RV's on the increase calls for some creative thinking...

RodanCX · Post by **RodanCX** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:19 am

Hmmm, the whole RVers vs Tenters is an interesting thing.

It really sucked about the the whole giant, same, plain RV village around 8ish, it was late at night and it was me and my bf. It was really creepy for sure lol.

However we bought an rv, i think its somewhere in between 65-75 ford econoline box that we had to fix from scratch, i can say it really helped a lot, even tho we only had a working stove and a propane heather.

Most of the time we only used it to sleep, change clothes, cooking and shelter, cough sex cough.
Specially this last year, we managed to get like 8 or 9 people when the sandstorms where raging, while we were all having a cold beer and some smoke, good times, good times

.

Even tho, we never had a problem with people, we actually got a really good reception from everybody, i think completely spray painting random art on it helped hehe.

Also the other reason of why we decided to get one was because my bf has been going to burning man for the last 5 years, i was a virgin this last 08, and he said that the rv is so much better and comfy, even tho it kinda defeats the survivalist aspect of it.

Anyways, that was just my experiences. However i do think that the RVillage was really ugly compared to rest of all the other beautiful burning man camps.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:08 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:next year, shanty town....

i'm saving up my corrugated metal and street signs.

That is really a picture of Venice beach in Santa Monica, Ca. That is my rust red VW bug (punch, I said bug).

Now let me explain how you turn a VW bug into a RV. Take out the back seat, pack in a bunch of clothing into all the holes and depressions making the back smooth. To cook, open the can, place it in the engine compartment next to #3 and drive 20 or 30 miles. To sleep, move both front seats as far foward as they will go, lean them onto the windshield and from there to the back of the car should be a little over 6'. Plenty of room for 1 1/2 to 2 people.

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:29 am

You actually know 1/2 a person?

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:44 am

maybe he's taking King Salomon?..........

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:48 am

wedeliver wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:next year, shanty town....

i'm saving up my corrugated metal and street signs.

That is really a picture of Venice beach in Santa Monica, Ca. That is my rust red VW bug (punch, I said bug).

Now let me explain how you turn a VW bug into a RV. Take out the back seat, pack in a bunch of clothing into all the holes and depressions making the back smooth. To cook, open the can, place it in the engine compartment next to #3 and drive 20 or 30 miles. To sleep, move both front seats as far foward as they will go, lean them onto the windshield and from there to the back of the car should be a little over 6'. Plenty of room for 1 1/2 to 2 people.

that's a real picture from venice?

what year? i was thinking it was a frank gehry ... but maybe it was his inspiration! interesting ...

ihlvr · Post by **ihlvr** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:49 am

maybe little kid's count as 1/2?

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:58 am

>>>>that's a real picture from venice?<<<<

nope... and venice beach is not in santa monica,,, its in venice...

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:14 pm

misfit wrote:>>>>that's a real picture from venice?<<<<

nope... and venice beach is not in santa monica,,, its in venice...

Just past the edge of the picture on the right is your first PIZZA then a scarf shop, but they are out of view. Remember this is venice back in the day, back when it was part of Santa Monica, and you could walk from the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium to POP (pacific ocean park) in 15 minutes.

[youtube][/youtube]

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:16 pm

jkisha wrote:You actually know 1/2 a person?

Ahem.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:17 pm

misfit wrote:>>>>that's a real picture from venice?<<<<

nope... and venice beach is not in santa monica,,, its in venice... :?

And they call it the Lido.

Sorry, wrong Venice.

Anti-Hero · Post by **Anti-Hero** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:29 am

[quote="couglite"]Yeah, I tried to convince them that it must have been the dust from the highway - after all I drove with the windows open the whole way.

Didn't work. Plus I accidentally stole a bunch of their dishtowels and coffee spoons and the plates fell out of the cupboard on the exodus...

Oh well, I have evolved to a true burner, just in time for next year.[/quote]

My first year BM 07 I rented an RV..... yea I am just blacklisted from renting RV's period. I broke the awning..... suposedly there was body damage, but I marked that on a damage paper before I took possession.

Oh the best was the fact that I dropped it off and did not have the key to it. Never could find it until one day about a year later, I found it in my underwear drawer...... best BM souvenir.

But I hear you on the blacklisted-ness

oheric! · Post by **oheric!** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:49 pm

So we all agree to bring RV's and shun the tenters.

"Im gunna shun the hell out of those tenters!" - grandma

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:35 pm

Hell, if you got access to an RV, use it. That ain't dumb.

bloodtrainfromtokyo · Post by **bloodtrainfromtokyo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:32 am

[quote="Simon of the Playa"]next year, shanty town....

i'm saving up my corrugated metal and street signs.

[img]http://www.xippas.com/i/artistes/galler ... g07_1a.jpg[/img][/quote]

can somebody PLEASE tell me who actually designed this, or at least where tell me where it actully is

Igneouss · Post by **Igneouss** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:04 am

Ok,
I can't resist this thread. There are multiple ways to take either side. Great pardoxes abound. Two themes prevail at Burning Man: Radical self reliance and temporary community. Radical self reliance would suggest that RVs suck. Temporary community couldn't work better with RVs. Then you look at the Burning Man elite - didn't I read that Larry stays in an RV? I rather imagine that many of the elite stay in RVs...

But are we allowed to define radical self reliance on money? As in I can drop $$$ on an RV so I am radically relying on it? Wealth makes radical self reliance much easier, doesn't it?

Then there is the environmental/infrastructure side of the equation. Isn't it better if more folks bring their own potties? Don't RVs help contain MOOP?

Some make a 'green' argument against RVs but that fails big time. Anyone that thinks Burning Man is a 'green' event is living in a total fantasy world. It is far more well defined as a sybaritic celebration of consumption.

So what's the basis for the argument? Two subjects come to mind: class and community. Class in the sense that BRC has it's 'haves' and it's 'have nots'. Folks who can spend $$$ on RVs and those that struggle to afford a tent that might survive a week on the playa. Community in the sense that retreat to a sealed and airconditioned RV does not exactly foster interaction with the neighbors.

Burning Man is clearly changing. Accounts of early years sound like it was somewhat rougher in terms of survival. At least in terms of more tents and fewer RVs. As more people come, Burning Man effectively gets softer. People who would never have considered attending in past years show up in mobile houses that allow them to venture out to experience Burning Man in managable chunks, and retreat to comfort and privacy. Theme camps run generators that probably cost as much as my house.

Maybe the judgement should be based on participation? Should less physically capable people be discouraged from attending simply because they need an RV to survive?

Predictions: BMorg will never limit RVs. BMorg is a commercial enterprise. Allowing RVs increases attendance significantly. RVs = money. Get used to RVs. Expect to see more as Burning Man grows, Burners age, and Burners have more disposable income.

I tend to fall on the side of the argument against RVs. I do not believe that BM was ever intended to be accessible to everyone. If Larry had wanted it to be handicapped friendly, or senior friendly, or child friendly...it would not be situated on Mars. I suspect that the original intent was to escape the 'Leave it to Beaver' suburban world but side affects of limiting access are unavoidable. That said, Larry as seemed willing to sit back and allow it to evolve, avoiding social engineering this issue.

From a management standpoint I'd suggest that BMorg could (and has) taken some actions. I read that theme camp placements from year to year take many factors into account. The word should go out that RV-rich theme camps that do not make a succesful effort to mitigate known problems with RVs will get less desirable placements. Just like they do if they fail to clean up their MOOP.

Also, rather than penalize RVs BMorg should consider rewarding the more self reliant folks. This could be done by reserving choice inner blocks for tenters. That would effectively move many RVs farther out in the rings. Let the folks with rolling hotels walk/ride the extra blocks. Put them together so they can listen to each others' generators. Let them form their own communities.

Increase the awarness of the RV-ers. Make them more sensitive to the problems that they bring and create. Encourage them to work with neighboors (as many do). Encourage them to share their resources (as many do). Ramp up the pressure that encourages participation.

This remains an interesting issue. It has many pros and cons and many folks have strong opinons on both sides. The debate has vitality. Flame on.

Igneouss

Post by **mdmf007** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:29 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
jkisha wrote:You actually know 1/2 a person?
Ahem.

come on - at least 3/4's!! the best 3/4 too!!!

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:51 am

What about John Wayne Bobbit, isn't he "half the man he used to be"?

Igneouss · Post by **Igneouss** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:09 am

wedeliver wrote:What about John Wayne Bobbit, isn't he "half the man he used to be"?

Naw. John had it re-installed after the police located it in a nearby abandoned lot.

Hedy · Post by **Hedy** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:18 am

"As I was walking near the Giant generator late Saturday night I noticed a award sign with a blue ribbon someone posted on the lower left corner of the thing. It said: "Awarded Best Use of Corner Frontage, by the BRC Beautiful Homes and Garden Association."

This is why I love Burning Man : )

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:52 am

Igneouss wrote:
wedeliver wrote:What about John Wayne Bobbit, isn't he "half the man he used to be"?
Naw. John had it re-installed after the police located it in a nearby abandoned lot.

"re-installed" what kind of medical term is that?

abandoned lot? Abandoned dick? what is it with abandoned?

(I can picture the cops looking for this lost dick..."what are we lookin' for Sarge?" "We are looking for a penis, probably bloody, about the size of my thumb" "Hey, anyone see a penis?" "watch out don't STEP on the dick" and then .. "Hey, I found something, but I ain't touchin' it")

Igneouss · Post by **Igneouss** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:17 pm

For those of us with appropriately twisted minds it was hilarious.

Seems he was really drunk. She hacked it off with a Ginsu of all things...

Then she hopped in her car and drove away with it LOL

After the police got involved and caught up with her, she confessed and lead the cops to the approximate place where she tossed it out the car window.

Thus insued a search of the area by the cops who did, in fact, apprehend the lost member and return it to the hospital.

If memory serves he later appeared in a porno film as a way to prove to the world that it still functioned.

Just one of those great American stories.

skibear · Post by **skibear** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:11 pm

Gaak,

This cutoff occured in Manassas VA, about 30 mi
from my location in Md.

Years later Bobbit was arrested in Las Vegus for beating
some woman in a trailer park.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:57 pm

skibear wrote:....
Years later Bobbit was arrested in Las Vegus for beating
some woman in a trailer park.

Was his dick the weapon?

Igneouss · Post by **Igneouss** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:28 pm

skibear wrote:Gaak,
This cutoff occured in Manassas VA, about 30 mi
from my location in Md.

Years later Bobbit was arrested in Las Vegus for beating
some woman in a trailer park.

Hey Ski,
I'm in NoVA where folks from Manassas are sometimes called 'manassholes'. Not that I would ever be so rude...

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:54 pm

skibear wrote: This cutoff occured in Manassas VA,

In some circles it's known as The Third Battle of Bull Run.

Igneouss · Post by **Igneouss** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:43 am

Back to topic... LOL

So RVs do seem antithetical to the BM credo. Radical self reliance? I guess it does not say that one can't solve self reliance issues with money. RVs sure would make it easier to deal with the hardships of the playa.

So how does the presence of RVs affect the community? Are folks in RVs less likely to get to know the neighbors? Does being able to dash in and out of the RV, taking in BM in small doses, make for a less 'true' BM experience? Are folks in tents with limited sanitary facilities more 'connected' to the experience?

The literary and factual tradition of the 'vision quest' clearly has elements of acetism, making RVs at BM suspect.

But then I come back to the fact that Rvs = $$$ and BMorg likes money. So RVs will never be stopped. So how do you integrate RVs and still preserve what ever amount of the core BM experience can be saved in an RV infested Brigadoon?

Maybe the BM tradition simply pretends to be acetic while in fact it has always had a majority of folks who bring a ton of the default world along? Huge sound systems, Refrigerators, Showers, Big complicated structures, generators, blenders, A/C... From the air it does not look very acetic. Not very dangerous.

Ooooo, look out the window of the RV! That tent just blew down! That was close!

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:54 am

wedeliver wrote:"re-installed" what kind of medical term is that?

LOL Well it sure sounds better then:

"They stapled that pecker back on

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:24 am

It's all very well and good to say that RVs = money, and that the LLC loves money, but the LLC doesn't get any of the rv money, so that's not a gimme.

Come to think of it, the only way I could come to the playa if I didnt' have Super Supportive camp (thank you boobies) is likely to be in an rv. And I'm not the only person there medically. And while I know that the DPW will sneer on those I am about to mention, I know of at least one senior staff member--up early, leaves late--who's able to be more effective, thus make the whole event safer, because he's in an rv. Infrastructure is important; some people are just too close to the edge in a tent.

Igneouss · Post by **Igneouss** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:37 am

Crypto:
There is a large population of folks that would (or could) not attend BM without the level of support that an RV provides. No question about it. One of the big plusses of RVs. My only handicaps are being fat, old and lazy. If I owned an RV i'd be bringing it...

But it's still an interesting philosophical question WRT BM.

Larry stays in an RV.

As for money: If RVs were banned I would guess that 10,000 people would not attend. That's alot of money to BMorg. BMorg is a chartered, for profit, LLC. Anybody that thinks BMorg is some kind of non-profit is living a fantasy.

That said, it won't stop me from attending

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:03 pm

after seeing this :

http://www.unicat.net/en/pics/EX70HDQ-MANTGA6x6-2.html

i've changed my mind on the whole RV thing.

as Liz Lemmon would say, "i need to go to there."