Plug n plays running amuk

[jasonk]

The reaction to THAT will be the next year the PNPs will write a really draconian contract that includes liquidated damages for a Sherpa's failure to complete the contract or log the requisite hours. That would be 100% legal, enforceable, and could be made to really hurt the little guys.

The smart ones won't sign, so they'll only have not-smart employees? And when the not-smart little guy gets slammed at home with liquidated damages, that'll eventually start making it into the news media.

[goathead]

Since plug & play is here to stay, the BMORG must take some steps to mitigate the negative impacts of these camps:

Why do they have to be here to stay? Guns and fireworks were allowed on the playa at on time also.
Why do P&P need employees to cook for them? Sure a contractor to drive in and drive out RV's maybe, why more then that?

[kiboy]

I have a closet full of guns I bought for the Man that are just rusting away in a closet.

[lucky420]

I really like John, "Halcyon", but fuck him. This looks more like take the blue pill and you will feel better bullshit.
I would have respected an OPEN LETTER to the BOARD addressing the issue's.

I don't personally know pink jesus, but I don't care for him at all. From what I've read (his recent lick ass article in fest300) and from a former campmate of his (now in my camp) he's really quite the little hypocrite.

No pink kool-aid. Ever

[goathead]

I have a closet full of guns I bought for the Man that are just rusting away in a closet.

well that is kind of silly.

I don't personally know pink jesus, but I don't care for him at all. From what I've read (his recent lick ass article in fest300) and from a former campmate of his (now in my camp) he's really quite the little hypocrite.

I have meet him a few times over the years, don't know him personally. He has changed over the years, not going to say anymore though.

[kiboy]

I'm all sorts of silly but after a lifetime of guns I'm over it and I don't know where to sell them and I'm lazy. Mostly take down fold up survival guns in small caliber but kept pristine. No rust.

[VultureChow]

It is already extremely easy for the rich to attend Burning Man. There's no need to scrimp and save to afford a ticket. No ride shares to arrange. Want a ticket? Have an assistant online on ticket day. Don't get one? Pay whatever the scalpers are asking.

You can have assistants do all of your bookings for you. Commission some cool swag as gifts. Fly in. Whatever you want.

The wealthy aren't fucking made of glass. I suppose there's a princess or two out there who faint at the idea of putting a custom prepared meal in the microwave, but most of them are completely capable of taking care of themselves for the week.

WHY do we need to make it even easier for them by having certified Burning Man travel agent taking a cut and paid staff and paid hotties waiting for them?

[kiboy]

Maybe because the rich are entitled to have it anyway they want and they want everyone to see they get to have it that way. Isn't that why the majority of humans want to be rich?

[VultureChow]

The rich aren't some sort of mythical beast. They're humans. There are rich douchebags and poor douchebags.

Rich people are already at Burning Man. Living, and working and gifting among us. Maybe they're in that giant RV across the street, or maybe they're in a freaking tent. The notion that PnPs or Commercial Camp should be allowed because it makes it easier for them to be changed by Burning Man is laughable.

[littleflower]

My problem is the ease and enthusiasm some people have in excusing the exploitation of humans because they are simply afraid their god capitalism is being insulted. Don't worry, your god will survive.
Oh, I love that piece of desert even without all the fabulous people.

my problem is the ease with which some people make bizarre and completely untrue insinuations based on insufficient information.

I also love the Black Rock Desert at any time. It is breathtaking.

[kiboy]

The rich aren't some sort of mythical beast. They're humans. There are rich douchebags and poor douchebags.

Rich people are already at Burning Man. Living, and working and gifting among us. Maybe they're in that giant RV across the street, or maybe they're in a freaking tent. The notion that PnPs or Commercial Camp should be allowed because it makes it easier for them to be changed by Burning Man is laughable.

It certainly would remove any perceived barriers between "them and us". No one is going to freak out about a guy who is taking on the playa environment at some level. I've camped with a multi millionaire. He rented a very big RV and we all set up our tents and small rvs around it. He opened it up much of the time for us to walk in and out. I hardly knew him at that time but he just acted like a regular guy and got dirty, tired, and dusty along with the rest of us. It was all good.

Is that not enough for some? What it reminds me of is my experience in the Fiji Islands. There was tourists there who only wanted everything to be like it was in their home country. They missed it IMO. My god that place was an amazing semi primitive wonderland. I had to drag myself out after four months only because I was chasing some wench that ended up fucking me over big time. But that's another story.

[graidawg]

it seems to me that as commodification is now allowed we should look at the other principles. the only one we can't get rid of (yet) is leave no trace. with wifi now easily available on playa it would no problem to send someones CC details to someone off playa to charge for that delicious cup of homebrew (or run a tab) or prepay and get tokens for a meal from fancy food camp. gifting? why when i can charge for it. radical inclusion? sure for $13k. self- reliance? nah i'll pay for a cook. self-expresion - sure i'll pay for someone to work it out for me. communal effort - sure i'll hire an extra sherpa to do it for me. participation? well i'm here aren't I. immediacy I WANT IT NOW DANCE FOR ME MONKEY

LETS NOT KIDS OURSELVES PEOPLE. burning man is being killed by the person that created it, so he can retire to hedonism with his cronys.

[Ano]

I don't know, I'm not very experienced with regards to this dirt rave (only 4 years) but I really feel like the general community is much stronger than a couple of shitty camps on the outskirts of the city providing incredible luxury to their campers ignoring the principals. I've run across people camped deep in the city who are unwelcoming, rude, leave a mess, and absolutely refuse to "get it," and after walking ten feet in the other direction, I don't have to deal with them anymore and it's as if they don't exist.

Is the event really immediately over if turnkey camps operate so openly? Hasn't Green Tortoise been doing essentially the same thing for years and years? As far as I know, since 2011, it has been possible to pay many different camps somewhere between 300 - 600 dollars for prime esplanade/A/B street location, meals, shade, shelter, and for someone to put it up and take it down for you. Playaschool and Area 51 immediately come to mind... and the event is still as strong as ever. Whats the difference here? Is it because they are a camp for wealthy people to do wealthy things? The whole employee thing is a really huge grey area, and so the allegations of apparent human trafficking and abuse of priveleges suck, but lets be real here - the only report we have of this is from one very disgruntled LA-area ex-employee... and we haven't heard a single peep from any other ones, nor any corraboration, and people are attacking all aspects of this camp without the full story... I can write you a report all about how Larry Harvey invited me into his camp and touched me in places I didn't like before telling me all about how he is selling Burning Man to Tesla, if you want some real juicy shit.

[lucky420]

the thing to me is not the plug and play so much as the fact that it is a BOARD MEMBER that is at the head of this very ugly snake.

A BOARD MEMBER and he made money off this. Dont blow smoke up my ass and tell me well "he's new"

fuck you JT

[Ano]

Do we know this, for a fact? Or is his name just being dropped because of disgruntled ex-employee? As far as I have seen, that is the only spot where he has been mentioned. I am very open to being wrong here, please point to me where he is mentioned as having been complicit in the organization of this camp. I would agree that it is a conflict of interest if a board member helped this happen, as this is the same board that will espouse the benefits of volunteer labor and how Burning Man can change the world... if it's changing the world, we don't need to sell it for a ridiculous profit.

[kiboy]

LETS NOT KIDS OURSELVES PEOPLE. burning man is being killed by the person that created it, so he can retire to hedonism with his cronys.

Strong words man. How exactly is Larry killing Burning Man and who exactly are his cronies? I'm not forgetting that Larry made BM possible so your word that he's now completely selling it out is not good enough for me. Maybe he has a vision that doesn't match up in all ways with yours but that doesn't constitute a sell out.

My ears are open though. So....?

[goathead]

Larry has killed it several times, sit back, have some popcorn, nothing better then a burner shit storm.

[kiboy]

Popcorn, yum!

[Leo]

In some ways, the plug & play camps might be a symptom of an evolution taking place at Burning Man. I have seen similar evolutions take place in several Seattle and Portland neighborhoods:
1. The artists live and work in a "marginal" neighborhood.
2. Unique shops, coffee places, and bars pop up to serve the community.
3. The neighborhood gets "discovered", published in magazines and publicized on TV.
4. "Outsiders" visit the neighborhood because it is cool.
5. "Outsiders" (rich folks) decide to move to the neighborhood because it is "trendy".
6. Property values and rents go up and the artists move out.
7. Commercial rents go up and the interesting business are priced out of the neighborhood.
8. Chain stores and franchises move in since they can afford the high commercial rents.
9. What was once a quirky, interesting neighborhood becomes a "generic" neighborhood, lacking soul and vibrancy.
10. The artists move on to another "marginal" neighborhood and the process starts over.

Plug and Play is here to stay. Deal with it.

[Lonesomebri]

Do we know this, for a fact? Or is his name just being dropped because of disgruntled ex-employee?

Do you know for a fact the ex-employee is lying? If not, why not follow your own advise instead of preaching to others?

[Lonesomebri]

littleflower wrote:...

do you have any proof that *all* of these camps abuse their workers? or just that one anonymous post? if so, I'd like to see, and lets hear some possible solutions. if the BMorg is involved in selling these things that sucks, but again, what are you going to do about it?
and i STILL have no problem with rich people bringing workers with them, other than their taking tickets away from real burners. if i could afford it i would pay some people to help me out, but i would be a very nice employer. you assume the worst of people....
do you have any proof that *all* of these camps abuse their workers? or just that one anonymous post?...

sigh ....... I am upset about this. I posted this on facebook, too. as soon as I found it. it appears that the BMOrg has enough info to discipline mr. popsicle, and I hope it happens. this story is everywhere....
my problem is the ease with which some people use this very specific circumstance to demonize all Plug 'n Plays ..... and even capitalism in general.
Black Rock City is a capitalist success, whether you want to believe it or not. someone turned an inhospitable piece of fucking desert and made it an international vacation spot for 60,000 people

Lonesomebri wrote-My problem is the ease and enthusiasm some people have in excusing the exploitation of humans because they are simply afraid their god capitalism is being insulted. Don't worry, your god will survive.
Oh, I love that piece of desert even without all the fabulous people.

my problem is the ease with which some people make bizarre and completely untrue insinuations based on insufficient information.
I also love the Black Rock Desert at any time. It is breathtaking.

I quoted you. Call it bizarre. You did not like criticism of Plug and Plays, excused the bad because not all Plug and Plays were horrible, plus, complete information -the type that never arrives- is necessary to form any opinion, and you would be a nice boss.... Well, at least WE got you posting on your FB page. Welcome to the movement. And Burning Man is an artistic success, a human success.... but we each worship in our own way. The Plug and Plays are inhospitable, created by capitalism, the desert is....well.......it ain't no rave......it's a desert.

[graidawg]

In some ways, the plug & play camps might be a symptom of an evolution taking place at Burning Man. I have seen similar evolutions take place in several Seattle and Portland neighborhoods:
1. The artists live and work in a "marginal" neighborhood.
2. Unique shops, coffee places, and bars pop up to serve the community.
3. The neighborhood gets "discovered", published in magazines and publicized on TV.
4. "Outsiders" visit the neighborhood because it is cool.
5. "Outsiders" (rich folks) decide to move to the neighborhood because it is "trendy".
6. Property values and rents go up and the artists move out.
7. Commercial rents go up and the interesting business are priced out of the neighborhood.
8. Chain stores and franchises move in since they can afford the high commercial rents.
9. What was once a quirky, interesting neighborhood becomes a "generic" neighborhood, lacking soul and vibrancy.
10. The artists move on to another "marginal" neighborhood and the process starts over.

Plug and Play is here to stay. Deal with it.

thanks for putting so simply. thing is the rich folks are being invited in for 3% of there take. everybody says how they have seen BM change over the years. Change accelerates. but hey, i could be wrong so could simon or any of the other people disapointed that BM is condoning this behaviour - but money talks louder than a quiet little message forum with less members in its lifetime than new arrivals this year

[Ano]

You're right, we don't. However, I'm not going to shit all over someone's name and an entire camp because of what one ex-worker/sherpa/employee/whatever said, without evidence beyond what she has written in her blog. I'm going to wait, and see, because this is a developing story, and to call it done and solved a whole two-ish weeks after the event is over and mere days after the story broke is really premature. We haven't heard a peep from the camp in question, or any other ex-employees/workers/whatever, or even anyone who camped with the camp. The closest thing to a rebuttal I have seen is two paragraphs on the original blog post on Facebook, from an apparent Caravancicle organizer, who stated that he had the complete opposite experience as an organizer and that he would write a more complete rebuttal soon. We have no proof he is who he says he is, either, beyond his facebook posts.

We still have no real idea if this was a well-intentioned camp that had its idea completely fall apart on day two (as many camps with ambitious plans do), or an exploitive BMORG-sponsored way to sell the culture as a festival experience, or even some independent guy who had no idea what he was doing beyond "imma make money at burning man." We don't know. We have tons of heresay, interesting tidbits, a blog post, some facebook profiles/pictures, and a well-known conspiracy-oriented burning man blog writing observations. I'm not going to call it until I see the full story, or at least more than a single perspective.

I can write an entire essay about my camp from last year. They are a successful camp that moved from suburbs to A street to a portal rapidly. Visitors to their camp love it, their campmates loved it, everyone loved it. I can tell you all this nasty rumor-filled shit about the organizers, shit all over their art, and shit all over the fact that they didn't meet all of their goals, but that doesn't tell the full story.

[kiboy]

In some ways, the plug & play camps might be a symptom of an evolution taking place at Burning Man. I have seen similar evolutions take place in several Seattle and Portland neighborhoods:
1. The artists live and work in a "marginal" neighborhood.
2. Unique shops, coffee places, and bars pop up to serve the community.
3. The neighborhood gets "discovered", published in magazines and publicized on TV.
4. "Outsiders" visit the neighborhood because it is cool.
5. "Outsiders" (rich folks) decide to move to the neighborhood because it is "trendy".
6. Property values and rents go up and the artists move out.
7. Commercial rents go up and the interesting business are priced out of the neighborhood.
8. Chain stores and franchises move in since they can afford the high commercial rents.
9. What was once a quirky, interesting neighborhood becomes a "generic" neighborhood, lacking soul and vibrancy.
10. The artists move on to another "marginal" neighborhood and the process starts over.

Plug and Play is here to stay. Deal with it.

Well as long as it starts over I"m ok. I'm going to suggest the Alvord Desert in Eastern Oregon in the rain shadow of the amazing Steens Mts. Very much like the playa with less dust I'm guessing but same remoteness and vibe. The economy out there could use the boost. If anything more remote than BRC.

[kiboy]

thanks for putting so simply. thing is the rich folks are being invited in for 3% of there take. everybody says how they have seen BM change over the years. Change accelerates. but hey, i could be wrong so could simon or any of the other people disappointed that BM is condoning this behaviour - but money talks louder than a quiet little message forum with less members in its lifetime than new arrivals this year

From my search of this topic on the internet seems like there is more interest in this subject than just at eplaya.

But that does bring up a "burning" question I have. Do you all have any idea if all the shit storm discussion in the past has had any real effect on policy or what happens in BRC?

[Sandstorm]

You're right, we don't. However, I'm not going to shit all over someone's name and an entire camp because of what one ex-worker/sherpa/employee/whatever said, without evidence beyond what she has written in her blog.

I appreciate your even keeled approach to this situation. I will add that while I take anything that is written on burners.me with a huge grain of salt I have to give them credit for some of what they've been posting lately about this situation. From what I've seen there is a direct connection between BM board member Jim Tananbaum and the camp for which the "sherpa" in question was working. I've also seen more than a few people on FB verify that they personally know the "sherpa" in question and can vouch for both her and her account of what went on in that camp.

Well as long as it starts over I"m ok. I'm going to suggest the Alvord Desert in Eastern Oregon in the rain shadow of the amazing Steens Mts. Very much like the playa with less dust I'm guessing but same remoteness and vibe. The economy out there could use the boost. If anything more remote than BRC.

Well, you've got me intrigued about that area of the country. I saw some other folks mention it in FB in the BM group.

But that does bring up a "burning" question I have. Do you all have any idea if all the shit storm discussion in the past has had any real effect on policy or what happens in BRC?

Since the story of SHERPAGATE broke BMORG has done the same thing that they did after the TICKET LOTTERY FIASCO: Radio silence.

I don't hate BMORG at all; it's a large group of people who work damn hard to make TTITD happen for all of us. That said, there are clearly elements/people within BMORG who are clueless/intellectually paralyzed.

[Popeye]

Postby lucky420 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:02 am
the thing to me is not the plug and play so much as the fact that it is a BOARD MEMBER that is at the head of this very ugly snake.

A BOARD MEMBER and he made money off this. Dont blow smoke up my ass and tell me well "he's new"

^THIS^

This, to me is the important part of the whole discussion. Sure, it sounds like some employees got fucked over but it is only a few of the people at Burning Man. Having a Board Member who takes it upon himself to openly profit from the event has the potential to affect every burner.
His unethical behavior should not be ignored. He should be given a fair hearing and told to resign.

[Elderberry]

Do we know that to be fact?

[Popeye]

kiboy wrote:But that does bring up a "burning" question I have. Do you all have any idea if all the shit storm discussion in the past has had any real effect on policy or what happens in BRC?

Since the story of SHERPAGATE broke BMORG has done the same thing that they did after the TICKET LOTTERY FIASCO: Radio silence.

I think it does get listened to. If only because any manager needs feed back on what works and doesn't work. Does Larry study Eplaya every day? Fuck No. But I would bet that he sees a summary.
This level of complaint - eplaya, facebook, and Burners.Me and other net and print atricles- has got to draw attention.

It's hard for the Borg to join in the discussion for the same reason your boss doesn't discuss why you where hired, fired or transferred. It just gives ammunition for a law suit.

[kiboy]

Do we know that to be fact?

I don't, and I don't know how to find out?