Camp Israel is looking for participants, sound system, djs

[DVD Burner]

what are you talking about? Do you live in America? Look at how all the different cultures live together and get along here.

You are from texas and saying that? what planet are you from.
try saying that to some of the Mexicans that come across the border or the Blacks that are in jail there in Brownsville.

Ok, I can see it if you are from Austin or so. Is that where you are from?

And no, I did not potilizise it first:

Yeah! Yeah! Politicize! Thats just what burning man needs.

[DVD Burner]

I'm sure though no matter what I say, you wont understand what you are doing.

[lizwiz]

YAY! Moshe!!

I totally like your response. Thank you for posting it. that was the best post yet on this list!!!

BTW, I am aware of the displaced arab population in the Middle East. I just don't call them by the term that y'all have been using. I won't go into the reasons because I want to stop the political conversation now.

Love,
Liz

[DVD Burner]

love back at ya.

[bullD]

hey DVDBurner, I thought you said you were out of here...

[zorro sings]

Wasn't the purpose of this thread a recruitment by Lizwiz for paticipants,sound systems and djs?Can we just get back to that.Who needs this thousand year old feud spilling on to the eplaya and by extension the event itself???

[DVD Burner]

hey DVDBurner, I thought you said you were out of here...

I am but I felt after ya'lls questions were posed you at least deserved an answer.

Now we return to our regularly scheduled program.

[bullD]

DVDBurner, were you ever allowed to get the last worg while growing up???
OK, dont take that personally, I'm just having fun now
bye bye

[DVD Burner]

DVDBurner, were you ever allowed to get the last word while growing up???

Hey hey hey.

I always get the last word.

WORD! ( speaking of cultural diversity) :





Peace!

[sparkletarte]

Having just read this whole thread, I don't even know where to begin.

Lizwiz, while I'm sure you have some good intentions, some of your comments are rather offensive. That's all I can muster to say about it right now.

Lizwiz said:

Burning man is exactly the place where everyone gets along.

I haven't yet been to BM, and even I know this statement isn't true.

[cowboyangel]

interesting banter. I don't see a camp america with an american flag waving, so I think it would be on par to have a camp Israel....a camp Moses or Abraham or Psalms might be better...the word Israel is associated with spirituality and unfortunately also with brutal occupation, and genocide of Palestinians (Jenin, Shavron and Shatila e.g.) and an apartheid security wall.
If you are placing your identity in Israel then you are asking for conflict. If you are extolling your Jewishness, that's entirely different. Burning Man is a place where we leave our flags behind..........

[DVD Burner]

Having just read this whole thread, I don't even know where to begin.

Lizwiz, while I'm sure you have some good intentions, some of your comments are rather offensive. That's all I can muster to say about it right now.

Lizwiz said:

Burning man is exactly the place where everyone gets along.

I haven't yet been to BM, and even I know this statement isn't true.

Darn it, I was gonna leave this thread alone but I have a friend from Lebanon who is not right about the statement.

I wish you ( Lizwiz ) could see what you are doing with the way you have phrased your original post. as is, once you get to Burningman with the aproach you are taking(prostiletising ) your camp could possibly become "Thunderdome".

cowboyangel has a point:

interesting banter. I don't see a camp america with an american flag waving, so I think it would be on par to have a camp Israel....a camp Moses or Abraham or Psalms might be better...the word Israel is associated with spirituality and unfortunately also with brutal occupation, and genocide of Palestinians (Jenin, Shavron and Shatila e.g.) and an apartheid security wall.
If you are placing your identity in Israel then you are asking for conflict. If you are extolling your Jewishness, that's entirely different. Burning Man is a place where we leave our flags behind..........

none of us are trying to (and especially not I ) give you a hard time. I'm mearly trying to prevent everyone from having a bad time by some kind of way heading this preventable off at the past.

Please accept what we say as a positive and seriously reconsider how you are going about this.


Love and Peace again,

DVD.

[bullD]

DVDBurner, where did you get the Microsoft "WORD" box, thats bad ass?!!

SparkleTarte: you have not been to burningman, please go away with you're poisonous assumptions.

Everybody else: Rather than BITCH and WINE about what you have read and you're perceptions regarding such,,, how about writing something constructive rather than destructive like for instance:
"If it were me I would say blah blah blah because in my opinion what you have written sounds a little whack." OR, post a question that gets the original poster to think about it. Let's use our brains for a change people.

ALSO, lets remember that NOBODY is perfect and that we DON"T all see eye to eye on certain issues. To slam somebody for what they beleive in is WEAK, to try and understand by civil conversation and questioning is BIG,,, BE BIGGER THAN THE MASSES!!!
Thank You Goodnight

[DVD Burner]

DVDBurner, where did you get the Microsoft "WORD" box, thats bad ass?!!

Hey now, I have my secrets but if you can figure it out, it's all good.

SparkleTarte: you have not been to burningman, please go away with you're poisonous assumptions.

That was'nt very nice. for someone that is to be on the welcomming commite I cant imagine a worse aproach to a suggestion as to why it was offensive.
Have a little bit more understanding. As I said I have friends of all kinds of middle eastern decent that took offense to Lizwiz's original post.

Everybody else: Rather than BITCH and WINE about what you have read and you're perceptions regarding such,,, how about writing something constructive rather than destructive like for instance:
"If it were me I would say blah blah blah because in my opinion what you have written sounds a little whack." OR, post a question that gets the original poster to think about it. Let's use our brains for a change people.

cowboyangel did just that:

interesting banter. I don't see a camp america with an american flag waving, so I think it would be on par to have a camp Israel....a camp Moses or Abraham or Psalms might be better...the word Israel is associated with spirituality and unfortunately also with brutal occupation, and genocide of Palestinians (Jenin, Shavron and Shatila e.g.) and an apartheid security wall.
If you are placing your identity in Israel then you are asking for conflict. If you are extolling your Jewishness, that's entirely different. Burning Man is a place where we leave our flags behind..........

ALSO, lets remember that NOBODY is perfect and that we DON"T all see eye to eye on certain issues. To slam somebody for what they beleive in is WEAK, to try and understand by civil conversation and questioning is BIG,,, BE BIGGER THAN THE MASSES!!!
Thank You Goodnight

Well all I see is it would be the responsibility of Lizwiz to see just by what has been posted on this thread so far, it just may be a small sample of what to expect when she arrives at burningman. after all, burners are in general rather political:check the afterburn report. complete with statistics.

Stop giving me the chance so often to get in the last word will ya's.

[sparkletarte]

bullD, I have no idea where to start with your post either ...perhaps 'hypocritical' is sufficient, but I just can't stop there.

Please, name me one place in the world where 30,000 people, or even only 3,000 people are gathered from all walks of life out of their normal environments for a week and they all get along at all times. I'm not being poisonous- if everyone got along perfectly, happy happy, joy joy, I'd seriously wonder if they were brainwashed and I'd be concerned about their lack of individual personalities.

I found some of what lizwiz said to be offensive so I said so. Do you prefer that people keep their mouths shut when they think someone is making racist, sexist, or otherwise offensive comments? To speak up is not bitching nor is it whining. The tone with which I wrote my first post was actually quite civil. This one, not as much.

As far as calling people down for not using our brains, and being more positive, please take your own advice. And speaking of brain use, it's 'your' not 'you're', 'whine' not 'wine', and remember, i before e except after c.

[DVD Burner]

[cowboyangel]

DVDBurner, where did you get the Microsoft "WORD" box, thats bad ass?!!

SparkleTarte: you have not been to burningman, please go away with you're poisonous assumptions.

Everybody else: Rather than BITCH and WINE about what you have read and you're perceptions regarding such,,, how about writing something constructive rather than destructive like for instance:
"If it were me I would say blah blah blah because in my opinion what you have written sounds a little whack." OR, post a question that gets the original poster to think about it. Let's use our brains for a change people.

ALSO, lets remember that NOBODY is perfect and that we DON"T all see eye to eye on certain issues. To slam somebody for what they beleive in is WEAK, to try and understand by civil conversation and questioning is BIG,,, BE BIGGER THAN THE MASSES!!!
Thank You Goodnight :D

like Israeli settlers?

[Ron]

....

There is no such thing as palestinians today.......

Wow, there's a load of nastyness if ever I saw it.

Personally I don't care about your camp. If you want to group up along ethnic group/religious lines go to. But I have friends who identify as palestians, just as I have friends who identify as jewish, and all of them have an equal right to self label, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes there are palestinians today, and yes they are being treated terribly by the israeli government, just as various organizations staffed by palestinians are doing awful things to israelis. But palestinians won't go away because of the lines on a map, nor the names given pieces of land, and denying their existance seems to me to be a crucial step along the path to the kind of abuses the world, and palestinians and jews both, have seen more than enough of.

Ron

[Ron]

....you wrote:
"why cant everyone leave the ethnicities behind and just be burners"

Only white people have the luxury to say this.

Bullshit. No one has the luxury to say that because no one will allow anyone to leave their bodies behind. We are all that pile of flesh that stands before a viewer, and that viewer will create meaning based on what they see. That doesn't say a damn thing about the reality of the piece of meat being viewed, but the meaning that is created by the viewer does say a few things about said viewer.

In any case, none of us apes can leave behind anything about us. All of us can work to be a viewer as open to the *actions* of the piece of meat we view as possible, and to always remember that the meaning we create when we view may have nothing to do with the meaning that the meat intends to create.

What's being "Jewish," mean? As many different things as there are folk who call themselves "Jewish," and folk who look and see "Jewish." And everyone's opinion, especially those that directly conflict, are completely accurate. "Jewish," and all those other lables, are what we make them. Nothing more, nothing less, as far as I can see.

Ron

[Ron]

...BTW, I am aware of the displaced arab population in the Middle East. I just don't call them by the term that y'all have been using. I won't go into the reasons because I want to stop the political conversation now.

Love,
Liz

Refusing to call a population the label it prefers seems wrong headed to me. Like folk who insist on calling gays, "fags," in the name of personal "accuracy."

Respect demands letting folk call themselves what they want, and then using that term when one speaks, seems to me.

Ron

[cowboyangel]

see camp israel? what did I tell ya? opens up a maelstrom of controversy...but hey burners are truth advocates wouldn't you say?

[lizwiz]

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

[cowboyangel]

http://www.tikkun.org/index.cfm/action/ ... palestine/

ask Michael Lerner about Israel and Palestine.....

[DVD Burner]

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Lets be very precise:

when Isreal was created according to the CIA.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/is.html

also another one.

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:MG ... magazine/l
inks/issue51/articles/51_10-11.pdf+creation+of+israel+cia+&hl=en

The CIA's involvement in training Palestinian snipers. (published by an Israeli publisher.) http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/israel/0612002.html


some more accurate information by librarians ( the library, what a concept.
Have you ever heard of a library?)
http://lii.org/search?searchtype=subjec ... ct;subsear
ch=Arab-Israeli+conflict

the tracking of Palestinian deaths statistics by the red cross.

http://www.palestinercs.org/Latest_Cris ... Graphs.htm


I've already gone over this topic many many times. Now you've made this thread political on your own. suffer at your own expense.


I tried to tell you but what the hey. You're from Texas. it's to be expected.

[DVD Burner]

personally speaking Burningman does'nt need your kind. they have plenty of killer DJ's. But I do not speak for them.

[bullD]

Everybody makes a good point in their own way, Ron especially.

Thank you SparkleTart for pointing out my spelling errors. Are you going to be at BurningMan this year? If yes, I want to hang out with you for a while. My many experiences at BM have been filled with a love and respect for others not felt any where else. I would be genuinely interested to know what you're experience is. Also, your, or is it you're, blahh, original post started wonderfully except you didn't say what WAS offensive about Lizwiz's statements. Give an idea about what is on you're mind and people can positively react, give a shallow statement that leaves people guessing and expect nothing in return.

DVDBurner, WORD, yes CowboyAngel did wisely do just that,,, touche. And, thank you for now trying to point out what is bothering you. Can you be more specific though? I think that would help.

Cowboyangel, speaking of genocide and occupation is really not appropriate in the realm of BM, don't you think? If we were talking the United States, the U.K., Iraq, S. Africa, Spain, uhh,,, I could go on and on, but where would that get me in this thread which, as I saw it, originally, was about a party on the playa, Israeli style. And yes, I believe Lizwiz is simply extolling her jewishness so please, enough with the I told you so mentality. I KNOW you are capable of more than that. Also,,, we leave our flags behind? Again, is this mandatory? What if I was a very proud Irish man who did all things Irish at BurningMan? C'mon,,, are we to expell camps that have an ethnic/culture leaning? I agree that we are one bonded group of folks on the playa but, this does not mean that we leave WHO we are behind. SparkleTart, who has never been to BM, is smart enough to know and alludes to the fact that if we were all the same then there most likely would be some "brainwashing" going on, not to mention a fucking boring event. We are all different and that definately means differences on the playa. If we were not different, BORING! Sorry, redundant. BM reminds me of when the earthquake of 1989 hit in San Francisco. That night and for the next few days, what I experienced was similar to BM. The large, diverse, population of SF felt as one. We, not all of us, survived the quake, TOGETHER. And we felt this oneness in our hearts even though we were all very different.
OK, storytelling time is over...

Lizwiz, you have left a link to a web-site, I did read it. This is somebody's opinion of the history of the area in conversation. There ARE other opinions. Leave this type of posting out of this thread. Listen,,, just get on with you're jewish/Israeli party camp. I would love to experience this along with many others. Open eyes to what you're culture has to offer BM regarding fun factor and spirituality rather than what is being unfortunatley focused on here.

OK, goodnight all. I mean it this time.

[DVD Burner]

Ok, Just to make things really clear because the link that Liz-NON-wiz posted is not so accurate. Here is how the world works:

Following World War II, the British withdrew from their mandate of Palestine, and the UN partitioned the area into Arab and Jewish states, an arrangement rejected by the Arabs.Subsequently, the Israelis defeated the Arabs in a series of wars without ending the deep tensions between the two sides. The territories occupied by Israel since the 1967 war are not included in the Israel country profile, unless otherwise noted. On 25 April 1982, Israel withdrew from the Sinai pursuant to the 1979 Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty. Outstanding territorial and other disputes with Jordan were resolved in the 26 October 1994 Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace. In addition, on 25 May 2000, Israel withdrew unilaterally from southern Lebanon, which it had occupied since 1982. In keeping with the framework established at the Madrid Conference in October 1991, bilateral negotiations were conducted between Israel and Palestinian representatives (from the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip) and Syria to achieve a permanent settlement. On 24 June 2002, US President Bush laid out a "road map" for resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which envisions a two-state solution. However, progress toward a permanent status agreement has been undermined by the outbreak of Palestinian-Israeli violence since September

[DVD Burner]

Funny part is I dont trust the CIA but when it comes to this information, it describes the situation exactly as I've known it since I was raised as a kid with Jews many years ago.

[moshe!]

[quote="cowboyangel"]Israel is associated with spirituality and unfortunately also with brutal occupation, and genocide of Palestinians (Jenin, Shavron and Shatila e.g.)

Genocide?

"gen·o·cide   n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group."

Are you kidding? Its this kind of hot air rhetoric that simplifies and dumbs this whole disscussion down into the kind of black/white, good/bad bullshit that both sides crave so much. Palestinians bad, israelis good. Israelis bad, palestinians good. Who are we kidding? Using big bad words like genocide and aparthied get peoples attention even while they have nothing to do with describing the situation at hand. Its like intelectual engine revving. Use facts not fireworks. Or better yet, stop talking about this and lets just focus on somthing we all have in common: Burning Man.
(BTW- human rights watch determined that there never was any large scale loss of life in Jenin)

[DVD Burner]

Genocide?

"gen·o·cide   n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group."

Dood, I like you and have gotten your back on eplaya when you have done some narley jokes. But this time you are wrong.
Amazing how there are no pics on American search engines of the atrocities being done to Palestine. But yes, Sharone is doing some outrageous shit to Palestine. Soon there will be no if not very little Palestinians in Palestine. Similar to the Shinicocks on long island. (now the Shinicock golf course.)
Hope their history is not erased (almost) as the Shinicocks (and various natives.)

They are doing what the Shinicocks couldn't.

Very little info on the Shinicocks on the internet. Please do some research. Eplayans pride themselfs on acurate cites. That's what makes Eplaya awsome.