Next Directions for Burning Man

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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some seeing eye
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Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:25 pm

Most people have heard about 2017 and have on playa experiences to relate.

How does Burning Man evolve? How does it improve? How does it survive?

My observation is that there is indigenous evolution by the participants and there is org-initiated evolution, usually responsive.

The organizers have enforcement-lean rules and cultural shaping as tools.

2017 brings us dosing, tall structures, perimeters and mental health.

We have been through rules/shaping with mixed success: sexual assault, art car safety, vehicles on the playa, highway safety, structural integrity, fuel/fire, drones, lasers, firearms, minors, food safety. More?

Discuss.
Last edited by some seeing eye on Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:57 pm

The Ten Priciples need to be re-emphasized or revised.
Radical Self Reliance has become a rarity. Every new burner has heard that what you do to go to Burning Man is join a camp, to provide the infrastructure you need. It's just a campier version of booking accommodations at a hotel.
That's in addition to emphasis on carpooling and alternative transportation such as busses and airplanes - which makes it literally impossible for people to bring their supplies, much less any extra stuff - you know, all that art they come to gawk at. Yay, lets make it easier and easier to go, and harder and harder to bring what makes it worth going! We will all see how that works out...
So.... either quit lying and bullshitting about the so-called principles that the org itself is pushing people to ignore, or just accept that this is going mainstream and becoming a spectator event.

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Traveller in Time
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Traveller in Time » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:36 pm

Fence ? No use the one on the loose will jump or divert the attention.
More guards ? Same, only more people feeling guilty in not prevented something.

Making sure no-one goes flipping out on their own ? Will give the feelings of subject by trying to be converted to a faith.

Perhaps the friend invite system, only give out tickets to known rational friendly Burners. Just who sets the standard.
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GreyCoyote
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:00 pm

Concertina wire. Around the burns. And all around the PNPs.

One keeps confused peeps from hurting themselves.
The other keeps confused peeps from hurting everyone else.
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
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Elorrum
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Elorrum » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:19 pm

Yep, Capn', er pardon, Admiral. It's closing out the individual who wants to bring their own burn, their own way, and fostering a consumer class who just pulls out a credit card, and gets on the bus or plane, like they are headed to an all inclusive resort. I watched the burn from a turn-out overlook 2 miles from the man. Free, quiet, clean, slept in my own bed last night. I was listening to BMIR and the announcers were commenting on the closure of large art build spaces where a lot of Burning Man art has been accomplished. One announcer suggested that this will mean a return to more small, personal, interactive (should I say, volunteered, unsponsored?) art. I doubt it, but I wish it did mean that. The org is going to have to grow their own, subsidize, invest in work space, and get an industry going behind the brand. Big camps and directed ticket sales, sponsored large art and professional DJ gigs, plus staffing by committed volunteers mean their city infrastructure will be in place for the spectators who really don't care what it costs, or what part they play. The principles make a good TED talk, but they've been spread thin.

I did like listening to some of the broadcast right before the burn, people were mentioning their top hits for the art this year, and some of the smaller surprises that were happened upon. I would love to have seen the small "historic markers" one guy mentioned, "2009 on this spot, a DPW worker said "Good Morning." or words to that effect. As long as some of that there kind of thing can be found, it will still be worth it to me.
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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:30 pm

They keep trying to make it easier for anyone to go. Radical inclusiveness gets used as an excuse for people to fly in with nothing.
Well it's way out in the middle of the desert in the corner of Nevada. It's not easy, and wasn't supposed to be. When you were in BRC, you were in the exclusive company of others who'd made the same effort, who'd done what it took to get themselves and all their stuff and whatever art/crazy-freaky stuff out there. That's what made it special.
The more you fuck that up, the more you fuck it all up.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:16 pm

My sentiments exactly!

Amen! 8)
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GreyCoyote
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:18 pm

Basically Burningman (the Borg) decided to commodify the whole "decommodification" experience.

Just let that sink in for a minute the next time you have to watch some former landscapers new teeth talking to Oprah in Deepak Chopra-like word-salad-circles about those blessed "10 principles".

Oh snap... was that out loud?
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
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Luigi
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Luigi » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:49 am

Good question - what direction? It appears bmorg has gone down a road of no return. I took this year off - just did not have the prep time, energy and cash to make it, even though I am a Reno local. On burn day I visited the NV Museum of Art which has a good exhibit "City of Dust - the Evolution of Burning Man" It traces the history of the event from SF to present day and is very enlightening. I wish I could have heard John Law speak last month....(one of the founding 'temple of three' - he stopped going in 1996)

My two cents:
The Burner Bus, Airport, Rideshare Board kill 'self reliance' (but helps sell tickets.)
The price of a ticket kills 'decommodification.' Re-selling and scammers were out of control this year. Rental trucks with their ads.
Leave No Trace sounds good but it was depressing leaving the city the last few years. Too much trash.
Tickets. One person, one ticket. No transfer or reselling, comes with vehicle pass. I realize this is a hot topic, but really....
It's the desert! Self reliant or leave. Hard harsh reality check.

As the Admiral said - 'bmorg' needs to either revise the principles (and their whole act) or go mainstream festival. Evolution.
"Water is the driving force of all nature. " Leonardo da Vinci

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Token
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Token » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:11 pm

TTITD used to be an experiment. Social, cultural, whatever, but it was an experiment with no real agenda.

It is hard to do experiments when all the parameters have become fixed and institutionalized.

Id love to see Marion think outside the box. Mash it up a bit instead of serving the same old soylent green each year.

Wouldn't it be grand if there were 64 theme camps (32 each ring, Esplanade and A), limited number of mutant vehicles (and I mean a lot less), and no fucking villages, just open camping and a main ticket sale with no privileged class?

Fucking Utopia I tell you.

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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:47 pm

That sounds like the BRC I remember from the turn of the century.

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Token
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Token » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:35 pm

Aw, fuck. I guess I slid right into the "it was better last decade" jaded rant.

How about no art cars next year, especially 15 year old boats ;)

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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:41 pm

It might get grandfathered in!!

dustandsnow
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby dustandsnow » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:20 pm

Fences around burns will likely become a condition for the permit.

"More than 600 volunteers and staff ringed the perimeter of the Temple, backed up by a hastily installed metal security fence. The fence and additional security were new conditions sought by the federal land manager, said Burning Man co-founder Crimson Rose. "

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 630465001/

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spacetime
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby spacetime » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:11 pm

Fences are a good start. No burns without inner, and possibly outer perimeter fences. I don't want this, but it is hard to see it as anything but now mandatory.

Probably no dancing in the ashes afterward. No more pig roasts at the feet of the man.

I wonder if last year will be the final year people will be allowed to hang in the ashes of the man. Because it was some amazing ashes last year.

Anyhow, some major steps need to be taken to make self reliance a thing. The number of plug and play attendees this year was staggering.

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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:22 am

Once upon a time, they'd get on bullhorns and say "get as close as you dare, we don't care if you die!"

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Lonesomebri
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Lonesomebri » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:57 am

Safety fence around first camp to keep them in.
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Token
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Token » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:11 am

Admiral Fukkit wrote:Once upon a time, they'd get on bullhorns and say "get as close as you dare, we don't care if you die!"


And that was after they put you to work to raise the fucker onto the straw bales!

They had some balls back then.

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:26 am

I opted out of seeing the burn .. That was a sad thing, to have a fire fighter go in after the person .. The knee-jerk from the default population is beyond ignorance and well into stupid ..
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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vargaso
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby vargaso » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:29 am

Token wrote:
Wouldn't it be grand if there were 64 theme camps (32 each ring, Esplanade and A), limited number of mutant vehicles (and I mean a lot less), and no fucking villages, just open camping and a main ticket sale with no privileged class?

Fucking Utopia I tell you.


Fuck yes.

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BBadger
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby BBadger » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:18 pm

I'd like to see the BxB and chartered airline travel go away and the event be purely a road-journey unless you own the (small) plane and are flying in yourself an a few passengers on a single flight.

Doing so at least creates a much larger time and resource commitment on individuals. The excess traffic will be self-limiting anyway. The worse the exodus wait time and traffic, the more people will take measures to avoid it by scheduling their exits at different times. Some may not even attend because they can't dedicate the time.

If the permit has vehicle limits, well, that's that. People will have to consolidate their own travels on their own and invest in their own transportation methods.

I'd also like to see the DGS tickets reserved only for people who have WAPs and attend early to set up. Then, to attend on such tickets you have to dedicate much more time, not just belong to some established camp that has free access to tickets.

As is, the DGS system is too nepotistic, and encourages people to join existing camps rather than create and maintain their own. Such existing camps have the ability to entice people with premade infrastructure, perks, and also a steady stream of dues, discouraging self-reliance and small-camp prep. We already saw that DGS tickets could be legally used to entice members to join camps. This is not how it should be.
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Token
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Token » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:42 pm

I like it BB.

Get people to commit more to the process of creating something new.

The whole sub-economy of the theme camps, dues, services etc has become a crutch.

BM has become turnkey via DGS.

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666isMONEY
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby 666isMONEY » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:05 am

I left after 8-hours (found campsite at 2:00am Sunday shortly after gates opened), mainly because of the heat, this was my 10th burn and I'm from Tucson so heat is nothing new.

Second reason was being pushed back to H-Street because I'm not in a theme camp, it was too far away from everything, I walk everywhere.

Third reason is always having to fight neighbors who park their generators near me, like someone did before I left this year.

My suggestion is for a block in a good location (like D & 9:00, D & 3:00, D & 6:00) open for single car campers or small groups without generators.

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Traveller in Time
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Traveller in Time » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:44 am

666isMONEY wrote: . . .
My suggestion is for a block in a good location (like D & 9:00, D & 3:00, D & 6:00) open for single car campers or small groups without generators.


I read that as placement according to campstyle

Tents in one block, Trailers in their block, RVs in an other, Theme Camps all clustered in their blocks

Kind of split out to what money you have to spend. :(
Dreaming a temporary world improving the default world



Not expressing yourself but embracing all other expressions is The Challenge




...I can make anything I can imagine . . . I just can't make _some_ things happen



Have some Free will

maladroit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby maladroit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:46 pm

If you have 1000 people, 50 fuckwits can make a mess that is somewhat easy to clean up and those same fuckwits can be directly identified and shamed or disciplined within the community.

If you have 70,000 people, 3500 fuckwits can make a huge mess and they can hide behind an ever-shifting smokescreen of layered fuckwittery. They can create entire cells within the community where being a fuckwit is normal.

Look up the photos of Glastonbury aftermath every year. The solitary reason we don't have the same scale of a problem is that Burning Man is still difficult by comparison.

Turn off easy mode. No more Burner Express bus or airplane. No more on site services other than ice, coffee, and porta potties. No more plug and play.

There's no way to get back whatever edge or mystery it had. Too many instagram photos for that...everyone knows it's not some dangerous Satanfest with human sacrifice and surprise orgies in the streets. It's already been civilized, packaged, and marketed by thoughtful pro photographers and celebrity DJs. But it can still continue to exist if we just stop making it so damn easy.

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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:56 pm

Traveller in Time wrote:
666isMONEY wrote: . . .
My suggestion is for a block in a good location (like D & 9:00, D & 3:00, D & 6:00) open for single car campers or small groups without generators.


I read that as placement according to campstyle

Tents in one block, Trailers in their block, RVs in an other, Theme Camps all clustered in their blocks

Kind of split out to what money you have to spend. :(


That's entirely false.
"RVs" or trailers can cost a few million $$ or a few hundred $$. I've never had much money into my RVs.
Many camps, such as every camp I've been in since '00, have a mix of all types of shelters.

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Jackass
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Jackass » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:03 pm

^^^ agreed. I'd say still keep RV pumping services, but cut out the potable water delivery and continued service. That right there would roll things back about 6 or 7 years, and make BM tough again. If you left your rv faucet trickling all night depleting all of your fresh water and topping off your grey and or black tanks, you used to be fucked.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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forty_eight
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby forty_eight » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:11 pm

Make Burning Man Hard Again?

Camping isn't hard, though!

I haven't quite figured out why Burning Man is supposed to have been so hard - beyond bringing a art car or building something massive.

It's really just a camping trip in the desert - child's play, really.

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Admiral Fukkit
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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:12 pm

I think every burner should adhere to one simple rule: show up prepared as if no one else was going to show up.
That's what Radical Self Reliance means.

Radical Inclusion means anyone who does that and has a ticket is welcome.

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Re: Next Directions for Burning Man

Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:15 pm

Admiral Fukkit wrote:I think every burner should adhere to one simple rule: show up prepared as if no one else was going to show up.
That's what Radical Self Reliance means.

Radical Inclusion means anyone who does that and has a ticket is welcome.


That would cut the pop. in half ..
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