Camp Israel is looking for participants, sound system, djs

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:21 pm

well, you had to see it coming.

In one section of the board you have the camp leader posting the massive 2 page listing of all the cool shit they were gonna have

In another section of the board you have the camp leader posting a massive list of stuff that she needs you to bring.

The lists were remarkably similar.

Still, I am sorry they did not achieve quite what they wanted.

sparkletarte · Post by **sparkletarte** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:22 pm

Thanks for the update- I too was wondering what happened. I hope they weren't too disappointed and still had a good time.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:24 am

i'm just really sorry that there haven't been good conversations here... i mean, in a way there have.. but there was a LOT of space for several sides and points of view to come together on these boards over this issue.

i don't know if it's because LizWiz or actual Israelis were put off by some of the posts, or because they don't give a shit, or because they don't want to discuss it, or some combination of these and other reasons, but we all really missed out.

i guess, considering Camp Israel's fate, I won't worry too much about having forgotten about it completely.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:39 am

keep in mind that she simply came here to let folks know about a camp she was gonna do and to try and get some help doing it. Then came the wacky accusations. Then came her funky point of view. It is important to note that she was not pushing political point of view until she was, IMNSHO, attacked without reason.

To say that you care deeply about this issue is a gross understatment. Others do not or certainly do not to the extent that you do. This board is called the eplaya. I want to know what opportunity we missed here? I am not surprised that LizWiz did not return. All she really wanted to do was promote her camp. Do I think her views on mideast politics are fucked? Yes, absolutely. However, we need not have known that. What was gained in this context?

I think it is a shame that someone came to try to get a camp together and got shouted down for reasons that were irrelevant to the issue at hand. For fucks sake, don't we want more people participating?

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:19 pm

More people participating? Lots of people think the event has gotten too big already. Myself, I'm agnostic.

Also, she bit off more then she could chew. If she wanted to have a big assed camp, she should have had a big assed infrastructure lined up instead of depending on a bunch of people she'd never met before to supply 80% of what she needed to realize her vision.

I'm not sure we missed out on anything. There's plenty of places to debate American/Isreali/Palestinian politics.

It is nice to live in a place where politics, for most part, doesn't get you killed. Yet.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:05 pm

oi. here you go again, Stu.

It's not that it *should* have happened here or that it was *meant* to.
You might even note that until people start saying things that are fuck-witted, i generally don't jump on them. Even been known to defend them, but it's not a good flame war so nobody notices.

But if there's one place where a lot of the problems in the world could be lessened, and understood, it's probably in the burner community. It at least has the potential for making some start.

I like opportunities to find commonalities. Yeah, i can discuss politics anywhere. But then again, that's not what i'm talking about now, is it?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:19 pm

here you go again, Stu.

I'm not sure what you mean by that but it seems rather bush like.

I think, looking at the first couple of salvos, that there was no attempt at finding commonality. No real invitation to discussion. It was knee-jerk popcorn politics. I think there were only attempts at scorn.

Rian, I am not accusing you in this. The guilty party(ies) know who they are. Well, maybe not but it is there in the record. We will have to disagree on weather geopolitical issues can be helped by any discussion here. However, as you have much more first hand knowledge, I will defer.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:40 pm

stuart wrote:However, as you have much more first hand knowledge, I will defer.

ummm.. of some things... and definitely not others... but there's no reason to defer here.
quit trying to kiss up, i already love you.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:52 pm

you are irksome

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:30 pm

You know I traced this thread down on page 8 and "reopened" it with some dread hoping no one would bring up the political angle again.There is no use going over the same argument HERE anymore.There are plenty of blogs out there for that kind of back and forth.
I just thought Camp Israel was a rather stark example of wildly ambitious and publicly announced plans(see page 1 of thread) coming to uhhhhhh ,less than fruition.Nothing to do with the political nature of the camp.I would have pedaled out to Camp Hedon From The Planet Wanton too.
And yes,like Stuart,I read and answered her companion posts requesting(as gifts it seems),large amounts of shelter,power,light.and sound.That is what made the trip out to Lizwiz's camp so intriguing.Wanted to see exactly what faith and naivety could kick up in unforgiving BRC.
Maybe someone else can redirect this thread to "had a camp idea nothing came together but still had a great time"thread.In memory of Club Chai.

CoworkerLurker · Post by **CoworkerLurker** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:55 pm

stuart wrote:
here you go again, Stu.
I'm not sure what you mean by that but it seems rather bush like.

Actually, more of a Reaganism, wouldn't you say?

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:51 am

stuart wrote:you are irksome

no doubt.
but this time?
rather agreeable, rather.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:15 am

more of a Reaganism

clearly you did not see bush debates circa 2000. Although he pulled that line out again Arizona as well.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:32 am

stuart wrote:
more of a Reaganism

clearly you did not see bush debates circa 2000. Although he pulled that line out again Arizona as well.

Well the news that he cribs from Ronnie is hardly new. And I've given up on the debates. They used to be semi-real back in the League of Women Voters day. Now. . . Mind-boggling banal. Oh well. Once had a friend who could never again look a Belgian Endive in the face after the 1988 debates.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:48 am

i s'pose you're gonna drag this out until i say something about being peeved about the comparison to Republican nitwits?

perhaps i shan't give you the pleasure.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:47 pm

They used to be semi-real back in the League of Women Voters day

I hear you but I think it not too accurate to tout what is a very familair pacifica refrain.

While the debate format is certainly watered down and the dems and reps figured out it was harmful to them to allow 3rd party folks in with all the havoc Ross caused, I still found them to be compelling. I also feel they were real debates. One party asked a question, then an exchange of rebuttals. What illustrated this most clearly was the change in tenor of Bush between when he had to answer questions and when he was allowed to deliver his prepared closing statements. It was scary to see the transformation.

I hear ya though

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:13 pm

stuart wrote:What illustrated this most clearly was the change in tenor of Bush between when he had to answer questions and when he was allowed to deliver his prepared closing statements. It was scary to see the transformation.

And that may be part of my problem. There comes a point when it just seems like pointless ritual--and I'm refusing to be drawn in. At least there was that shining moment when Lloyd Bensen killed Dan Quayle's political career, but ordinarily there's this sort of feeling of dislocation when a politician seems really creepy to me and STILL wins the election. It may simply be my protecting myself from stress.

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:34 pm

Here's a little anecdote - a little something that happened during Isreali/Palestinian talks...

Yassir Arafat was sitting with the Prime Minister of Israel and they were talking about land issues - obviously - and the Prime Minister offered this parable.

"Moses was bathing near Gaza one afternoon and when he came to shore, he noticed his clothes were missing. When he asked a passerby if he had seen Moses' clothes, the man pointed at another and said 'See that Palestinian over there?"

Arafat stopped the Prime Minister and said, "Wait, wait...This cannot be. There were no Palestinians in Israel in the time of Moses."
The Prime Minister replied "Exactly."

The great thing about being me is that I have no time nor concern for the inevitable flaming this will incur! Ta - ta...

Love you all and miss everyone; school is eating up ALL OF MY TIME. I just thought I'd come by and stir the shit pot.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:54 pm

zorro sings wrote:This camp stirred up so much controversy on this board and the plans were so grand that I had to take a ride out to Camp Israel while at this years Burn and see how it all turned out.After a long bike ride to the furthest reaches of BRC I came across a huge piece of real estate marked by a sign on the ground and a wind torn Israeli flag.The entire area was populated by two cars and a small sleeping tent.That was it.Didn't know whether to laugh or cry but the pathos was striking and it remains one of my most vivid images of BM '04.

WOHA!

Ok,
I came in kinda late on this one but I just could'nt imagine this thread would ever come back up. Especially since the OP gave me so much shit in the first place.

Let me see now...........I think what it was that I said was.....

"from Texas."

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:50 pm

I remember having such a similar experience to the one DVD Burner quoted.

We were camped nearby, sort of, at 8:30 and Urectum and we rode over because my friend Jake is Jewish and had just recently visited Israel so he was very interested. I told him, "dude...There were problems - the chick running it posted it on the e-playa a week or so ago...It's not going to be much..." He didn't care so we rode out and there it was. A couple tents, a cooking pot, some mats on the ground, and some RUGGED looking Israelis and Liz. Liz was great, the Israelis were good people, and the whole thing struck me as being just as right as it could have been. Wandering Jews in the desert stop for a week for a moon festival...
There were two cars and what seemed like too many people to fit with the gear they had brought - it gave the impression that some of them must have walked in from somewhere else on the playa...It was just weird. And right. It's one of the moments I'll always remember from '04, too.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:24 pm

so, as I read your apocryphal story, I can only take it to mean you wish all judeo-christians expelled from the americas as well. Or is it only that we are looking to the bible to determine global property rights.

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:33 pm

Nah, Stu...Not all Judeo - Christians. Religion has nothing to do with it. It's about ancient ties to the land, which presumably is the point you're fumbling your way through. That's a silly asumption. Jew, Muslim, Christian, Pluralist, Egoist, Pantheist, Solopist...nah, nevermind...the Solopists have to go...everyone else can stay.

All you honkies and other imports have to get out, though. Me, I'm lucky. I don't have to far to go. Just south of the border, homie. Let's call it, instead of Judeo-Christians - EurAfroAsians. Git! Skat! Go on home. Shoo! That includes you, Stu.

You want a little reductio ad absurdum? You got it.[/url]

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:58 pm

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:35 am

The great thing about being me is that I have no time nor concern for the inevitable flaming this will incur!

your credibility is shot

anyway, I'll try another tack

you mention ancient ties to the land

despite culture, how do you determine the difference between Arabs native to region and sephardic jews? And certainly the ashkenazi jews have no ancient ties to the land whatsoever; they're fucking europeans. Not only that, they have a history of discrimination against their sephardic brothers.

so Sam thanks for helping me fumble my way to the point.

[/quote]

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:23 am

Is it possible that at least some palestinians are descended from jews that managed to evade explusion?

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:42 pm

I too went to the Israli camp in search of my fellow tribe. I found it the first day empty. I felt sad they had not made it. I went the second, again an empty barren wasteland. One last attempt the following day and I saw a few cars a few tents and no one there. I was supposed to be there for Shabbot but after so many attempts I was disheartened. When I returned to my own camp at the Black Rock Gazette I relayed my story to some of the others in my camp and to my surprize I found out there were others there that were members of tribe as well.

You can search far and wide for something, some place to belong, for connection and in that search you sometimes forget to look in the first place you started, at home, or where you are standing right then and there.

I had a lovely Shabbot. In the mornings I blew my Shofar to ready for the new year. I felt silly, mainly cause I am a lousey blower. Never-the-less I found peace where I was.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:16 pm

spectabillis wrote:
lizwiz wrote:The purpose of the camp is to promote Jewish Awareness to the Burning Man community at large and to provide a place for Jews to gather.
Are Palestinians invited?

You know people, the most shocking thing about this... it was meant as a joke.

To think those small 3 words caused so much.

playawedding · Post by **playawedding** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:54 am

I will be *staging* a Jewish wedding on the playa (you are all invited). my entire family from PA and CT will be flying in. Will there be any Rabbis there that could marry us? Thanks!

DROWNINGTHEMIND · Post by **DROWNINGTHEMIND** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:56 pm

Is this all a joke? I hope so.....the only thing any orgnaized religion has ever done is cause wars, fighting and killing...and I thought we were supposed to be leaving all those differences behind at burning man?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:12 pm

DROWNINGTHEMIND wrote:Is this all a joke? I hope so.....the only thing any orgnaized religion has ever done is cause wars, fighting and killing...and I thought we were supposed to be leaving all those differences behind at burning man?

RTFO!

You know something, I have been saying that since I've been on this board. Politics does the same thing.

I think religion is just a Shortcut to enlightenmentanyway and have posted this video lesson a bunch of times because not only do I belive it to be true but I've written about it in so many ways in so many mediums.

Camp Israel is looking for participants, sound system, djs

~

Re: Camp Israel is looking for participants, sound system, d

Need a Rabbi!!