Next Directions for Burning Man

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
maladroit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby maladroit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:15 pm

Admiral Fukkit wrote:That's entirely false.
"RVs" or trailers can cost a few million $$ or a few hundred $$. I've never had much money into my RVs.
Many camps, such as every camp I've been in since '00, have a mix of all types of shelters.



Yeah. I don't care about sorting people by what they own, or doing anything at all based on income status (either perks or handicaps).

Just stop making it so easy to pay someone else to figure out your survival needs.

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Jackass
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Jackass » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:22 pm

From what I understand people used to get turned away when they would show up with nothing and it appeared that they may die during the event... Or maybe that was just warning lore.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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maladroit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby maladroit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:27 pm

forty_eight wrote:It's really just a camping trip in the desert - child's play, really.


Not always. I can't be the only one sitting there with enough emergency food, water, and ratchet straps to hunker in place stranded in condition alpha for an extra week, uncomfortable that 5,000 of my neighbors brought two pairs of booty shorts and a cold pizza. It is possible for the playa to get bad enough that the National Guard just can't get there, or are stretched thin during hurricane season and have to choose between a festival where everyone was informed of the harsh conditions and to bring survival gear, or a city where people are being driven out of their homes.

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forty_eight
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby forty_eight » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:10 pm

maladroit wrote:
Not always. I can't be the only one sitting there with enough emergency food, water, and ratchet straps to hunker in place stranded in condition alpha for an extra week, uncomfortable that 5,000 of my neighbors brought two pairs of booty shorts and a cold pizza. It is possible for the playa to get bad enough that the National Guard just can't get there, or are stretched thin during hurricane season and have to choose between a festival where everyone was informed of the harsh conditions and to bring survival gear, or a city where people are being driven out of their homes.


good perspective

it's "easy" when you bring enough bungee balls, clips and caribiners to attach miles of tarp (that you also may have brought) to make a shade for the Man :mrgreen:

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Traveller in Time
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Traveller in Time » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:54 pm

Jackass wrote:From what I understand people used to get turned away when they would show up with nothing and it appeared that they may die during the event... Or maybe that was just warning lore.


maladroit wrote:Not always. I can't be the only one sitting there with enough emergency food, water, and ratchet straps to hunker in place stranded in condition alpha for an extra week, uncomfortable that 5,000 of my neighbors brought two pairs of booty shorts and a cold pizza.


forty_eight wrote:it's "easy" when you bring enough bungee balls, clips and caribiners to attach miles of tarp (that you also may have brought) to make a shade for the Man :mrgreen:


The above checked at Gate would be much better then separating by budget. :D
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Re: Nude Erections for Burning Man

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:10 pm

boners all around.
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Sham
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Sham » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:51 pm

Mod hat off, dusty burner hat on.

Each year we seem to have someone do something stupid and there are new rules the following year. Before we all know it, the entire event will be "theme park sterile". All sharp edges on everything will be ground down so no one gets a boo-boo.
I recall driving my artcar though the gates as recently as 2008 and stopping to chat with old friends, and not having to move because there were no other cars coming in at that time.
I guess the success of the event comes with rules and rules and rules. The old days are never coming back.
Next year, I fully expect that there will be a fence around the Man, and a year later, there will be fireworks on burn night and large video screens of burns past and not an actual fire taking place.
There are endless theories as to why there are dulling changes, but at least most of us can recall when you could actually get hurt there.

Mod hat back on! :roll:

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby maladroit » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:10 am

It's hard for me to imagine a fake burn, but I find it equally hard to imagine no fence at the Man burn next year. Law enforcement allowed it to proceed because of the preventive measures and promises made by Perimeter crews and the Sandmen. As much as I appreciate their role and understand that things can happen no matter how good you are, this year they did in fact fail in their stated mission. So law enforcement agencies will likely not trust that they can prevent a similar event in the future.

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ACfromSAC
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby ACfromSAC » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:39 am

OH how I wish the contributors of this thread were the ones making the rules. Yes to everything stated about tickets, self-reliance, placement, safety/self-preservation, Principles (lol), etc.

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vargaso
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby vargaso » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:02 am

forty_eight wrote:Make Burning Man Hard Again?

Camping isn't hard, though!

I haven't quite figured out why Burning Man is supposed to have been so hard - beyond bringing a art car or building something massive.

It's really just a camping trip in the desert - child's play, really.


Yeah I agree. If you camp, then Burning Man ain't that tough to get through. The challenge is in making it fun and doing it in style. But as for survival? It's fucking easy. Maybe a windstorm will surprise you the first time and your shade structure and/or tent is fucked. You can still drive the fuck home in your autocar, ya pansy.

Also, I agree with everything Maladroit said a few replies back. While Burning Man ain't that hard to survive, it is a pain in the ass to get there for most.

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dragonpilot
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby dragonpilot » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:20 pm

On balance it was another great Burn thanks to the many friends I've made over the years, but for me I'm beginning to notice that this unique event is becoming like everything else...theft, vandalism, ass-hattery, thousands of bikes dumped (not to mention tons of other MOOP), busted locks on the portos, fucked up ice sales (first year many of us couldn't get blocks), massive long lines for free shit, death...

I was the guy who wouldn't shut up when someone asked me about Burning Man. Now I'm starting to be embarrassed about being associated with it because it's losing it's uniqueness. Why would I want to spend hundreds of bucks and travel hundreds of miles to go somewhere that's not much different than where I came from? I didn't think I would ever feel this way, but here it is...

Perhaps in a way I'm being told that it's time to move on...to bring more of what was originally unique about Burning Man to my local arena, to focus more attention at home...sad, and at the same time happy with this realization.
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Token
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Token » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:30 pm

forty_eight wrote:
Camping isn't hard, though!



I'll bet good money that 70% of the US population wouldn't know how to take a shit in the woods without googling it first.

I'd pay even more for a legit pollster to ask that question in a national stage :twisted:

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Meat Hunter » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:35 pm

dragonpilot,

Thank you for your words. I have been thinking that I might be the only one that has noticed the recent change(s) in attitudes & actions and I have been having these same thoughts.

2017 was only my fourth Burn and in a short 4 years, I have noticed changes that I also feel are not healthy for the event or in keeping with the guiding principles.

Being a 73 year old, traveling more than half way across country is not as easy logistically or on body and mind as it was a scant four years ago.

I am going to have to spend a good bit of time this winter thinking about if another trip to the event is the right thing for me to do and what (if anything) that I can contribute.

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ecoita
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby ecoita » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:23 pm

sigh...

I've been following Burning Man for a number of years, attended and missed another 2 years. But from what I'm seeing and hearing, there is a new generation coming in and they have no clue whats going on.

(I wish I could find it) I stumbled on a YouTube video a few years ago with a guy being interviewed on playa. He was rambling at first but then starting making sense. He compared the event to a old fishing village where people came to learned how to be like the old fishermen, dressing up like the fishermen and eventually living with them. After a while, all the original fishermen disappeared and what was left were people who were like the originals but not. Original meaning, culture and ideas faded soon after...

I just watched during build week a "blogger" who was on playa but wasn't sure what the theme was, and just guessed at what it meant... (REALLY??) It seems it has really become main stream and people have lost the value of the principles when they arrive. Hearing about vandalism going up, the bike mess, moop out of control, 5 bars of data and wireless signals and wild drunks attacking people is definitely not the experience we're looking for.

I suggest more tickets go to theme camps, infrastructure and support teams plus those who contribute and have good track records. I don't think plug and play is all bad, but there should be some balance/allowances/responsibility and vetting (lol at that word) and not just because your a quasi-billionare. And yes, scare some folks away with an application process (If monster.com & careerbuilder.com can scan millions of resumes daily, BRC can use software to scan 70k applications against a basic key word and selective answer algorithm for a pass/fail pool). Perhaps a referral system to those who have attended already? We were all newbies at one point, but it seems too watered down now.

Its not bullet proof by far, but we need to take a stand somewhere. This was my secret garden and I feel we let the crazy neighbors in waay too soon.
If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done.

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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:51 pm

Ironically you seem to be one of those you complain of.
Your suggestion about tickets getting delegated to theme camps and other makers of stuff and infrastructure IS happening and has been for years. Are you not aware of the Directed Group Sale?
And it doesn't really work, it only causes even more people to think they NEED to join a camp to go to Burning Man. Because of DGS, they kind of do need to.

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BBadger
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby BBadger » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:29 am

Yeah, I think the DGS is a regression. They should be like EA passes used to be: something for people who are willing to get there early and set up stuff, not as some sort of "legacy admission" for people in established theme camps. Quite frankly, if you can't be there early to set up, why are you a "critical" member of that theme camp that requires a reserved ticket? Oh wait, that was what it was supposed to be for the first year.
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Traveller in Time
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Traveller in Time » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:53 am

ecoita wrote:sigh...

I just watched during build week a "blogger" who was on playa but wasn't sure what the theme was, and just guessed at what it meant... (REALLY??) It seems it has really become main stream and people have lost the value of the principles when they arrive. Hearing about vandalism going up, the bike mess, moop out of control, 5 bars of data and wireless signals and wild drunks attacking people is definitely not the experience we're looking for.

...

If this was the same Vlogger as I have seen then forget about it, they were not even pre event on playa and talked on and on about nothing related to the event.
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Sham
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Sham » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:57 am

For me personally, it seems that the music camps are attracting the non-burner type, weekend party crowd. That music appears to be the reason that there is now an entertainment tax on what started as a counter-culture arts festival in the desert. (mostly debauchery)
Yes, it's all inclusive, but putting out that bowl of milk is only going to attract more cats.
Money seems to be no object for the sound camps or the massive music MV's on the playa. It's a big marketing tool for DJ's to be able to to advertise after the event that they played at Burning Man. Their brand value goes up significantly.
Again, personally speaking, I would see what steps could be taken to get the entertainment tax removed, and then the chips will most likely fall in the right places.
The event will still sell out all the tickets.

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby unjonharley » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:36 am

Hoping the next big thing in music, is Talent .. My answer to when you say you are a DJ is, : OH! I'm sorry .. You have no talent ??

Music camps should be along the upper ring of the outer playa .. A couple of hundred yards apart .. The biggest one at the apex ..
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Dr Helix
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Dr Helix » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:20 am

MONEY=Nothing is going to change.
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ACfromSAC
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby ACfromSAC » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:22 am

unjonharley wrote:Hoping the next big thing in music, is Talent .. My answer to when you say you are a DJ is, : OH! I'm sorry .. You have no talent ??

I always wonder if it's just my music snobbery... but I feel exactly the same way. Every time someone tells me they're a DJ, I just roll my eyes :roll: Oh, you know how to press play? That's cool.

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby maladroit » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:16 am

ACfromSAC wrote:
unjonharley wrote:Hoping the next big thing in music, is Talent .. My answer to when you say you are a DJ is, : OH! I'm sorry .. You have no talent ??

I always wonder if it's just my music snobbery... but I feel exactly the same way. Every time someone tells me they're a DJ, I just roll my eyes :roll: Oh, you know how to press play? That's cool.


There is some skill involved, I'd compare it to a flower arranger. It's not that they made the flowers, but you can tell when someone is really good at trimming and juxtaposition to get an effect. Or maybe scrapbooking. Or someone who makes really good sandwiches.

It's something I can't do, so I try not to minimize it. But god there are so many bad ones out there. I don't go to the sound camps anymore. My favorite story in recent years is just going out wandering when the rest of the camp had to go see Some Big DJ Person. When we met up later, they were pissed...he was apparently so drunk (or something) that he didn't do anything. Just instantly cut from one song to another without attempting to match beats, at one point was nowhere to be seen while the music stopped, etc.

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unjonharley
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby unjonharley » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:30 am

Blaring three beeps or grunts for an hour is not talent .. It is a waste of time and money
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spacetime
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby spacetime » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:59 pm

I appreciate great mixes! And DJ talent! I just don't know what they look like and for some reason only can experience them when they are labeled on sound cloud afterward. Some of those are really great to listen to.

But on playa, I got less out of sound cars than ever before. I recall two years ago thinking the mayan warrior was the next coming. And secondly, robot heart, 'wow that is something' but I went to both these cars a number of times this year and got so little from them and the crowds around them.

The place to be was the tree, and that weird moon lander thing with the glittery rocks. And the playground camp, and just next door at your neighbor's tarot card reading gift. Sound camps, pyramids and sound cars have never meant less than they did this year.

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BBadger
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby BBadger » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:25 pm

Yeah, it was kind of weird with the sound camps and cars. More than ever they felt just like some place where you stand around and hang out (or outright avoid like a superfund site in the case of Camp Questionmark) for a little while and then move on. They had neat lasers and stuff you could see for long distances, but it all felt like I could return to any one of these places at any time and there would be nothing I would had missed.

So I just never bothered returning.
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby lucky420 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:46 pm

I enjoyed dancing at Camp ?, but then again I like the durty
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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BBadger
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby BBadger » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:55 pm

Something about the sound of angry horns, fighting foundry machinery, and splatty sounding bass just didn't do it for me...
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby lucky420 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:41 pm

:twisted: :lol:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:49 pm

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby BBadger » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:06 pm

maladroit wrote:It's something I can't do, so I try not to minimize it. But god there are so many bad ones out there. I don't go to the sound camps anymore. My favorite story in recent years is just going out wandering when the rest of the camp had to go see Some Big DJ Person. When we met up later, they were pissed...he was apparently so drunk (or something) that he didn't do anything. Just instantly cut from one song to another without attempting to match beats, at one point was nowhere to be seen while the music stopped, etc.


Oh yes, I remember hearing a DJ butt-dial an iPod mix by essentially hitting next at random times. This was at one of the more major soundcamps too. If I were running that gig I'd get out the hook, yank him and toss him out as the schmuck he is. "Big-name-DJ" gets evicted from soundcamp DJ booth. GTFO! I'd love to see that.
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