Sadly not lucrative. Haven't made one dime from Burning Man yet, even towards covering any expense at all much less profit. (except that a few folks ordered prints at cost from printroom)
Doesn't mean a better business guy or better artist couldn't do better or that this forum shouldn't delete a thread like this. (remember I earlier requested the thread be deleted after Christmas and later just requested it be deleted)
Of course it's easy to have a blanket rule and enforce it to the letter, even though the event is full of money changing hands between us and BM, BM and artists, and Yada Yada.
The problem is, BurningMan becomes like a religion to some folks, and perhaps it is as justified as any religion. It changes people's lives and some folks have spiritual experiences. But like religions, some folks get fundamentalist about the rules without thinking about the reasons for the rules or how the participants benefit from the rules.
Personally, I'd like BurningMan to be an evolved thinking culture that doesn't get knee jerk about things with increasing levels of dogma enforced by folks who cling to ideas without understanding them.
I'm sure it's been hashed out before a million times, but hey, this is an internet forum and that's what folks do. What are your opinions about the benefits and virtures of non-commerce and non-commodification and how can those values improve both Burning Man and the outside world? How do your opinions square with admission tickets, sponsored art, and all the money that folks spend preparing for the event? If an RV dealer says "Welcome Burners, 10% off if you are going to Burning Man with our rented rig" do they deserve praise or blame?
And if this forum is so sacred that we need to strictly make sure no hint of commerce arises here. How else should we be posting in order to preserve the good qualities of the event's profile online? Is it like a toilet that says "Absolutely no vomit allowed!"?
peace
Karl
All Burning Man Images reduced to Printing Cost
How to Make Money Without Work-Art
If you think professional photography is so easy and profitable, I suggest you take it up.
All you do is push a button, right?
The equipment is complex and expensive.
Everyone thinks it's easy, so it should be cheap.
And no one, outside a magazine, ever, ever HAS to buy a photo.
I'm a decent amateur and I have worked in art, but I'd be terrified to try to make a living at this.
And it is very time consuming.
I took a hundred photos or so, and then I put the cameras away.
It just took up too much of the most expensive thing at burning man-time.
And I didn't even bother to pack my pro Nikon.
I can't afford to repair or replace it and that dust is murder.
This was my first year to use a digital camera too and I can tell you that the difference between the low end and the pro cameras, is even more dramatic than with film cameras. I took a 7mp Canon and it was very unsatisfactory.
I will have to get something much older to get a pro digital, as I don't have $6,000 to spend on one, but the differences are very obvious.
I have a lot of respect for anyone bringing a good camera out in that dust.
I have a friend who is highly regarded for his photography.
I remember when he was making the leap to a full pro setup.
He was trying to decide between buying a house or the camera he needed.
That must have been an interesting conversation with the wife.
They bought the camera and lenses and film backs, etc, etc, etc.
He has done well.
I wonder how many years he was successful before he had any profit.
The good equipment does make a difference.
I saw a lens in the NASA press area that is so expensive they give a car to you when you buy one. This is for a still camera, not video.
But, hey, anyone can do it.
Like metal arts, it only takes thirty years to really get good at it.
All you do is push a button, right?
The equipment is complex and expensive.
Everyone thinks it's easy, so it should be cheap.
And no one, outside a magazine, ever, ever HAS to buy a photo.
I'm a decent amateur and I have worked in art, but I'd be terrified to try to make a living at this.
And it is very time consuming.
I took a hundred photos or so, and then I put the cameras away.
It just took up too much of the most expensive thing at burning man-time.
And I didn't even bother to pack my pro Nikon.
I can't afford to repair or replace it and that dust is murder.
This was my first year to use a digital camera too and I can tell you that the difference between the low end and the pro cameras, is even more dramatic than with film cameras. I took a 7mp Canon and it was very unsatisfactory.
I will have to get something much older to get a pro digital, as I don't have $6,000 to spend on one, but the differences are very obvious.
I have a lot of respect for anyone bringing a good camera out in that dust.
I have a friend who is highly regarded for his photography.
I remember when he was making the leap to a full pro setup.
He was trying to decide between buying a house or the camera he needed.
That must have been an interesting conversation with the wife.
They bought the camera and lenses and film backs, etc, etc, etc.
He has done well.
I wonder how many years he was successful before he had any profit.
The good equipment does make a difference.
I saw a lens in the NASA press area that is so expensive they give a car to you when you buy one. This is for a still camera, not video.
But, hey, anyone can do it.
Like metal arts, it only takes thirty years to really get good at it.
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LuckyBastard
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:40 pm
- Contact:
Re: How to Make Money Without Work-Art
Are you talking to me?gyre wrote:If you think professional photography is so easy and profitable, I suggest you take it up.
Because I did. It's how I make my living.
You're right, it's not easy or profitable for most.
That's no excuse for making(trying to make) money off of the event regardless of how many thousands of dollars worth of equipment you haul out there. If you're dumb enough to bring it, then you're dumb enough to lose your investment in it without me or anyone else covering the cost for you. And don't think I don't practice what I preach. I am dumb enough to bring my gear out there...
Maybe the difference is that I shoot for myself, because I want to, therefore I don't feel the need to CHARGE PEOPLE FOR PHOTOS OF BURNING MAN!
Your HEART may belong to The Man, but your ASS belongs to The Glom
Yeah, I know what that camera is.
I don't try to sell any of my photos either, except for the occasional shot for a magazine.
I do have a good shot of the whole Washoe County Sheriffs dept with releases.
It just seems to me that Karl is trying to give his stuff to the burner community.
Whether it is okay to you if he sells any of it to the outside world is a whole different artistic and perhaps spiritual argument.
I've had a lot of photographers give me small photos and business cards on the playa.
I don't expect them to be able to hand out 8 by 10s, and I don't think any of them expected to sell me any photos, but they are letting me know they are out there in the real world with a business. That seems perfectly acceptable to me. I don't see any difference in that and what Karl is doing, except he has made available larger sizes and if someone took advantage, they might make a profit off of them.
It seems that Karl is being more generous than the normal photographer out there and I applaud his creativity in doing so.
Perhaps someone out there can afford to kick in on the printing costs and make them all completely free?
I offered to buy a print I liked in the default world, and the photographer sent me an 8x10 for free, but stamped it as not sellable and not for publication. I was pretty thrilled.
I am going to now ask for a release for posting it on my website, with credit, of course. I like it that much.
You never know where a gift will come from.
I want to thank you and every other photographer out there that risks bringing a real camera out to the playa.
I think that Canon qualifies.
I don't try to sell any of my photos either, except for the occasional shot for a magazine.
I do have a good shot of the whole Washoe County Sheriffs dept with releases.
It just seems to me that Karl is trying to give his stuff to the burner community.
Whether it is okay to you if he sells any of it to the outside world is a whole different artistic and perhaps spiritual argument.
I've had a lot of photographers give me small photos and business cards on the playa.
I don't expect them to be able to hand out 8 by 10s, and I don't think any of them expected to sell me any photos, but they are letting me know they are out there in the real world with a business. That seems perfectly acceptable to me. I don't see any difference in that and what Karl is doing, except he has made available larger sizes and if someone took advantage, they might make a profit off of them.
It seems that Karl is being more generous than the normal photographer out there and I applaud his creativity in doing so.
Perhaps someone out there can afford to kick in on the printing costs and make them all completely free?
I offered to buy a print I liked in the default world, and the photographer sent me an 8x10 for free, but stamped it as not sellable and not for publication. I was pretty thrilled.
I am going to now ask for a release for posting it on my website, with credit, of course. I like it that much.
You never know where a gift will come from.
I want to thank you and every other photographer out there that risks bringing a real camera out to the playa.
I think that Canon qualifies.
MikeVDS wrote:From dictionary.com:1. He's getting no commodities from his offer, so it isn't #1.com·merce /ˈkɒmərs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kom-ers] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. an interchange of goods or commodities, esp. on a large scale between different countries (foreign commerce) or between different parts of the same country (domestic commerce); trade; business.
2. social relations, esp. the exchange of views, attitudes, etc.
3. sexual intercourse.
4. intellectual or spiritual interchange; communion.
5. (initial capital letter) Also called Commerce Department. Informal. the Department of Commerce.
2. He is getting the exchange of views and attitudes but I think that one is allowed.
3. I don't think this is about sex.
4. Don't think so
5. Nope
So how is this commerce? Since you like to stick to that word. You know if you say something enough I'm still not going to believe you until you can show that you're correct.
NOTICE AT THE END OF #1
after the ; .. BUSINESS
LAST I CHECKED BUSINESS MEANT SELLING SHIT
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.
It's pointless to argue whether I engage in commerce in general. Of course I do.
Did I do so at Burning Man, where it's supposed to be commerce free? I don't think so. I didn't touch any money there even for ice. I did bring a stack of prints of my landscape stuff in 8x10 mattes to give out free to the folks in my theme camp with some 11x14s for folks who made special efforts to put the camp together.
I certainly didn't have to bank to wander the playa giving stuff like that out.
So the question that I'm not seeing addressed is where the commerce should stop or start. Folks spend piles of money going to Burning Man and some designers and suppliers even cater to that. Right or wrong? Artists that display art at Burning Man sell their wares after the event in many cases. Right or wrong? Why? Photographers do the same thing. If it's OK with the subjects and artists, what's your objection?
The point I'm getting at is, if we know what we are trying to achieve with decommodification, we're more likely to achieve it. Of course, folks might have very different ideas of what the goals might be.
And whether my posting constitutes commerce on this forum is another debate. A moderator said that I've come very close to the line and that's certainly true. I don't feel bad about it because I know my motives. I don't blame folks for questioning those motives but this thread will sink into oblivion sooner or later and I doubt somebody who didn't buy an 8x10 for 3$ will turn around and spend $27 on it later on.
I think it's worthwhile to debate the value and goals of the principle or it becomes a fundamentalist religion.
I found it pretty amazing that there were no trash cans at Burning Man and that folks policed themselves. I found it to be a disgusting travesty that the road away from Burning Man was littered heavily with obvious Burning Man trash as folk's carelessly packed their rigs so large amounts could fly off. That's not "getting it" in my mind.
I've been surprised to read folks state that if the BLM suddenly said that we couldn't burn things at Burning Man that it would be the end of the event. That blows my mind as, to me, the spirit of the event doesn't depend on fire and some other focal point would substitute in such an event.
It's clear that we have different interpretations of what's Ok annd what's not and I think it would be cool to think about why we hold the opinions that we do.
Peace
Kral
Did I do so at Burning Man, where it's supposed to be commerce free? I don't think so. I didn't touch any money there even for ice. I did bring a stack of prints of my landscape stuff in 8x10 mattes to give out free to the folks in my theme camp with some 11x14s for folks who made special efforts to put the camp together.
I certainly didn't have to bank to wander the playa giving stuff like that out.
So the question that I'm not seeing addressed is where the commerce should stop or start. Folks spend piles of money going to Burning Man and some designers and suppliers even cater to that. Right or wrong? Artists that display art at Burning Man sell their wares after the event in many cases. Right or wrong? Why? Photographers do the same thing. If it's OK with the subjects and artists, what's your objection?
The point I'm getting at is, if we know what we are trying to achieve with decommodification, we're more likely to achieve it. Of course, folks might have very different ideas of what the goals might be.
And whether my posting constitutes commerce on this forum is another debate. A moderator said that I've come very close to the line and that's certainly true. I don't feel bad about it because I know my motives. I don't blame folks for questioning those motives but this thread will sink into oblivion sooner or later and I doubt somebody who didn't buy an 8x10 for 3$ will turn around and spend $27 on it later on.
I think it's worthwhile to debate the value and goals of the principle or it becomes a fundamentalist religion.
I found it pretty amazing that there were no trash cans at Burning Man and that folks policed themselves. I found it to be a disgusting travesty that the road away from Burning Man was littered heavily with obvious Burning Man trash as folk's carelessly packed their rigs so large amounts could fly off. That's not "getting it" in my mind.
I've been surprised to read folks state that if the BLM suddenly said that we couldn't burn things at Burning Man that it would be the end of the event. That blows my mind as, to me, the spirit of the event doesn't depend on fire and some other focal point would substitute in such an event.
It's clear that we have different interpretations of what's Ok annd what's not and I think it would be cool to think about why we hold the opinions that we do.
Peace
Kral
www.yosemiteclimber.com
Re: How to Make Money Without Work-Art
Killer, since mine are only going to be available at cost for a short time. You should tells us how folks can get your photos for free.LuckyBastard wrote:Are you talking to me?gyre wrote:If you think professional photography is so easy and profitable, I suggest you take it up.
Because I did. It's how I make my living.
You're right, it's not easy or profitable for most.
That's no excuse for making(trying to make) money off of the event regardless of how many thousands of dollars worth of equipment you haul out there. If you're dumb enough to bring it, then you're dumb enough to lose your investment in it without me or anyone else covering the cost for you. And don't think I don't practice what I preach. I am dumb enough to bring my gear out there...
Maybe the difference is that I shoot for myself, because I want to, therefore I don't feel the need to CHARGE PEOPLE FOR PHOTOS OF BURNING MAN!
I mostly kept my camera put away at Burning Man and many folks didn't have the knowledge on how to take night pictures, and burning pictures. If you can supply them with shots, they'll be stoked and I sure don't mind if that dries up any of my opportunities. I'll even link you on my site so folks don't have to buy from me.
Peace
Karl
www.yosemiteclimber.com
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LuckyBastard
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:40 pm
- Contact:
Re: How to Make Money Without Work-Art
Same way as they always have, email me and ask. I'll do exactly as you do and either email them a high res file or upload it to the company I use for printing and let them purchase it at cost. And there's no rush, I won't be "jacking my prices back up sometime between Christmas and New Years" because the price has been the same for the last 10 years, FREE. That's where I have a problem with you. The fact that your burning man photos are EVER anything but free.karlbaba wrote:Killer, since mine are only going to be available at cost for a short time. You should tells us how folks can get your photos for free.
Your HEART may belong to The Man, but your ASS belongs to The Glom
Re: How to Make Money Without Work-Art
I guess we have different perspectives regarding moral outrage. Do you charge people for your images of Violent Murders of Semi-Naked Women? I found them to be technically superb but can't say I'm thrilled. I thought your Burning Man images were far weaker but you did say that you shoot them for yourself. Mabye you weren't motivated.LuckyBastard wrote:Same way as they always have, email me and ask. I'll do exactly as you do and either email them a high res file or upload it to the company I use for printing and let them purchase it at cost. And there's no rush, I won't be "jacking my prices back up sometime between Christmas and New Years" because the price has been the same for the last 10 years, FREE. That's where I have a problem with you. The fact that your burning man photos are EVER anything but free.karlbaba wrote:Killer, since mine are only going to be available at cost for a short time. You should tells us how folks can get your photos for free.
Maybe you should lobby the organization to ban all commercial use of BM photography. That's your stance right? Why not get them to agree? It might keep the crowds down if folks don't see the event as much.
Personally, I think Burning Man need to become a prototype for an inclusive society with self organizing cooperative systems. There should be Burning Mans in different forms and times across the world, so when it goes to pot, we know how to get by. Therefore, I think it's good that folks know about it, and that's why I wrote a big trip report about it and posted it free on the net instead of trying to charge a magazine for it.
Peace
Karl
www.yosemiteclimber.com
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LuckyBastard
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:40 pm
- Contact:
Re: How to Make Money Without Work-Art
Yes... those would cost you. And you're right, I wasn't motivated by anything other than shooting photos for myself at BM, but thanks for the critique anyway.karlbaba wrote:Do you charge people for your images of Violent Murders of Semi-Naked Women? I found them to be technically superb but can't say I'm thrilled. I thought your Burning Man images were far weaker but you did say that you shoot them for yourself. Mabye you weren't motivated.
And you're wrong about my "stance" on photography at BM. Sell whatever the fuck you want. Just be honest and consistent if you want to try to make money off of images of other attendees and their art. That's what you're doing when you jack the prices back up right? You've talked plenty of circles around the main point here so would you like to finally answer that? Do you think it's right for you to make money off of the event and it's attendees?
Your HEART may belong to The Man, but your ASS belongs to The Glom
eeeesh
i haven't posted here in nearly a year but here goes:
i gotta vouch for lucky bastard, bob, badger and the rest...
i understand the biz of photography inside and out and you, my friend, are no businessman. and you are no burner i know.
lets do away with this thread once and for all.
i gotta vouch for lucky bastard, bob, badger and the rest...
i understand the biz of photography inside and out and you, my friend, are no businessman. and you are no burner i know.
lets do away with this thread once and for all.
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Rian Jackson
- Posts: 3903
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:30 pm
- Location: In Rob's Head
By the way Lucky, thanks again for all those photos you've given me. They're some of my favourites.
Karl, maybe if you'd been a little less into promotion you could have made a seperate place to put just those BM photos. Then you could have allowed people to print their own images and taken the damn thing down after the holidays. Then everyone would know it was a gift.
Looks like a fish, smells like a fish...
Karl, maybe if you'd been a little less into promotion you could have made a seperate place to put just those BM photos. Then you could have allowed people to print their own images and taken the damn thing down after the holidays. Then everyone would know it was a gift.
Looks like a fish, smells like a fish...
surlier than thou
Lucky
I thought I answered your question. Of course I think it's OK or I woudn't do it. I asked a few questions as well about commerce. Careers in BMORG, Artists selling their stuff, money off the playa. Care to answer them? I feel most guilty about spending too much precious time typing on this thread.
Cowgirl, I might not be a businessman and I don't even like labels like Burner, but I doubt you know my heart.
I really did decide in my little mind that "Gee, even though people buy things at real prices for the holidays, let's give up the profit on the Burning Man Images and make somebody happy"
So naturally it has been painful to receive a generally negative response her. Maybe you think I'm trying to drum up future business, but I know that's not going to happen because I'm in the middle of it.
as for how this ends. Hey I asked for the threads deletion myself but on the other hand, I'm still here so maybe I'm morbid too. I'm resolving to do better things with my time, as negative people are going to take out their road rage consistently on a forum that nurtures that culture.
Like I said before, this place is like a toilet that cries out "Absolutely no vomit!" If you care about Burning Man, make it a place where others don't fear to post.
And, regardless of me and this commerce issue. That's what you've created her on this forum. A personal club where negativity is shared and distributed. At least that's what I hear from some lurkers and folk who have given up posting.
So fine, delete the thread, but consider in yourself if the approach to thing on this forum, (and many Burning Man communication venues) isn't needlessly harsh and negative. Freedom to express yourself freely is a gift but if your expressions seems to take joy in negativity, you need other therapy.
Peace
Karl
I thought I answered your question. Of course I think it's OK or I woudn't do it. I asked a few questions as well about commerce. Careers in BMORG, Artists selling their stuff, money off the playa. Care to answer them? I feel most guilty about spending too much precious time typing on this thread.
Cowgirl, I might not be a businessman and I don't even like labels like Burner, but I doubt you know my heart.
I really did decide in my little mind that "Gee, even though people buy things at real prices for the holidays, let's give up the profit on the Burning Man Images and make somebody happy"
So naturally it has been painful to receive a generally negative response her. Maybe you think I'm trying to drum up future business, but I know that's not going to happen because I'm in the middle of it.
as for how this ends. Hey I asked for the threads deletion myself but on the other hand, I'm still here so maybe I'm morbid too. I'm resolving to do better things with my time, as negative people are going to take out their road rage consistently on a forum that nurtures that culture.
Like I said before, this place is like a toilet that cries out "Absolutely no vomit!" If you care about Burning Man, make it a place where others don't fear to post.
And, regardless of me and this commerce issue. That's what you've created her on this forum. A personal club where negativity is shared and distributed. At least that's what I hear from some lurkers and folk who have given up posting.
So fine, delete the thread, but consider in yourself if the approach to thing on this forum, (and many Burning Man communication venues) isn't needlessly harsh and negative. Freedom to express yourself freely is a gift but if your expressions seems to take joy in negativity, you need other therapy.
Peace
Karl
www.yosemiteclimber.com
-
Bob
- Posts: 6747
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
- Burning Since: 1986
- Camp Name: Royaneh
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
Despite rumors otherwise, eschewing the trappings of commerce wasn't a moral, ethical, or spiritual decision -- it was an esthetic one. They just didn't want to see people selling shit. If that appears shallow, keep in mind it's an art festival. And given that you're selling shit, don't be surprised at getting a critical review or two.
But I talked to Larry last night and he said it's okay for you to sell shit on the eplaya.
Just you, no one else. I think he was drunk, but that's what he mumbled before he sunk into the rich Corinthian leather of his Eames lounge chair and gurgled himself to sleep. "Let that hippie sell his shit on the eplaya... Baba, Karl, whatever the fuck his name is... see if I care." I pulled the Marlboro out of his gnarled fingers, snuffed it in the over-full ashtray, threw an afghan over his bony legs, and left before the afghan woke up too.
But I talked to Larry last night and he said it's okay for you to sell shit on the eplaya.
Just you, no one else. I think he was drunk, but that's what he mumbled before he sunk into the rich Corinthian leather of his Eames lounge chair and gurgled himself to sleep. "Let that hippie sell his shit on the eplaya... Baba, Karl, whatever the fuck his name is... see if I care." I pulled the Marlboro out of his gnarled fingers, snuffed it in the over-full ashtray, threw an afghan over his bony legs, and left before the afghan woke up too.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
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Rian Jackson
- Posts: 3903
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:30 pm
- Location: In Rob's Head
Bob, I think I love you.
Is it an eplaya specialty?
Dude promotes his business on the BBS.
People point out that he's in violation of the TOS, 10 Commandments, whateverthefuckhaveyou.
Dude's eyes get wide. As he pulls out his halo he says, 'but not me!!.'
Criticism continues.
Dude puts on best suit and gets on soapbox and lectures everyone on what naughty, ill-mannered children they are.
I swear I've seen this a million times here. regardless of the OP's intentions, it's no surprise that he isn't given special dispensation just because he says he's a good hearted angel.
But then again, I think I'm part of the grumpypants club.
Is it an eplaya specialty?
Dude promotes his business on the BBS.
People point out that he's in violation of the TOS, 10 Commandments, whateverthefuckhaveyou.
Dude's eyes get wide. As he pulls out his halo he says, 'but not me!!.'
Criticism continues.
Dude puts on best suit and gets on soapbox and lectures everyone on what naughty, ill-mannered children they are.
I swear I've seen this a million times here. regardless of the OP's intentions, it's no surprise that he isn't given special dispensation just because he says he's a good hearted angel.
But then again, I think I'm part of the grumpypants club.
surlier than thou
I think it's a fine decision if they don't want to see folks sell stuff at Burning Man. Burning Man is over and this isn't the playa.Bob wrote:Despite rumors otherwise, eschewing the trappings of commerce wasn't a moral, ethical, or spiritual decision -- it was an esthetic one. They just didn't want to see people selling shit. If that appears shallow, keep in mind it's an art festival. And given that you're selling shit, don't be surprised at getting a critical review or two.
But I talked to Larry last night and he said it's okay for you to sell shit on the eplaya.
Just you, no one else. I think he was drunk, but that's what he mumbled before he sunk into the rich Corinthian leather of his Eames lounge chair and gurgled himself to sleep. "Let that hippie sell his shit on the eplaya... Baba, Karl, whatever the fuck his name is... see if I care." I pulled the Marlboro out of his gnarled fingers, snuffed it in the over-full ashtray, threw an afghan over his bony legs, and left before the afghan woke up too.
But if Larry says I can sell stuff, Cool, Maybe I'll sell Beer and Lobsters instead. Better sales. He just has to loudly announce my special rightt so I don't get murdered. You'll have to remind him when he wakes up.
Peace
Karl
www.yosemiteclimber.com
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LuckyBastard
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:40 pm
- Contact:
Rian Jackson wrote:But then again, I think I'm part of the grumpypants club.
Don't you mean the cutiepants club?
karlbaba wrote:"Gee, even though people buy things at real prices for the holidays, let's give up the profit on the Burning Man Images and make somebody happy"
You're such a good burner. Now what about the other 51 weeks a year you're trying to make a buck off the event?
Your HEART may belong to The Man, but your ASS belongs to The Glom
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Rian Jackson
- Posts: 3903
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:30 pm
- Location: In Rob's Head
Sound like a wise action. If folks are interested in discussing these issues, they should jump in. I've said most of what I need to say and I'm hoping to use my time for other things since I'm travelling very soon.AntiM wrote:The thread is still here as the discussion has gotten interesting. However, since it is not okay to sell anything on eplaya, the active link is gone.
Yep, this is an extension of the playa. Says so right in the TOS.
Peace
Karl
www.yosemiteclimber.com
[quote="AntiM"]Thanks, stuff like this makes my head hurt. Safe journeys ... I suppose I'll get me bum kicked if I say I wanna see pictures!?[/quote]
India is far from commerce-free, although there are a different set of ethical considerations to wrassle with. I learned enough language to make eliminate misunderstandings.
As for the forum climate. I'm confident that the folks who I consider abrasive and rude are great folks in real life.
I've seen the pattern before and get sucked in myself before I snap myself out of it.
A guy posts on a forum and pretty soon he's a regular and the other regulars support him. Once you're protected it's easy to drift into a pattern of negative expression because the communication drifts towards negative as the darkness they can't take out in their day jobs or with their family get's vented online. Pretty soon the women leave except of ones who take pride in hanging with the dudes, and folks who don't want to join the fray leave to. That leaves the dogs defending the yard whether it's the mailman or a burgler. (maybe I'm the burgler?)
It hurts to get slagged but I don't take it personally because my relationships are positive in the default world and nobody thinks of dissing me who knows me. Even the ex-girlfriend is coming for a visit tonight.
So ya'll might thing harsh treatment is defending the faith but I bet there's better way that aren't so negative to the image of Burning Man and the communication medium of the net.
My 2¢
Peace
karl
India is far from commerce-free, although there are a different set of ethical considerations to wrassle with. I learned enough language to make eliminate misunderstandings.
As for the forum climate. I'm confident that the folks who I consider abrasive and rude are great folks in real life.
I've seen the pattern before and get sucked in myself before I snap myself out of it.
A guy posts on a forum and pretty soon he's a regular and the other regulars support him. Once you're protected it's easy to drift into a pattern of negative expression because the communication drifts towards negative as the darkness they can't take out in their day jobs or with their family get's vented online. Pretty soon the women leave except of ones who take pride in hanging with the dudes, and folks who don't want to join the fray leave to. That leaves the dogs defending the yard whether it's the mailman or a burgler. (maybe I'm the burgler?)
It hurts to get slagged but I don't take it personally because my relationships are positive in the default world and nobody thinks of dissing me who knows me. Even the ex-girlfriend is coming for a visit tonight.
So ya'll might thing harsh treatment is defending the faith but I bet there's better way that aren't so negative to the image of Burning Man and the communication medium of the net.
My 2¢
Peace
karl
www.yosemiteclimber.com
-
AntiM
- Moderator
- Posts: 20301
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
- Location: Wild, Wild West
Right you are, you'll have to consider attending the eplaya meet n greet!As for the forum climate. I'm confident that the folks who I consider abrasive and rude are great folks in real life.
I wanted to go to India when we lived in Iran, but dad wouldn't let me go by myself with the wives group, he thought 16 was too young for solo travel.
Well, I think this guy is working for this "printing company" (does he own that, too?!) and therefore THEY ARE making money.
Prints = Money / Sale! Next Week it ends!
BBS post lasts longer than sale = advertisement ?!
Fishy, too... isn't it? Duh.
and he looks guilt free! (reminds me of the Belgian Waffle) and I also think, that
his EGO is getting paid, because he even MENTIONS he got 5400 hits on his site. Ick.
You KNOW he's watching it and he's all ego-happy about it. (does this attitude also remind you of the Belgian Waffle). Ack.
so, Just us talking about it is probably getting him off.
(also remind you of the Begian waffle?) I can't even mention names here, because they aren't worth it, and HELL if I am going to start
clicking on websites and stroking egos.
Of course, I'd rather buy from burners, than non-burners...ex: el wire
But on the playa, can't we just be humans and leave our egos behind? Oh, PLEASE?!
Why do we have to all "have trust funds" ??? Can't we just work our asses off and save our money- and then go there and be free of "who we are"?
Please, no names on your art work on the playa. Let it just pass as word of mouth...
and please no advertising your business, unless soemone asks for someone to fill their need.
That's kinda how I feel.\
Free or nothin
~If someone wants to support you, they'll ASK you if they can contact you off-playa...
They'll go through friendship, admiration and play time...
Not because you bought a ticket and some company paid you to "rock the world" at burning man, or because you steal ideas/ideals for personal profit. Ick!
Prints = Money / Sale! Next Week it ends!
BBS post lasts longer than sale = advertisement ?!
Fishy, too... isn't it? Duh.
and he looks guilt free! (reminds me of the Belgian Waffle) and I also think, that
his EGO is getting paid, because he even MENTIONS he got 5400 hits on his site. Ick.
You KNOW he's watching it and he's all ego-happy about it. (does this attitude also remind you of the Belgian Waffle). Ack.
so, Just us talking about it is probably getting him off.
(also remind you of the Begian waffle?) I can't even mention names here, because they aren't worth it, and HELL if I am going to start
clicking on websites and stroking egos.
Of course, I'd rather buy from burners, than non-burners...ex: el wire
But on the playa, can't we just be humans and leave our egos behind? Oh, PLEASE?!
Why do we have to all "have trust funds" ??? Can't we just work our asses off and save our money- and then go there and be free of "who we are"?
Please, no names on your art work on the playa. Let it just pass as word of mouth...
and please no advertising your business, unless soemone asks for someone to fill their need.
That's kinda how I feel.\
Free or nothin
~If someone wants to support you, they'll ASK you if they can contact you off-playa...
They'll go through friendship, admiration and play time...
Not because you bought a ticket and some company paid you to "rock the world" at burning man, or because you steal ideas/ideals for personal profit. Ick!
You make a poor insultress Karine.
How's it supposed to stoke my ego if 5400 folks visit my BM images since Burning Man and they don't buy anything?
and you can do the math about the printer yourself whether there's a profit or not.
Meanwhile, if ego is also a sin, what's your webpage about?
Peace
Karl
How's it supposed to stoke my ego if 5400 folks visit my BM images since Burning Man and they don't buy anything?
and you can do the math about the printer yourself whether there's a profit or not.
Meanwhile, if ego is also a sin, what's your webpage about?
Peace
Karl
www.yosemiteclimber.com
I also think you might have had good intentions, trying to gift things people might want- you just didn't respect a gifting / no commerce community or their rules and guidelines.
Now, you really should register your camera next year, and read the agreement letter you sign (the actual terms of your agreement with the LLC).
Now, you really should register your camera next year, and read the agreement letter you sign (the actual terms of your agreement with the LLC).
