Do it like they do on the 'Discovery Channel'...

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
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Kinetic IV
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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:15 pm

when the Org claims a "halo about ones head" they should reflect same in their actions and words.
Nailed it. AMEN!

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Post by capjbadger » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:35 pm

HughMungus wrote:Burning Man is a private event to which you are invited. If you don't like the paramaters, don't go. If you have a problem with something, send an email and maybe even verify that it was received but then LET IT GO. I think BORG does listen to complaints and suggestions but it's not a democracy. I don't think it can be. Realizing this will relieve some of you of a lot of stress. It used to bug the hell out of me that they hand out out a ton of MOOP at the gate, that a lot of stupid "art" gets funded, and that "the man" gets bigger and more complex each year (money I think could be spent better elsewhere). But I'm not going to spend a lot of time bitching about it. I'll post on here or send an email to whoever and then I just let it go because I know I'm a guest.
You are not invited, nor are you a guest, nor is it private. The event is open to anyone who has the money to buy a ticket.
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Post by HughMungus » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:38 pm

capjbadger wrote:
HughMungus wrote:Burning Man is a private event to which you are invited. If you don't like the paramaters, don't go. If you have a problem with something, send an email and maybe even verify that it was received but then LET IT GO. I think BORG does listen to complaints and suggestions but it's not a democracy. I don't think it can be. Realizing this will relieve some of you of a lot of stress. It used to bug the hell out of me that they hand out out a ton of MOOP at the gate, that a lot of stupid "art" gets funded, and that "the man" gets bigger and more complex each year (money I think could be spent better elsewhere). But I'm not going to spend a lot of time bitching about it. I'll post on here or send an email to whoever and then I just let it go because I know I'm a guest.
You are not invited, nor are you a guest, nor is it private. The event is open to anyone who has the money to buy a ticket.
If it's not a private event, how do they get to kick people out when they cause trouble? If it's not a private event, how do they get to make rules?
It's what you make it.

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Post by lazarus » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:39 pm

An event(business) in which you are required to buy a ticket to attend. That is not an invitation. Just like buying a ticket to a basketball(business) game. A private event on public land. And they can throw you out. Just like any other business. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".

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Post by HughMungus » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:32 pm

lazarus wrote:An event(business) in which you are required to buy a ticket to attend. That is not an invitation. Just like buying a ticket to a basketball(business) game. A private event on public land. And they can throw you out. Just like any other business. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
I get an invitation to attend in the mail every year. This year's has some big hand thing with some kid or something. Hanging up at work. And by "invitation" I mean "invitation to buy a ticket". :D
It's what you make it.

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Chai Guy
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Post by Chai Guy » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:35 pm

I just let it go because I know I'm a guest
ITYM: "Customer"

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HughMungus
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Post by HughMungus » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:46 pm

Chai Guy wrote:
I just let it go because I know I'm a guest
ITYM: "Customer"
I see it as it is. Since some of us have so much invested in Burning Man, I think we feel like we have a lot of ownership of it. We really don't. Since reading up on the history of the event and quotes from the principals about the event, I've learned that it's their party, they know it's their party, and we are their guests. Honestly, I think it has to be that way. If you know anything about the ways Burning Man could have gone under a weaker hand, you'd understand. Yeah, we can make suggestions but it's like when I go to my friends' houses: I might say, "Hey put some better music on," but I don't get bent out of shape if they don't. I accept it for what it is; I'm so happy that I have cool friends who want me at their house that nothing else matters much.
It's what you make it.

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ravenluv
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hand to the big, kid

Post by ravenluv » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:51 pm

i didn't get an invitation. is the artwork posted somewhere? i want to see that kid with the big hand. guess i should have bought my ticket earlier than when i arrived last year, but maybe eplaya will save the day yet. can i get a reference? i don't care about the invitation, i just want to see the artwork.

lots of poignant stuff on this thread today.

hopes and fears...

i think the best idea was to start other such events. haven't many of us had those dreams where the event is in a green land amongst trees? there are so many possibilities.

being noticed hasn't always worked out well, nor has it always been the worst thing to happen. i just hope i see myself on tv. i fear how tasteless and annoying the commercials might be. the future will be here soon and then we'll see what all the bickering was about. and maybe it really is funny.

all i know is that it is possible that i saw them filming in front of the man when mini-man's demands appeared to make the man's lights go off for a moment. it could be interesting to see what they put together. if it can convey the idea that artistic endeavor is an energizing and liberating force and should be associated with intelligence and reasonably enlightened ambition, then i'll be happy with it.

as for the commercials....

:D and :twisted: : :arrow: :?:

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Post by robotland » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:08 am

HughMungus wrote:
Chai Guy wrote:
I just let it go because I know I'm a guest
ITYM: "Customer"
I see it as it is. Since some of us have so much invested in Burning Man, I think we feel like we have a lot of ownership of it. We really don't. Since reading up on the history of the event and quotes from the principals about the event, I've learned that it's their party, they know it's their party, and we are their guests. Honestly, I think it has to be that way. If you know anything about the ways Burning Man could have gone under a weaker hand, you'd understand. Yeah, we can make suggestions but it's like when I go to my friends' houses: I might say, "Hey put some better music on," but I don't get bent out of shape if they don't. I accept it for what it is; I'm so happy that I have cool friends who want me at their house that nothing else matters much.
Bravo! Well said.

I've been wrestling with how to express my opinion about the artistic-exploitation-angle of this whole business. I really hope that the DTs crew managed to interview David Best, and that they air the results...As arguably the most high-profile artist involved with the event, and given his position in the BRAF, I believe that his insights would prove very enlightening. I'd actually like to hear more feedback from ANY artists that feel exploited. I just can't summon a mental picture of the BMorg Artistic Exploitation Group twirling their mustaches and laughing as artists lay screaming, tied to the railroad tracks.

And Ravenluv, I'm with you about MiniMan... I "roadied" for Mini after the Temple Burn, and got to see firsthand how people responded to him. Wish I'd been there to see the Man wink at his boy!
Howdy From Kalamazoo

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Chai Guy
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Post by Chai Guy » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:37 am

Yeah, we can make suggestions but it's like when I go to my friends' houses: I might say, "Hey put some better music on," but I don't get bent out of shape if they don't
.

It's more like if you went over to your friends house, and he charged you $200 at the door, and then asked you to build some art, and help with security, and maybe serve some drinks (which he was charging the other guests for) and then your other friends came over and built some other art, and then the host invited the Discovery Times Channel over to film everything for a reality TV show, which they would sell ad space for generating hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue, but which you and all the other people who helped with the party would see none of. It's more like that.

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Post by Chai Guy » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:34 am

I'd actually like to hear more feedback from ANY artists that feel exploited.
"We lead lives that are deadeningly passive. Everyone is sorted out in a seperate stall, like cattle in a feed-lot. Every time anything like real culture is produced by a creative community it's expropriated and flogged in the media and turned into a cliche - it used to be six years, now it's six months it's getting down to six weeks." -- Larry Harvey

"Without all the effort of all the people that attend (people that pay for the privilege to attend) you wouldn't have much of anything to sell to the media besides a big tent, a wind fence and a lot of portable toilets". Father Larue, citizen of Black Rock City and founder
of Playazon.com

"someone on eplaya said "we are not a leave-no-trace event, we are a leave-no-trace-there event". sadly, this is true. however, once you are ON the playa, all usage of commercial advertising is highly discouraged. why? because quite frankly, i always thought we don't want to see that kinda stuff out on the playa. i guess to me this simply extends to beyond the playa. i don't want to be on discovery, no matter how respected they are as journalists. " - RA

"You yourself (Maid Marian) once said about the Project: "We don't encourage radical self-expression so people can find themselves for sale in a video store." So, I'm just wondering if now, 19 years since the beginning of the event, it's OK to find myself for sale on cable TV?" -DaBomb

"when huge conglomerates come in to "observe" us (as if we're on display for their enjoyment), pay the BM-LLC fees to do so and the those that work so hard to make this COMMUNITY what it is do not have any say so in it whatsoever, it makes me wonder what this COMMUNITY is really about?" Alanna - Super Hooper

"I don't see how anyone affiliated with the Burning Man event could see this decision as any other than a complete reversal of the precepts that underlay the event, that have been put forth by Larry Harvey and the Burning Man LLC time and time again as its founding principals. I refer to the concept that the Burn is a noncommercial event where the participants are free to produce the unique community and art which lies at the soul of the festival in an field of radical self-expression." - Diode

We also have several hundred letters of protest that say pretty much the same thing. (and 2 or 3 in support of the filming as well).

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Post by HughMungus » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:53 am

Chai Guy wrote:
Yeah, we can make suggestions but it's like when I go to my friends' houses: I might say, "Hey put some better music on," but I don't get bent out of shape if they don't
.

It's more like if you went over to your friends house, and he charged you $200 at the door, and then asked you to build some art, and help with security, and maybe serve some drinks (which he was charging the other guests for) and then your other friends came over and built some other art, and then the host invited the Discovery Times Channel over to film everything for a reality TV show, which they would sell ad space for generating hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue, but which you and all the other people who helped with the party would see none of. It's more like that.
But Chai, the thing is, we're going to go to Burning Man and do all that stuff we do whether someone is making money from it or not. Many artists create great, meaningful pieces of work that touch many lives but hey -- they'd like to get paid for their work, too, because that's how you get to keep doing it (and help others who are less fortunate do their art, too). If Harvey and crew are getting rich from what they've created, good for them. They have bills to pay, too.

Regarding volunteers: yes, we're helping someone make money. But we're also helping keep the cost of attending down for others and I'd bet that all volunteers get something out of it themselves. I know I do -- I get to feel good about it and I get to feel like I'm helping to shape the event at a person-to-person level. A lot of organizations that help society work the same way (e.g., the Red Cross -- the people who run it are not volunteers).

All I care about is that someone has created an environment where we get to do what we do and from which a lot of us take its lessons back out into the world. To me, that effect of that is worth whatever it costs whether that's paying in or volunteering. If it wasn't, I'd stop going. I don't see where the harm is.
It's what you make it.

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capjbadger
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Post by capjbadger » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:59 am

Wow.. Thank you Chai. That really puts things into perspective. :)

BTW, was that 2 or 3 hundred letters in support, or just 2-3 letters? Just to be clear. :)
Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

Honey Badger don't care. Honey Badger don't give a shit!

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Post by capjbadger » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:10 am

HughMungus wrote:But Chai, the thing is, we're going to go to Burning Man and do all that stuff we do whether someone is making money from it or not. Many artists create great, meaningful pieces of work that touch many lives but hey -- they'd like to get paid for their work, too, because that's how you get to keep doing it (and help others who are less fortunate do their art, too). If Harvey and crew are getting rich from what they've created, good for them. They have bills to pay, too.
Wow... Its been a long time since I've seen someone miss the point so completely...

BM has a set of principles it runs on. Principles that make BM special and unique. This whole thing flys in the face of that.

I don't personally care if Larry and Co. are rich or not. Its not their art to sell in the first place! This is not a place to make money. If that's your aim, stay in the real world.

Try reading here again and getting back to us...
http://www.burningman.com/whatisburning ... iples.html
Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

Honey Badger don't care. Honey Badger don't give a shit!

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ravenluv
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faming the flames

Post by ravenluv » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:22 am

when i returned from my first burn in 2002 and ran around excitedly telling everyone i knew about it (who of course thought i'd stumbled onto a cult of some sort), several people told me they'd seen a show about it on the travel channel or some similar source.

was that show different than the upcoming one?

was there as much controversy surrounding the filming and airing of that show?

is this a new and disturbing trend or are these commercial-funded efforts to show everyone what we're up to an occasional kind of thing?

i'm woefully uninformed about many things. it appears that keeping bm off the commercial channels is a bit like the seperation of church and state issue that keeps bubbling up in the default world. it is good that there are people who are passionately trying to preserve that seperation.

just before heading to bm 2004, i met a middle-aged woman in kansas city who had heard of bm, though all she seemed to know was that it was the place where "them nekkid people are". perhaps this show will steer away from that kind of prurient interest angle and focus more on the creative aspect.

bm grew up in a different national political environment than it now exists. something tells me that in the current environment it might not be so bad to have a little wider public exposure that highlights the more substantive aspect of the event and moves beyond the 'crazy party' angle so many other public exposures have focused on.

there is nothing that i or anyone else can say that will settle this controversy and make everyone happy. what's done is done. i'm sure we all hope that this doesn't dissuade many artists from participating.
now that it's done, we must wait to see what good or damage results.

bm is a business, but it's the kind of business that is still being run by people who were in it from the beginning. it's usually the second or third generation of managers that take the soul out of the enterprise and turn it into a pure money monster. i trust that the current generation is still trying to keep the soul of this thing alive. i am sure that it is good that they receive feedback from many sources.

the entire enterprise is an evolving piece of art. this has never been done before. those running the enterprise are more keenly aware than many that the whole operation is sitting squarely in the nether regions between art/commerce (we pay to create and see art yet ban commercialism) and public/private (we build our own city with its own rules on public land).

i'm really just restating much that's been said before. i've contributed nothing. but then, that's my thing....

to robotland: i'm not sure if the man was 'winking' or not. mini-man was being quite the demanding child, yelling at the man to "talk to me, dammit". that's when the lights went out. it's all open to interpretation, of course.


Art and Advertising : The Unholy Lovechild

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Post by DaBomb » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:27 am

capjbadger wrote:BTW, was that 2 or 3 hundred letters in support, or just 2-3 letters? Just to be clear. :)
2-3 letters.
Love & Rockets,
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Post by Chai Guy » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:02 am

Make no mistake, the issue isn't about Larry Harvey and Company making money. I've said this before, but I hope they all get stinking rich off of this. I really do. They earned it, and I'll gladly give them my money, and my time to make this thing happen.

Allowing an outside corporation to profit from all of that hard work, and creativity is an entirely different issue.
was that show different than the upcoming one?
That's a good question, and yes, I believe this show is somewhat different from anything that has been done in the past. It's a "reality" tv show, centered on sensationalism. The tag line to the show is:
"Take an eye-opening journey across the country to experience America's unique subcultures from the inside."

It's a "Hey middle America, check out the freak-show!" kind of EXTREME journalism, and I use the term "journalism" very loosely, you can go to savebrc.org site and read about the conduct of the crew, which includes planting actors in interviews, and throwing eggs at the man while the pyro crew sets it up for the burn.

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Post by HughMungus » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:26 pm

capjbadger wrote:
HughMungus wrote:But Chai, the thing is, we're going to go to Burning Man and do all that stuff we do whether someone is making money from it or not. Many artists create great, meaningful pieces of work that touch many lives but hey -- they'd like to get paid for their work, too, because that's how you get to keep doing it (and help others who are less fortunate do their art, too). If Harvey and crew are getting rich from what they've created, good for them. They have bills to pay, too.
Wow... Its been a long time since I've seen someone miss the point so completely...

BM has a set of principles it runs on. Principles that make BM special and unique. This whole thing flys in the face of that.

I don't personally care if Larry and Co. are rich or not. Its not their art to sell in the first place! This is not a place to make money. If that's your aim, stay in the real world.

Try reading here again and getting back to us...
http://www.burningman.com/whatisburning ... iples.html
Are you referring to "Decommodification"?

"In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience."

How does a television show supported by advertising commodify my experience AT Burning Man? How does it affect Burning Man and how people feel about Burning Man at all? I don't see how "our culture" is being negatively impacted by the use of sound and images *outside of* our culture. I think you're confusing Burning Man with the world outside Burning Man (I mean the culture, not the event). Burning Man is not the real world but it has to exist inside of it, not separately from it.

You do know that BORG has been making money from sound and images for a long time, right? Why is it only now, years after people have made money from Burning Man (usually sharing some with BORG) that you are complaining about external entities making money from the sounds and imgaes at Burning Man? If I were an artist and I saw my work on TV, I would think, "Great. My art is on TV. More people are seeing it. I'm getting exposure. BORG gets some money." It's particularly good for the community because the money that's made means more grants for artists. Everybody wins. Who loses?
It's what you make it.

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Post by HughMungus » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:27 pm

Chai Guy wrote:Make no mistake, the issue isn't about Larry Harvey and Company making money. I've said this before, but I hope they all get stinking rich off of this. I really do. They earned it, and I'll gladly give them my money, and my time to make this thing happen.

Allowing an outside corporation to profit from all of that hard work, and creativity is an entirely different issue.
was that show different than the upcoming one?
That's a good question, and yes, I believe this show is somewhat different from anything that has been done in the past. It's a "reality" tv show, centered on sensationalism. The tag line to the show is:
"Take an eye-opening journey across the country to experience America's unique subcultures from the inside."

It's a "Hey middle America, check out the freak-show!" kind of EXTREME journalism, and I use the term "journalism" very loosely, you can go to savebrc.org site and read about the conduct of the crew, which includes planting actors in interviews, and throwing eggs at the man while the pyro crew sets it up for the burn.
Have you seen the 1997/1998 piece that TLC did?
It's what you make it.

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Post by capjbadger » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:49 pm

HughMungus wrote:Are you referring to "Decommodification"?

"In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience."

How does a television show supported by advertising commodify my experience AT Burning Man? How does it affect Burning Man and how people feel about Burning Man at all? I don't see how "our culture" is being negatively impacted by the use of sound and images *outside of* our culture. I think you're confusing Burning Man with the world outside Burning Man (I mean the culture, not the event). Burning Man is not the real world but it has to exist inside of it, not separately from it.

You do know that BORG has been making money from sound and images for a long time, right? Why is it only now, years after people have made money from Burning Man (usually sharing some with BORG) that you are complaining about external entities making money from the sounds and imgaes at Burning Man? If I were an artist and I saw my work on TV, I would think, "Great. My art is on TV. More people are seeing it. I'm getting exposure. BORG gets some money." It's particularly good for the community because the money that's made means more grants for artists. Everybody wins. Who loses?
I haven't been around for years to speak out against past years' actions of the ORG. Moot point. Next...

How does this commodify your experience? By making YOU and your art a commodity to be sold and without your say so. And those that have spoken out and been all but ignored.

*sigh* I grow tired of whacking my head against the brick wall in yours. This is about BM taking money to let a TV crew come in, and steal the art of the community. And this is about the ORG going against the principles that the event is based off of.
If they don't wish to follow said principles, fine, take them away. I don't care. But don't be f**king hypocrites and say one thing and then do another.
Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

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Post by Chai Guy » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:55 pm

I just spoke with Actiongrl on the phone and DaBomb and I will be delivering our letters of dissent to her in person next week. We really appreciate AG allowing us this opportunity.

As for the rest of the debate, I'll post my arguements in a graphical format later on. Some people are visual learners.


Thanks!

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Post by HughMungus » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:57 pm

capjbadger wrote:I haven't been around for years to speak out against past years' actions of the ORG. Moot point. Next...
If you had been around for years you would know that Burning Man sounds and images being commodified OUTSIDE of Burning Man has been going on forever.
How does this commodify your experience? By making YOU and your art a commodity to be sold and without your say so. And those that have spoken out and been all but ignored.
So you never saw a book or news story or documentary on TV about Burning Man before you came? If you did see one of those things, how could you not know that this was already going on? If you did know it was already going on, why did you come anyway? If you came anyway and were OK with it, knowing that it might happen, why are you bitching about it now?
*sigh* I grow tired of whacking my head against the brick wall in yours.
I know how you feel.
This is about BM taking money to let a TV crew come in, and steal the art of the community. And this is about the ORG going against the principles that the event is based off of. If they don't wish to follow said principles, fine, take them away. I don't care. But don't be f**king hypocrites and say one thing and then do another.
Again, who loses?

You do understand the difference between what happens inside the Burner community between Burners and what happens outside of it, right? I spelled that out for you earlier but you didn't refer to it at all.
It's what you make it.

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Post by capjbadger » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:20 pm

HughMungus wrote:If you had been around for years you would know that Burning Man sounds and images being commodified OUTSIDE of Burning Man has been going on forever.
I am well aware of BM selling sounds/images outside of BM. I like to pick my debates one at a time thanks. :)
HughMungus wrote:So you never saw a book or news story or documentary on TV about Burning Man before you came? If you did see one of those things, how could you not know that this was already going on? If you did know it was already going on, why did you come anyway? If you came anyway and were OK with it, knowing that it might happen, why are you bitching about it now?
Actually, no I didn't. I found out about it via word of mouth from Burners and then dug up all the other info off this board and the main site before I went. Still it took actually going and particapating to understand the problem with what was going on with DT, even though I had heard about it before going.
Why would I go anyway knowing what was going on? Because sticking one's head in the sand never solved anything. (No, I'm not saying that thats what you are doing, so don't get your feathers all ruffled)
HughMungus wrote:I know how you feel.
Well at least we agree on something. ;) *chuckle*
HughMungus wrote:Again, who loses?
This isn't about winning or losing. Its about principles (no pun intended) and being a hypocrite.
HughMungus wrote:You do understand the difference between what happens inside the Burner community between Burners and what happens outside of it, right? I spelled that out for you earlier but you didn't refer to it at all.
Of course I do. Do you understand this?
"...unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising."
Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

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Kinetic IV
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Post by Kinetic IV » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:46 pm

Sheesh, this is getting ugly and in hindsight I wish I'd kept my mouth shut. Too late for that, I'm looking forward to the show, we'll see if they do it right or mangle it. And who knows they may put together something spectacular that many of us want to show others who don't understand that event in the desert that we love so much.

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:30 pm

Yeah... its really easy to loose your cool when you feel passionate about something. Not to say thats wrong, especially when we are raised in an apathetic world that takes every attempt to waterdown and slowly grind passion into dust.

But on the other hand, it does not help the discussion in making your points. The people you are either trying to convince or understand pretty much dismiss anything you have to say.

But it happens.

actiongrl
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Post by actiongrl » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:42 pm

I'm feeling pretty good about the resolution of this discussion that's happened in person/on the phone/offline. I offer big thanks to Chai Guy and Tanja for exchanging a civil dialogue and, really, for believing in something and being passionate about it. We may not see eye to eye but I have appreciated your approach whenever we speak in person.

One thing I've learned is that there's still a need for more education about our media policies, and I'm planning to augment some information about use of imagery and the rights of participants to the text that already exists in the media section. Perhaps if there is more understanding out there of what we do and don't (AND can and cannot) do with visiting media at Burning Man, there will be fewer spittin'-tacks debates about it later. (Mind you, this thread wasn't the worst of it.) Thanks for a chance to improve our communication.

See you guys on Tuesday in your tutus.

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HughMungus
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Post by HughMungus » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:44 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Sheesh, this is getting ugly and in hindsight I wish I'd kept my mouth shut. Too late for that, I'm looking forward to the show, we'll see if they do it right or mangle it. And who knows they may put together something spectacular that many of us want to show others who don't understand that event in the desert that we love so much.
It's not getting ugly at all.

I do find it hard to believe that the people who are complaining about Burning Man being sold out didn't know that sounds and images from the event are sometimes used commercially and have been for a long time. I'm equally mysified as to why someone who knows that those sounds and images are used commercially would choose to attend then complain about how things are. Oh well. Some people hate windmills.
It's what you make it.

Kinetic IV
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Post by Kinetic IV » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:59 pm

I've attended for 4 years now. I honestly did not know that. What stayed locked in my mind is the zeal at which the ORG went after people using images without permission, ie: the London Underground Pepsi ad, the Voyeur Video situation, etc. So I thought they were tight fisted on giving out permissions on using sounds and images. Again I honestly did not know this.
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!

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capjbadger
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Post by capjbadger » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:07 pm

I too don't feel this was getting ugly. A good healthy debate, eh Hugh? :)

Umm.. have you been reading my posts? I've already said that I knew about the sounds and images being used commercially by the ORG. And quite frankly, I don't feel that someone who hasn't attended has much ground to stand on.

The whole "I don't like the way things are so I'm going to take my ball and go home" is a rather poor way to act in my book. If you don;t like the way something is, act...

Hmmm... Windmills? A historical reference perhaps? I'm not familiar with the saying, or exactly what you are trying to say.
Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

Honey Badger don't care. Honey Badger don't give a shit!

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capjbadger
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Post by capjbadger » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:09 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:I've attended for 4 years now. I honestly did not know that. What stayed locked in my mind is the zeal at which the ORG went after people using images without permission, ie: the London Underground Pepsi ad, the Voyeur Video situation, etc. So I thought they were tight fisted on giving out permissions on using sounds and images. Again I honestly did not know this.
Another great example of "Do as I say, not as I do for myself"... :)
Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

Honey Badger don't care. Honey Badger don't give a shit!

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