Why is Burning Man so white?

[theCryptofishist]

I'll add my 2 cents to this

As a man of color, my only *real* concern about going to BM was wondering if there was any Nazi skinhead, KKK types there. I've been told time, and time again that *those* type of people don't / or haven't showen them selfs at the event. So, i'll be going.

As far as the whole "black people don't camp"... , whatever. I'm not the biggest fan of camping, only cause everytime i've gone in the past, i seem to get sick. But that's me. I have an Uncle that we call Grizzly Adams , cause he's a real outdoorsman.

See ya on the Playa.

On the other (third) hand, there was an article on black cowboys and the local Juneteenth celebration in the paper yesterday.

(not that being a cowboy is actually the same as camping.)

[dragonfly Jafe]

another good book to read is "Guns, Germs, & Steel" that delves into possible reasons for technological superiority of one race over the others (hint: has nothing to do with race or genetics, more blind luck)

In my mind race is irrelevent at Burning Man. The sun, dust, & rain are equally harsh and unforgiving to all, and by the end of the week we are all the same shade of dusty light brown anyways.

A more important factor is your mindset. You are either "of the BM herd" or "not of the BM herd", and this depends on how you view situations and react to them more than how you look or sound. If you act appropriately you are included, if you act inappropriately you are excluded.

example: Your neighbor (who has been up all night and just dragged back in) asks you nicely to turn down your stereo playing moderately loud at 8am because he needs some sleep. What do you do?

a) turn it up!
b) tell him to read the back of his ticket and turn away
c) turn it down a little, then start your generator to make coffee
d) turn it down and serve Emergen-C in bed with an aspirin to your new found Playa-friend

I suggest that this test (and many more like it) could be used as a much better litmus test to judge one's inner self than exterior qualities such as skin color, hair color, etc.

Another question is why is the ratio of Yahoo's to Realburners growing? and how can we reverse this trend? I maybe going out on a limb, but I would guess that there are more white yahoo's at BurningMan than any other (irrelevent) color. I have never met a non-white burner at Burning Man I did not like (at least a little), but I have met plenty of whites I despise. Why is that? Because the majority of people are white, so it is "safer" for whites to be @ssholes? Maybe that could also help explain why the number of male yahoo's far exceeds the number of female yahoo's...or maybe I'm just rambling.

regards, Jafe

[theCryptofishist]

I maybe going out on a limb, but I would guess that there are more white yahoo's at BurningMan than any other (irrelevent) color. I have never met a non-white burner at Burning Man I did not like (at least a little), but I have met plenty of whites I despise. Why is that? Because the majority of people are white, so it is "safer" for whites to be @ssholes?

My working assumption for a few years now, both on and off play is that "white male privledge" can be a factor. If you haven't really had to work from the other end, you don't know just how icky it is. You just enjoy the bennies without seeing the cost (even to yourself.) I don't want to over-emphasize the "bonding in the face of oppression" factor, but it can be real. Nothing like being on the short end of power plays to make you question power relations in general.

(And no, not all white men are "privledged" and not all minorities are beatified.)

[stuart]

Another question is why is the ratio of Yahoo's to Realburners growing?

is it? or is that a common missperception?

[dragonfly Jafe]

Stuart, you may be right. But for me the last 3 years have seen worsening behaviour by both neighbors and at the burn. Maybe my first few years I just got lucky where I camped and who I was next to at the burn. I hope you are right. Of course, all things are cyclical, so hopefully attitudes will only improve as burns continue.

Crypto - I think you may be on to something. Priviledge does breed contempt. Do you think white folk are priviledged over non-white folk at BM? (not talking about proportional representation, but how white vs. non-white are treated and exist)

Should the proportion of races at BM reflect the relative proportion nationwide (the affirmative action thing)? If BM doesn't, does that make it an evil place?

[theCryptofishist]

Crypto - I think you may be on to something. Priviledge does breed contempt. Do you think white folk are priviledged over non-white folk at BM? (not talking about proportional representation, but how white vs. non-white are treated and exist)

I haven't experienced white vs. non-white as an issue on playa. It's a sort of non-issue amoung much of the crowd, the persons of color are there by choice and self-confident enough to deal with it--as far as I can tell. And there is a definate renouncement of privledge at BM (or maybe it's a different sort of privledge, I'm not sure. I mean, ask Trey about golf carts.) Mostly, I think that like so many things there, the lazy old assumptions just don't automatically apply. And with the large proportion of artists, you're talking about a non-privledged population, anyway. I wouldn't be surprized to hear that persons of color have a different take, I think that despite the great relaxation around many sexuality issues on-playa, for instance, there is still some amount of "queer/breeder" tension. It happens that proportionally speaking that there are more queers than persons of color and that may be why we hear about it. Also, there are for instance a fair number of Japanese attendees. I think that gets to a different dynamic, because they are used to being the privledged at home, but they are also used to being polite. I'm sure it plugs into a lot of other stuff than the usual USA racial tensions.

[jbelson]

My thought's, and I'm being completely honest and generalizing about the whole thing:

Black people are a clean people. They take pride in their appearance and how they look. You cant really do that too well in the desert, there's no fricken showers!!! It's also hot and dusty and it really dries the skin. Black people fight getting "ashy", and thats all they'd become on the playa. I'm white as hell and I get ashy!
There's a lot of gay, white dudes walking around naked. That right there will keep 99% of black people away.
Plus there's 1,000's of white people that cant dance. Black people aren't down with the rythemless nation.
And lastly, disposible income. White people proportionately have more.

Okay, you can now BLAST me.

[zzberlin]

> There's a lot of gay, white dudes walking around naked. That right there will keep 99% of black people away.

That's kind of an interesting point.
But I'd say that the gay white naked dudes
will keep away 99% of the black guys away.
I doubt black women are as freaked out
by gay naked guys. But then what do I know
as a white chick?

[Ron]

I see your point.

Cool.

:)

But you have also made mine to a degree.

those breeding pools spent enough time in climates featuring different exposure to sunlight to allow some adapation to that climate.

The original point was offered as a basis for making a claim on what race was indigenous to a locale. That which has shown characteristics adapted to the region was my response.

Actually, as memory serves the orginal words used, and that I reacted to, were that a breeding population that displayed "racial traits," that appeared to be adapted to a location should be considered native. My point had nothing to do with what definition of "native," one chooses, they're all arbtrary after all, but with what one considered a "racial trait." See what I'm saying?

But, in any case, I'll buy the idea that "native breeding pools" are so defined when that population has been in a location long enough to show evolutionary adaptations to that environment. Even if I'll also point out that figuring out what adaptations are DNA based and what ones are the result of environment can be tricky. Even height has as much to do with the health and nutrition of the populaion as it does with the population's genetics...

Ron, caught up in a hobby....

[maleably]

white people are more likely to be hedonists. we're american's, we like to see frontiers. asians like white people cause they're hedonists. who doesn't love sandy snot rockets? everybody but white people and the few asians that come along for the ride.

generalizations can be taken one of three ways:

in the butt
in the ear out the other
to heart

i've never been to burning man. this will be my first. i'm half white and half asian. that makes no difference. i'm still annoying and kind of freaky. why i'm going? cause of a white guy.

[actiongrl]

I reiterate and paraphrase a point made earlier: let's all fuck until we look the same.

[DVD Burner]

I reiterate and paraphrase a point made earlier: let's all fuck until we look the same.

I'm totally down for that. (well not so much the fucking part.........who am I kidding.)




Woo Hoo.

[Lilly Flower]

Lets breed some smart people.




My goodness.

[Captain Goddammit]

Hey Lilly, you provide the looks and I'll provide the brains and...

well, that might not work...

[sparkletarte]

I reiterate and paraphrase a point made earlier: let's all fuck until we look the same.

No, how boring! Well, the looking the same part. How about if we respect each other for who we are and what we look like- celebrate our differences and learn from each other. I'm so not into the melting pot philosophy. Hi, multi-cultural-loving Canadian here.

[stuart]

hey dragonfly,

when I said 'is that a common misperception' it was not rhetorical. I would really like to know. I am not sure.

[dragonfly Jafe]

Stuart - from my perspective, there is a change in attendance happening. The ratio of experienced to virgin Burners is decreasing. This is inevitable, and reflects the growth of the event. Good? Bad? who knows. It certainly means more people are experiencing Burning Man.

One of the indicators to me is the music played. years ago I never heard "mainstream" music while on Playa. The last few years have seen an increase in "mainstream" music played (not saying this is bad, just saying).

Another factor is clothing - I saw more street clothes last year than ever before (starting about thursday). Looked like spring break in florida!

But there are positive signs also;

There is also a "raising of the bar" happening on Esplanade. Camps are having to do more with less to get Esplanade space (I think this is definately good...)

I also perceive that some of the art is getting better (the really big stuff. Temple of Gravity was awesome last year), while the low end is getting less (more newbies are bringing their version of art). The last few years have even seen roller coasters (some have even worked!)

While it is too early to tell, it seems that Mutant vehicles will be much better this year than last due to the DMV's efforts (although this is only because the low end is getting chopped at the gate this year)

So it seems like maybe the crusty burners are getting more crusty but fewer, while the majority of the burners are enthusiastic but less than crusty. Maybe virgins just need a big brother/big sister to make sure they grow up right.

YMMV - Jafe

[Simply Joel]

i think i will visit the desert without 30,000 of my closest burner friends... maybe a different weekend.

[blyslv]

. So here's the question to that: Since the human race has mostly removed itself from the process of natural selection/refinement, that's pretty much stopped.

That's a breathtaking statement! Do you have any cites? This month's Discovery has an article on autism, and the notion that autism is a mutation is advanced (and quickly poo-poo-ed). But do you have any real evidence that humans have stopped mutating? Just becasue a very small set of rich people can trump infertility doesn't mean that the species has stopped reacting to environmental stresses.

[blyslv]

1--I think that most discussions of race are greatly helped by an attitude that we have all grown up in an incidiously racist culture and carry the scars and damage (whether or not we are ideologically racist.) (Of course it's different for those that are not from the States.)

If you think the USA has a monopoly on racism, you need to get out more my friend. Check out what is happening in Sudan for just one nasty example. Check out the discussion about the Isreal camp for another. Look at how the Spanish and native American gleefully slaughtered each other before America existed for yet a third. sheesh.

[DVD Burner]

Check out the discussion about the Isreal camp for another.

Wow! I'm actually amazed you would have said something like that. I thought you were Pro Isreal camp.

[blyslv]

If what little I know about the migration of peoples out of africa a gazillion years ago holds true then the genetic analysis you are citing seems quite predictable.

An article a few years back said that all Europeans came from a "genetic bottleneck" of ~1000 people. That would mean the aprox. 300 million euros and aprox. 200 million americans of european descent have roughly 1000 ancestors in common.

Now that's reason to celebrate diversity!

[theCryptofishist]

If you think the USA has a monopoly on racism, you need to get out more my friend.

Skoooozeee. I should have said something like
1--I think that most discussions of race are greatly helped by an attitude that we have all grown up in an incidiously racist culture and carry the scars and damage (whether or not we are ideologically racist.) (Of course it's different for those that are not from the States. They have thier own incredibly complicated nuances on the questions of difference however defined within thier own cultures and all cultures are different, ligitemate and racist as Strom Thurmond.)



Besides, I thought Fanta Se was in Moo NexiCo

[Bob]

The US has no monopoly on white guilt, and Burning Man has no monopoly on aping non-white cultures -- news at eleven.

[blyslv]

If you think the USA has a monopoly on racism, you need to get out more my friend.

Skoooozeee. I should have said something like
1--I think that most discussions of race are greatly helped by an attitude that we have all grown up in an incidiously racist culture and carry the scars and damage (whether or not we are ideologically racist.) (Of course it's different for those that are not from the States. They have thier own incredibly complicated nuances on the questions of difference however defined within thier own cultures and all cultures are different, ligitemate and racist as Strom Thurmond.)



Besides, I thought Fanta Se was in Moo NexiCo

I just can't accept that. It makes me guilty of crimes I didn't commit. It strikes me as dangerous groupthink and I don't think it advances the discussion or the issue of race relations.

[DVD Burner]

If you think the USA has a monopoly on racism, you need to get out more my friend.

Skoooozeee. I should have said something like
1--I think that most discussions of race are greatly helped by an attitude that we have all grown up in an incidiously racist culture and carry the scars and damage (whether or not we are ideologically racist.) (Of course it's different for those that are not from the States. They have thier own incredibly complicated nuances on the questions of difference however defined within thier own cultures and all cultures are different, ligitemate and racist as Strom Thurmond.)



Besides, I thought Fanta Se was in Moo NexiCo

I just can't accept that. It makes me guilty of crimes I didn't commit. It strikes me as dangerous groupthink and I don't think it advances the discussion or the issue of race relations.

Seems to me it's all a matter of lack of foresight. Thinking ahead so that mistakes dont get revisited on future siblings can make for a better future. That should relive the guilt factor, you think?

[theCryptofishist]

I just can't accept that. It makes me guilty of crimes I didn't commit. It strikes me as dangerous groupthink and I don't think it advances the discussion or the issue of race relations.

I don't deny that racism is a far-flung problem. One of the dreary things I find about lefty discussions is the long disclaimers and circuitious language that one ends up using to make sure that there isn't somesort of misstatement implied by a third-generation dirivative of your remark. I'm actually somewhat good at it (10 years in the Berkeley public schools was a rigourous training ground) but after a while you spend so much time defining your terms that you can never have a productive discussion. That is what my remark was aimed at.

[blyslv]

I just can't accept that. It makes me guilty of crimes I didn't commit. It strikes me as dangerous groupthink and I don't think it advances the discussion or the issue of race relations.

I don't deny that racism is a far-flung problem. One of the dreary things I find about lefty discussions is the long disclaimers and circuitious language that one ends up using to make sure that there isn't somesort of misstatement implied by a third-generation dirivative of your remark. I'm actually somewhat good at it (10 years in the Berkeley public schools was a rigourous training ground) but after a while you spend so much time defining your terms that you can never have a productive discussion. That is what my remark was aimed at.

I resent your use of the proto-Capatlist term "productive discussion." Non-hegomonic discourse can only proceed without reference to outdated economic concepts like "productivity".

[unjonharley]

plonk

[blyslv]

'Bout time I earned one of those.