I never pay. I always sneak into Burning Man

[theCryptofishist]

Did anyone check out the profit margins generated by the Man?

Profit Margins! Profit Margins! *maniacal laughter*

As far as I can tell the LLC breaks even every year. There's a little to set aside as a rainy day fund and that gets subsumed by "Crises de Anno." There's probably a little bit here and there that could be saved and scrimped, but the effort to do that might quickly lead to the law of diminishing returns. I ahve some sympathy for the arguement that people sneaking in reflect the lawlessness of the earlier event, but not so much that I'd ever turn my head--much less abet.

Come right down to it, I've never paid either. But I've put in some serious volenteer work and my husband x2 on that. Yeah, I get a little peeved at some of the expenditures that an organization I volenteer for makes. But I'm willing to say that I couldn't out do the LLC and that my criticism should therefor be taken with a grain of salt. Oh well.

[Q_]

As far as I can tell the LLC breaks even every year. There's a little to set aside as a rainy day fund and that gets subsumed by "Crises de Anno."

http://afterburn.burningman.com/03/financial_intro.html

In 2003 the man walked away with over 400K, opposed to 9K in 2002. That is some pretty darn good business, especialy considering that the 400K is after expenses. Unless I am reading the report wrong. I can't wait to see what the 2004 report looks like, if it is even posted. I am not against the man making a dollar, but to say that they are breaking even might be a little unjustified. I understand that they have in the past, but the man keeps getting bigger and more folks are buying tickets. BM could very easily turn into a serious cash cow for the LLC! Part of burning man is the experimental community:

http://www.burningman.com/whatisburningman/

(I don't want to get into a what is burning man argument)

I think that there are at least two parts to that community, the residents and the management. What we are learning is that what we have always known, absolute power corupts. This is a really interesting fork in the road for the LLC. It has to opportunity to make some serious bank, but at what cost? How is this experiement going to conlcude, will the LLC, create rules and policies that encourage higher profits and attendance, or will they allow the community to grow or decline naturally. Maybe this is the natural course of a community. Perhaps once enough people get together, governments are formed and profits are made. BM has created a representation of civilization, and how humans end up forming their communities....

I think that people sneaking into BM is the natural anti organization element that created BM in the first place. They are to BM what BM is to the "Man". I salute that element... just as I also salute BM....

[tisha2]

first of all...we know this person is full of shite, right?? just trying to get a rise.

but as for the concept, y'all are focusing on the no-ticket part; yay fer the outlaw pranking BMORG. Whatever....i'm on the fence there.

However - how about the part where he "leeches off the supplies off all of us idiots" (or whatever he said to that effect). He's not just fucking the man, my friend....he's fucking YOU.
My first thought was of the cooler of mine that disappeared on Sunday that held the last of my (cold!) beer and the remaining food that was feeding me and my CHILDREN. Could've strangled the fucker that did that if i'd have caught 'em. These fuckoffs don't care who they steal from.

[geekster]

I will personally organize an underground railroad and smuggle in as many people as want to sneak in for $600 each if there are enough takers. $600 just gets you into the event, though, after that you are on your own. Sign me ...

Coyote Jones

[Q_]

Nignog's post is of course created to get a rise out of folks, and it is a very negative approach. However, can you tell me that the jerks that stole your cooler are the same people that sneak into the event? Auto-association leads down a nasty road. Because of the giving nature of many of the people that attend the man, there is a natural attraction from the leach portion of society.

[tisha2]

I do this on principle. I don't believe in giving money to a lame-ass cult that destroys the environment. It's amazing how easy it is to breach BM security, despite all the little brown-shirted Black Rock Rangernazis who are trying to keep people like me out. Once I'm in, I find it very easy to sponge off of all the stupid hippies and ravers that frequent the event--so I don't even bother bringing supplies (except for an emergency supply of water).

I figure that, over the years, I've saved literally thousands of dollars this way. Thank you for subsidizing my Burning Man experience, suckers!

[geekster]

If someone gains entry without paying yet uses the potties and such ... they are already showing that they are willing to steal from the participants. What's a cooler to them? Their entire existance there is based on theft, I don't think it would phase them to steal food and drink. If you are sneaking in you probably can't carry a lot of supplies with you.

Maybe there should be a fenced in (with barbed wire coils) free area. No porta potty, no ice, no water, no entrance into the "pay area". Make it about 8 miles north of the man. Guns allowed, anything goes. They can burn nignog on Saturday night.

Sorry, feeling a bit manic today.

[theCryptofishist]

In 2003 the man walked away with over 400K, opposed to 9K in 2002. That is some pretty darn good business, especialy considering that the 400K is after expenses. Unless I am reading the report wrong. I can't wait to see what the 2004 report looks like, if it is even posted. I am not against the man making a dollar, but to say that they are breaking even might be a little unjustified. I understand that they have in the past, but the man keeps getting bigger and more folks are buying tickets. BM could very easily turn into a serious cash cow for the

From the afterburn report website.

Not only was this extra income an unexpected windfall, it was also a very timely one. Throughout 2003, we were engaged in a protracted political struggle that caused us to spend many thousands of dollars for unanticipated expenses. These costs included fees for attorneys, lobbyists, and design consultants along with wages for laborers salary for a new contractor to handle complex permitting procedures, as well as permit fees and money spent on travel and accommodations while constantly commuting between San Francisco and Reno. These various costs are represented in several categories of the accompanying Chart of Expenditures. The doubling of Utilities expenditures, for example, reflects our effort to dispose of and containerize materials at our Nevada properties. The increase in Outside Services registers the cost of meeting legal and political challenges. The greater cost of Fuel and Rental items is also partially a result of efforts to reorganize our land use

These extra expenses continued into 2004, in fact, including monies spent through January and February to complete required improvements at Black Rock Station, and $134,000 paid for real estate in Gerlach in order to comply with Washoe County land-use regulations. The now dwindling remainder of our windfall was spent for other purposes including doubling of our investment in Internet technology and training in order to create an Extranet that will be used by both the Burning Man organization itself and our Regional Contacts within the Burning Man Network. This money also funded some bonuses for staff members. After one very hectic year, they certainly deserved it. This year, faced with many unexpected pressures and tasks throughout the fall and early winter, we elected not to sell tickets until the first day of March 2004. After spending about $100,000 per-month in January and February of 2004 for basic operating expenses, the $444,571 had dwindled to precisely zero. In fact, we cut it so close that one salary check – that of a board member – wasn’t issued for two days until money arrived from new ticket sales.

If that's a cash cow, then maybe my 15 years of being too disabled to work have left me a multimillionaire. Apart from my bad attitude (little hypoglecimic right now) I don't know if that included another big money crises with this years event--DMV staff were not permitted to live at the work ranch this year (04) so they had to rent space in Gerlach. And do a substantial part of set up during the gas price spike. They may not be clearing much from this year either. And I don't think that an independant audit would find huge amounts of waste. But that's a guess and not a hugely educated one.

[tisha2]

Maybe there should be a fenced in (with barbed wire coils) free area. No porta potty, no ice, no water, no entrance into the "pay area". Make it about 8 miles north of the man. Guns allowed, anything goes. They can burn nignog on Saturday night.

[Q_]

Man, I hear a lot of people like this talking about the folks that go to burning man. Damn, useless jobless, stupid hippies in the desert taking a bunch of drugs and are a drain on society. You know that that isn't true but you are saying the exact same thing about the sneakers. I don't have the right to pre-judge people based on the fact that the sneak into the man. Maybe if I had the super human powers to understand why everyone does what they do I could come up with an opinion that we should shoot them all and then burn them. That they are horrible people and have no place hanging out with us. Fuck that.... I will decide for myself how I want to treat someone and I will not bitch about someone sneaking in the man, simply because I do not know their story or the reason for their actions. Some of the sneakers probably are assholes, but I am sure that many more of the assholes that are at the man bought their ticket...

[tisha2]

okay - I never said that ALL sneakers are ALSO stealers. If you're wanting to attack generalizations, i'm not making any. nignog clearly stated that he/she BOTH sneaks in AND mooches. I was trying to steer the discussion from the sneaking in point to the mooching from folks who actually prepared point. I clearly stated that i'm on the fence about sneaking in. I also clearly stated that stealing food from my kids is fucked up. Geekster has a point that sneaking in makes it kinda hard to carry all the supplies you're gonna need out there...but no one is saying that they are ALL one and the same.
Now, do you have a justification for stealing coolers?

[Q_]

I have no justification for steeling coolers. Steeling coolers is just rude.

Peace....

[Rob the Wop]

Some of the sneakers probably are assholes, but I am sure that many more of the assholes that are at the man bought their ticket...

Dude.

Being PC is cool and all- peace and love is great- but reality is kind of nice to hang out in at times too. I'm thinking that maybe my one of my DEFINITIONS of asshole, would be someone that sneaks in. Ergo, ALL of the sneakers are assholes- and some of the tickets buyers too.

Oh and 95% of the people on the highways are idiots, 70% of the people in America would better be utilized as a food source, and I'm not particularly fond of myself either.

(BTW, serial killers are not 'just misunderstood'.)

[Badger]

okay - I never said that ALL sneakers are ALSO stealers.

I'd argue to the contrary. It's one of the few absolutist opinions I have. ALL people who sneak into the event rob the city on some level. You'll have to make a more compelling case than just tossing out the the opinion that they aren't detrimental to the idea of BM, taxing on the infrastructure, or parasitic to the event.

[regynalonglank]

I thought burningman was based on a gift economy
you can't steal a gift
and if you steal something it is not given
people who sneak in are stealing the ticket
there is no gift in that
it's lame
and people who steal things once they are in there
or just mooch and beg
are not gifting
and are lame

what are you bringing to the table nignog? greed?

we already got some
thanks, but you're not welcome

come back when you have something to share
besides your needs

[thedrunkenmonkey]

My problem with sneakers?

They AREN'T self-reliant.

You cannot bring enough food, water, and shelter for yourself for a week if you sneak in. So in other words, you're going because you're there to mooch, beg, and wander from camp to camp trying to get your basic neccessities while you're there.

I am NOT responsible for your dumb ass on the playa. I will help, and I'll try to get someone who needs help some, but I had more than one guy come waltzing through expecting (not asking) that my camp would feed him simply because it was an Esplanade camp.

Fascism or not, if you don't value going to Burning Man enough to save $185 or to find a way to come up with that amount of money, you don't value the experience enough.

So please, if you plan on trying to sneak in to Burning Man 2005, reconsider staying at home, hanging out on the street corner, and asking for spare change. It'll get you farther there than it will out in the desert.

[TheMuse]

Better yet, if you discover someone who has snuck in, brin em to Spike's Vampire Bar. We can always use more blood donations.

[theCryptofishist]

Ya know, I just assumed that nignog doesn't actually attend the event, although may have at one time. Now that I think of it, however, nignog's propencity to stir up shit means that the JoTS must be a horrible temptation. Quick, let's have a line-up and see it this is the notorius potty vandel of the 2004 event. Check under fingernails carefully.

[Fat SAM]

You guys must have noticed that Nignog never posted back...It's obviously a phoney post. It's probably that guy that likes to drive his car all over the playa and who's always bitching about playa snakes. That's what I get from the first line, anyway....

[Bob]

The event hasn't moved since 2000... I'm surprised you guys from Weeno haven't dug a tunnel through by now.

[Fat SAM]

How do you know we haven't?

[rodent]

shhhhh.... ixna on the unnelta...

---
rodent (putting the eek in geek)

[Bob]

We would have picked it up on the ground-penetrating radar.