Treatment of Women at BM

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scorpio80
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Treatment of Women at BM

Post by scorpio80 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:55 am

I just came back from my 3rd burn... Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I love about BM. However, one thing I do not care for is that I believe women are treated the same at BM as they are outside of BM. I don't feel that free when I'm out there. I thought it was supposed to be this place where I could go topless if I wanted and not be harassed and I wouldn't have to worry about men making disgusting comments etc.

I can't count all the times men made disgusting/rude comments/lewd gestures to me, my sister, and women I saw out there. Maybe I was naive to it before, but I saw A LOT of it this year. It was from all types of men, all ages, some dressed up in costumes and some not.

Examples:

I saw 2 young topless women putting in street signs at 3:00 and Chance. They looked as though they had been in the sun all day and were very tired. Across the street, about 4 or 5 men were on top of an art car, shouting down things to them like, "Ooh, look at you girls! Yum! Look how hot that is..." Etc... Then they proceeded to take pictures. The girls looked really annoyed but did not say anything to them.

I got approached on the playa (while out with my fiance and my sister) by a guy from the Canadian eating contest camp. He gave us each a postcard with info about the event. I was fine with this part, I knew I wasn't going to go, and I didn't respond to him, I just took it. He then proceeded to stick his tongue out me, do some lewd actions and say he's worn down many a tongue ring, and that I should stop by...

My sister went to a steam bath with someone from our camp. The guy next to her kept rubbing up and down on her leg while she was next to him, and kept trying to pick up on her, and she had to tell him to back off.

While riding my bike in shorts and a bikini top, I had a guy tell me, "well, what do we have here? Look at that top." The whole time he's staring at my chest.

I heard countless times, men yelling through megaphones at girls things such as, "Take it off" and "Nice rack."

I was watching the DPW parade of cars with my fiance. A girl was standing right on the side of the road with her top off. Two guys in a electric golf-cart type vehicle were mouthing to a driver of one of the water tank cars, "Spray her" and pointing at the topless girl. So, the guy driving the truck soaks the girl with water. Then, I turned to the two guys in the golf cart, and saw them pointing at me and my fiance (who were on bikes), I started moving immediately away but was not quick enough in telling my fiance and he got partially sprayed. He proceeded to flip them off, and of course this ruined our afternoon. The people in the parade were yelling out to the women, "Show us your tits." I was so disgusted by this whole event.

While riding on an art car, a man sitting across from me made lewd gestures with his tongue to me.

While sitting at the front table of my theme camp, some guy came up to me. He was completely respectable when my fiance was sitting next to me. However when my fiance got up to leave, the guy became a complete pig. He made lewd comments, told me his camp needed a maid and that if I go with him to it that they will give me anything I want and need.

etc, etc.. There were countless other things I witnessed.

I just think that a lot of men cross boundaries at BM. They seem to think because it's BM you can do/say whatever you feel. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty open to a lot of things. If I was seeking a guy or wanted to participate with a couple, I would go to the swingers camp. I do not want to be approached by someone telling me crude comments, I will seek it out myself if I want it.

Another thing I noticed is all the sexuality seems to revolve around women... While waiting for the start of a circus-type performance, we have young women scantily clad doing very sexually charged moves... There were countless dance clubs where women were dancing naked or provocatively behind sheets (so you just saw a silhouette), naked women on stripper poles, etc. I just feel like there is still the objectification of women out there. Why can't there be young men doing these performances? I don't want men to be objectified either, but if there going to do it to women only at BM, it's kind of tiresome. Maybe I just didn't see them...

I know this post must sound completely lame. I just think that sex-wise BM is not much different from out in the "real world." Women are still gawked at and treated like sexual objects only.

It is just really frustrating to me. The less clothes I wore, the more I was treated like a piece of meat. Previous years I had worn tank tops and this year I graduated to bikini tops. I had been thinking eventually I might go topless, but now I'm completely put off and do not think I ever will.

I know this was a long and boring rant. But, this negative part of BM for me is so big, that I'm considering not going back...

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_tears_
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Post by _tears_ » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:06 pm

Nothing lame, wrong or dull about this post.

I haven't attended burning man since 2004 but as a women and I understand your views. While I recall very little problems myself when I attended (although i did have a few) it wasn't enough to bum out my experience.

I'm sorry you feel as if it is just like the real world.

Better Luck Next Time.

And try and keep an open mind for future years, don't allow this to create your experience the next time you attend.

-tears-
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Tears 2003, 2004
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The Ties That Bind Me Hold My Soul
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itsthedavidshow
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Flip side

Post by itsthedavidshow » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:34 pm

I think this post is very valid, and I witnessed plenty at the event this year to be embarassed as a community about. HOWEVER, can we also recognize for every 1 complaint, there are probably about 10 to 20 GOOD interactions between men and women? Probably a whole lot more.

I always tell newcomers that burners are an excellent self-policing community. For instance, I had a friend dancing at Opulent Temple one morning as a drunken lecherous jerk was lurching around, trying to get too close to girls who were not the least bit into it. Another dancing man stepped over, walked the guy away, and had a long talk with him about leaving girls alone. Kudos to that gentleman. Even better, he wasn't expecting any favors after helping out -- he just went back to dancing and enjoying himself.

To all the jerks who made women uncomfortable: get a clue. To all those who went out of their way to help when help was needed: THANK YOU.

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olivia
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Post by olivia » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:23 pm

There are a lot of people out there who use new agey touchy-feelyness as an excuse for sexual harassment. And then there are those who just do it without apology.

The cops are out on the playa to bust us for drugs and having consensual sex in public. I propose we put them to work in a way that serves us better: complain to them about sexual harassment when it occurs and make sure they follow up.

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Schwa
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Post by Schwa » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:02 pm

yeah the creep factor was a downer again this year... and it gets old trying to have the same conversation about respect with these assholes... after this year i'm definately in the camera ban camp...

missy
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Post by missy » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:13 pm

I got nothing but love and respect from the men at burning men when I had my breasts bare. I was asked permission to photograph or touch. Of course people looked at my breasts they were part of the costume. I at 45 wanted to show them off. The atmosphere at burning man I thought was very safe. If someone annoyed me by not understanding and bothering me I told them to go away.

It was the most empowering time I have ever experienced.

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skygod
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Re: Treatment of Women at BM

Post by skygod » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:27 pm

scorpio80 wrote:They seem to think because it's BM you can do/say whatever you feel.
Well my god that's what BM is all about. I think your outrage is totally misplaced and innapropriate.
Examples:
While getting pancakes at the Sambos down the street from 2:30 the "waitress" was a gay guy in a Hooters costume handing out butter and asking me "Can I lube you up?"
As long as noone is grabbing you you have no reason to be upset, it's all part of the show. If harassment becomes physical then there is no mercy on the perpetrators. But to react to verbal harassment in this manner is not justified.
Don't you understand that it's not just women that are harassed, it's everybody? Because the BM world is a different world. Enjoy it or get out of the way IMO.
"It will seem difficult in the beginning. But everything seems difficult in the beginning."- Musashi

blackrockcitydreams
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Women at the Burn

Post by blackrockcitydreams » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:04 pm

I agree. More naked men please!!!
You must be some kinda yummy and or, you are so sweet, they feel like they can say anything.( Not balming you) I'm lucky..I've never been asked to show my tits etc..and quite honestly I am a Double D cup,,my boobs are huge and annoying- I've received my share of lewd gestures from obvious yahoos and a poke in the leg with something firm. But I give off a very strong don't touch or I will fuxck with you vibe. I would love to be more comfy but no way am I going topless for the very reason you complain about ( that and I might trip someone). I have actually had to walk gals back to their camp because they were fearful of being bugged.
I think in part because so many people are loose ( thank God) people judge the minorities actions as a whole for the group. I agree you go at your own risk you have to accept that a 6 ft tall Santa is going to hurl on you- or you are going to be offered sex. On the other hand I do think its not right if you have not warrented it. The problem is the asses who are doing it.. Thanks to the commercializing of the Burn you can expect more. Now that the Burn was broadcast on fucking TV, even More idiots will know about it..
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Eric
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Re: Treatment of Women at BM

Post by Eric » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:12 pm

There were a lot more newbies this year, and as the event grows more of the "real world" becomes part of BRC, sad as it may be.

We had one woman in our camp get disgusted by the behavior of men she saw at Critical Tits- so much so she left, while another one never had a problem at all. I think once you've had a bad experience you tend to notice more of that type of behavior, which will color your reactions to other instances. None of this invalidates what you felt out there, and I don't think there's an easy solution to the issue.

One note, however:
scorpio80 wrote:Another thing I noticed is all the sexuality seems to revolve around women... <snip> Why can't there be young men doing these performances? I don't want men to be objectified either, but if there going to do it to women only at BM, it's kind of tiresome. Maybe I just didn't see them...
There were boys doing performances- trust me. I saw quite a few, which made me very happy. While there were way more women doing it, there were boys. And more power to them!
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s5
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Post by s5 » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:25 pm

I hope Critical Tits doesn't come back. The event no longer seems positive. All the women I know either don't go because they know it's going to be creepy, or they tried to go but came back with their tops back on, or did it anyway and regretted it.

And I don't think there's any solution other than ending it. Pervy lechers with cameras can buy a ticket just like anyone else can. Who knows, maybe canceling the event permanently will send a message that if you creep women out, they're going to run far away from you.

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Post by HughMungus » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:51 pm

A jerk is a jerk no matter where they are and I think Burning Man brings some of them out of the woodwork.

That said, if you want this kind of bullshit to stop, say something to whoever is saying or doing something wrong. Otherwise, you're giving them tacit approval. Even if they don't change, you've done what you can (and maybe if enough people did that, they would change). I told the virgin I did a rideshare with that, "If someone does or says something inappropriate, annoying or whatever, tell them."

You're a three-year veteran; it's time to start making it what you think it should be.
It's what you make it.

ubu
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Post by ubu » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:03 am

I agree with Hugh. I told numerous yahoos to stop taking pictures without consent. Only one yahoo had the temerity to argue with me the night of the burn, and whilst I was telling him that I did not care about him one way or the other but about his actions (he missed the fine distinction and kept trying to get me to say that I cared about him (poor fool)), some frat boys tried to tell me to "chill out." I laughed real hard at that. Chill out? at Burning Man?

We do not need more cops nor even more BRC Rangers.
I have never once asked for their assistance and have negotiated all issues myself or with others, including the turning off of obnoxious sound systems.

Let people know when they are being inappropriate, as early as you can, before issues escalate. It might just work.
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Post by transgirl » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:03 am

I was more bothered by how many women seemed to ONLY express themselves sexually. The vibe I caught from a lot of women was not the "I want to be naked and comfortable and free" feeling, but the "I want to be naked as an expression of my worth in terms of sex".

That's just the vibe I got. I DID get the "I want to be naked and comfy/free" vibe from some women, but like i said the majority seemed to be sex focused.

When women start to see their sexuality as their only way of expressing themselves, the whole scene changes. I saw a lot of men focused on engineering/mechanic art projects, and other non sexually-based art, but a lot of the women I saw were focused on the "I'm skinny and hot and this is my art" mentality. It goes both ways.

Women should be able to walk naked at Burning Man without fear and harrassment, I'd agree with that. But when so many women become more focused on being naked than participating in other ways, it WILL draw the wrong crowd/vibe.

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Post by missy » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:13 am

I think transgirl is right. My breast were bare for me. I wanted to use them as part of my costume. To show that 45 year old droopy saggy strech marked breast can be beautiful also. So I painted and decorated them and made a new bra. I felt alive and beautiful and everywhere I went I got a great reception. If there was any problem or tension, I little laughter went a long way. Burning Man was very liberating for me, it made me feel powerful.

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Post by joya » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:14 pm

transgirl wrote:I was more bothered by how many women seemed to ONLY express themselves sexually. The vibe I caught from a lot of women was not the "I want to be naked and comfortable and free" feeling, but the "I want to be naked as an expression of my worth in terms of sex".
Great point, and I agree.

As far as my experience: This was my second burn. My first year (04) I romped around wearing only shorts and was extremely comfortable. This year, however, I barely went topless at all. The vibe WAS different. I definitely noticed that. Especially the whole new-agey touchy-feely-thing as someone mentioned above. It seemed like that "one love" thing was being manipulated as a tool to cop a feel or get down a woman's pants. But the reality is and remains that it's all in the energy -- what you put out and what is drawn to you.

Just because some of us women perceived a spike in the "creepiness" factor this year, doesn't mean it's here to stay. It's up to each one of us individually to take responsibility for our actions, reactions and emotions. It's one thing to acknowledge & recognize a certain vibe, it's another thing to focus on it, feed into it, and give it power.

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Post by scorpio80 » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:26 pm

Thank you for all your responses. It is nice to see that I wasn't the only one who noticed the creepiness factor. I think a big thing for me is that I'm generally pretty shy and reserved, so I find it difficult to do more then just give a dirty look or walk a way from a guy when I feel like they've crossed boundaries.

I definitely noticed that it got worse as the week went on. I had a few encounters from Saturday through Wednesday, but it seemed to get a lot worse on Thursday...

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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:23 pm

Has anyone on here attended a B.E.D. class? Eplaya Bar Camp was part of B.E.D. this year (Bureau of Erotic Discussion ??) ((I'm at work so I don't have cites /accurate names on hand)). I attended one of their classes and I came away inspired and it was very educational. It specifically addresses handling interactions of a sexual nature on the playa, how to get out of "tense" situations, and how to try and address predators and other creeps out there. It's not a cure all but the information they present could make a real difference in situational awareness....

Also I know of a camp where a woman got into a situation that was very uncomfortable. Tiptoeing carefully through a minefield here the person that made the woman uncomfortable was asked to leave and complied. But there was some residual nervousness that took time to go away and it was aggravated by the flow of strangers in and out of the camp at night. And that leads to my next point. Perhaps it's time to look at camp layouts and configurations...and I'm going to eat my words...perhaps some kind of small fencing is in order. Also maybe it's time to move beyond lighting bikes and ourselves and working on some creative general camp lighting....or overall ambient lighting. The idea being lets "secure" our camps from pass through traffic in private areas, use solar lighting to illuminate dark spots and prevent perps from having peep spots back in the shadows, and raise the level of awareness so that camp security becomes everyone's issue just like moop and portapotty awareness have.

Any thoughts?
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Post by missy » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:33 pm

:roll: I don't want to make burning man into a brightly lighted WalMart parking lot. The darkness and stars are part of the charm. I think the best thing women can do is make some friends. Use the buddy system.
Get to know someone a little before you head out alone with them.
If someone is bothering you ask for help!!! Many gallant knights will rise to your service. Take charge and don't let some bozo with a foul mouth ruin your good time.

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Post by Kinetic IV » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:49 pm

I don't want the place lit up like Mile High Stadium in Denver on Monday Night either. I had a small telescope with me this year, believe me I understand. But a little more ground level, low power, shielded ambient lighting might not be a bad thing. It could also help address the problem of rebar injuries too.

Also the buddy system and the use of your deep voice to get attention is another thing B.E.D. covers in their classes. One idea is not enough for this...it's going to take different approaches to make for the best answer.
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Post by PlayaPetal » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:59 pm

I think transgirl is right. My breast were bare for me. I wanted to use them as part of my costume. To show that 45 year old droopy saggy strech marked breast can be beautiful also. So I painted and decorated them and made a new bra. I felt alive and beautiful and everywhere I went I got a great reception. If there was any problem or tension, I little laughter went a long way. Burning Man was very liberating for me, it made me feel powerful.
Wow - I am all over the place with this topic. Yes - I had my fair share of creepy dudes checking me out, but I just moved away and did my own thing - for me this year it was a big deal to bare a little more skin than I have in the past - as a way of feeling good about my "new" body - and it was nice to be appreciated for all the hard work I have put into looking and feeling better (FOR ME) - but just like in the default world, there will always be creepy people out there and at BRC...
Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.

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it aint all that

Post by blackrockcitydreams » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:00 pm

Scorp

I have to agree with trans there are those who take exhabition as their worth or fuck thier cool factor . Iposted eons ago about "shutterbugs" in 03 - or something..about how pissed off I was at the tourists clearly making videos for resale.. some Japenese guy dressed wrong- had a brand new big scooter with no sticker ripping around as fast as he could- then hiding and sneaking around taking pictures very sneakily- at one point another tourist was "spotting" for him.. I got a bunch of responses like ..we love being naked and having men get boners etc..
I got him good though- I followed him one day- and got in front of every nude girl he was trying to snap and flipped him my favorite finger..
he was hiding on the Esplanade by Carp camp taping 3 people" enjoying each others company"- they were gald I ran up and told them what was happening,, and screamed at him till he ran off dazed
Truely hun- you have a right to your feelings- and if you don't tell those guys to fuck off- they are going to do it to someone it could hurt terribly.
Stop the stupidness of these guys ! You deserve better!

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Post by kukulcan » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:59 pm

Scorpio, i'm sorry you ran into such bullshit this year. try not to let it get you down, though. a lot of attitude will go a long way, and i would recommend you go to a BED workshop (as should my girl, next year).

my girlfriend got involved in quite a few shitty situations this year
she has a problem standing up for herself until someone crosses the line from heavy harassment into assault.

-at Uchronia (aka the Belgian Waffle), some guy who was completely tripped out started dancing with her. he seemed nice at first, and gestured to her to move away from the loud music (ostensibly to chat a bit)... so they chatted for a second, he tried to convince her to run off with him and ditch me because "it's Burning Man!" she politely declined, and he proceeded to grab her and shove his tongue down her throat, at which point she took off. unfortunately she lost me in the crowd for probably and hour, and i couldn't find the guy afterward.

-another guy walked around acting all super nice, offering massages to girls after telling them he was a "registered massage therapist." one of the first things he asked both my girlfriend, and my lady friend who was accompanying us, was "is this your boyfriend?", gesturing towards me. shortly after that he would ramp into this absolutely absurd NLP seduction routine; eliciting values, pacing and leading, not to mention the already-present kinesthetic crap going on. i assumed he was going to try and hold some normal conversation, but after about two minutes of this, i had to call him on his crap. in the cheesiest voice i could manage, i asked, "what is this, NLP?" to which he responded "what's NLP?". yeah fucking right, guy. about 30 seconds later, he walked off.

-after the burn on Saturday night, we stayed up til sunrise and stopped by Entheon Village to check out the artwork. i went from one of the little white domes into the other, and she was lagging behind a couple minutes as she put on her shoes. during that time, some guy came and sat next to her while she tied her shoes. he started talking to her, and before she left, she gave him a light hug and was about to be on her way when he grabbed her, and started kissing all over her neck. she ran up to me, freaking out. she was reluctant for me to track him down, but i insisted. a couple minutes later, the guy walked out from behind one of the domes, and i asked her if it was the guy. needless to say, i was pissed. more numerous, but smaller things had happened in between this and the incident at Uchronia which left me with the urge to pound this guy's teeth into the back of his skull. i threw my bag down and rolled up my sleeves, and he started apologizing to me. i told him he needed to have some fucking respect for women and ASK before he starts trying to kiss or touch them, and that it wasn't ME he needed to apologize to, and took him to apologize to my girlfriend. he apologized profusely, and i led him out of Entheon Village.

-after leaving Entheon Village, we stopped by the porta potties, which was literally about 100 feet from our camp. i jokingly told her "don't get molested on the way home!" sure enough, some guy walks by, she shoots him a casual "nice jacket," because hey, he had a nice big, fuzzy, bright jacket on... so he KNEELS DOWN in front of her and apparently starts trying to put his hand up her dress!!!!!!! she promptly walked into the porta potty, at which point he moved on to the next girl standing out front. from that distance, it looked like he was just being a jackass and kneeling down in front of her, so i didn't do anything. if god only knew, my eyes were moving between him and a dome pole laying on the ground a foot away from me.

fucking dirtbags.

next year, i'm bringing a braided wire whip and an axe handle that i can strap to my bag. i'm also going to make little cards that women can hand out to people who are being complete douchebags, explaining that women are not little fuck dolls, and on the back it will say "come to (camp coordinates) for a gift/beatdown."
the fiber of the thread of the same fabric.

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transgirl has it right

Post by cowgirl » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:42 pm

"I was more bothered by how many women seemed to ONLY express themselves sexually. The vibe I caught from a lot of women was not the "I want to be naked and comfortable and free" feeling, but the "I want to be naked as an expression of my worth in terms of sex". "

try reading 'female chauvanist pigs'.... this is a societal problem (scuse my awful spelling and grammer this eve)

i was able to ingore the desperate hoochies this year maybe b/c they are such a staple of the event that they look like clowns to me.

there is nothing more unnattractive than a pretty person who is ugly in attitude.

the event needs more flaming lotus girls. not stripper poles. but thats up to us as women and a community at large to change.

i say keep crtical tits parade b/c at least we know the city is emptied of assholes with cameras for a few hours. they are watching the parade! and the rest of us smart chicks can go about our biz doing whatever the hell we want, looking however the hell we want, without their presence.

lurker
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Post by lurker » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:57 am

A relaxation of societal sexual mores--such as exists at Burning Man, often brings an onrush of behaviour that is not always as 'enlightened' as many would like.

Confronted with sudden nudity and open sexuality many people, even veterans, find themselves in a state of mental dissarray.

Due to our societal constraints, nudity is equated pretty exclusively to sex. And most people react accordingly at BM when confronted with this. Men--and women--tend to exhibit a heightened sexuality. Even those who claim that their own nudity/sexual display is motivated by 'higher' ideals are functioning within this same atmosphere of heightened sexuality.

This can all work to the good, but, given the enforced juvenality of most of our sexual attitudes, it can result in boorish and gross behavior in all sexes.

But not all of it is the boorish behaviour of the yahoo. Some is the almost prudish behaviour of those who engage in sexual display and are incensed when total strangers do not react in a manner that they find acceptable.

Because part of nudity IS sexual display. This is hard-wired into us. Know that. Accept that we are designed this way. Realise that the relaxation of mores means that we will all be walking around with a heightened sensitivity.

This does not mean that loutish behaviour should be accepted--but it does mean that the definition of that behaviour is somewhat altered.

If one does not wish to be ogled, one should do nothing to encourage ogling(though, to be fair, the truth of this is that the only way to accomplish this is to stay in a dark room, alone. Someone, somewhere is always going to be looking at you).

One must decide what one will accept and act accordingly. And always remember that in a realm of relaxed mores, one is not alone in relaxing.
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Post by Lady V » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:45 pm

Scorpio80 (and others), I'm so sorry to hear this. 2005 was my first burn, and we had a couple of young women in camp (I'm mid-40s) who had similar experiences and were upset by them. Neither returned this year. TheRock and I did, though, and were inspired by last year to create our own theme camp, which honored all aspects of femininity (not just sexual). I didn't think anyone would come to my workshop on femininity, but it was full!!! So many lovely people, men and women, came to it. I focused on that and avoided CT and camps which devoted themselves only to the first level of femininity (sexual), because that's everywhere in the default world. Besides being diminishing, it's getting boring!

I believe people just don't know what the feminine (in both men and women) is anymore. That it is sexual, sure, we know that...but to be feminine also means... being a nurturing, evaluative companion; pursuing meaning through spirit, religion, and nature; and developing wisdom.

If we come back next year, we'll be doing more of the same.

INSANEPOOKIE
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males are males (not the excuse but the reason)

Post by INSANEPOOKIE » Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:06 am

Greetings.

2006 was my first Burning man. I'm a male, if that matters in this case. I did see a fair amount of guys being typical males with comments and such. The majority of the time I was not able to tell if the females were annoyed or bothered with these types of responses made to them simply due to their boobies being out or along those lines. As a general view from me, I assumed most females would shrug off the retarded comments. I do know things wear on you over time and eventually piss you off or invoke rage.

Hmm I'm not sure of the point of my response is other than I saw the same thing going on. If I some how had buddies that did that to randomly females I'd tell them to stop being assfucks.

hotlavalove
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what?

Post by hotlavalove » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:30 pm

Shit - I spent 7 days out there this year and I didn't see this happen even 1 time. As a matter of fact, I always found it amazing how women could walk around how they do at burning man and avoid such behavior. I can't even count the times I was in the same club/street/camp with some hotty with her shirt off or even completly naked and amazed at how she avoided this type of behavior.

I would conclude this shit is still by a long shot the exception rather than the rule. As burning man becomes more known to the general public (it was on CNN this year I heard??), you will get more of these types of dickwads on the playa, especially at the end of the weekend. However, due to the nature of how much it costs to go, how remote it is, and it taking place in a harsh desert, that will ALWAYS weed out most of the lowlifes, no matter how "mainstream" burning man becomes.

blackrockcitydreams
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and what about...

Post by blackrockcitydreams » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:01 pm

I have really enjoyed this topic- seeing so many different viewpoints- and as usual great support in our community..
So I was thinking of this topic again today...and...
What about Burning men to watch out for? Not strangers approaching us on the playa...but the men we know...the men who pose as these open minded responsible artistic guy- who is going to alert women to watch out for bad treatment- verbal abuse-cheating and Liars?
Am

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2_rivers
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Re: Treatment of Women at BM

Post by 2_rivers » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:52 pm

Lame lame lame. I agree. Unforunately this is a culturally pervasive thing, just like general ignorace. Ie. "the Belgium waffle" was actually called Uchronia, meaning something from the future sent into the past to give hope. People from the U.S. just called it "the waffle." I recently watched a very well made documentary on attitudes about female sexuality in this country. In one part social scientists asked 20,000 4th grade students at random wether they thought sexual violence was ever justifiable. %60 of male students responded in the affirmative along with amazingly high %40 of female students!!! When asked under which circumstances this kind of behavior was acceptable, the top two resposes were #1 when the girl dresses "slutty" and #2 when the man spends a lot of money and the woman refuses to "put out." This is what the song "violent pornography" by System of a Down is about.
At about 1:00 am, my second night back in the "real world," my phone rings, and it's my buddy's 15 yo niece, crying and telling me that some guys aren't letting her leave their house. I grabbed a jack handle, jumped in my fuzzy slippers and RAN over as fast as I could. As it turned out, she had already escaped because the guys had already passed out. The man that raped her was 21. I got her away from there as quickly as possible, called a close female friend of mine who's been through it, and she said that she was calling 911, so I did the honors instead, and stayed in the hospital all night with a traumatized little girl, because she didn't feel safe with just her mom, the cops, and all of her little sisters. I hear you loud and clear. I try to buy all females who I am close to mace. Alas, it is an ugly world. :(

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2_rivers
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Post by 2_rivers » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:14 pm

Burningman's cool though!!!! 8)

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