Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

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Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:49 pm

Found this to be a pretty good topic of discussion and decided it may be a good one on here.
If you're aware of Mr. Musk and SpaceX at all, you know his plan to inhabit Mars is imminent- by 2024 he projects that he'll have the first few gaggle of humans working on geoengineering the planet into a "second Earth", constructing a city and will already have their space hub set up ready for 6 rockets to land and become airborne at any point.
I find this topic particularly interesting not only because I think his ideas for BFR and space travel are completely remarkable but also because it opens doors for people to discuss what it would be like to be a multi-planetary evolution, how this technological advancement could affect human life on earth (would it be positive or negative?), what could be the risks of traveling back and forth to mars? (transmittable micro-death-organisms) etc., etc.,
All the realms of boundless possibilities excites me. Hoping to start something here... what do you think?

Also, if you haven't watched his presentation at IAC, here you go. It's fucking incredible. Thank me later

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:19 am

He's a big dreamer, that's for sure.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby some seeing eye » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:07 am

They are launching 10 satellites this morning that will bring better sat phone and internet coverage to the world including BRC.

https://www.space.com/17933-nasa-televi ... ce-tv.html

Some one and some planet has to be first, but it takes too much energy to get a significant number of people and their stuff into orbit or beyond. Have to admire what SpaceX has done so far.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:29 pm

some seeing eye wrote:... a significant number of people and their stuff into orbit or beyond....

Room on that ship for 7 billion? I didn't think so.

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Token » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:59 pm

If people ever successfully establish a viable self-sustainable base on another planet or similar ...

... this blue one we got will truly go to shit.

Which may not be a bad thing. We need to open the windows and air the place out anyway.

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:20 pm

What's even the point of being on another planet anyway? Why not just be floating in space, Mars lacks a livable environment anyway.

Things like this Mars shit are signs that you have too much money, and have lost touch with reality.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Token » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:32 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:What's even the point of being on another planet anyway? Why not just be floating in space, Mars lacks a livable environment anyway.

Things like this Mars shit are signs that you have too much money, and have lost touch with reality.


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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby BBadger » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:55 pm

Unless Elon Musk provides a rocket trip back home to Earth, he better be packing crate loads of cyanide capsules for all the people who are going to want to kill themselves after realizing that Mars is probably the most boring place in the world -- worlds -- to spend the rest of your life upon.

A world with a dimmer sun, no plant life, no way to survive outdoors without a suit.

A land where the terrain is rust-colored everywhere you go.

No radiation protection, so you're living in these specialized pods or underground. Whoopdeedoo! Will there even windows in the rooms?

And what are you going to do on Mars after you've walked the city concourse or seen the same damn red mountains surrounding the city thousand times? Read your Facebook feed at 500 bits-per-second? Stare that the tiny spot on the horizon in the morning that is Earth, longing for the days before you thought it was a good idea to die on this barren desert planet, living underground?

A colony on Mars is a complete waste of time and resources. In fact, there's probably nowhere worth colonizing off Earth. No place we've found, or can get to, even approximates even the worst places on Earth for living. That's right, it's better living in the middle of the Sahara desert or Antarctica, or the bottom of the ocean, than it is to be anywhere else in space.

All these rockets into space for people will serve only one purpose in the future: space tourism. Nobody, but the "sherpas," or maybe some scientists, are going to have a "permanent" presence in outer space. There's no point if you're just "living" there. People will take their week to month trip, have their fill, and then return to Earth.

Who even really wants to see a planet on the ground anyway except in pictures? Did the pictures from Titan look super appealing? It looked like the shores of a lake, only made of methane. Yeah, that's where I want to camp.

What a waste of money too. Why not spend it on rovers or probes or other unmanned vehicles to that don't care about boredom as they seek out and image and sense space stuff. Who needs human eyes seeing these things in person?
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:24 pm

Maybe that's the point.... :wink:
There are no laws on Mars. My thinking is that they'll be real sneaky about it, handing you a waiver form to sign at the door, it primarily consists of some jargon that doesn't make sense at all and then there at the bottom, written in teeny tiny letters, your rights as a human on Earth. Dismissed entirely as soon as you buckle up for the ride of your life. Weee.
And they'll sign away because at that point, it was such a long, tedious application process & wait time to get onto the damn rocket in the first place that they're excitement and dissatisfaction for Earth will overrule their ability to logically determine what it is they might be signing.
Just a thought...

Regardless, it would be an incredible feat, that's for sure.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Token » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:12 pm

Avacadi wrote:Maybe that's the point.... :wink:
There are no laws on Mars.



Not entirely true. There are several treaties in place and the ISS Agreement that set precedent.

End of the day, maritime laws would be the final fallback even though they are not officially extended to celestial bodies.

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby BBadger » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:47 pm

It'll be a feat... but it'll probably end up a lot like going to the Moon. After the first few trips, people completely lost interest and wanted the money used for something else. Same thing with the ISS, or whatever else.

Personally, I see it as a huge waste of resources to even store humans up in the ISS, let alone on the Moon or Mars. The rovers they've sent to Mars already have done far more than any number of colonists ever will. I'd rather have a fleet of rovers on the red planet (or other places) doing science in the elements for years at a time, and years beyond their planned lifetimes, than having to support a bunch of humans doing little more than hanging out and testing life support systems.

Also, I'd rather have more large telescopes and probes like those that went to Saturn or Pluto. They're doing real exploration and documenting interesting stuff. Moon bases and Mars bases do nothing for me.

The James Webb Space telescope is going to be something to get excited for. I'd also like to see some very large scale telescopes be deployed to image much smaller objects (like actual planets) in outer space.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:45 am

Oh yes definitely yes
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Wrath » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am

BBadger wrote:Unless Elon Musk provides a rocket trip back home to Earth

The rockets are supposedly coming back.

I figure what'll end up happening is average people will get hired for something like two year terms. Go up, run machines or whatever, come back if you're not down (or get fired), or sign up for another term.

The REAL question is what will happen to nuclear deterrence when the powers that be have backup civilizations.

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby some seeing eye » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:24 pm

Certainly people in space drove huge technology advances. The ISS is a relatively small project for conducting experiments. But people on other planets when robotic exploration would do as well doesn't seem worth it until our civilization is more advanced. More optical telescopes in space would be welcome. Maybe they will be assembled by robots?

People in space is good marketing for NASA and commercial space companies. And space travel and colonies do get children excited.

Image

But I have to say one of my favorite pieces of fiction is The Martian Chronicles. It is a tragedy for civilizations though.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby BBadger » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:16 pm

Wrath wrote:
BBadger wrote:Unless Elon Musk provides a rocket trip back home to Earth

The rockets are supposedly coming back.

I figure what'll end up happening is average people will get hired for something like two year terms. Go up, run machines or whatever, come back if you're not down (or get fired), or sign up for another term.


That's just too expensive. There's no need for humans to maintain such things that can be managed via remote control. It takes a year to even reach Mars, and then you have to house, life support, and supply the crews. There will need to be liability coverage, hazard pay, etc. You also need to make the machines human serviceable, which adds further complications. Who even needs to have humans there doing anything that a machine can do for you for cheaper and longer?

The Tesla factories are already automated without much human involvement at all, so are the rocket launches, etc. The future of this space tourism is not in employing humans, but making money off them.

The REAL question is what will happen to nuclear deterrence when the powers that be have backup civilizations.


IMO I doubt it'll be a factor any more than bunkers that allow survival after a nuclear war. It may allow you to retaliate, but doesn't make nuclear belligerence any more palatable as all the valuable possessions are still vulnerable. There is just no place off Earth that will be as valuable as the possessions on Earth. It's like having a colony in the middle of the Sahara desert as your backup for your cities in your home country.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Token » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:14 pm

Musk ... that sounds familiar..,

Is this the guy that is trying to make a mass-produced electric car with 200+ mike range for the masses ...

... and GM beat him to it?

The Tesla bubble will implode at some point, and rather soon if signs are correct.

If Musk is able to pivot more resources into his low earth orbit internet satellite network ... now that is a goldmine.

Think about it, an Internet 2.0 and he owns it.

Let that sink in.

Mars is for wankers and sheep shaggers. The “shiny” to distract the lemurs.

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:38 pm

Tesla imploding. Interesting. Let me look into that.

Token wrote:Is this the guy that is trying to make a mass-produced electric car with 200+ mike range for the masses ...

... and GM beat him to it?

Not "trying", The Model 3 is already out and all of them sold out before it was even released to the public. Don't think the Bolt did that... And although the Bolt does achieve more mileage on one single charge vs tesla, the tesla maxes out at 130mph opposed to the Bolt at 93mph. Anyone (most everyone) with the need for speed would likely choose the Tesla over the Bolt with that spec alone. Probably the most important, though, the crash test- that floored most American drivers,

Ah, Elon does it again!
Look up the Bolt crash test and let me know which one you'd rather occupy...


I regret to inform you but GM, Ford, Nissan etc., none of them hold a candle to Tesla and no, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon, if at all.
I'm interested, which "signs" are you referring to...?

BBadger wrote:It's like having a colony in the middle of the Sahara desert as your backup for your cities in your home country.

True, but since Mars does have water and soil-like nutrients on the land, it wouldn't be difficult to plant micro organisms that feed off it. Extremely salty water, sure, but it is water nonetheless. It is not a far fetched idea.. and it will happen.

"The concept starts small. Microorganisms that munch on Mars's natural resources could not only transform the red planet's soil, but could pump out gasses to bolster the Mars's embarrassingly thin atmosphere to boot. This is not simply theoretical. Such a process has already been proven already in Earth's history, We owe all our planet's atmospheric oxygen to microbe photosynthesis."
-Gary King, Microbiologist, Louisiana State University

BBadger wrote:
The Tesla factories are already automated without much human involvement at all, so are the rocket launches, etc. The future of this space tourism is not in employing humans, but making money off them.


Agree. It's going to take some time to engineer the planet to an 'earth like' state & until they do, it'll be a trip and back. If that.

Token wrote:Mars is for wankers and sheep shaggers. The “shiny” to distract the lemurs.


Lemur PERHAPS!... I'm about as hard as my eyes are wide when I look up at those stars.. And if your jollies don't get off when you think of space and God and all the limitless opportunities that are being presented... well, you're just tacky
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby lucky420 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:41 am

Some people think pushing god on others is just tacky
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Token » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:14 am

Avacadi wrote:

"The concept starts small. Microorganisms that munch on Mars's natural resources could not only transform the red planet's soil, but could pump out gasses to bolster the Mars's embarrassingly thin atmosphere to boot. This is not simply theoretical. Such a process has already been proven already in Earth's history, We owe all our planet's atmospheric oxygen to microbe photosynthesis."
-Gary King, Microbiologist, Louisiana State University




All non-starters because Mars has no magnetosphere. Without the magnetic shielding like we have on earth, any atmosphere on Mars will blow away in the solar winds.

This is not just theoretical, it is a continuing process that has been measured on the existing Martian atmosphere.

And that is huge problem to solve.

If the goal is to advance science and do experimentation, there are more attractive options out there than putting a greenhouse on Mars.

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Token » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:31 am


Lemur PERHAPS!... I'm about as hard as my eyes are wide when I look up at those stars.. And if your jollies don't get off when you think of space and God and all the limitless opportunities that are being presented... well, you're just tacky



Sorry ‘bout that. I was trying to be snarky-clever with sheep and lemurs to make a point without thinking it through.

Musk is just spinning imagination to further his space-launch business. The real payoff are his monetized ventures from that field.

Look at where they are pushing laws and treaties - all centered on mineral rights from celestial bodies.

Now this God character... never met any of them and there is a full gaggle running around I’m told.

If she ever comes over for a sit down, I’ll post back here and let all know how it went.

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:44 am

I didn't mean to push anything on anyone and I apologize if it came off that way.

Continuing...

Mars' wind storms happen annually, and at max speed at about 60mph, a considerable amount less than a category 1 hurricane. Comparatively to Earth, Mars' atmospheric pressure is a lot less.. so things would move, but with less intensity than here on our blue planet. I heard someone say one time that even to fly a kite on Mars, the wind would have to be moving an "astronomical" amount. Lol.
Even if we factor in the wind, the microbes are likely going to be subsurface anyway,

Token wrote:Mars has no magnetosphere.

Semi- true. Mars does lack a magnetosphere, similar to Venus in that sense... However, Venus has no magnetic field whereas Mars has trace amounts and since it is still within a habitable zone in the solar system we wouldn't be incapable of transforming the magnetic field entirely. Whether it be rockets or mirrors. It's not completely impossible.

I'd have to say that solar winds are probably the least of their concern... We all know how well dust sticks to things.

Temperatures on Mars are drastic, constantly freezing and thawing and that would be (IMO) the largest concern as to whether or not a carefully selected microorganism could survive beyond those conditions.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:54 am

Token wrote:
Now this God character... never met any of them and there is a full gaggle running around I’m told.

If she ever comes over for a sit down, I’ll post back here and let all know how it went.


:lol:
Please do!
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Traveller in Time » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:37 pm

Token wrote:
Now this God character... never met any of them and there is a full gaggle running around I’m told.

If she ever comes over for a sit down, I’ll post back here and let all know how it went.



Pure poetry :D (off topic - - I'm not the only one rereadig the poem)
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:06 pm

And while we're talking about space- quick question...
Is there really an observatory on the playa? I met "THE" guy (so he said) while I was fucking around with the balloon lanterns one night but he said it had already been disassembled by that point.
Didn't know if he was yanking my chain or not but seemed rather sincere.
Is it real and if so, where is it normally located in deep?
Id like to meander over that way next year.
Last edited by Avacadi on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:07 pm

Traveller in Time wrote:
Token wrote:
Now this God character... never met any of them and there is a full gaggle running around I’m told.

If she ever comes over for a sit down, I’ll post back here and let all know how it went.



Pure poetry :D (off topic - - I'm not the only one rereadig the poem)


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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:09 pm

..
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Traveller in Time » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:36 pm

Star Art
or
The Black Rock Observatory?


(Bad news for next year, full moon 26-8 04:57 am)
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby burner von braun » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:44 pm

Avacadi wrote: Is there really an observatory on the playa?


Yep! The Black Rock Observatory. It has been out there three or four years now, though I didn't hear if they made it out again this year. It is situated in a prominent location, positioned out beyond and equidistant along the line created by Center Camp, the Man, and the Temple; a fourth node if you will. I believe their dome is assembled out of wood panels that cleverly fit together like puzzle pieces with few if any fasteners. Look them up, along with the Desert Wizards of Mars. Cool cats!

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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby Avacadi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:21 pm

Traveller in Time wrote:(Bad news for next year, full moon 26-8 04:57 am)

Bot response or actual bummer?
Lol ;)


burner von braun wrote:Look them up, along with the Desert Wizards of Mars. Cool cats!

Sweet, thank you, will do!
Are they into space junk funk? :D
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Re: Elon Musk & the Mission to Mars

Postby BBadger » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:01 pm

Avacadi wrote:Mars' wind storms happen annually, and at max speed at about 60mph, a considerable amount less than a category 1 hurricane.


Token was really talking about solar winds, but yeah, as you said, the winds on Mars are not very strong because of the thin atmosphere (contrary to the depiction in The Martian).

Semi- true. Mars does lack a magnetosphere, similar to Venus in that sense... However, Venus has no magnetic field whereas Mars has trace amounts and since it is still within a habitable zone in the solar system we wouldn't be incapable of transforming the magnetic field entirely. Whether it be rockets or mirrors. It's not completely impossible.


From what I've read, Venus is a special case in that it managed to establish an ionosphere that generates a weak magnetic field, before having its atmosphere stripped by the solar winds. Getting something started like that on Mars would be a very difficult prospect, kind of a chicken and egg problem. Plus, it might require Venus-like conditions that makes it uninhabitable to begin with.

Avacadi wrote:And while we're talking about space- quick question...
Is there really an observatory on the playa? I met "THE" guy (so he said) while I was fucking around with the balloon lanterns one night but he said it had already been disassembled by that point.
Didn't know if he was yanking my chain or not but seemed rather sincere.
Is it real and if so, where is it normally located in deep?
Id like to meander over that way next year.


I was talking to someone who I believe was working with the, or one of the, observatories. He said something about maybe moving it to the outer rings of the city because Deep Playa is too light polluted now.

Someone set up a homemade Sonotube-based telescope near our camp this past year which gave a great view of the Moon.
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