A Rotten, Stinking Burning Man Experience

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:40 pm

Rope and bungees are cheap. Not securing your load properly leaves you open to all sorts of legal nightmares which $20 and a few minutes of time can so easily prevent.

Is an $80 bottle of cologne worth wrecking a $20K or $30K vehicle over? Is it worth taking the risk? I still say no. That's another thing that's been on my mind when I wrote that. I get my car out of the shop tomorrow night. A simple rear end collision cost about $8K to fix. That's another reason why I'm leery of stopping in traffic lanes, heck even turn lanes now. You never know what the other driver will do and how they'll react...and over a few personal items someone could end up getting killed. It's just not worth it. I'm sorry but as much as I want to be nice and not be an ass about this, I can't do it.

And Unjun, I put extra lights on my trailer too with summit climbs and descents in mind. Those lights saved my ass this year on Soldier Summit / US-6 in Utah when people misjudged the end of the passing lanes going down the West side of the pass. And I also came within a few inches of being rear-ended by a sports car climbing Parley's Summit on I-80 heading home. The lights made the difference as he woke up at the last minute and swerved hard to keep from hitting me...and I was in the slow lane with flashers no less. I guess the brightness finally got to him and woke him up.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:40 pm

probably right, and a pain in my own ass at the moment.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:41 pm

dplaya, you are acting impetuously my friend, and you are not even reading the posts you are responding to. slow down. read iso's post. he/she says what you say with a respectful tone. do what you will. carry on.

I think the reasonable thing is not to stop in such a risky situation but to slow down so that the risk of injury is less to those who have stopped. no point getting your panties into a bunch over it and please disagree if you must, but please try to disagree without flaming or losing your cool. can you hear me now dplaya?

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:46 pm

spectabillis wrote:*sigh*

I think you missed the point DallasPlaya, I am not talking about helping them out or not. My point is how you make your comments. This is a big difference which I pointed out, but since you choose to not reply to my PM I am making it here.

And I corrected you on what you call people, I hope you are not trying to back out of saying something you did.

So...it's OK for him to call us names for not risking our lives to save his precious cologne but not OK for us to tell him he's stupid for thinking so? The intent of my original post was to help the guy understand that he wasn't being slighted. I was trying to make the guy feel better about what happened based on the practical considerations. We picked up a hitchhiker at the gate even though there was potential risk to us -- but we did so because it was worth the risk. Some personal items are not worth risking other people's lives. He chose to refuse to admit he might be wrong about how he feels. That's stupid.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:52 pm

ubu wrote:dplaya, you are acting impetuously my friend, and you are not even reading the posts you are responding to. slow down. read iso's post. he/she says what you say with a respectful tone. do what you will. carry on.

I think the reasonable thing is not to stop in such a risky situation but to slow down so that the risk of injury is less to those who have stopped. no point getting your panties into a bunch over it and please disagree if you must, but please try to disagree without flaming or losing your cool. can you hear me now dplaya?

OK, so, if I fuckup at Burning Man and no one helps me I should be pissed off at the people who didn't help me. Got it. I'm learning so much about the community today after 8 years of being involved in Burning Man. Thanks!

Oh by the way, I lost my flashlight out on the playa Saturday night. I think it's really shitty that no one turned it in to lost and found. I guess those people who spent part of their day Sunday and Monday picking up MOOP are not real burners.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:17 pm

Since you cared enough to repeat my name over and over again in your post, I will reply.

Had your initial post or your later reply even briefly used phrases like "I'm sorry I didn't tie it down properly" or "I'm glad nobody got hurt" I might have had more sympathy. Instead, it was simply >I< had this bad thing happen, it was totally out of my control, and everyone should have put themselves at risk to help >ME< and >MY< expensive cologne. Anyone who doesn't agree that my inconvenience is the most important thing is an inconsiderate ass who is not worthy to attend Burning Man. I mean, the lady should have at least looked to see if it was nice stuff before running it over, right?

I've pulled over onto enough solid-looking shoulders that turned out to be loose sand to decide that I will never pull onto one unless I'm confident doing so will actually do more good than harm, and a bottle of conditioner that's already being picked up by someone else does not qualify. If there were life and limb or even a broken down car involved, that's a different story. I've certainly pulled over in those situations before and will continue to.

If you're going to go on the "see everything from my perspective" trip at least give it a shot yourself first!

What facts do you think we're missing that might have changed our minds? Did any of the people who you're praising take the time to gather more facts or do you simply think they're better people because they agreed with you? I AM seeking to educate. People should tie their shit down and should think very carefully before pulling over or inciting others to do so. If you don't know how to tie your shit down or have a lot of small objects that might shake loose, ask for help.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:40 pm

OK, since this is burnin' like a temple, I'll clarify my side of it a bit - especially since I've cooled down (at work - the clouds came in >>grins<<)...

What I do in the totalfault world is emergency services on a set of shoulderless superfreeway bridges. So I get out there in my little 1 ton Pickup, stop in the live lane of 60 MPH traffic (with all the lights on) and save some poor undfortunate sot's butt. Two of our bridges are adjacent to salt evaporaton ponds (think playa muck x 10) so I know how to judge surfaces and pull onto a soggy shoulder if need be (which is how I knew 447 wasn't as bad as it can get). Plus I do tend to stop and assist rather than zoom on by and do a "less 4 fnger" wave at people having a lousy day...

I don't fault anyone for not stopping, as to some it may have seemed dangerous to stop. What got me was the angry, gotta-haul-ass-and-screw-everyone-else attitude that came at the end of this years burn (even on playa). I mean, you might feel uncomfortable getting out with traffic whizzing by at 60+ or you may not want to risk getting stuck or whatever. so important that instead of slowing down a bit (in case the person tripped or got gusted or whatever) you kept that ol' hammer down? Could you avoid that big-ass sagebrush moop that floated in front of your vehicle (which will do a lot more damage than a Seppuku-bunny)?

There's another thing. Rural NHP and sheriff's out there tend to take driving safely and whatnot real serious. That includes slowing down when approaching an "unusual situation" like the one described above. What if, instead of picking up moopy spillage, their car broke down and then their passenger was having a coronary event and was trying desparately to flag someone down to try to get help? That shit *happens* out there.

Enough Thursday-evening quarterbacking, after all it was all just a moop spill, but it could have been worse. And people could have shown a bit more compassion.

bb

playasnake · Post by **playasnake** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:50 pm

its funny how people complain about not getting help from people from a festival that espouses self reliance.

sure accidents happen, but most accidents are preventable.

you want people to stop? lay out flares and cones 100 and 1000 yards ahead of the incident and make it safe and legal.

with the exception of the 2 or 3 "runways" and the few dirt turnoffs there is no place for anyone to stop along the side of the road between the festival site and 80

if its not a body in the road, im not stopping. I have 33 inches of ground clearance, and tires that would crush a beetle (the volkswagon kind). even i would have issues pulling over on most parts of the highway.

I couldnt believe all the crazy shit i saw in the road this year... i have grown accustomed to seeing the trash on the side, which is sad enough, but im talking about objects in the middle of the road.

echohaus · Post by **echohaus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:36 pm

What an amazing world DallasPlaya must live in, one where nothing breaks, comes undone, goes awry, falls apart, best efforts notwithstanding.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:44 pm

echohaus wrote:What an amazing world DallasPlaya must live in, one where nothing breaks, comes undone, goes awry, falls apart, best efforts notwithstanding.

~
Yes it is, when some one as supid as you post.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:03 pm

echohaus wrote:What an amazing world DallasPlaya must live in, one where nothing breaks, comes undone, goes awry, falls apart, best efforts notwithstanding.

It's great!

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:08 pm

unjonharley wrote:
echohaus wrote:What an amazing world DallasPlaya must live in, one where nothing breaks, comes undone, goes awry, falls apart, best efforts notwithstanding.

~
Yes it is, when some one as supid as you post.

Whee!

echohaus · Post by **echohaus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:16 pm

Name-calling.

Nice.

Here's the rub: You assumed that the load wasn't secured properly. You don't know that, and you'll never know that. Regardless, you ripped someone a new asshole, based on that assumption.
Shit breaks, Shit falls apart. Stuff comes undone. It happens.

Does it make you feel better about yourselves to berate someone on assumptions?

Try not to assume the worst about someone, or everyone.
Both of ya.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:23 pm

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:28 pm

echohaus wrote:
Try not to assume the worst about someone, or everyone.
Both of ya.

You mean like, "Those who did not stop are not real burners"?

Why don't you people understand that I was trying to make the guy feel better about people not stopping by explaining why they didn't stop? Who gives a rat's ass if I was a little short with him. God damn get a life already.

echohaus · Post by **echohaus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:33 pm

A lot of people give a rat's ass about another's approach to them. In some circles, it's called 'diplomacy', and it's usually beneficial. To both sides.You might try it; I'd wager it'd reap some nice rewards for you.
Attitudes like yours are behind a great deal of conflict, and yet people like you don't seem to understand that. It makes for more trouble than was originally around to begin with.
You can't just go throught life shitting on people then telling them to 'get a life already, get over it'.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:37 pm

echohaus wrote:A lot of people give a rat's ass about another's approach to them. In some circles, it's called 'diplomacy', and it's usually beneficial. To both sides.You might try it; I'd wager it'd reap some nice rewards for you.
Attitudes like yours are behind a great deal of conflict, and yet people like you don't seem to understand that. It makes for more trouble than was originally around to begin with.

My attitude is: you fucked up, here's a way to not feel bad about others reacted. My intent was good. I'm sorry that you can't handle being spoken to like an adult.

echohaus · Post by **echohaus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:45 pm

Spoken to, yes. Spoken at, no.

All the adults I know don't talk like you do.
You seem to run counter to some of the spirit of the event, depsite your eight years of it.

It won't kill you to try being nice. Really, I promise.

Steel Kitty · Post by **Steel Kitty** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:49 pm

Black Rock City, NV - (AP) September 4, 2005. [b]A massive 35 trailer pile up on Rt. 447 yesterday killed 15 attendees at the area's popular Burning Man festival held each year outside of Gerlach.[/b] A massive pileup on northbound 447 resulted in the deaths of 35 festival attendees known as "Burners" according to the Nevada State Patrol and Reno Fire and Rescue.

The collisions occurred at about 3:30p.m.on a section of 447 in unincorporated Washoe County near Gerlach, Reno spokeswoman Wendy
Citizen said.

The Nevada State Police are investigating the accident and said the actions of one individual, the number of vehicles and the road density were a major factor.

Trooper Sawit First said heavily laden truck lost some personal effects while driving and the vehicle occupants pulled over quickly to retrieve a small amount of personal effects. One of the occupants was standing in the middle of the road, attempting to wave down vehicles, which caused a rear end collision between two following recreational vehicles, which impacted and crashed into the stopped vehicle, crushing the occupants. The woman was then hit by an RV attempting to avoid the initial accident and was killed instantly. This initial collision caused the chain reaction.

Eighteen motorists were taken by ambulance to the Good Samaritan Medical Center in Reno with minor injuries, while twelve others were pronouced dead at the scene. Traffic was tied up for 23 hours while Troopers tried to move vehicles from the scene.

Due to difficulties in obtaining medical services an additional three motorists died several hours after the accident and additional injuries were reported.

A 46-year-old Los Angeles resident was heading home after a week long celebration when the collisions began."I saw right up in front of me all kinds of cars goingto the left and right crashing into each other," he said.

He was able to brake his Chevy Silverado fast enough to avoid the car in front of him, he said,and was turning around "frantically" to secure his own load when his truck was struck from behind. "I was just trying to avoid that crazy woman trying to pick up her shampoo"

The backwindow of his pickup shattered on impact, he said,spraying glass all over the backseat around him.

The dead will be taken to Reno, Nevada for identification. Next years Burning Man celebration may be impacted by this accident as local lawmakers push for more stringent controls on entry and exit from the festival.

__-sk

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:52 pm

echohaus wrote:Spoken to, yes. Spoken at, no.

All the adults I know don't talk like you do.
You seem to run counter to some of the spirit of the event, depsite your eight years of it.

It won't kill you to try being nice. Really, I promise.

I am nice. I tried to tell the guy why people didn't stop. I'll admit that I am not the most diplomatic guy on the planet, but, so what? IT'S A MESSAGE BOARD. One reason I might be so un-diplomatic is because I hate people who put others at risk. The OP put others at risk by not ensuring that his load was secured. You'd be much less diplomatic if a friend of yours had been killed because of someone else's mistakes. If being a little un-diplomatic helps keep people from being killed, it's worth risking a bunch of people thinking I'm a jerk.

echohaus · Post by **echohaus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:52 pm

I suppose there's no responsibility on the part of the other drivers on the road to watch what's going on around them, be aware, not follow too closely, have a plan, be ready to drive defensively...

echohaus · Post by **echohaus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:54 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:
echohaus wrote:Spoken to, yes. Spoken at, no.

All the adults I know don't talk like you do.
You seem to run counter to some of the spirit of the event, depsite your eight years of it.

It won't kill you to try being nice. Really, I promise.
I am nice. I tried to tell the guy why people didn't stop. I'll admit that I am not the most diplomatic guy on the planet, but, so what? IT'S A MESSAGE BOARD.

So, you're ruder on the 'net than you are in life?
Somehow, I don't see that.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:57 pm

echohaus wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:
echohaus wrote:Spoken to, yes. Spoken at, no.

All the adults I know don't talk like you do.
You seem to run counter to some of the spirit of the event, depsite your eight years of it.

It won't kill you to try being nice. Really, I promise.
I am nice. I tried to tell the guy why people didn't stop. I'll admit that I am not the most diplomatic guy on the planet, but, so what? IT'S A MESSAGE BOARD.
So, you're ruder on the 'net than you are in life?
Somehow, I don't see that.

No. I'm rude to people who put others at risk then cry about not getting help when the fuck up.

Get back to me when you're returning from Burning Man some year and some moron who thinks his shit doesn't stink causes a friend of yours to die.

echohaus · Post by **echohaus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:59 pm

Something tells me you're in a lot of bar fights.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:00 pm

echohaus wrote:Something tells me you're in a lot of bar fights.

No. I just have very little patience for people who put others at unnecessary risk and then complain when they're called on it.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:01 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:Why don't you people understand that I was trying to make the guy feel better about people not stopping by explaining why they didn't stop? Who gives a rat's ass if I was a little short with him. God damn get a life already.

You know exactly what I said so dont try to play it down or change the issue. You have been...

- confrontational and name calling
- denied doing it
- tried to state you were referring to yourself when I corrected you
- then tried to justify it
- now trying to play it off as harmless help

I tried to keep this in PM's so its unfortunate you continue to bring it here, but thats your choice. Unfortunate because you are now in a defensive state and unlikely to listen to anything else thats said to you.

NEXUS · Post by **NEXUS** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:17 pm

Although DallasP has perhaps the subtlety of a hefty sledgehammer, and I wouldn't necessarily run out and nominate him as Ambassador of Goodwill, I do see his point in that judging the attitudes of those who failed to stop as, "ungrateful, self-interested cretins" is about as presumptuous as DallasP's (and others) view of JoeFrank's inability to properly secure his load or assess the situation. Bottom line, the truth no doubt lies somewhere in between, and until which time all parties present that day are round up and subjected to a rigorous polygraph and thorough cross examination, we will most likely never arrive at a conclusion of who was the asshole and who was simply acting in the best interest of all (hoping of course it was more of the latter, but knowing there were likely a few a-holes in there too--or do I now risk sounding presumptuous, or is it balanced?). Let me know when the Gallop poll posts its findings.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:26 pm

spectabillis wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:Why don't you people understand that I was trying to make the guy feel better about people not stopping by explaining why they didn't stop? Who gives a rat's ass if I was a little short with him. God damn get a life already.
You know exactly what I said so dont try to play it down or change the issue. You have been...

- confrontational and name calling
- denied doing it
- tried to state you were referring to yourself when I corrected you
- then tried to justify it
- now trying to play it off as harmless help

I tried to keep this in PM's so its unfortunate you continue to bring it here, but thats your choice. Unfortunate because you are now in a defensive state and unlikely to listen to anything else thats said to you.

Then why don't we just mark it down as a difference in communication styles and call it a day.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:35 pm

Because its more than that if you are dishonest.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:45 pm

spectabillis wrote:Because its more than that if you are dishonest.

Your goal being what?

A Rotten, Stinking Burning Man Experience

It could have read like this...