Critical Tits photography

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
Post Reply
User avatar
Davoid
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:34 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by Davoid » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:03 pm

My camp ended up being an island in the sea of CT bikers as they made their way through the walk-in zone to the after-party bike parking area. My GF and I gave loud, clapping, yelling support, tiring as it was (the parade seemed endless, good lord). I wouldn't dare take any photos, out of simple respect. Do I love tits? Damn straight I do, and I admired many whether I intended to or not. But I was more interested in the faces of the women as they rode by, really to see the jubilant ones. But of course I also saw many with their blinders on or with looks of suspicion/hesitation, just for me smiling and waving and applauding, no camera.

I was jokingly (I hope!) accused of placing my camp there on purpose by many, had a few laughs with some, put air in one woman's tires, echoed shouts of "Hooray for boobies!" if it was shouted at me first (I guess that's redundant), and had to turn down one woman after she spotted me painting my GF's boobs for the after party (one of my fave quotes of the week, in fact: "Do you paint titties besides hers?")(I had no time, btw).

So it's sad that something so glorious (and about MANY things besides just "tits") has to be so double-edged with the leechy photogs. At least the afterparty keeps the non-volunteer guys out, though there's a bit of a gauntlet to run to get in.

scarlet_minnow
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:57 pm
Location: Seattle

Critical Mass

Post by scarlet_minnow » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:02 pm

So, I was not on the playa this year, but the past years I've attended have all been like this- womyn love the event for what it stands for, but don't want to end up stumbling across their naked breasts on the Internet or in a "Girls Gone Wild: Burning Man" video someday. What to do?

I personally feel that if there is something to be done, it should start with the womyn. Having male guardians lining the path seems, well, sort of like the damsel in distress syndrome. If we want to be empowered, we should come up with a solution ourselves. Based on some great ideas in this thread, I can think of a couple of solutions.

One would be to organize the purchase of a bulk load of Super Soakers and hand them out, loaded with water, to females at the starting point with instructions to aim for the lens of any and all camaras. If it weren't for MOOP, I'd advocate one step farther- fill the guns with ink or something that will mark the dude, at least for the day, and encourage mocking later. Yes, I realize that would not allow people to take "legit" photos, like the guy who latexed the breasts of the girls in his camp. However, the lesson would be to take your photos before the ride. I do feel that it may be difficult to ride and shoot a water gun... the ride at times gets bottlenecked and it's a lot of start and stop. Maybe I'm uncoordinated, but I require both hands on the handlebars. Maybe we could position some sisters to walk the route with the water guns?

Another idea- damn, I like the t-shirt idea. What if one year there was no Critical Tits ride? I certainly understand the power of releasing body image shame, but maybe if we forgo the bare breasts one year, it would encourage those girls who won't do it now out of fear of photos to join us? What if someone handed out shirts for all to wear that said something like, "Cap the Camara if you want Critical Tits"? You can bet the pressure would mount on the guys with camaras to comply. Let the guys patrol themselves- we can always take off the shirts at the afterparty, right? Or, we could do the ride once in shirts and then double back again topless if it looked like most of the camaras were gone.

I don't have a problem with the shouted comments- I think it just makes the guy who is yelling "show me your titties" look like an idiot. And, you know, free speech and all that. You can't change the perception of a dumb-ass guy who just doesn't get it... but I bet we could change the behavior of snapping pictures when that so clearly goes against the Critical Tits ride. All it would take is Critical Mass.
Be who you are and say what you feel... for those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

-- Dr. Suess

User avatar
HughMungus
Posts: 1813
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Critical Mass

Post by HughMungus » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:38 pm

scarlet_minnow wrote:I personally feel that if there is something to be done, it should start with the womyn. Having male guardians lining the path seems, well, sort of like the damsel in distress syndrome.
I don't think so. There's law enforcement and Rangers at Burning Man yet I don't feel like I'm being babied by them. The women who are participating shouldn't have to worry about anything other than participating. Surely every participant can find a guy to be a CT Guardian. I guess I feel so strongly about this because my own mother was a feminist. Also, I hate dumbass jerks.

That said, what about doing it earlier in the week? I like the idea of having it further out on the playa and/or have a setup where the time/location is not announced (to be found out by visiting a camp with the location information given only to women). Like I said earlier, I think I read in the SG that CT is for women, only. It seems nothing would be lost by having it away from the throngs of morons and photographers.

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10387
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Post by unjonharley » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:16 pm

DP I think your talking about some fists flying here. That is not reasonable. And that includes assult upon a person with a water gun. As in any rule you deside to inforce. Guys are going to take pictures and that's a fact. There are not and wont be any rules on that. If you take you shirt off you should be aware pictures will be taken. Then make your own mind up. What realy pisses me off is when I take my shirt off. Good damn preverts. At my age I have more tit hunging than most of the ladys.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

The Bass
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Supporting CT

Post by The Bass » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:35 pm

lunatrice wrote:Men, you could really show us your support by lining the streets of Black Rock City on Friday wearing bras.
SO doing this. Great idea. Whaddya say, boys??

TheRock
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:36 pm

nope, not kosher

Post by TheRock » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:26 pm

[quote="Driveway"]Thousands of women, riding publicly through the city is not a "Women Only Event"

Critical tits does not celebrate women, or empowerment, or freedom, or even sex. It celebrates tits.

You make the choice to take your shirt off, you make the choice to ride publically. If you have a problem with morons yelling at your tits, that is YOUR PROBLEM.

It becomes everyones' problem when someone crosses the line and does something to you or your tits. Looking at/talking about/yelling at/and even photographing your tits do not constitue actions done TO your tits.

If you disagree you have every right not to participate.

That said, I apologize on behalf of some of my gender. They are fools and not worth your time....though they often still manage to find companionship, which is your fault.




.[/quote]

can you spell M-I-S-O-G-E-N-Y??

I have to apologize for you, now.

TheRock
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:36 pm

Re: Supporting CT

Post by TheRock » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:27 pm

[quote="The Bass"][quote="lunatrice"]Men, you could really show us your support by lining the streets of Black Rock City on Friday wearing bras. [/quote]

SO doing this. Great idea. Whaddya say, boys??[/quote]

yep! i'll be there!

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10387
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Re: Supporting CT

Post by unjonharley » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:30 pm

TheRock wrote:
The Bass wrote:
lunatrice wrote:Men, you could really show us your support by lining the streets of Black Rock City on Friday wearing bras.
SO doing this. Great idea. Whaddya say, boys??
yep! i'll be there!
~
Should I bring my camera¿¿¿¿
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

User avatar
HughMungus
Posts: 1813
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: nope, not kosher

Post by HughMungus » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:16 pm

TheRock wrote:If you disagree you have every right not to participate.
If it sucks, just abandon it! That's the spirit!

So much for community.

TheRock
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:36 pm

Re: Critical Mass

Post by TheRock » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:32 am

How do you just get the part you want quoted in the little box???
anyway...

[quote="scarlet_minnow"] I personally feel that if there is something to be done, it should start with the womyn. Having male guardians lining the path seems, well, sort of like the damsel in distress syndrome. ...

****Disagree with the damsel in distress part. I agree that it is important that it is perceived as a women's event. But this is what I see going on. Women do the parade to confront fear and to change the love-hate relationship they can have with their own bodies. That relationship exists in part because of the very same behavior displayed by men who hoot during the CT. It is just simply bad behavior. It is immature. And it is actually insulting to men to expect that they cannot change it. And it especially insults the men who don't hoot. So, if it is alright with the ladies, I think it would be really great for a few blokes to try to give a demonstration of what it is like for men to be in respectful support of women.

One would be to organize the purchase of a bulk load of Super Soakers and hand them out, loaded with water, to females at the starting point with instructions to aim for the lens of any and all camaras. If it weren't for MOOP, I'd advocate one step farther- fill the guns with ink or something that will mark the dude, at least for the day, and encourage mocking later.

****similar in spirit to the guy who hoots at tits. For a lot of women, my girlfriend being one, CT is about affirming feminitiy without shame, and that means occasionally trying not to shoot/blow-up/dominate people you disagree with. Never mind not being able to ride while holding a gun, it also goes against the spirit of the parade.

Yes, I realize that would not allow people to take "legit" photos, like the guy who latexed the breasts of the girls in his camp. However, the lesson would be to take your photos before the ride. I do feel that it may be difficult to ride and shoot a water gun... the ride at times gets bottlenecked and it's a lot of start and stop. Maybe I'm uncoordinated, but I require both hands on the handlebars. Maybe we could position some sisters to walk the route with the water guns?

Another idea- damn, I like the t-shirt idea. What if one year there was no Critical Tits ride? I certainly understand the power of releasing body image shame, but maybe if we forgo the bare breasts one year, it would encourage those girls who won't do it now out of fear of photos to join us? What if someone handed out shirts for all to wear that said something like, "Cap the Camara if you want Critical Tits"? You can bet the pressure would mount on the guys with camaras to comply. Let the guys patrol themselves- we can always take off the shirts at the afterparty, right? Or, we could do the ride once in shirts and then double back again topless if it looked like most of the camaras were gone.

I don't have a problem with the shouted comments- I think it just makes the guy who is yelling "show me your titties" look like an idiot. And, you know, free speech and all that. You can't change the perception of a dumb-ass guy who just doesn't get it... but I bet we could change the behavior of snapping pictures when that so clearly goes against the Critical Tits ride. All it would take is Critical Mass.[/quote]

****Maybe it is possible to use shame tactics and peer pressure to get back at guys ...but wait a minute, isn't that what the parade is against? shame and peer pressure?...i have a problem with the guy who shouts comments, and so do some mothers riding with their daughters. I don't think it is about the photo ops. i think it is about 1) creating a sense of safety for women at BM (i understand this does not apply to all, but for those who are requesting it, it deserves to be provided) that they can take with them back into life 2) even if you can't change the perspective of a few yahoos you can at least send the message that other men don't think it is the way to go and in that way provide a better model. Again, i don't think it is about saving the damsel in distress. I think men have played a role in creating stigma, so they are an ingredient in healing it, if it is something women wish for, since it is their event.

TheRock
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:36 pm

Re: nope, not kosher

Post by TheRock » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:34 am

[quote="DallasPlaya"][quote="TheRock"]If you disagree you have every right not to participate.[/quote]

If it sucks, just abandon it! That's the spirit!

So much for community.[/quote]

yeah, that's not my quote, wrong author. just for the record.

ubu
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:24 am
Location: aethernity

Post by ubu » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:40 am

don't sell us on this community bulldog, dplaya. are you in a community with all the people that you think don't get it, or are you only in community with those that share your ethics? are the goofers with the cameras in your community? or is it just the cute ladies who think they are doing something for their gender by baring their breasts and then offended by the goofers, that are in your community.

one could argue that the CT party is not in the spirit of Burning Man just because some are excluded, namely said goofers. The last time I went to a CT party was before they said no guys, and it was fun, a little, at least. How does the CT party now fit with radical inclusion?

I don't really care, mind you, but don't fool yourself. Real communities include the undesirables. I'm not proposing anything high-minded though.

Bman is and always was a party. Do what you will. Spare us the sanctimony or give it to us as you will.

User avatar
Steel Kitty
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:11 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

CT

Post by Steel Kitty » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:51 am

ReBA's photograph of the Yahoo's is interesting. There are a few guys who look like they've been out on the playa all week, and then the guy in the middle with the telephoto lens (guess supersoakers are out) who is clean, no dust in sight and is wearing his gold rolex. (who the F wears a gold rolex on the playa unless you've only going for a day of photographs, CTR and then leave?)

1) one of the great solutions is to keep the location of CT secret. There are tons of things I missed because I didn't know about them till afterwords -- and it prompted me to get more involved in BM than reading about it in the BM guidebook.

2) ride around elsewhere on the playa

3) only have one camp where women go to get the info (sort of like an underground rave, if you will)

4) possibly have it earlier in the week to throw off the yahoo's who ONLY buy a BM ticket to photograph naked women (including the CT ride)

Also, personally, I'd like to see BMorg lock down the gates on Wednesday, as it would make it more expensive and time consuming to get the breast shots these guys make money off of. (and don't think they don't)

I come from a European upbringing where breasts are no big deal on the beach and elsewhere. I wish it were that way here.
Life isn't about arriving at the grave well preserved, but rather, sliding in sideways yelling "Holy Shit, what a ride!"

The Bass
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:44 pm
Contact:

Post by The Bass » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:29 am

["Photographer/Videographer/Audiographer Right & Responsibilities (Personal Use)" from http://www.burningman.com/press/pressRa ... ticipantRR]

You have the right to express yourself and create art as a photographer, videographer and/or audio artist.
* If you are filming or videotaping for personal use, you have the responsibility to check in at Playa Info, sign a personal use agreement, and get your camera tagged. This will let others know that you have obtained permission to use your camera. Unless you sign a personal use agreement and obtain a camera tag, you do not have any right to record images at the event.
* You have the responsibility to be respectful to people you wish to record and to seek permission from them before recording their likeness or voice.
* You may use any images that you obtained at the event only for personal use. No commercial use whatsoever may be made of any such images.
* Those who cannot enjoy their rights without acting responsibly may be escorted out of the event.

The Bass
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:44 pm
Contact:

Post by The Bass » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:32 am

it's real simple.

no one's supposed to take pictures without consent.

the guy misting girls and then asking if he could take their picture? fine.

the guys taking pictures of parade participants? not fine.

an argument that by riding in a parade they are consenting to having their picture taken? doesn't fly at burning man, IMHO.

gentle reminders by fellow-burners, some of whom might be boys in bras, about the rules of our community, offered to photographers who are violating those rules? seems reasonable to me....

scarlet_minnow
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:57 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Critical Mass

Post by scarlet_minnow » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:25 pm

<And it is actually insulting to men to expect that they cannot change it. And it especially insults the men who don't hoot.>

Look, if a guy wants to organize something to help CT out, I'm for it. I just don't think we females should have to rely on all the big, strong men for assistance. CT is about female solidarity and male support. Womyn make up the backbone of the event and should play the major role in helping it be whatever they want it to be. I don't think it excludes men, but it does put them in a more supporting role. Men who line the path and shout supportive things or who give gifts (like the bite of ice-cold, home-made blueberry ice cream I got one year that I STILL remember) rock my world.

<For a lot of women, my girlfriend being one, CT is about affirming feminitiy without shame, and that means occasionally trying not to shoot/blow-up/dominate people you disagree with.>

Dude, you do realize that I'm talking about a water gun, right? I am not trying to shoot/ blow up/ or dominate anyone- I simply want to take their camaras out of commission. The fact of the matter is, the camaras are being used illegally- it states on the ticket that no one is to be photographed without their permission. Since no one is obviously enforcing this, I don't think it's beyond the pale to take action ourselves to stop it. No one is going to be hurt; the worst that can happen is someone's camara is damaged. Boo hoo. Use it according to the rules and your camara will be fine.

<Maybe it is possible to use shame tactics and peer pressure to get back at guys ...but wait a minute, isn't that what the parade is against? shame and peer pressure?>

"Getting back at guys"? Um... I think you are missing the point completely- I want to stop people from taking illegal pictures of my naked body to profit from later. Guys are great! People who break both the law and the rule clearly printed on the back of the Burning Man ticket and who profit at my expense are scum.
And there's a HUGE difference that you are missing about when shame/peer pressure is wrong and when it is useful.
Womyn shouldn't feel shame about our own bodies not measuring up to some ridiculous, media-generated ideal. Right? Right.
But should a member of a community feel shame for breaking a rule they agreed to abide by? There are so few rules at this event, but the ones that are there should be enforced somehow. I don't think we need more Rangers or cops, but how about a community that polices itself through shame and peer pressure? This is bad, why?
Be who you are and say what you feel... for those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

-- Dr. Suess

Kinetic IV
Posts: 2977
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine as of 10/27/06

Post by Kinetic IV » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:34 pm

Dude, you do realize that I'm talking about a water gun, right? I am not trying to shoot/ blow up/ or dominate anyone- I simply want to take their camaras out of commission. The fact of the matter is, the camaras are being used illegally- it states on the ticket that no one is to be photographed without their permission.
So are you advocating "playa justice" right off the bat by squirting cameras with water guns? So what if that camera cost $2K with lenses and all, you have no problem ruining it just to get a point across?

There are tons of rules floating around but I thought the overriding cardinal rule (sorry Card) is to not mess with anyone else's experience?

I know there are no easy answers to this and I'm not adding anything with this post. But "playa justice" (taking cameras out) should be reserved for when all else fails, and that means ALL else...every avenue exhausted. Spraying cameras is not the answer folks and that idea needs to be deep sixed for good. Another approach needs to be found.
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!

User avatar
Davoid
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:34 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by Davoid » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:12 pm

Besides the cameras, what about the innocent bystanders? You NSSA (Nat'l Super Soaker Ass'n) types always conveniently forget those poor folks. Say no to drive-bys!

scarlet_minnow
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:57 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by scarlet_minnow » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:30 pm

<So are you advocating "playa justice" right off the bat by squirting cameras with water guns? So what if that camera cost $2K with lenses and all, you have no problem ruining it just to get a point across?>

While I agree with you that playa justice should not be the first option (and, mind you, I did offer the t-shirt idea as well), I still think that by taking photos without consent, the photog is in the wrong. Period, end of story. If someone like that had their 2k camara ruined, I wouldn't weep into my pillow. And it isn't "just to get a point across"- it is to protect my privacy. Don't kid yourself, that 2K lens is probably there to capture professional shots that can later be sold. It's a violation, people. I'm not a violent person and I wouldn't normally injure a person on purpose. But, say, a guy was trying to rape me. Would I feel bad about poking his eye out or crushing one of his testicles? No. Likewise, if you are trying to violate me by taking naked photos of me without permission and your camara gets ruined in the process, that's too damn bad for you.

<There are tons of rules floating around but I thought the overriding cardinal rule (sorry Card) is to not mess with anyone else's experience?>

So why do you not apply that rule to the person snapping pictures? They are messing with my experience- not only ON the playa, but OFF it as well.

You got a better solution? Let's hear it! I'd rather not go vigilante-stylee if the same results can be achieved in another way.
Be who you are and say what you feel... for those that mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind.

-- Dr. Suess

User avatar
ibdave
Posts: 3520
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:09 pm
Burning Since: 1998

Post by ibdave » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:00 pm

Back in '98 when they had Mud Baths, if you were just standing around taking pictures and being a yahooo, the mud people would start to crawl and jump up and grab said yahooo and drag said yahooo into the mud.. If his 2k lens got mud on it, hummmmm. I guess said yahoooo should have had one eye on the lookout.....
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10387
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Post by unjonharley » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:07 pm

scarlet_minnow wrote:<So are you advocating "playa justice" right off the bat by squirting cameras with water guns? So what if that camera cost $2K with lenses and all, you have no problem ruining it just to get a point across?>

While I agree with you that playa justice should not be the first option (and, mind you, I did offer the t-shirt idea as well), I still think that by taking photos without consent, the photog is in the wrong. Period, end of story. If someone like that had their 2k camara ruined, I wouldn't weep into my pillow. And it isn't "just to get a point across"- it is to protect my privacy. Don't kid yourself, that 2K lens is probably there to capture professional shots that can later be sold. It's a violation, people. I'm not a violent person and I wouldn't normally injure a person on purpose. But, say, a guy was trying to rape me. Would I feel bad about poking his eye out or crushing one of his testicles? No. Likewise, if you are trying to violate me by taking naked photos of me without permission and your camara gets ruined in the process, that's too damn bad for you.

<There are tons of rules floating around but I thought the overriding cardinal rule (sorry Card) is to not mess with anyone else's experience?>

So why do you not apply that rule to the person snapping pictures? They are messing with my experience- not only ON the playa, but OFF it as well.

You got a better solution? Let's hear it! I'd rather not go vigilante-stylee if the same results can be achieved in another way.



MOB RULE It's the only way to go. If they don't like that....More mob rule.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

rycaldwell
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:09 am
Location: LosAngeles
Contact:

????

Post by rycaldwell » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:38 pm

where is the photography?

spectabillis
Posts: 3527
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:07 pm
Burning Since: 2020
Location: black rock city

Re: ????

Post by spectabillis » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:19 pm

rycaldwell wrote:where is the photography?

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA Ha Ha ha... oh shit ... heh ... ha Ha HA! HA!



sorry, that was funny

User avatar
DaShiv
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:42 am
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Post by DaShiv » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:04 am

edit

User avatar
DaShiv
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:42 am
Location: Berkeley, CA
Contact:

Post by DaShiv » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:55 am

olivia wrote:This kind of thing makes me wish that all cameras were banned at BM period.
As a photographer, I can't disagree more with much of the sentiment in this thread. Cries of vigilante retaliation with water guns? I had a friend riding in last year's CT who asked me to take some time out of my burn to photograph her ride, and I declined specifically because the attitude of overzealous riders being expressed here and elsewhere. I don't need someone sabotaging my equipment just because I had my camera pointed in that direction and the paranoid woman next to my friend ASSUMED that I was being a yahoo. In a situation like a parade where there are lots of people going by, only the photographer REALLY knows what he's taking a photo of and what the photo is for, period. It's too bad for my friend, since that was her first and likely last BM, and she missed out on having what will probably be her only CT ride documented. (Having a photograph of something like this might not be important to you personally, but there's a reason why photo albums are one of the most important things many attempt to save when their houses are on fire.)
scarlet_minnow wrote:No one is going to be hurt; the worst that can happen is someone's camara is damaged. Boo hoo. Use it according to the rules and your camara will be fine.
And what happens when the person next to you not only consents but WANTS her photo taken during the ride, and because of the logistics of the parade YOU are riding into the picture?

By all means, photogs who single out unwilling subjects before the CT ride or continue to photograph those who have clearly refused consent during the parade are violating the photography rules. However, you're making a wild assumption that merely photographing the parade itself is somehow tantamount to not using the camera "according to the rules", especially when many of the participants WANT to be photographed, whether by a designated photographer or by the public in general.
scarlet_minnow wrote:Don't kid yourself, that 2K lens is probably there to capture professional shots that can later be sold.
That's an awfully broad brush you're painting with. So you think that all the photos in our image gallery were taken by cheap disposable cameras? (Disclosure: I'm on the Burning Man webteam and have images in the image gallery, so I have some personal investment at stake here.)

I lugged well over $10k worth of camera equipment up to the playa this year for a campmate's playa wedding that months in advance I had agreed to shoot, and 10 minutes before the wedding procession was to leave our camp, I had TWO expensive DSLR bodies die from the dust. (Luckily, a frantic last-minute cleaning of various camera openings and battery contacts revived both of them and I was able to shoot the wedding without any further equipment failures.) We photographers already take a LOT of risk and expense bringing our equipment up here for the photos that the rest of you ooh and ahh over long after the event is done; John over at Center Camp Photography has to pay a considerable amount to send out for his medium format gear to be professionally cleaned every year after the event. If I'm at CT shooting a friend/s.o./whatever only to have another rider, misjudging my intentions, taking some poorly-assumed vigilante action just because of where I'm pointing the camera and because of the caliber of my equipment, then I have little doubt that in the heat of the moment I will probably wind up taking some vigilante action of my own in return. Some of us pay the rent with our gear.

Instead of attacking photographers, you can:

* Pull over and ASK what the photographer is doing, who they're shooting, what they're shooting for, etc. Heck, you might even wind up liking their work once you've had a chance to check it out.
* Shake your head no, yell "no photos of me!", or do something similar to make it clear that you do NOT consent to be photographed. Most of us are more than happy to honor that request, and it alerts nearby people to help police any yahoos if they don't put their cameras down.
* Talk to your fellow CT riders and organizers about the photography issue BEFORE you ride. Many don't want to be photographed, but many do, and some even solicit the attention. A healthy exchange of views is almost always a good thing, and during the ride it'll give you some context to gauge reactions by, regardless of whether you fall into the pro- or anti-photography camp. At worst, if none of the nearby riders want to be photographed, you can all watch out for each other against yahoos. ("I shouldn't have to watch out for yahoos" works about as well as "I shouldn't have to lock my bike up when I go pee" -- regardless of your beliefs, the city's grown too big to not take basic precautions.)
* Report tag numbers of photographers who are unambiguously harassing others, or get someone to help you bust untagged cameras. The tagging system is there to protect both those being unwillingly photographed AND to protect rule-abiding photographers from being lumped in with the troublemakers.
* Petition to move CT farther out on the playa and earlier on in the week (say, Tuesday). Sorry for sounding like I'm trying to exclude those who can't arrive earlier, but the later on in the week CT is held and the more of the city CT rides through, the more CT will attract the undesirable elements of the city. There may be thousands of riders in CT, but there are TENS of thousands of OTHER denizens in BRC -- and for many of them, CT is, as Adrian put in an issue of this year's Piss Clear, merely a "boobie barrier" that blocks the path to the porta potties.
* Notify BMORG if you see any CT photos being used inappropriately after the event, or any BM photos of ANY kind being used commercially. You are MUCH less likely to make a mistake doing so than by making broad assumptions about photographers at CT and running the chance of mistakenly crying wolf -- many people with cameras there have friends, partners, spouses, etc. riding in the parade.

Lastly, you're sadly mistaken if you honestly believe that there's a lucrative market out there for "professional shots that can later be sold" of long-range photos of painted breasts taken of a moving target under the harsh mid-afternoon sun. I can think of at least a dozen better situations to take "boobies at Burning Man" photos other than CT -- even if there existed a good avenue by which to sell them, which there doesn't. (Video footage is another issue altogether though.) Making a buck doing photography outside of Burning Man is already tough enough as it is; the profit-to-equipment-risk ratio for photography at Burning Man is just not worthwhile as a profitable enterprise, not to mention the very real legal problems it invites (and the BM legal team is VERY quick to jump on misuses of Burning Man imagery).

Having said that, it's been gratifying for me to have tens of thousands of visitors to my gallery last year, to receive hundreds of thank-you comments/emails, and to have my work included in this year's What Where When. Some of us see photography as our way of giving back to the community -- and yes, as our way of participating. It's clear to me though that because of the misdeeds of a number of yahoos, many CT riders have a particularly narrow view of photography and photographers as a whole, and that's just too bad. It is precisely because of this attitude that I don't try to document anything related to CT, even when asked. Which is a shame, since I do think that good photos can help portray the event in a more positive light and I'd like to do it one of these years.

C'est la vie.

tola
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:14 am
Location: London, UK

Post by tola » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:45 pm

Thank you DaShiv for a most interesting and articulate post. Although I thoroughly enjoyed riding in CT this year, reading the rest of this thread was starting to do my head in a bit. Your rational and factual approach to the issue has given me back the joy. Thanks also for your contributions to the image gallery; they keep me going throughout the year. C'est la joie de vivre!

User avatar
ZaphodBurner
Posts: 1339
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:05 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: The Green Hour 2012 - 9:00 & D
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Post by ZaphodBurner » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:21 pm

My wife and the other women in our camp, a half-dozen total whose breasts I painted at their request, also asked some of the men in our camp to photograph them as they passed on the critical tits ride.

We obliged 'em. I was there on the side waiting, waving, cheering and keeping my camera ready.

If others don't like it, tough shit, I guess. I wasn't there to take their picture. One of my campmates got a great photo of me waving at my wife as she passed.

...then, when the riders curved around between us and the esplanade we had to wait for the whole thing to go by again before we could go watch our friend play piano. Topless women all around us...totally surrounded....they're everywhere....GAME OVER, MAN!

B'sides, I hate to break it to you womyn, but the passage of a few thousand topless women has that sort of National Geographic watching-the-zebras-stampede quality. Fun for a minute, but the fact is, there's a whole hell of a lot more interesting things at BM to point a camera at. Last year I opted to chase down a dust devil and nearly got ran over by a flamethrower-spouting viking ship with a stripper pole for a mast. Now THAT's fuckin' interesting. I'd bet most of those perverts who snap those photos are pretty disappointed when they get home.

The girls got some GREAT photos of the post-ride party, though. ;>
-c
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

Lady V
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:08 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Lady V » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:25 pm

Having read this thread carefully, and having talked to several women who were first time CT participants just afterwards, I am feeling kind of sad. I had planned on riding, but got there a little late...my boyfriend and I were on the esplanade when the first riders turned onto it. As the women rode by, we heard and saw a couple dozen men pointing their cameras at the women's breasts and aggressively yelling 'titties! titties! titties! titties! oooh too small. there's some good ones. hey baby! take a look at THIS!' while grabbing their crotches etc etc

None of the women riding by who saw/heard that were smiling.

A little further on, there were two men shouting, 'goddesses! thank you!' in a respectful way, really lovely.

A little further, more of the hootchie mama! type of camera guys.

I doubt many of them are on this forum, frankly. Obviously, I'm not talking about the 'real' photographers who risk camera equipment and do so with their integrity intact. But that type of man exists on the playa--they are there--and they upset many women who ride. Not all, but many.

The handful of truly lovely women I spoke with afterwards had planned to go to the party afterwards, but felt they had just been in a peep show, and were too discouraged and upset to attend. Fact.

I agree with the EARLIER in the week suggestion, and the suggestion for men who feel some understanding about what this event is about to educate other men who clearly do not. It seems to me that BM, for all its creativity and wonderful rebellious/individualistic-within-community spirit is a microcosm of the culture as a whole, so of course it contains misogyny/objectification/all that jazz. Can't we do better?

can't sit still
Posts: 4645
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: SoCal

Critical Tits photography

Post by can't sit still » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:56 pm

I thought of a couple of things that might help. The overeager bozos are easy to spot. Some of the more gentlemanly observers could inform them that there needs to be more respect and less panting. It's amazing how reasonable guys can become when they feel shamed AND outnumbered.

The women who don't want to be photographed could wear a descreet armband or something.
You can generally tell where someone has their camera focused. If they're zoomed in for the tit shot,,,they aren't someone's spouse. You generally include the face when you photograph a friend. If they're focused on someone with an armband, they need to be instructed more firmly. Might help

The watergun idea just doesn't pass muster. If someone is being plain obnoxious,,,,just have a few designated people on the sidelines with a compact mirror. If a participant feels that a photog is there strictly for titilation, she can ask for a little reflection in his lens.

The pros and the friends aren't the problem. The wankers and the pornos are. It seems like a little effort would go a long way. Just don't make assumptions.
That said,,,I love a womans form. An inward smile and a siggghhh. That's it for me. How could I enjoy her beauty,,,and then turn around and make her feel bad????
1 last thing. They sell a "voyuer lens" If you aim it straight ahead, it takes the pic off at a 30? deg angle.
Dan
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

User avatar
ZaphodBurner
Posts: 1339
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:05 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: The Green Hour 2012 - 9:00 & D
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Critical Tits photography

Post by ZaphodBurner » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:01 am

can't sit still wrote:...(snipped for brevity)
That said,,,I love a womans form. An inward smile and a siggghhh. That's it for me. How could I enjoy her beauty,,,and then turn around and make her feel bad????
1 last thing. They sell a "voyuer lens" If you aim it straight ahead, it takes the pic off at a 30? deg angle.
Dan
Good comments, Dan. Guerrilla education is the key, but some people will die from cluebatting before they get it.

Being a veteran of many a Mardi Gras, I've seen the grunting tourist pack mentality described by a previous poster here on many occasions. Burning Man, being exactly 1.5 million times safer, allows you the opportunity to ride up to somebody and say "Man, that is not cool" and ride on. If enough people do it, they'll get the drift.

It's that simple. And I agree that the gentlemen spectators ought to take it upon themselves to educate or humble the predators and creeps.

-c
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

Post Reply

Return to “Stories”