Theme Camps too spread out

hankn40962 · Post by **hankn40962** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:36 pm

I thought the camps were too spread out this year. the esplanade seemed very low key. i think theme camps should go back to being grouped more closely together.

the energy walking from camp to camp was a little muted because of it - i felt, or was all this just my personal experience?

mars · Post by **mars** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:58 pm

I felt just the opposite. I loved the spread because it brought the outer neighborhoods in closer. We who got there a day late due to vehicle problems really appreciated that even though we were a bit in the outskirts, we didn't have to go far to connect with theme camps. Also, we experienced more of a neighborhood feeling. We don't know if that was because of our own camp energy or that people were able to hang around more because they didn't have to go far to participate in theme camps.

The neighborhood feeling was really strong where we were and I'd like to see this theme camp configuration continue and all of us to put more energy into neighborhood development. Next year, we are going to post neighborhood events on a public white board.

Neon (Mars)

Sard Rocklifter · Post by **Sard Rocklifter** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:21 pm

I would agree with Mars. I loved our neighborhood theme camps, having a Ranger outpost and medical help nearby. I feel like it made home easier to find, and provided more to do locally, so we weren't forever running down to the Esplanade or Center camp. Keep the neighborhood plazas going strong!

Tay · Post by **Tay** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:03 pm

The layout of the camps made the event more of a day time experience for me. It was a lot nicer cruising around the city during the day this year. I met a TON of people doing that.

The Bass · Post by **The Bass** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:05 pm

i was on the esplanade but hung out at the 9:00 plaza a bunch - and the 3:00 plaza, too - they were great!

Xavier · Post by **Xavier** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:17 pm

I didn't mind the new configuration except that they took the streets out, which made finding my camp in the dark and giving directions a little tricky.

Sard Rocklifter · Post by **Sard Rocklifter** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:05 am

Xavier wrote:I didn't mind the new configuration except that they took the streets out, which made finding my camp in the dark and giving directions a little tricky.

What do you mean, "took the streets out"??? There were streets all over the place?!?

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:29 am

There were a couple of areas where the ring streets didn't go completely around and it caused some chaos for a few people, myself included.

That being said I loved the new layout and the energy of having the theme camps extend further back into the city. The esplanade was still crowded at times but at least it was passable....unlike previous years where the esplanade was like a zoo. I hope the ORG makes the layout semi-permanent for a while or at least tries it again in 2006.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:16 pm

There's always been a chunk where the one ring street didn't go through from 4:30 to 7:30, nothing new.

malchik · Post by **malchik** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:29 pm

I agree completely. After the burn, the Esplanade was DEAD. It was an eerie and very unfortunate experience - I walked for half the circle on the 3 o'clock side and block after block there was darkness and emptiness. I peeked into 4:30, the theme camps street - it, too, was quite dead. The concentration along the Esplanade created the city, created the crowds, created interactions. The new plan may have created communities, but they were segregated, spread-out, and overall more dead - at night - than ever before (this was my fifth burn.)

dj_john69 · Post by **dj_john69** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:42 pm

I hated the layout this year for theme camps !!! It took so much away from The Esplanade.

I hope they bring back the old layout for next year.

Most of the theme camps totally sucked anyways...nothing big to see or do...just a banner and a couple of drunk people acting dumb overall. (Im NOT saying all the camps BUT alot sucked around my area.)

On a better note, i was stoked with the art this year.

~John

mars · Post by **mars** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:40 pm

One reason our theme camp was closed after the Burn was that we felt the overall energy was too drunken and we didn't want to deal with that, so we buttoned up the shop and went out for a stroll. The esplanade was hopping in the 9 o'clock area.

Bitterman · Post by **Bitterman** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:00 am

dj_john69 wrote:
Most of the theme camps totally sucked anyways...nothing big to see or do...just a banner and a couple of drunk people acting dumb overall. (Im NOT saying all the camps BUT alot sucked around my area.)

Here here Jonny! That's what I've been sayin' this whole time. It's been turned into an angry-drunken-mardi gras bead wearin'- tribal tattoo on bicep-pooka shell necklace-frat boy-lawyer fest- parking-lot-tailgate-party in the dust for druggies! AND the art was way better this year. AND they should F-ing close the gates on WEDNESDAY night @ midnight. AND lastly, the nextly thing you'll probably get is "and what did you do this year to make it more awesome? Maybe your area sucked because YOU sucked spectator!" That's not me mind you, that's just what's cummin' yer way from some of these other yahoo posters.

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:57 am

Well, since I avoid the Esplanade like the plague, especailly on burn night, guess I didn't miss a thing.

DVD · Post by **DVD** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:14 am

AntiM wrote:Well, since I avoid the Esplanade like the plague, especailly on burn night, guess I didn't miss a thing.

Leave it to MaggieMay to give the best Burner tip of all.

There are other sentiments I agree with- the Esplanade Theme Camps were a bit anemic as far as inviting partcipation(the Grass Tent up at 2:30 gets a big exception here) but get up on those radials and they were rockin. I thought the new layout was fantastic and invited you much deeper in to the city.

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:59 pm

Shhh .... you'll give up my secret identity (maggiemayday ... very, very different than maggiemay)

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:28 pm

I am also in agreement that the set up for theme camps this year pretty much sucked. I have always enjoyed just pedaling down the streets parallel to the Esplanade knowing that some adventure always awaited me. Now thankfully, Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro, my personal favorite theme camp as it is most of yours I'm sure, had again a wonderful location on a busy corner and got plenty of visitors and publicity. But the point is made: Change for change's sake is not, by deffinition, good. Why reinvent the wheel?

bradtem · Post by **bradtem** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:52 pm

We were moved from the Esplande to 7:30, one of the new radial "main streets." I have to say traffic on them was less than half of the esplanade, which obviously we were disappointed with, even if it is good to bring folks into the city more.

One of the hindsight errors is that the theme camps on the esplanade at 4:30 and at 7:30 were not planned or instructed to work to make 4:30 and 7:30 inviting. They just parked cars and generators along their sections of the radial streets, making them dark and uninviting. Ideally the camps with these prime corners should have been told they needed to do something interactive on both the esplanade and the radial, or smaller theme camps should have been placed on the corner with most or all of their frontage on the radial between Esplanade and A street.

I found 4:30 to be a bit worse off than 7:30, but I spent most of my time on 7:30 so I may not be an objective judge.

If the idea of radial main streets is to continue, they should be more featured, and given names (in addition to their clock hour) such as main street left and main street right. (Which is confusing, but main street north/4:30 and main street west/7:30 is also confusing.)

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:55 pm

The esplanade was taken up with parked cars, sleeping areas, motor homes and other manner of self cetered crap. The ha ha is to laugh theme camps were dark and uninviting. It is easy to see, theme camp placement is as corupt as the DMV. This was a very low year for the boardwalk type esplanade. By setting the camps back and the theme forwrd and concentrating the theme camps would make a more party like atosphere.

bradtem · Post by **bradtem** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:06 pm

There were certainly highly participatory esplanade camps, as well as 2&10 camps (though I don't go there as often since I like my eardrums.) There were also a number of camps that seemed to be doing little.

An interesting case is Disorient. This is not a do-nothing camp, but this year they had the idea of putting their light show and sound on an art car, marked with "DIS" and their own camp was quiet and just had an "ORIENT" sign on the esplanade. This was a good idea, and I hate to punish them for a good idea, but it seems to suggest that the base need not be on the esplanade.

There are also other camps which are on the esplanade but put their art out on the Playa. Is it good or bad to reward such camps with the prime real estate for their excellent contributions? Also, there is value in being able to see one's art from one's camp and be able to maintan it. If you put art on the playa and camp deep in the city, truth is you will not be able to maintain your art as well, build it as easily, or go out and interact with people at the art as well.

It's a tough choice the city planners have. Everybody wants to be on the esplanade or other prime locations, well most everybody. And there are many ways to contribute to the city.

In the long term, I think it is a good solution to not have as much of an enforced center as we have now. And to generate more valuable real estate so there is enough to go around on our giant playa (but still have things be walkable.)

One thing I am toying with proposing is to have some inner playa inside the city. Large open parks inside the city, with camps fronting on to them, and art inside them, and art cars running around etc. Probably not any major burning art or super-loud art, but there's plenty that could go there. All the frontage around these spaces (which I would make triangular or square) would become valuable space. And there would be art car avenues to the open playa of course.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:16 pm

Hmmm...maybe like a Central Park type concept in the middle of BRC? Vacate one of the middle blocks all the way around the city, leave the ring roads themselves and put art or have open space in there...which in the midst of a chaotic city like BRC where a void just seems to be filled....that could be an interesting idea. Or if the LLC doesn't want to give up so much real estate maybe take out a space from 3 to 4, 5 to 7, and 8-9 to make the parks? It's an interesting concept. A BRC City Park? We already have an airport and DPW, why not parks? What's a city without park space?

The Bass · Post by **The Bass** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:17 pm

bradtem wrote:
An interesting case is Disorient. This is not a do-nothing camp, but this year they had the idea of putting their light show and sound on an art car, marked with "DIS" and their own camp was quiet and just had an "ORIENT" sign on the esplanade. This was a good idea, and I hate to punish them for a good idea, but it seems to suggest that the base need not be on the esplanade.

thanks for the "good idea"...!

the way we thought of it was that we'd provide a homing beacon on the esplanade (DISORIENT by day and ORIENT at night), but mess with people (by moving the "DIS" around at night)... had we not been on the esplanade, the whole concept wouldn't really have made much sense - wouldn't have disoriented anyone.

we also felt that given our esplanade location, we almost HAD to take our parties out of the camp - we got complaints from neighbors at about 1AM on Monday night, which was the only night we had a big party in the camp.

point being that for us, at least, there are limits on how much interactivity we can offer at night without loud sound... which gets you bumped to the edges... unless you come up with some other sort of a notion, as we tried to.

seems like there's sort of a tricky balance there... if the requirement is, "we need more camps that offer a great interactive experience all night but don't use sound over 300 watts of sound..." that might be a tough order to fill.

bradtem · Post by **bradtem** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:31 pm

Well, I would have to say that many camps provide visual orientations on the Esplanade, so it wouldn't be for that reason that I would put a camp on the Esplande If-I-Were-Harley.

My own taste is that there are too many camps that are "just" an interestingly decorated nightclub. I say "just" because it's not that there isn't plenty of work in making these camps, and they are interesting to look at, but Burning Man has, let's face it, plenty of lounges and dance camps. The "bar" is higher here. Lounges, bars and dance camps are a big part of burning man but there's a lot of other stuff to be featured as well.

Being on the esplanade (or other prime locations) has several purposes. First of all, it means more people will see what you do, and interact with it if it interests them. If people aren't looking to find you, being on the esplanade is desireable because they will still find you. If your art needs a lot of space and can't so readily be on a street, it also becomes essential.

There are selfish reasons to be there too. You are camped closer to things, and from your camp you get the best view of all the activity of the open playa. I must admit I missed this a lot, but of course desire for this is no big reason to place somebody on the esplanade.

I have found that having my art in or near my camp is a huge plus. It's easier to build it, easier to get people to help build it, easier to see if something goes wrong with it and fix it, and easier to have campers personally interact with those who enjoy our projects. This is clearly better on the esplanade. Of course, some folks like to put their installations out by the trash fence, for a totally different experience. I can't admit to really understanding that, since it cuts down those who will experience the installation a lot, but it does give a less distracted experience.

Art that is in-camp or on-playa near the camp allows you to spend time with it, and meet and talk with those who experience. This makes the art more interactive, and more personal, and I think it's good.

As for Disorient, I'm glad they did things as they did, as indeed, it is better not to have camps on the streets playing really loud all the time. It's very disruptive to neighbour camps, not just when they want to sleep, but if they have interactive experiences that will be overwhelmed by a lound dance club. For example, my phone booth could not exist next to a loud rave club. Nor could our camp's series of performances of live acoustic music.

carnitas · Post by **carnitas** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:41 pm

Spreading the theme camps only spread out the pain - you couldn't escape the loudness of the theme camps. I was polycamporous this year and can safely say that the loudness back around E was nearly as bad as it was at my camp on the Esplanade (which was next to a disco). I much prefer the old way, where it got quieter as you went back from the Esplande.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:43 pm

My kinetic art broke down. So I placed it in front of the camp. My son told me later that many people stoped by took pictures and enjoyed talking to him about it. This was out at 6:00 x Gestalt. It was my feeble attempt at art. Well worth it to me. I will try harder next year.

Theme Camps too spread out

Theme Camps too spread out

Day time experience

the plazas rocked

Re: Theme Camps too spread out

Best tip

Not sure it was that bad

Re: Not sure it was that bad

yep!