shouldnt all bicycles be required to have lights?

pyro gyro · Post by **pyro gyro** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:33 am

I almost got ran into several times by lightless bicycles this year. i had several close calls.I think since there are so many damn rules already pertaining to ART CARS , why not have some safety rules for bicycles too? It was just plain crazy having people riding around especially this year with no moon and no lights..whatdaya think?

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:37 am

Yes, I think everyone agrees on that. Also pedestrians should have light on those moonless nights, especially those wearing dark cloths!

People going around with no light and expecting to be seen are just plain irresponsible. And there were way too many irresponsible people on the playa this year.

Catblack · Post by **Catblack** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:56 am

Tristan wrote:People going around with no light and expecting to be seen are just plain irresponsible. And there were way too many irresponsible people on the playa this year.

How many is way too many? Is there a check box on the census for 'irresponsible'? The problem is when you start saying things like

Tristan wrote:Yes, I think everyone agrees on that. Also pedestrians should have light on those moonless nights, especially those wearing dark cloths!

You enter the realm of saying other people 'should do this', when really, the only thing they should have done is read the back of their ticket.

If you don't have a light at night, YOU ARE A SPEED BUMP!

That said, I must mention that when one is tripping, one's night vision can be excellent, just watch out for the hallucinations, they hurt.

And lastly, never, ever forget, no one on the Playa is "Plain Irresponsible" -- We are all Uniquely Irresponsible, each in our own special way. I urge you to embrace your inner Irresponsiblity, Tristan, which will then glow like a magic halo around you on dark moonless playa nights!

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:17 am

since there are so many damn rules already pertaining to ART CARS , why not have some safety rules for bicycles too?

Looks like you've identified a problem that's gotten your hackles up. Usually that's a starting point for a solution.

Suggestion: If you're so damn worried about getting hit by bikes maybe you might wanna consider taping a few headlights and some glo wire to your ass rather than suggesting ways for someone else to deal with your safety or your concerns.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:26 am

I think we should all have chips implanted so that the rangers can keep better track of us and a strobelight should be glued to our foreheads so we can always be seen. I also think there should be a Committee of Public Participation and anyone not seen living up to the committee's standards should be stoned to death. Costumes would, of course, be mandatory.

Of course we'll all have to bring in our own rocks.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:41 am

I think there should be porta-potty monitors to ensure proper wiping, aim and post-elimination clean-up rituals.

I think BRC needs stricter zoning.

I think more selective enforcment of the noise ordinance would be A Good Thing(tm).

I think non-conforming art should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

I think it is wise to wear blinky lights when strolling at night on the playa.

I think a phsysical response to being hit by a bike is appropriate.

I think the Org should do more to stamp out thought crime.

I think oral sex for rangers should be mantadory, they work so hard for our safety.

I think we should all abdicate responsibility to those who know better.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:24 am

step 0: read your ticket.

step 1: light yourself up.

step 2: pay attention.

step 3: move out of the way when the art car or bike is about to hit you.

step 4: repeat.

(and then do a search on the phrase "enchanted rebar forest")

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:30 am

genghis wrote:step 1: light yourself up.

step 2: pay attention.

step 3: move out of the way when the art car or bike is about to hit you.

step 4: repeat.

(and then do a search on the phrase "enchanted rebar forest")

Most of these folks screaming for yet more rules have a great place for a strobelight: right at the top of their pointy heads.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:34 am

casnimot wrote:Most of these folks screaming for yet more rules have a great place for a strobelight: right at the top of their pointy heads.

yeah, but they'd have to drop trou to install it

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:39 am

genghis wrote:
casnimot wrote:Most of these folks screaming for yet more rules have a great place for a strobelight: right at the top of their pointy heads.
yeah, but they'd have to drop trou to install it :P

Well, I meant their craniums, but if you want to call 'em needle-dicks, I won't protest.

Wimmen may object, though.

Jane Eric · Post by **Jane Eric** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:45 am

(and then do a search on the phrase "enchanted rebar forest")

Tsk. All that excellent data from the old e-playa is knowledge management mining unretrievable at this time.

Don't even get me started about grey-water.

Drift. hah!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:47 am

casnimot wrote: Well, I meant their craniums

so did i...i was implying that said crania could only be found with two hands and a doctor with a flashlight

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:47 am

Jane Eric wrote:
(and then do a search on the phrase "enchanted rebar forest")
Don't even get me started about grey-water.

Hey...

That's my pet peeve...

bastard

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:49 am

genghis wrote:
casnimot wrote: Well, I meant their craniums
so did i...i was implying that said crania could only be found with two hands and a doctor with a flashlight

LOL! Missed it, thanks for the, ah, enlightenment, think I better swill more coffee.

mugwort · Post by **mugwort** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:29 am

Bicycle headlights aren't essential (unless the rider is careless), but some sort of glowing thing really is needed for safety.

My bike didn't have a headlight; I was able to manage just fine by the combination of moonlight and my glowing costume. At times, that meant slowing to a walking pace, but I was always able to see and avoid the dark spots from pissed-on playa (just in case they were something else).

If somebody's riding so fast that they run into objects, they're going way too fast! There's no need to be in that much of a hurry -- or if you are, use a good headlight!

The only scary things I encountered while riding on the playa were bikes with no light whatsoever. Pedestrians move slowly, so they're easy to spot and avoid in time. But bikes (and art cars) move fast enough that we need to be able to adjust course and speed to miss each other.

Next time I'll make sure my playa bike has a headlight, so I can ride at full speed. But it'd be excessive to try to enforce a headlight rule -- try instead to get them to slow down, and to carry glowsticks. IMHO

Hotspur · Post by **Hotspur** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:11 pm

I've said this many times, and I'm sure I'll say it again.

More than once this year, I on my bike with at least four lights (headlamp, back glowstick, front blinky, and wheel spoke glow) almost colided with an unlit bicycle going perpendicular to my path.

Once the guy gave me that "fuck you" glare, too, after I skidded to a stop. Excuse me? You're the one without a freakin' light on!

There's almost nothing you can do to protect yourself from this kind of idiot. Coming out of your peripheral vision, fast, dark, unlit, not watching where you're going.

"Read the back of your ticket" doesn't quite cover it, because there's a limit to how much I can do to protect myself from somebody else's idiocy.

I consider all the browbeating I do during the year on ePlaya about lights to be part of protecting myself on playa. It's a proactive measure to protect myself, just like putting a light on my bike is. Because there's not a lot else I can do. Suggestions like the original posters to mandate lights are the same thing: people thinking proactively about how they can keep themselves safe on the playa. This is what everyone should be doing.

I honestly don't know what else to do, although I'm open to suggestions.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:11 am

End such encounters with a gift of glow sticks. A few words, ie "Wow, lucky I wasn't driving. You coulda been a MOOP pancake." Play it pretty innocent, though.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:24 am

I also found it helpful to have a small flashlight (I always carry one for the JOTS at night) that I would use to point at the ground around bicyclists without light (obviously bad idea to shine in their eyes). This would not only alert my companions to their presence, it would alert them to OUR presence. Most often they would then veer away from us. Some would complain, but I would reply that since they choose to not use a light, I was just protecting myself from their stupidity (I also gave out at least one blinky light per night from the many on my Playa hat).

skagg · Post by **skagg** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:08 pm

Shouldnt all sniveling crybabies, bed wetters and premature ejaculators be required to wear diapers?

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:21 pm

Wow, skagg... lovely way with words there and without adding to the conversation in the least bit. You win the Lydia Love Most Unpleasant New Poster of The Day Award!

Cherish it.

Anywho - I think many many people would dig their heels in at the idea of more regulations. I sure as hell would.

Me, I make sure I light the way ahead of me and occaisionally yell out "If you are unlit I cannot see you!" or "I dub thee Sir Speedbump, oh unlit one!"

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:09 pm

Lydia Love said:

"I dub thee Sir Speedbump, oh unlit one!"

H'mm. I like it, it has a nice ring to it. Mind if I use that?

It's even appropriate for my Werewolf character to sing out, albeit with a Spanish accent. "Ju be Sir Speed Bump, estupido Mahnkey!"

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:31 pm

Seriously though, my character is an arrogant lil' bitch and she wouldn't care if someone tried to commit suicide in front of her. She's seen that and worse.

I, on the other hand, <i>do</i> care. It'd take some serious shit to get me to where I so much as thought about killing someone and I certainly don't want to get hijacked into someone's suicide attempt.

It's odd that we yelp and wail when someone gets violently robbed or raped at the event, but when one of us proposes a solution to a deadly accident waiting to happen, the goddam fine print on the ticket is quoted and everyone snarls about too many rules already.

Remember the girl who jumped off the moving art car out by the Temple last year, and went scrunch? Yeah, she did win the Darwin Award. Yeah, it was entirely her fault. I still cried.

Go on, tell me you'd just quote the ticket and fly merrily on if some unlit twerp jumped out in front of you and got hammered by <u>your</u> vehicle. Go ahead! Even Piss Clear recommended that lit riders heckle and catcall the unlit.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:45 pm

I absolutely believe people should be lit at night. Year after year I've asked people to put some lights on.

I absolutely think this should be a matter of common fucking sense and not a regulation.

1. Who enforces this regulation, eh?

2. How is this regulation enforced?

I heckle, I catcall. I give out extra blinky things... and I would prefer that the regulations not come pouring in at every hint of risk. I would hate it if I smacked in to someone on my bike. I'd hate it more if they were hurt. Thus I go slow, go lit and yell a lot.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:05 pm

I dunno really.

I choose to have a light on my bike when riding. I don't like to have one on when walking - especially on open playa. Granted I carry one in case I need it. But I never need it. Lights are useful but its nice to get away from them. I get a little overwhelmed with blinky things at times.

Art cars usually are & should be going slow enough to get out of the way of.

I really like assuming risk for my own safety since I feel capable of taking care of myself & my decisions to be lit or unlit as necessary. I think requesting lights on others is assuming responsiblity for anothers safety - which is great if thats what you want to do. Personally, I don't think it's necessary or necessarily advisable.

I understand your point though, D. When I'm at home I get so mad at pedestrians that stand far out into the street on a corner I'm turning in my car - or when they jump out between parked cars in the middle of a street 10 yards from the nearest crosswalk - I don't want to kill anyone either.

But still, in this case I guess the only thing I see a point in getting upset over is that you could get hurt when you hit them.

I accept that people get hurt. I have a kick ass first aid kit. I'm prepared. I'll be sad but ready if something goes down. But I'm ok with people doing stupid stuff & getting hurt - its their choice. (and no I'm not just being an ass - I really do think its ok for people to get hurt.)

I don't think there needs to be full compliance lighting.

And I don't like glow sticks. (ok now I'm being an ass.)

kisses -

k./pets.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:07 pm

ps - I have a neato stylish ferdorah that has a built in light - easier to see rebar with than a bike light & has a dimmer & can be turned off. I recommend making one

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:41 am

I don't really have a problem with unlit pedestrians on the playa or esplanade but it sure as hell helps on the back streets at 3am. I just about ran over someone on the way to the pots a couple of times.

Actuallly, every time I about slammed someone, they were in black ... so ... if you are wearing BLACK at NIGHT ... (and here comes the clue part) it is HARD TO SEE YOU. Please, if you dont want to use a light, try some white accents here and there just to make it almost possible to maybe see you in time to hit the brakes, okay?

chineseobelisk · Post by **chineseobelisk** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:03 pm

hmm...wasn't the moon out every night?

R.A.F.T.O.W.

(Rules are for the other world) take responsibility.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:09 pm

Yeah, the moon helped on the playa and the esplanade was rather well lit but some of the back streets were darker due to the shadows cast by various structures and the like. In black, in a shadow, at night you are fucking HARD to see.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:13 pm

Also, there will be no moon in 2005 at all. It will be coming up on New Moon (Man burn will be the day of new moon).

Hotspur · Post by **Hotspur** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:49 pm

Pets...

I don't have a problem with people doing stupid things that may result in THEM getting hurt. That's their perogative.

Where I draw the line is when they start doing stupid things that may result in ME getting hurt.

I'd like to believe I take every reasonable precaution -- and yet I've still had some very close calls because of other's idiocy. You should have all the right to put yourself at risk, but the moment you start putting me at risk, then it's my business, too.

I don't have a huge problem with unlit pedestrians (although I think they're being stupid). When I'm on my bike I SHOULD be able to stop in time to avoid any sort of collision. (Although given the visibility conditions on the playa, that may not always be the case -- the combination of light and dark, and of rapidly changing brightness conditions, will fool your eye into thinking you see better than you do).

As a pedestrian, I consider being unlit to be an unacceptable risk. I don't care if the bicyclist who hits me is 100% in the wrong -- the goal is to have a fun Burning Man, not to end up in the hospital with a nice feeling of moral superiority. Others may see this equation differently, and that's fine.

But with bicycles, the risk to others is much, much greater, and it starts to become about more than your right to risk your own health.

shouldnt all bicycles be required to have lights?

shouldnt all bicycles be required to have lights?

bicycles and lights