Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

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DrYes
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby DrYes » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:18 pm

Dr Helix wrote:I don't think that what's going on will continue much longer. The glitteratti will find a new "thing" to throw money at. Others will tire of the the event itself for all kinds of reasons and stop coming. Numbers will dwindle. 5-6 years from now we'll be back to 40-50 thousand people who just LOVE the event and keep coming no matter what. It's a fairly predictable cycle. You heard it here first.


I don't think so, and there has been no cycle like that in Burning Man's history. Of course people regularly tire of the event, but as long as there are more new people interested than people tiring, the demand to go will only increase.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby DrYes » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:27 pm

Raoul wrote: I would probably be marginally disappointed if the big sound camps went away, but they are such a small part of the burn for me that their disappearance wouldn't make me reconsider my decision to attend even for a second.


Getting rid of plug n' plays wouldn't get rid of all the sound camps, just ones who give the middle finger to our community.

I always cite Opulent Temple as a great example of a major soundcamp that is not a plug n' play and which is community-backed.

If you can't make it as a sound camp without charging people $17k for the week, maybe the community doesn't actually support you very strongly.

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Token
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Token » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:32 pm

Bradtem, you seem to be arguing these points like you got a horse in the race.

I'm half expecting you post a business plan and do a round of fundraising for a PnP venture.

Got a prospectus?

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby bradtem » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:20 pm

Token wrote:Bradtem, you seem to be arguing these points like you got a horse in the race.

I'm half expecting you post a business plan and do a round of fundraising for a PnP venture.

Got a prospectus?


Seriously, dude, this is how you discuss things with people? Invent bizarre motives when you don't know what to say? Since you obviously know nothing about me, the fact that you would accuse somebody of an evil agenda without knowing anything about them is sure not the playa spirit I know.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby vargaso » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:04 pm

bradtem wrote:They don't need to know where they will be -- they bring the clients in from the airport or other means. I mean it is nice to know your address in advance, but not the end of the world. If you're willing to be out there in the back streets, past 3 or 9, there is space. Look at this photo from a Tuesday, admittedly 4 years ago but if you can find some Sunday photos from this year I think it's similar.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 514%29.jpg

In particular they have taken to mapping out some "extra streets" on the 7-10pm side every year that allow expansion if the city fills, and have used them sometimes. Anyway, obviously they would like placement, but I don't think it would shut down PNP camps.


It's not possible to build a camp like White Ocean without early entry. Even if they could secure enough space after gate opening, they wouldn't be able to build the infrastructure needed to justify a five figure fee before their CUSTOMERS started arriving.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby bradtem » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:23 pm

vargaso wrote:[
It's not possible to build a camp like White Ocean without early entry. Even if they could secure enough space after gate opening, they wouldn't be able to build the infrastructure needed to justify a five figure fee before their CUSTOMERS started arriving.



Well, you say that, but on what do you base it? I've seen lots of fancy camps go up quickly. If you have the time, you don't do it very quickly, but if you don't have the time, and you are pros, it would not surprise me at all -- I've seen amazing quick-assemble temporary structures in the professional events world. The stereotype of the bucket listers is they don't show up until Friday or Saturday, but I don't see why a decent team that practiced before could not get you something pretty good by Tuesday starting Sunday morning.

But this is all to the side of another point I am making. A business that is selling "exclusive access" loves people making it harder. That's just making it more exclusive, meaning you can charge even more and get less competition.

"Hey, bucket listers, they are trying to keep you out, to make it hard for you to go to the playa in the style you deserve. Don't worry, we can take care of you. We'll get around the restrictions for you for just (bags of cash.) Camp either in our exclusive main zone with the lounge and gourmet dining area, or one of our extra-private satellite zones, just a short walk away, in your own fully stocked luxury RV"

Whatever you can think of to make it harder, they can spin to make it sound better, not worse. That's what the camps sell now -- get you into this remote, harsh place which normally requires tons of prep and time to do well -- get you into it without the hassles, in exchange for a bag of cash. The more remote, the more harsh, the more rules in the way, the more people will want their services. Nothing makes something more attractive than telling people they can't have it.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:40 am

brad tem your "observations" are wrong.


just my opinion.



go ahead, plonk me too.



ps...The Plug n Play Sound Camps are the issue.

lets deal with that frankenstein first, mmmmkay?
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby some seeing eye » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:24 am

Tourettes-coprolalia-style personal rants on social media aren't helping.
The second year phenomenon is is full force.
The other thing that is amusing is when people are compelled to harm their own cause:

"
(from https://russellgsite.wordpress.com/2016 ... ite-ocean/)

In Re: Burning Man v. White Ocean
Posted on September 12, 2016 by russellg
2016-09-04-20-21-53
by Russell Gewirtz
Last week marked my second Burning Man experience. My second “Burn.” Four days the first time, seven days the second. Both of them were intense. Both of them were mind-blowing. Both of them were among the greatest experiences of my life. And neither of them would have been possible without White Ocean.
So first, let’s explain what White Ocean is, and let’s dispel a few rumors. White Ocean was not a four-star hotel. No one ever cleaned out my trailer or made my bed. No one did my laundry. My trailer and all of my crap got just as dusty and filthy as everyone else’s. Here’s what it looked like after I tidied up.
(Messy RV photos)
White Ocean had trailers and it had yurts, pretty much the same as the rest of Black Rock. My trailer, for the record, was so close to the soundstage that it shook and vibrated to the beat until 10am, rendering it effectively useless for sleep. I made it through the week on three hours of sleep per night, mostly 9am-noon. In terms of physical endurance, this was one of the roughest weeks of my life.
White Ocean was not some hermetically sealed bubble, some cocoon that protected its denizens from the harsh realities of Black Rock City. We choked on the same dust as everyone else. When the wind blew on you, it blew on me.
White Ocean was not some exclusive VIP room behind a velvet rope. Any burner could easily find us and walk right on in, just like any other camp. Well, it’s nicer than most camps. But that’s not the point. The point is you walk in, sit down, say hi. No one ever stopped anyone or asked anyone to leave.
Is everyone at White Ocean rich? Definitely not. For one thing, I’m certainly not. At least not at the moment. I’ve been rich. I should be rich. I’ll be rich again soon. It costs a lot to stay at White Ocean. So a lot of us were guests of friends who could afford it. It’s good to have friends.
But let’s be honest. All camps are not created equal. White Ocean is luxurious by Burning Man standards. I never had to build, never had to cook, and I never had assigned clean-up duties, although some guests did. We did clean up after ourselves in the dining area, and I did clean up my own trailer. But I didn’t have to worry about the water level in my tank or the sewage in my whatever-it-is. These things were handled for me, by people who knew what they were doing and were paid to be there. And as far as I know, when they had completed their tasks they were free to experience the burn, which is great. Anyone I spoke to who was there to work, said they were loving the experience and would do it again. Some had been for years. Were it not for these people, many of us would probably never have made it to Burning Man.
Which brings us to the Ten Principles of Burning Man.
From my experience, White Ocean doesn’t seem to be in conflict with nine of them. Inside the camp, I witnessed the same expressions of generosity, openness, creativity, immediacy and inclusion that I experienced on the playa. No one ever said, “You can’t sit with us.”
I think it really comes down to the principle of Radical Self-Reliance. To be honest, we’re not perfect. The camp was assembled and disassembled by others. Our meals were cooked for us. And while we helped out to an extent, someone else did the dishes. But let’s not forget one thing: All of these “others” were still White Ocean Burners. They too came and felt the burn. And by the way, I didn’t help create any of the art on the Playa either. But I certainly did enjoy it.
The moment I left the camp, I was no different than any other burner. I had my camelbak, my lip balm, my goggles and my scarf, my crappy bike, my boots, my tin cup, and whatever clothing best anticipated the conditions I might find for the next however many hours my outing lasted. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn’t. If I ran into trouble, I didn’t pull out my White Ocean passport and pay one of the locals to transport me back to safety like some Englishman traveling through Burma. I had to rely on myself, and the kindness of fellow burners. And that was a beautiful thing.
Maybe it wasn’t radical. But it was certainly self-reliance. If the test requires 100% adherence to all ten principles, then perhaps we failed. But so would thousands of burners in plenty of camps. Frankly, I’d give us a 95/100. And that’s usually good enough.
But you know what? The day that they decided to let planes land on the playa, all of this became inevitable. First off, no one can travel in and out with all of their own food and gear on a plane. It just doesn’t work that way. Second, it brings to Burning Man some folks, like myself, who simply wouldn’t be coming otherwise. Are we different than the OG burners who preceded us? In some ways, yes. Is that such a bad thing? I don’t think so. I think that one of the things that makes Burning Man great is that it brings people together from all walks of life, (well, frankly, white people) and gives them the chance to interact in ways that simply aren’t likely in the day-to-day world. That doesn’t happen if Burning Man attracts a completely homogenous group. Camps like White Ocean, Dragonfly, Cirque Gitane, Ibiza, and many others bring some diversity. And everyone benefits from that.
Look through your pictures from the burn. See the ones where there’s some smoking hot girl posing in front of the “MAGIC” installation? She’s 5’11”, thin and sexy, wearing an Indian head-dress, black bikini, and eight-inch platform boots, and barely speaks English. She’s probably not sleeping in a tent and cooking beans over a sterno flame. Perhaps some guy flew her there with daddy’s money and put her in a nice RV in a plug and play camp. But you took a picture of her and posted it on Facebook. You want her to leave the Playa?
Last week, eighty thousand people went to Burning Man, and I’m pretty sure that most of them had an amazing time. A few people got upset. That’s all that happened.
If you’re a guy from two hours outside of Albuquerque, who works at a concrete mill, and you want to meet a Victoria’s Secret model, an international DJ, a Hollywood screenwriter (like moi, for instance), a software guru, or a Russian industrial baron, well then, White Ocean might just be the best chance that you are ever going to get. Just walk right into the so-called ‘VIP’ area behind the DJ. No one’s ever gonna stop you. Walk up to anyone and introduce yourself. You’ll get a hug, just like anywhere else on the Playa.
After that, you’re on your own. Radical Self-Reliance. Done!
"
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:01 am

This guy even claiming an ounce of self reliance is a joke.
And yes I want the manicured model posing by the Burning Man art to be gone!! We came to see the awesome art she's in front of. Models can be seen every day. Get her the fuck out of the way.
The guy's trailer was a palace and had virtually limitless water, yet in a few days it was a terrible mess - because no one else came in and picked up after him - just further proves what a piece of shit he is.
Clearly not capable of cleaning up after himself AT ALL.
Last edited by Captain Goddammit on Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby GreyCoyote » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:20 am

I dont even know where to start with that bloggers post. Its not that the blogger doesnt understand the question... its that the blogger doesnt even suspect there IS a question.

He isnt rich, but "will be soon"
He is all about being seen with beautiful people (he thinks 5'9, whippit thin and a black bikini with a headdress is the litmus test)
His trailer (that he didnt tow, service, or maintain) got dusty (oh shame!) just like "everyone else" and he (gasp) had to sweep it out as a demonstration of self-reliance.
He claims he could walk into the "private" areas and get a hug.

Clueless. Absolutely clueless. His personal metrics say it all. Never once does he talk about BRINGING IT. Or about preparation. Or gifting. He's a consumer. A friend-of-a-parasite who pays to play who wants to pontificate that HE is US.

Wrong.

Newsflash, Bro. BURNERS BRING IT. You brought nothing. Epic fail.

In contrast, I am a dead-average Burner. I drove a fucking school bus 4500 miles across three deserts, five mountain ranges, slept on the floor, nursemaided five refrigeration units and two generators the whole way, spent an obcene amount of time/money in the process, and got home just last night. The rest of my camp was the same. A guy who dragged his wife, tools and home-built MV 1600 miles just so he could gift rides and fix other folks mechanical problems. Nurses who did the nurse thing because people get hurt/stupid. Cooks to drive the nutritional fires that underpin the burn... A tarot reader who made her own deck and reinvented the entire concept of readings. An intrastructure-builder who crammed two plywood bike racks, tables, chairs into the biggest uHaul trailer his car could pull so our guests could park and sit. All of these folks are over 40, none "beautiful" by the spaklepony definition, but all damn USEFUL people who BRING IT.

There really needs to be a question asked before these second-year-blogger-type people get off the plane and proclaim themselves to be "of the Dust". That question is: "WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING"? If the answer is "money", "charm", "myself" or "real estate advice", they need to go to a Reeducation Camp run by Simon, Bri and Capt Goddammit.

And yeah... That blogger hit a nerve. Fuck his day. :mrgreen:
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby lucky420 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:22 am

The doucherie is strong with this one ^^
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby lucky420 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:23 am

lucky420 wrote:The doucherie is strong with this one ^^



I meant the blogger, not you two
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby GreyCoyote » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:24 am

lucky420 wrote:
lucky420 wrote:The doucherie is strong with this one ^^



I meant the blogger, not you two


Accurate both ways, actually. Lol! :mrgreen:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:31 am

the french aristocracy never saw it coming either.





epic cluelessness.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby lucky420 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:35 am

Well how about a group of us regular folk go on over next year. We'll go in behind the dj booth (as the author suggested) to the vip area and have a sit down for a spell. I'm sure we'll be welcomed with loving open arms.
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:45 am

lucky420 wrote:Well how about a group of us regular folk go on over next year. We'll go in behind the dj booth (as the author suggested) to the vip area and have a sit down for a spell. I'm sure we'll be welcomed with loving open arms.



i like that idea alot. maybe we can teach them something.

image.jpeg
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:51 am

"If you’re a guy from two hours outside of Albuquerque, who works at a concrete mill, and you want to meet a Victoria’s Secret model, an international DJ, a Hollywood screenwriter (like moi, for instance), a software guru, or a Russian industrial baron, well then, White Ocean might just be the best chance that you are ever going to get. "

See? White Ocean brings it. Us commoners might get to meet someone of their class! Including an apparently failing screenwriter!

Ironically, it's the art us losers built that he comes to see. In BRC that guy from the concrete mill who built something cool is the rock star. Not the currently broke screenwriter.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby VultureChow » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:01 am

That's a parody right? No one would ever be that clueless, right?

/Urge to kill, rising...
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby vargaso » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:06 am

I honestly can't believe that dude and how clueless he is but I'm glad be blogged about it to illustrate the very fucking problem. Ha. Thanks dude.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby VultureChow » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:09 am

Anyone want to join me for my new guerrilla art project? It's called Fat Girls Posing. We follow this guy around and every time he stops to enjoy the art, we strip and pose in front of it for him.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:26 am

"hollywood screenwriter"


image.jpeg





btw, his writing is so-so at best.

maybe thats why he's unemployed.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby vargaso » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:27 am

VultureChow wrote:Anyone want to join me for my new guerrilla art project? It's called Fat Girls Posing. We follow this guy around and every time he stops to enjoy the art, we strip and pose in front of it for him.


If it includes skinny, hairy, white dudes in their 40s posing, I'm in.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby vargaso » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:28 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:"hollywood screenwriter"


image.jpeg




btw, his writing is so-so at best.

maybe thats why he's unemployed.


I guess he wrote Spike Lee's Inside Man. It was decent. I just can't believe he included that bit about "Hollywood screenwriter." It's like Andy Kaufman taunting wrestling fans with "I'm from Hollywood," only this guy (apparently) isn't joking.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:33 am

i for one, certainly do not give two shits if someone is from "hollywood"...


just my personal bias.
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby vargaso » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:00 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:i for one, certainly do not give two shits if someone is from "hollywood"...


just my personal bias.


Oh I'm with you. I meant I can't believe he thinks stating he's a Hollywood screenwriter will win him any points, whereas Andy Kaufman knew it was obnoxious.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Ratty » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:05 am

VC Can I pose too? I don't have any extra flesh but it IS very old. (And kind of rearranged from the original configuration.)
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:07 am

i dug what you were laying down, i should have been more specific.



and, andy kaufman rules... 8)
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby GreyCoyote » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:07 am

Maybe the whole "writer" thing gets him pussy. You know, from the type of sparklepony who is working on her MRS degree by posing in front of art at burningman sound camps in 8-inch boots, black bikini, and a headdress.

(These idiots are breeding, folks!!!)
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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby 666isMONEY » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:08 am

I'd love to meet a Hollywood screenwriter for my Idea: a Messiah returning who will tell the truth (about climate-change, the Kennedy assassinations, 9-11, peak oil, etc.), 12, well-known disciples (an all-star cast) to back up "the truth", a new rational religion based on the uniqueness of this planet and a plan to abolish money.

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Re: Vandals Strike 2016 Sound Camp Infrastructure

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:10 am

next year it's camp feathered head-dress.

all head-dress, all the time.


if you cant beat em', make them uncomfortable as fuck...
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