get me wrong: I admire Larry's single-minded desire for fame and fortune, and I believe that his event provides a useful outlet for the sheeplike groupthinkers (Isotopia, Technopatra, etc.) who inhabit the eplaya, and who otherwise would be fanatical followers of some other, more dangerous cult or leader. But I really do think that Chicken could find a better use for his time and his inherited wealth than pissing them away on Burning Man. He's just picked a battle he's going to lose. Badly.

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:56 pm

gee, THAT was weird!
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zzberlin
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Post by zzberlin » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:41 pm

Wow, now tell us what you really think, Mr. Van Rhey!

Why are you so pissed off at Larry? Your personal bias is showing.

And calling Isotopia a sheep-like thinker? Why that's just ridiculous.

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PurpleKoosh
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Post by PurpleKoosh » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:19 pm

My, what lovely socks you have, Mr. Anagram....
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geekster
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Post by geekster » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:25 pm

KOOSH!

Nice to see you!
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PurpleKoosh
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Post by PurpleKoosh » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:29 pm

*dimple* Thanks. I've been lurking in the kaffeehaus, but just haven't had much to say the last few days.
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zzberlin
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Post by zzberlin » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:51 am

Interesting, I hadn't noticed the anagram before!

But I've seen the DVR moniker post elsewhere, just trying to remember where...

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Post by zzberlin » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:53 am

Unfortunately, the old eplaya is down:

http://oldbbs.burningman.com/

Or I'd do a search there for prior comments of DVR.

chineseobelisk
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Post by chineseobelisk » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:53 am

ya, but HE started it!
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III
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Post by III » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:25 am

dvr is larry's usual nom de plume for his newsletter "interviews"

my problem (as usual) with these posts is that they contain a whole lot of truth, but with enough bile thrown in to completely undermine the valid points that could be made.

at this point, i don't even feel like teasing out the parts that i support from the rest of the crap. i know it sounds like ravings of a single disgruntled ex, but there are quite a few people out there who would agree with the kernel of that message, if not the tone in which it was delivered.

(p.s. my guess is that it's a return of wspr, trying to be more moderate. it's about the right time of year. i could be wrong though - as i said there's a good bunch of people who would share that sentiment.)
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technopatra
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here we go again...

Post by technopatra » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:54 am

Burning Man has changed over time, just as all of us have. Posters like DVR yearn for glory days which do not exist for the majority of the current burn community. They rail against past ghosts and feelings of impotence that something, somewhere, did not go their way, and they feel betrayed. They can not move past their own bitterness and move on with their lives. Perhaps they have earned their attitudes, I really don't doubt it but I couldn't say. But if all they are willing to put on the table is this same old tired litany of complaints with nothing else to offer, then I don't care, either.

Why should I accept any of DVR's experience when my own experience with the event, the Project, and Larry himself is totally counter to it?

I like Larry. He is a friend. I know how deeply he cares about what he's doing. I know how difficult his position is. I know how hard he works. I unabashedly love and respect him for the conversations we have had, his sense of humor, his moral support of my projects, and his enthusiasm. I thinkn Larry's a blast, and a decent, imperfect human being. Oh wait, there I go groupthinking again.

Jim and Chicken have figured out a way to channel their (exasperation, outrage, sadness, feelings of betrayal, rage) into something that is ultimately positive for everyone. That is because they are creative thinkers and passionate artists who put their time, money, egos, hearts and souls where their mouths are. They are driven by real concern and care for the events and the experience of Burning Man.

And hello? Jim & Chicken got pretty much exactly what they wanted - to make a spectacle, get folks riled up, and then make them put their energy, passion & money where their mouths are. The rest are just details they are actively looking for other people to deal with.

The bet is as much with the community as with Larry, get it?

Jim & Chicken already won. Larry already won. Everybody but DVR wins.

Now how about some MAYO on that old, tired, bile?

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regynalonglank
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Post by regynalonglank » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:58 am

and its technopatra with a tko in the first round!

*grabs techno's hand and parades her around, fist held high!*

shabizzle, manizzle - this grrl's on fiyah :)
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/ \

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MoisturePup
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Re: here we go again...

Post by MoisturePup » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:38 am

technopatra wrote:
Jim and Chicken have figured out a way to channel their (exasperation, outrage, sadness, feelings of betrayal, rage) into something that is ultimately positive for everyone. That is because they are creative thinkers and passionate artists who put their time, money, egos, hearts and souls where their mouths are. They are driven by real concern and care for the events and the experience of Burning Man.
Jim and Chicken are the Ayn Rands of Playa Art.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:03 pm

...a crafty hustler like Larry Harvey. Already, Larry has managed to get Chicken and Jim to give up any hope of securing a more equitable share of Burning Man profits for its artists, to submit to BMORG's bureacracy...blah, blah, blah...
Prehensile butt cheeks? Who'd a thought someone could type with their ass?

rogue agent
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anagrams

Post by rogue agent » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:27 am

VERY DRY HARLAN
DARN HARRY LEVY
HA LARRY DR ENVY
HAL RAN VERY DRY

RA

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Jordan 10-E
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Post by Jordan 10-E » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:37 am

This is obviously a pre-emptive argument that will be held in reserve for use at a later time, should it become necessary.

Beware everyone, if the BORG2 piece-meal collaboration doesn't turn out to provide the "democracy" it supposedly will create, or if they don't raise $250,000, or whatever else, it is Larry/BM's fault.

Hope we are all clear on this.
10E

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:03 am

Or it might be the fault of weak booze ... or maybe it will be the fault of low water pressure ... or maybe it will be the fault of burner malaise ... or maybe, just maybe it will fucking KICK ASS. Already BORG2 is reaching out and getting new blood involved. Like this group from New York that has decided to run for Curator .... http://www.madagascarinstitute.com/

250K is a goal, BORG2 might well surpass it, it might not reach it, but people are fired up and are planning some kick-ass stuff. They don't need the slithering slugs of snuggledom .... they have ACTION.

Feel free to just stand there and watch.
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Bob
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Post by Bob » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:10 am

We live to fail spectacularly, right in front of your camp.
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Jordan 10-E
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Post by Jordan 10-E » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:59 am

Hey, I don't think you will "fail". I think it should be good to see what you guys do. I strongly disagreed how all this stuff started, with it's acrimonious tone and all, but looks like a ball is rolling, so the more power to you. Hopefully, there is a great showing of art all around the playa this year from many quarters. I honestly wish the BORG2 great success, despite the fact that I will not be part of your orgainzation.

All I was doing is stating a pre-emptive argument to this posters pre-emptive argument, which partially says that if in the future there IS some sort of "failure" on BORG2's part it will be Larry's fault.

That's all.
10E

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:56 pm

So, the only playa artist are in the bay area? If larry knuckels under to chicken\jim Will this mean he is stiffing the "world artist"? BMorg should get there colective heads out of the bay araes ass. Then take a look at the artist out in the real world.
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geekster
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Post by geekster » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:57 pm

Jordon 10-E,

I think the original post ment to say Larry would get BLAMED for failure no matter what the true failure is and I disagree with that for several reasons.

The main and most important reason is that Larry CAN'T be blamed for failure because he has given BORG2 what it has asked for. The rest is squarely on the shoulders of BORG2 and they are keenly aware of it. The beauty of their model is that if they fail, they know EXACTLY who to blame. That person lives in our bathroom mirrors.

It is amazing that BORG2 has art curators talking about things like getting art to the playa through collaborative shipping containers placed GLOBALLY. Europe, Asia, East coast, wherever there is a need and there are resources. Get your project to the regional container and it will arrive on the playa and your art will be part of the event. These are wonderful concepts that reach out far from San Francisco Bay. It is about getting people together, reduce duplications of effort, finding ways to pool resources and get shit done.

The offices have not yet even been filled (elections are coming soon, sign up on the mailing list to vote) and already some outstanding ideas are being put forward to get more projects to the playa. It has started people THINKING again. Reinventing various aspects of what it takes to produce such an event is what it is about.

Yeah, it started off with piss and vinegar and that got people to notice, to listen, to suggest, and soon a ball started rolling. It says two main things. One is that people were looking for a way to get involved and have found a way with BORG2 and it also says that Chicken shouldn't talk to the press. So far all I have contributed is hot air and some cash. I expect to put a lot of personal time and effort in over this summer and I think many others are too. This year really IS going to be better.
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