Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

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forty_eight
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by forty_eight » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Pershing County Sheriff false flag action to justify more LEOs next year?

lol ;-)

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by GreyCoyote » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:08 pm

forty_eight wrote:Pershing County Sheriff false flag action to justify more LEOs next year?

lol ;-)
Conspiracy, for the win! Yes! :mrgreen:
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by TD-2441 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:08 am

These photos just make me eye roll:





Table runners? Tea lights?

It just seems too....clean, too organised, no dust, too shiny, TOO luxurious :S I'd feel like I cooldn't sit down anywhere if I visited as I'd leave dusty bum-marks everywhere :D I liked living in the dust and cooking basic food and sleeping in a dusty sleeping bag with earplugs in, I liked having the conveniences of modern life stripped away from me for a week, but that's just me. I'd feel like I was somehow cheating if I camped somewhere this luxurious.
"I bought a cactus. A week later it died. And I got depressed, because I thought, Damn. I am less nurturing than a desert". - Demetri Martin

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Traveller in Time
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Traveller in Time » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:10 am

It seems both sides have (had?) a problem interpreting the principles.

Anyway Caveat Magister on the topic.

There should be a mind search at the gate, preventing any bad thoughts being smuggled into the city.
Dreaming a temporary world improving the default world



Not expressing yourself but embracing all other expressions is The Challenge




...I can make anything I can imagine . . . I just can't make _some_ things happen



Have some Free will

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:56 pm

There's nothing wrong with putting up a nice lounge. But there needs to be an end to plug-n-play.
That will screw many of the people who fly in from far away, but we either let the event be completely ruined, or we don't.

I think the out-of-touch leadership will let it be ruined.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by FlyingMonkey » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:29 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:There's nothing wrong with putting up a nice lounge. But there needs to be an end to plug-n-play.
That will screw many of the people who fly in from far away, but we either let the event be completely ruined, or we don't.

I think the out-of-touch leadership will let it be ruined.
I fear you are correct Sir. I have gone from thinking "Gee, I wish I had heard of Burning Man 10 years ago" to "Gee, I hope Burning Man is still worth going to in 10 years".

This makes me sad.
In your wildest dreams you can not imagine the marvelous SURPRISES that await YOU.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:43 pm

The people at the shops in Cedarville (last real town before playa from the north) all said they noticed a very pronounced difference in the type of people coming through this year. And it wasn't a change for the better.
This bullshit full-accommodations shit people are providing is really ruining the tone of the event.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

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some seeing eye
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:53 pm

Blasting out luxury (or celebrity for that matter) on social media is a huge mistake for PnP camps and their minions.

Do camps with Googler's blast out their presence at the event? No. Because once it it is out, you cannot control how it is contextualized, forever. At least the swingers camp had the sense to leave very little trace on the Internet.

As has been mentioned there is a very bad path for the event to go with bodyguards and security guards.

As for White Ocean, I think it is fine to have private areas in exchange for the music. But flaunting luxury at Burning Man in today's world works against them. And pissing off people enough to get vandalized, than deciding in a playa-addled mental condition to publicize it on social media has drawn attention to them that works against their interests.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Slug
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Slug » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:46 pm

I have acknowledge from the start that I cannot be 'reasonable' about this nor can I reconcile my opposing feelings.

The thinking side of me says "What they did IS NOT what Burning Man is about. At all." To me radical acceptance doesn't allow for picking & choosing what you accept; it means being ok with what other people think/believe/want even if you don't like it. EDM has a place at Burning Man; it brings a lot of genuine, participating people a lot of joy. It may not be my jam but so what? I accept it. If your camp brings happiness to hundreds of people a night, good on ya. So what the hooligans did really does not uphold those values which they seek to protect.

The emotional side of me says "FUHHHHHHhhCK W.O. Camp and everything it stands for." If you come from Norway to burn, I understand that you may need some help and joining up w/ others in a similar situation makes sense. But P-N-P camps are NOT that; they are catered and sequestered and 'curated'. A semi came through Gate on Thursday packed to the gills with chairs and tables (all of which were still in their cardboard boxes). Preeeeetty sure that truck wasn't headed to Zen as Fuck Camp. :roll: Also, that catering tent is fucking bullshit.

TL;DR: The optimist in me hopes that this brings about a (reasoned) discussion that results in a path between banning PNP's outright and ignoring their deleterious (perceived or otherwise) effects on this thing in the desert we love so much.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by 666isMONEY » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:19 pm

Hiring slaves is against the 10 Principles.

Money turns everything into a commodity.
Everything, commodity or not, is convertible into gold. Everything becomes saleable and buyable. Circulation becomes the great social retort into which everything is thrown, to come out again as crystallized gold. -- Karl Marx, Capital

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by maladroit » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:22 pm

I'm fine-tuning a personal policy. It's been sort of a pendulum swing between "who cares" and "they're doing it wrong" (for example, hiring workers on the playa, laughing at segways, etc).

These days I feel more of a vocal middle ground. Trying to sum it up: no matter what level of luxury or privilege I see on the playa, that's fine. Let them burn how they want to burn. I try not to prejudge or exclude or treat these people any differently. I saw a Segway turned into a giant giraffe neck+head and that was awesome. I hung out in a luxury RV during Exodus pulses.

But the policy isn't just keep my mouth shut no matter what. I don't care about someone's background or attitude or how dusty they are, but if they're doing something that negatively affects the playa or fellow burners, I speak up. You can't pour out your drink there. Don't throw your garbage on Esplanade, asshole. Whoa whoa there, stop trying to blast through the 10 foot burn perimeter gap here on your bike. Hey, he/she said no. Why are you the only one standing in the front row of the Man burn taking photos (he gave up halfway through the pyro display and moaned about how long it was taking).

It's not perfect because my own judgement about what is hurting the event or individuals is going to be biased, but if enough of you crusty fuckers speak up when actual harm is being done, we can educate without trying to control the direction of creativity or self expression.

You might catch a good person on a crappy day, during their one playa-asshole moment, and they'll rethink that behavior next time. Or you might be the hundredth person who cursed out a career asshole, and they won't come back next year.

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Wrath
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Wrath » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:13 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:I think the out-of-touch leadership will let it be ruined.
Speaking from experience?

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:30 am

this is just the beginning of a much wider class war.


it happens on the playa first, then it spreads to the rest of the world.


these are the "first shots fired".


we ( burning man ) are the vanguard of all things.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Sergeant Sweetleaf » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:24 am

FlyingMonkey wrote: I have gone from thinking "Gee, I wish I had heard of Burning Man 10 years ago" to "Gee, I hope Burning Man is still worth going to in 10 years".

This makes me sad.

2016 was my first Burn and it was UNREAL! I've had the same thought after learning about the Plug & Play camps. But I cannot be a hypocrite. I brought a brand new rental RV and used the AC and showered every few days. I also welcomed my nearby Burners when they needed anything, even a brief respite from the desert environment. I immersed myself in what the traditional Burn had to offer, but I am fortunate to have the resources to bring some of life's comforts to my Playa experience. I cannot say I felt guilty at all.

At the same time, I hope the growth of Burning Man does not result is a complete contamination, commercialization, and politicization of the event. It is inevitable that as things grow, they change. We can only hope the powers that be can fend off changes that truly work against the core believes of Burning Man or result in the outside world exerting their biases, influences and opinions on our secret society.
E Burnibus Unum

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Chowski
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Chowski » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:21 am

2016 was my first Burn and it was UNREAL! I've had the same thought after learning about the Plug & Play camps. But I cannot be a hypocrite. I brought a brand new rental RV and used the AC and showered every few days. I also welcomed my nearby Burners when they needed anything, even a brief respite from the desert environment. I immersed myself in what the traditional Burn had to offer, but I am fortunate to have the resources to bring some of life's comforts to my Playa experience. I cannot say I felt guilty at all.

The difference between you and White Privilege Camp is YOU brought your RV. No one is concerned about that. White Privilege rents mass RVs and provides them to non-contributing tourists who arrive with nothing, take everything, and fly away without cleaning anything.

I just looked up the MOOP maps for the past three years, and this camp got red in 2015, yellow in 2014, and yellow with multiple red spots in 2013. Not in any year have they cleaned their own fucking mess, and yet the BMORG continues to grant them front-row elite access to the event. Their paying guests do nothing for our community, trash the land and walk away with no consequences.

I cannot say how glad I am that someone did this to them. Larry and his buddies are so deeply entrenched in the SF Techbro culture of waste, privilege and community destruction, they don't even pretend to believe in the 10 principles, not even Leave No Trace.

Fuck those people. LET them fear retaliation. LET them think twice about coming to our city, They have nothing to offer, and it's time to show them the door.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by TT120 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:35 am

While I hate the big PnP camps as much as the next guy, I don't think raiding their camp and damaging their property is cool at all. In fact, that seems EXACTLY opposite of the true burner ethos. A little harmless pranking is good but these guys took it way to far. Shame on you douchebro's. VERY bad form.

That being said, I feel sorry for the people that fly in with nothing and get their limo ride to their fully equipped RV. They don't get to experience building their camp, beaming with pride when you see hundreds of dusty burners enjoying what you built and then tearing it down at the end of the week. Solid friendships are built from the hard work you do together and the obstacles you overcome together. They get none of that and therefore don't "really" experience the burn.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Sham » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:02 am

TT120 wrote:That being said, I feel sorry for the people that fly in with nothing and get their limo ride to their fully equipped RV. They don't get to experience building their camp, beaming with pride when you see hundreds of dusty burners enjoying what you built and then tearing it down at the end of the week. Solid friendships are built from the hard work you do together and the obstacles you overcome together. They get none of that and therefore don't "really" experience the burn.
This is very similar to people who travel to beautiful island destinations, then check into a "gated all-inclusive" resort for the week. They really don't get to experience the local culture unless they get a guided tour. The guests who attend the PNP's DO however get to check it off their bucket list. That's very important too. 8)

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by kittyrodriguez » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:37 am

Slaphappy wrote:Second-year burner here, who brought my 'virgin' wife this year. We had an overall blast (meltdowns and all) and a BM experience we'd dreamed of, but I can also say EVERY detracting element we encountered was related to PnP camps (which is why I'm following this thread).

1. While dancing at an EDM camp my wife saw a woman just casually throw her trash on the ground. We approached nicely and said, "excuse me I think you dropped that". The woman and her boyfriend - both so clean you could eat off of them - just glared back at us and walked away. Sure it was minor, but that level of ignorance in public was startling.
Was that woman perhaps wearing all white with a light up unicorn horn?

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:54 am

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by lucky420 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am

I'm with chowski on this
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Sparkle Horny » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:04 am

Slaphappy wrote:Second-year burner here, who brought my 'virgin' wife this year. We had an overall blast (meltdowns and all) and a BM experience we'd dreamed of, but I can also say EVERY detracting element we encountered was related to PnP camps (which is why I'm following this thread).
I would really enjoy having more new folk like you on the playa. You are a grand prize winner at burning man. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:16 am

The Big Money will entirely fuck the event up. Unfortunately, the Big Money has big money, and it will win.
The Org made a big deal about shutting down plug & play camps, but they clearly don't give a fuck.
They have been doing Burning Man a long time, and it doesn't matter anymore. Now it's a big business.
The only way to ever get back what we had is to start something else, and enjoy it before the money takes over again.
Does anyone remember when NASCAR was really cool, up to maybe the mid-'70s? LIttle guy racers flat-towed their cars - actually based on STOCK late model cars - behind station wagons across the country and raced right with the big boys, who weren't that much better off. It was Mercurys and Plymouths and Chevys battling it out. The sponsors were car makers and parts suppliers that were relative to racing.
Now it's Big Money. The superstar drivers are the equivalent of the big name DJs at BM sound stages. The cars are plastered with Vagisil and laundry detergent ads, and they no longer contain ONE SINGE part of the car they "represent". Hell, the shapes of the bodies don't even resemble what they "represent", they just wear stickers that tell you what they supposedly are. And all of them are identical. No diversity, nothing to make them unique or interesting. Now it's Non Athletic Sport Centered Around Rednecks.

Welcome to the future of Burning Man.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Dr. Pyro » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:42 am

Sham wrote: This is very similar to people who travel to beautiful island destinations, then check into a "gated all-inclusive" resort for the week.
If you had ever been to Hedonism II in Jamaica, you wouldn't leave either!

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Sham » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:46 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:
Sham wrote: This is very similar to people who travel to beautiful island destinations, then check into a "gated all-inclusive" resort for the week.
If you had ever been to Hedonism II in Jamaica, you wouldn't leave either!
I've been to Jamaica---and I wanted to leave. :roll:

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by VultureChow » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:54 am

You CAN choose to avoid that whole scene. Deep in the city at 6:30 and F, we had our own fun camp. There were so many people who stuck their dicks in the bug zapper glory hole, that we ran out of swag for it. Guys and girls twirled on our electrified stripper pole. Body shots were had, Frito Pie was served, pewter was cast and eyes damaged. Lucky Bastard showed up after having just bought a ticket in Reno without planning to. Grai gave him a Camelbak.

I feel like there's two burns. City burn and Playa burn. The pictures are Playa Burn: art and sculpture and MV's. Big Name DJs and huge raves. Beautiful and dramatic. Like a museum. Or arena concert.

City Burn is intimate and gritty and FUN! Maybe not awe inspiring, but personally fun and fulfilling. It's where the rest of us live. And so far it feels fine. Paris Hilton didn't come into our bar for a photoshoot. Eric was our biggest celeb of the week.

If there's a change, then I feel like it's been going on all along and only feels accelerated because of social media. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to eliminate plug n plays. There's nothing keeping an overseas burner from coming without one. They've been doing it for years.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by lucky420 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:36 pm

After working an ice shit at the 3 Thursday afternoon I took a wrong turn and went right on G street instead of straight up 3 to C. I end up at 2 $ G in a big canyon of white ocean plug and play rv's. It was weird, quiet and really boring.

I was pissed at myself that I got so turned around and ended up taking the long way back to my yurt :?
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:49 pm

lucky420 wrote:After working an ice shit at the 3 Thursday afternoon I took a wrong turn
I probably would too!
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by some seeing eye » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:50 pm

VultureChow wrote: If there's a change, then I feel like it's been going on all along and only feels accelerated because of social media.
The revolution will not be televised.

increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by lucky420 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:27 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
lucky420 wrote:After working an ice shit at the 3 Thursday afternoon I took a wrong turn
I probably would too!
Hahaha stupid iPad. Ive really got to learn to slow down and proof read.
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Post by FlyingMonkey » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:25 pm

VultureChow wrote:You CAN choose to avoid that whole scene. Deep in the city at 6:30 and F, we had our own fun camp. There were so many people who stuck their dicks in the bug zapper glory hole, that we ran out of swag for it. Guys and girls twirled on our electrified stripper pole. Body shots were had, Frito Pie was served, pewter was cast and eyes damaged. Lucky Bastard showed up after having just bought a ticket in Reno without planning to. Grai gave him a Camelbak.

I feel like there's two burns. City burn and Playa burn. The pictures are Playa Burn: art and sculpture and MV's. Big Name DJs and huge raves. Beautiful and dramatic. Like a museum. Or arena concert.

City Burn is intimate and gritty and FUN! Maybe not awe inspiring, but personally fun and fulfilling. It's where the rest of us live. And so far it feels fine. Paris Hilton didn't come into our bar for a photoshoot. Eric was our biggest celeb of the week.

If there's a change, then I feel like it's been going on all along and only feels accelerated because of social media. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to eliminate plug n plays. There's nothing keeping an overseas burner from coming without one. They've been doing it for years.
I never really thought about 2 Burns before but I have to agree. That's a neat perspective I have never considered.

But I am concerned about the future effects of PnP camps, especially if it becomes too easy for them to make a killing each year. The fact that making a profit from Burning Man which preaches Decommodification is totally fucked & the Org has done little to dissuade this behavior is troubling. I often wonder how they get so many tickets to sell to their patrons, which as far as I'm concerned is scalping. If this continues will the scarcity problem get worse? Are they buying from scalpers knowing they will in the end make a profit anyway?

I usually think Chowski's opinions are too extreme but he's spot on about this.
In your wildest dreams you can not imagine the marvelous SURPRISES that await YOU.

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