Do it like they do on the 'Discovery Channel'...

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
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Adonis252
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Do it like they do on the 'Discovery Channel'...

Post by Adonis252 » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:34 am

I am just wondering if anyone else was interviewed by a camera crew from the television station, 'Discovery Channel'. Myself and three others were interviewed at our oasis for "Hot people who need to be cooled down', on tuesday if I don't remember correctly. If you know anything about this I would love to know when it will be aired or how I could get a copy of the episode.
[b][color=green][/color] 8) [/b]

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Did I really?

Post by Adonis252 » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:11 am

I think I did sign a release form....oooops....It seemed like a good idea at the time....Hi mom...

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Post by robotland » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:08 am

The Discovery Times channel guys were taping for the program "Only in America"...but were met with great resistance on several fronts, and I wonder if the piece will be aired.
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Post by Chai Guy » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:54 am

I've heard from sources inside the LLC that the footage has been edited and shown to the organization. I'm unaware if the footage has been approved yet (The LLC must approve the final cut before it is aired).

Action Girl has promised to allow Savebrc.org an opportunity to view the footage before it airs, as well as the opportunity to hand deliver several hundred letters (and counting) of BRC citizens who wish to voice their dissent over allowing a reality television show to be filmed at the event.

For more information and the latest updates, and to have your voice heard (pro or con) go to: http://www.savebrc.org

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Post by DaBomb » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:16 pm

Chai Guy wrote:I've heard from sources inside the LLC that the footage has been edited and shown to the organization. I'm unaware if the footage has been approved yet (The LLC must approve the final cut before it is aired).
They must have approved the footage because an air-date has been set.
Chai Guy wrote:Action Girl has promised to allow Savebrc.org an opportunity to view the footage before it airs, as well as the opportunity to hand deliver several hundred letters (and counting) of BRC citizens who wish to voice their dissent over allowing a reality television show to be filmed at the event.
Apparently, they reneged on this deal because it has been screened, approved, and like I said, an airdate has been set. Whatever happened to the BM credo welcoming community participation and in-put? Perhaps not when there is a voice of dissent.


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ravenluv
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does anyone really know what time it is

Post by ravenluv » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:32 pm

does anyone know the air date?

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Re: does anyone really know what time it is

Post by Eric » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:49 pm

ravenluv wrote:does anyone know the air date?
From the Discovery Channel website:
TLC :: Episode :: Burning Man
... FEB 02 2006 @ 11:00 PM. FEB 03 2006 @ 04:00 AM. FEB 03 2006 @ 07:00 AM. FEB 03 2006 @ 12:00 PM. FEB 03 2006 @ 03:00 PM. DTC — Only in America. Burning Man. ...
I believe it's on "The Learning Channel" (hence the clever "TLC" in the quote above), not Discovery proper.

(edited to change the unneccesary snarky bit)
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Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:10 am

Conspiracy theory I: they waited to do the approval until Action Grl was on the road this month.
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Post by actiongrl » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:57 pm

I remember saying you guys could deliver the petitions in your tutus, but I do not remember saying you'd be invited to the pre-screening. If I did, I'm sorry, but I think it was a misunderstanding, because I can't think of a reason why it would be plausible to invite anyone.

It is important to understand that aside from certain things pertaining to the survival of the event, we don't exercise "creative control" over anyone's piece, and as long as it isn't potentially damaging nor in violation of our Basic Use Agreements, we can't force anyone to edit their piece anyway.

The piece was shown to us just before I left on my trip, and we had a great dialogue about it. Overall the piece is quite funny I think, and should be airing soon on Discovery Times.

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Post by Chai Guy » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:33 pm

actiongrl wrote:I remember saying you guys could deliver the petitions in your tutus, but I do not remember saying you'd be invited to the pre-screening.
From 3playa:
actiongrl - Sep 27 2005, 11:42AM (†) (x)
Chai, I'd love to have those in a printed format, but I can't read unless materials are delivered in a real tutu. Not a Sears tutu, but a real one.

If we time it right maybe you can come in and get a sneak preview of the piece. I'd also be interested to show you "Strange Universe" ("THE SECRET RITES OF BURNING MAN!") from 1996 and a few other pieces.


Chai Guy - Sep 27 2005, 11:47AM (†) (edit)
I was feeling part of the scenery
Andie, sounds good. I shall hand deliver them in a real tutu, and hopefully get a chance to preview the piece. I do want to deliver these objections prior to the LLC signing off on the project however.
http://bbs.3playa.com/?view_thread=369&end=2217#bottom

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Post by actiongrl » Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:41 pm

Gotcha. I see what I said. I wasn't thinking of the screening where they sought approval, but rather just showing you a copy of it sometime after they submitted it. Usually they just mail us a copy, but this time they brought it over and took it away with them again, so I don't have anything to show you, though eventually they will be sending us one when it's completely finished - what we saw was the first cut.

"Maybe you can come and get a sneak preview" is different from "You can come to the screening with the producers." That process is already pretty delicate given that we don't have "creative control" but rather control over holding folks to the terms of the contract - eg., not showing illegal acts or nudity without written permission, or making outright incorrect statements about numbers and statistics, etc. Sometimes even our own employees don't understand that difference and think that we can make someone take something out just because it's inane or what have you, but really, nobody has that kind of control. So, it can be a delicate process to manage people's expectations about how much their opinions can affect a finished piece...

At any rate, I think the piece turned out to be pretty funny, and our only few concerns were addressed cooperatively. David, the producer, is a really good guy.

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Post by Chai Guy » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:24 pm

Actiongrl,

The thing is, we felt the Discovery Times Channel filming at Burning Man was wrong. We invited you and the LLC to respond in a public forum at the event and you (and Maid Marian, and Larry Harvey) graciously declined. Fine.

Then we started a petition drive, we sent you 40 email petitions and you claimed it crashed your server and that you couldn't get any work done. There was even an insinuation that it was some kind of denial of service attack (who knew 40 text only emails would crash a server?) We apologized and asked you what the appropriate channels were for our discourse. After some discussion you agreed to allow us to deliver the petitions in our tutus. You even stated that we might have an opportunity to view some footage (It's not really worth me getting into the semantics of what that footage was or who might be there, I really don't care about that). All we asked for is the opportunity to deliver the petitions BEFORE the LLC signed off on the footage, in the manner that you chose. That opportunity has been denied.

Frankly, I thought we were trying to work together on this, and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. All we've ever wanted was to give people on both sides of this issue a voice.

I don't feel like you've kept your end of the bargain here, and it has nothing to do with not being able to view the footage, I want to make that very clear.

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Post by actiongrl » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:02 pm

deleted due to double posting

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Post by actiongrl » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:02 pm

" it crashed your server"

It crashed my email program. Happens to me a lot on high volume days, because I have too much email. Nothing malicious, although it did put me in a pretty crappy mood that day.

If there was some insinuation that there was every any question we were going to deny them the right to broadcast the footage based on anything that could have been said in your petitions, I'm sorry for that misunderstanding. Having allowed them to shoot, the chances of our denying them permission to broadcast would have been EXTREMELY slim. The piece would have had to violate the agreement we had made with them, and it didn't. I'm sorry this has blossomed into a misunderstanding between us, but what I agreed to do was accept the petitions in written form. I didn't think I was going to have to contact your group to ask that you bring them to me - I figured that since you were motivated to get this information to us, you might proactively contact me about it.

I also offered to show you the piece (I did *not* extend an offer to participate in the approval process) and some others from the archive, to deepen our conversation about the approval process and give you more understanding of our legal rights in the situation. If I gave the impression that the Discovery Times piece would be affected in any way by the delivery of these petitions, I'm sorry, but that's not what I was trying to say. My endeavor was to include you in more information about our Media Process and give you a chance to deliver the feedback in a way that worked on both sides, but I never meant to give the impression that Burning Man was necessarily going to change its longstanding policies on media or back out of letting "Only In America" broadcast because of it.

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Post by capjbadger » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:06 pm

Weither or not our imput was going to change if Discovery Channel was going to broadcast the piece is not the issue here. The fact that the ORG agreed to this in the first place is.

As a new burner, I've read though all the info I could get my hands on and thought I had a pretty good grasp of what BM was suppose to be and the spirit by which it was run.

Seems I have been lied to.

Might as well put a pair of mouse ears on Larry and call it a day... :(
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Post by Kinetic IV » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:55 pm

capjbadger wrote: Might as well put a pair of mouse ears on Larry and call it a day... :(
With regret, don't forget a second pair for AG in this case.
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Post by actiongrl » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:24 pm

I'm not prepared to make this yet another thread where I defend our allowing the media into the event as we have done for ten years. I've had the conversations face to face, on email, and on three different bulletin boards for months now, and while I appreciate that there are some who disagree, I am going to have to admit that I don't think the response to savebrc.org has been so overwhelming as to say that Burning Man really needs to make significant changes to what has been a successfully applied media policy for most of its existence.

I have also spoken with hundreds of people who heard about Burning Man for the first time through the popular media and had a fantastic and transformative time there. The media are part of our experience at the event and working with them is my job, and I did it. If you want to know more about why we allow press at Burning Man, come over to Media Mecca like Chai and Da Bomb did and talk with us about it. Read the Afterburn report where we acknowledge the Discovery Times controversy and explain why we handled it the way we did. (That's due out in the coming months, I just turned in my report.)

I'm basically saying I'm over it with the rehashing and the BBS discussion thereof, though. Frankly, I am increasingly disappointed in how human beings will speak so coarsely to one another online, and I'm really losing my taste for encouraging people to use these mediums when we address newcomers by calling them names... Would any one walk up to me and make that mouse ears comment in person? I doubt it, and if you did, I'd have every right to be indignant about it, and I would. When I have talked about this in person, I've found that many people who expressed outrage about the Discovery Times piece really didn't understand much about our media process or how much media exposure we get. With a little more information, they generally understood our decision...maybe not all supported it, but they at least could understand why we work with the media like we do.

I think I've tried to address that with you guys several times, Chai.
My phone number is going to be sent to you via PM. Using our voices is really the only way i'm willing to discuss this further, because the fact is I've already said my piece online over and again, and I remain of my same opinion.

We've had successful conversations in real life, and I'm willing to hear you out and tell you anything you need to know too. If you feel the world needs to know the outcomes of our conversation, you can tell them about it, but I am not interested in participating in this forum about it.

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Post by capjbadger » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:41 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:
capjbadger wrote: Might as well put a pair of mouse ears on Larry and call it a day... :(
With regret, don't forget a second pair for AG in this case.
My quip was not so much pointing blame at any one person, but simply using him to made a point.

I've seen too many other place/events go down this road. Places I called home. I don't want to see this go the same way.

Now... Where do I sign up? :evil:
I'm not going to stand by and let this die too.
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Post by Kinetic IV » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:58 pm

AG, are you really understanding what Chai's trying to get across to you? I don't think you are and that saddens me because for the longest time I felt you were one person inside the org that still understood the concerns of the participants. Now I don't think that's the case anymore. So Chai only presented 40 names on the petition...hmmm...after reading that comment I felt like damn, unless we have the big bucks like Discovery did to wave in your faces our concerns are not going to be heard...or even stand a chance of getting higher up into the ORG where someone might decide to act on it.

As for the mouse ears comment many people only know me online and few truly know me offline. If I met you in person and felt something was wrong I would look you right square in the eye and say so. It might not be pleasant but it would be done. I did put the "with regret" comment in there because I highly respect you...and I hated saying anything at all. But the event is very important to me, I understand the need for some media attention but months later I still feel this was the wrong thing to do.

I'll shut up now, my voice really means nothing. But at least until now I had the slight illusion that it might.
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Post by actiongrl » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:03 pm

Everything anyone has said has made its way to the top on this one, trust me on that. I'm just telling you that allowing the media has been our policy for a great number of reasons that apply to our experience as the people who organize this event, and that I feel like we did the right thing by our stated policies, and that while we are very very cautious and aware of the rights of our participants and seek to protect the event we all love by working closely with the media, the mere fact of their presence at the event is really not open to debate.

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Post by capjbadger » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:18 pm

actiongrl wrote:Everything anyone has said has made its way to the top on this one, trust me on that. I'm just telling you that allowing the media has been our policy for a great number of reasons that apply to our experience as the people who organize this event, and that I feel like we did the right thing by our stated policies, and that while we are very very cautious and aware of the rights of our participants and seek to protect the event we all love by working closely with the media, the mere fact of their presence at the event is really not open to debate.
"Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience."


This isn't about the media being there, it's about them buying the rights to other people's art and selling that on national TV for their own profit. You sold us out, plain and simple.

Just wondering... What's the taxes on 30 pieces of silver come out to anyway?
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Post by robotland » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:47 am

Having met AG and Larry, I can tell you FOR CERTAIN that she does NOT possess devil horns...Mr. Harvey wouldn't remove his hat, of course.
I think Andie has been very diplomatic, and does NOT deserve to be likened to Judas, or worse, Mickey Mouse. Had it not been for the media, I wouldn't have had a clue about this fantastic event that has enormously enriched my existence, facilitated the meeting of many wonderful people and reinvigorated my artistic career. I can understand how difficult it might be to perceive Burning Man as a perfect, incorruptable experience while at the same time accepting profit-driven camera crews let loose to record it...But all of our existence as human beings involves making such tradeoffs. If I had worked as hard as the BMorg to produce this amazing, unique experience, I'd be flattered by almost any media attention- Girls Gone Wild creeps and amateur pornographers notwithstanding. Conversely, if you wanted to start your own event, and do all the hard work, and then deny the media any access whatsoever, then all power to you. Until recently, I wondered if the Discovery Times program would even be aired- A lot of people seemed to be taken aback by the idea, and I can't say that I blame them. But I have faith that the Powers That Be have and will continue to defend our privacy and our rights as Participants. I'll be curious to see the program, and won't make further conclusions until I have.
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Post by capjbadger » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:38 pm

I'll say it again since it seems people are not understanding. The quips I've been making have been at the ORG as a whole, not at any one person. I'm sure AG and Larry are wonderful people and I have no beef with them personally.
(*Chuckle* Goes to show our mindset when getting compared to Mickey Mouse is worse that being a Judas.. ;) )

That having been said, seems I need to say this again since you are not getting the gist of all this.

The media being there in the first place is NOT the problem.

Read that line again so it sinks in...

The ORG SELLING the rights to other people's art for profit is the issue here. The ORG exploited other people's work and sold it to DC which is directly against the principles that BM is suppose to run on.

If they want to sell, fine. But at least be up front about it instead of hiding behind the lie that BM is somehow without commerce.

"...unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising."

If the media wants in, cool. They get in just like every one else, and act as part of the community and participates, not sitting around being spectators.

Robot, you heard about the event via the media. Cool. I heard about it via social circles. Cool also. (granted I have the advantage of living in the SF bay area). Neither is wrong. I simply have a very hard time putting the actions of the ORG together with “Decommodification” and not seeing the hypocrisy.
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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:49 pm

Image

You might as well be talking to one of these. The ORG is going to do what the ORG wants to do and the participants can take a hike. As long as InHouse funnels those ticket sales simoleons into the treasury and the clique gets their center cafe sales, the ice sales, Lanceland gets to keep up their blatant advertising, volunteers show up for petty crap like taking down holiday decorations, etc, nothing's going to change.

So why go at all? There's still good people there that are not part of the corruption and they make it worth the time invested to go. And yes I said the C word. It's corrupt. It's starting to stink of wretched excess and people are waking up and noticing the stench.
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Post by lazarus » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:13 pm

actiongrl wrote:I'm not prepared to make this yet another thread where I defend our allowing the media into the event as we have done for ten years. I've had the conversations face to face, on email, and on three different bulletin boards for months now, and while I appreciate that there are some who disagree, I am going to have to admit that I don't think the response to savebrc.org has been so overwhelming as to say that Burning Man really needs to make significant changes to what has been a successfully applied media policy for most of its existence.

I have also spoken with hundreds of people who heard about Burning Man for the first time through the popular media and had a fantastic and transformative time there. The media are part of our experience at the event and working with them is my job, and I did it. If you want to know more about why we allow press at Burning Man, come over to Media Mecca like Chai and Da Bomb did and talk with us about it. Read the Afterburn report where we acknowledge the Discovery Times controversy and explain why we handled it the way we did. (That's due out in the coming months, I just turned in my report.)

I'm basically saying I'm over it with the rehashing and the BBS discussion thereof, though. Frankly, I am increasingly disappointed in how human beings will speak so coarsely to one another online, and I'm really losing my taste for encouraging people to use these mediums when we address newcomers by calling them names... Would any one walk up to me and make that mouse ears comment in person? I doubt it, and if you did, I'd have every right to be indignant about it, and I would. When I have talked about this in person, I've found that many people who expressed outrage about the Discovery Times piece really didn't understand much about our media process or how much media exposure we get. With a little more information, they generally understood our decision...maybe not all supported it, but they at least could understand why we work with the media like we do.

I think I've tried to address that with you guys several times, Chai.
My phone number is going to be sent to you via PM. Using our voices is really the only way i'm willing to discuss this further, because the fact is I've already said my piece online over and again, and I remain of my same opinion.

We've had successful conversations in real life, and I'm willing to hear you out and tell you anything you need to know too. If you feel the world needs to know the outcomes of our conversation, you can tell them about it, but I am not interested in participating in this forum about it.
Then why don't we stop beating around the proverbial bush and call BM what it really is. A business. And as a business, the bottom line or profit is the driving force or motive. It is a LLC, which means for profit with the protection to the individual corporate shareholders from most liablility lawsuits. Businesses, in order to survive, advertise. Hence the presence of non-journalistic media such as the DIscovery Times people. Org sells them the rights to gain additional profit. The problem comes the Org claims that it is not a business. That it is protecting your art by preventing unwanted use. But yet they sell those rights. Time for a fresh look at profit vs non-profit. Just my opinion.

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Post by actiongrl » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:38 pm

I don't consider a channel between Discovery Network and the New York Times "non-journalistic". Most every legitimate news outlet I know of accepts advertising. It's how the news gets told.

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Post by capjbadger » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:46 pm

actiongrl wrote:I don't consider a channel between Discovery Network and the New York Times "non-journalistic". Most every legitimate news outlet I know of accepts advertising. It's how the news gets told.
I'll have to agree with AG on this one. The news is paid for by ads. plain and simple. If anything, I'd say Discovery is more "journalistic" with their documentries than your typical news outlet (ABC, NBC, CBS, Etc.) with their hype and shock value news "services".
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Post by HughMungus » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:12 pm

Burning Man is a private event to which you are invited. If you don't like the paramaters, don't go. If you have a problem with something, send an email and maybe even verify that it was received but then LET IT GO. I think BORG does listen to complaints and suggestions but it's not a democracy. I don't think it can be. Realizing this will relieve some of you of a lot of stress. It used to bug the hell out of me that they hand out out a ton of MOOP at the gate, that a lot of stupid "art" gets funded, and that "the man" gets bigger and more complex each year (money I think could be spent better elsewhere). But I'm not going to spend a lot of time bitching about it. I'll post on here or send an email to whoever and then I just let it go because I know I'm a guest.
It's what you make it.

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Post by lazarus » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:13 pm

I disagree. NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, FOX etc. Television news. Journalists. New York Times, Denver Post, Los Angeles Times, etc. Print journalists. All others are pseudo journalists, hype mongers, paid for advertising for BM. But let's get back to the point that BM is a business. A business that uses volunteers to increase the profit for the Org. You call it an Org, but it is a business that makes a profit. You want the illusion that it is an ephemeral event, which it is, however it is still a business. Change it to a 501c3 and it becomes a non-profit. Keep in mind I don't mind buying a ticket, attending the event and having fun but when the Org claims a "halo about ones head" they should reflect same in their actions and words.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:14 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:You might as well be talking to one of these.
Mmmm... Graphic. Nice.

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