Suggestions from 2007 for 2008

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
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Suggestions from 2007 for 2008

Post by VikingNomad » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 am

Let's face it, the organizers and volunteers did an awesome job overall. Setting up an event of this size is not easy at all. Lots of what they do and have prepared is invisible to most people. For example, when the man was lit early, magically, pumper fire trucks appeared to put him out. And, if you ran across some long deep depressions in the roads around center camp with your bike, that was the power grid trenches that most people don't know are there.

I've voiced some issues in other discussions, as I've seen others doing. It feels good to vent about some things, but unloading a bunch of problems without offering suggestions for solutions simply won't help to build a better community and the experience for us all.

So, if you have any suggestions for how to address problems you came across, please reply to this thread.

Wouldn't it be a great gift to the organizers to help them by offering suggestions and solutions???

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Post by VikingNomad » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:10 am

I have one suggestion to get the ball rolling, and to contribute to what I'm asking for contributions for.

There were a lot of last minute virgin burners who thought they were going to Woodstock or a festival this year. No lights, no supplies, and completely poorly prepared and doing dumbass things. Walking around without water, getting dehydrated day and night, and begging to become speed bumps for bikes.

I suggest that Burning Man should stop selling tickets 15-30 days before it begins. Here's why...

1. It would give virgin burners the chance to read the survival guide and not have so many issues and near accidents. Some of them never saw the survival guide until they were handed one at the gate.

2. It would give virgin burners the chance to get in the spirit of the event which would generate a better experience and less issues

3. It would give DPW a solid number of people to plan for, and not wonder if they need stuff for thousands of last minute arrivals.

4. It would help to reduce the numbers of people overall and make for a more manageable experience with prepared citizens for the conditions of Black Rock City.

5. The understanding of the principles of Burning Man would promote 'leave no trace' and reduce to moop issues that the DPW is facing after this years event.

6. A predictable number of attendees may lower the BLM fees and related support costs of EMS, etc.

Who else has a suggestion??

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bleurose51
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Post by bleurose51 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:54 am

Unfortunately I don't think it would help all that much. What would happen is some enterprising entrepreneur will purchase 500 or 1000 tickets the day before ticket sales end from BRC LLC and then go into business selling those tickets are a REALLY STEEP premium and make a lot of money to boot. The virgins who drop in would still drop in, only now they might not even have the benefit of getting a survival guide at the gate (since they "bought their ticket early") and things wouldn't be any better.

The only reason this doesn't happen now (scalping tickets) is precisely because "the org" still sells tickets up until Friday at the gate for a fee that is close enough to the original fee that there is no real mark-up potential in defaultia. Sure, you can mark-up your private ticket sales $50 or so, but that isn't enough to make it feasible for a large-scale scalper to get into the business. Cutting off gate sales and stopping presales a month in advance would ABSOLUTELY make that happen.

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bleurose51
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Post by bleurose51 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:00 am

Here is a rant. I thought the so-called "reformatted" Playa Guide SUCKED ROCKS! In previous years, the listing of events with descriptions also included the times/dates of the events. By separating the descriptions and times, it made it damn near impossible to find out WHAT event had good hot raw sex in it and then WHEN it was! :-) You had to crawl through the descriptions like you used to, but then you had to crawl through the microscopic schedule typeface (which for a guy as old as me needing reading glasses is a REAL pain in the ass) trying to find the event. And sometimes you couldn't (yes, there were a few errors in there).

If they are going to keep doing this, they need a THIRD listing, one that is just the title and the time but in alphabetical order instead of time order so that all of us pervs can find our sex parties in the description listing and then easily find out when the event is. And while they are at it, how about including the theme camp location in the guide too. Once you found out WHAT theme camp was doing an event, you had to go to the THEME CAMP MAP and find the location. In this day and age of technology, doing this right should be easy. I'll volunteer!

By the time we figured out where the Beaver Eating Contest was and when, it was long over. Sigh...

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Post by zorro sings » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:29 am

Yes,we cannot believe no thread has been devoted yet to the debacle that was this years WWW guide.In years past the most nerve wracking portion of set up was checking the WWW guide for ommissions and screw ups.Did not matter this year as so bad.Cannot count the number of people who stopped by asking when an event was taking place only to find out they missed it.In fact the thought has crossed my mind that this was an intentional act to pay back all of us who complained in the past.Kind of along the lines of the puzzlingly defensive"greeting signs" this year.Bottom line was that theme camps get treated like dogs with only winners being Esplanade dance camps and corporate booths at The Man.
Be careful. You can spend all your money in there..............................Oriental Visitor

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Post by fromMA » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:08 am

Ban the damn gas powered motor scooters!!!!!

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Teo del Fuego
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:21 am

Thingsa to change for next year:

1. politicized themes,
2. gas powered scooters
3. whoever threw together the Who What Where Guide
4. whoever designed the Pavillion

Things to praise forever:

1. the massive amounts of volunteers who did an incredible job with the infrastructure and bureaucratic wranglings!

2. The artists, who were absolutely stellar this year

3. Rangers, DPW, Center Camp, Exodus, Greeters, Porta-pottie people

4. Albino Band

5. the artist who did the children blocks

6. The artist who did the strobe-lit monkeys

7. Steampunk Crew

8. Big Rig Jig crew

9. and a thousand others!

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Post by Smudge » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:35 pm

something to add for large congregations/burns: Bike Perimeter and Art car perimeter.
Make some plywood cutouts in the shape of various looking bicycles and attach them to something similar to a lamplighter spire. Place these 100/200 feet from the person burn perimeter.
This way we #1 won't be tripping over bicycles on the most packed parts of the person perimeter, #2 have a 'fixed' landmark to reference where you parked your bike, #3 don't have bicycles chained to wooden pieces of art poised to be thrown into the fire.
#1 being the most important with safe egress both to and from a large fire.
Plant these 2d bike cutouts rotated 90* from the center for visibility, a day or so before a burn and people can 'get the picture' without having our black rock cops hollering via megaphones to not cross this line.
I remember hearing both at the Belgian Waffle burn and at Crude Awakening's amazing incineration that there was considerable concern that people would either want or NEED to run away from the oncomming flames and that scattered bicycles could provide a significant safety hazard for the fleeing masses.

There may have been an art car perimeter, but with the MASSIVE number of people we are having now, there were many instances where the art cars were close enough that it made it difficult for people to get a view.

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Post by Clar-i-ty » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:09 pm

Make a required online quiz on the survival guide. The questions should be randomized so there's no key. A confirmation code should be printed with the person's name that must be presented with ID prior to receiving tickets.

Since tickets are considered a "revocable license" there should be a test to receive that license.

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dinks
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Post by dinks » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:36 pm

"3. whoever threw together the Who What Where Guide "

I agree 100%, that guide was awful.

I am all for banning any 2-stroke gas powered motor on the playa, that should curb the scooter problem.

I would also like to see more porta's on the playa. Finding one at night seemed to be a huge issue.

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Post by Xavier » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:57 pm

I used the potties a lot this year, and they were surprisingly well maintained and almost always had TP in them.

People were surprisingly ignorant of the potty locations, it's like some big secret but obvious to the observant. They all have blue and green lights flashing over them and can be spotted from as far as the fence unless there were 50 art cars around them.


The who what when where guide was total ass, and didn't solve the basic functional problem, that even if you know the Mutaytor show is 10:30 at Tsunami Stage, where the hell is the Tsunami Stage? Why, it's on another piece of paper we printed for you!

I don't mind the "cliff's notes index version" of times, but the second reference part should be the same as previous years, by date/time instead of alphabetized.

Didn't really notice/have an issue with the scooters, what pissed me off was the undecorated golf carts driven by tourists that weren't getting busted.

THE THREE BIG ISSUES -
1) Newbs wandering around the A through F streets (generally assigned to theme camps) looking for a place to park, as late as Friday. Why weren't the new arrivals just told to stick to the outer rim, as it was literally the only block open (I heard they added a new street, we were so full!)

2) Newbs without lights at night.

3) Newbs blatantly MOOPing.

- I am feeling a little punchy about this, and it remains to be seen if I can stay pissed off enough about this to complete, but as it's my seventh burn this year I'd like to build an art car with a partial focus on picking up MOOP and putting it into a big plexiglass cube that's carried on the car. You help pick up some MOOP, I give you a ride. Maybe make a MOOP ziggurat out of plexiglass cubes.
I think educating new arrivals with radio and the survival guide isn't working, and actually getting them into the physical act of picking it up might be worth trying.

As for lights, I think if we set the newbs on fire that should solve that problem.
:twisted:


Also, there should be two survival guides. One is the prep guide for BEFORE you leave for Burning man, and the other is the one you get at the gate, that reinforces the rules. The full survival guide is a paper waste if you're handing it out at the gate. Let's see... I've arrived at Burning Man and the guide is telling me: How to get to Burning Man, and what I should pack.

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Post by Smudge » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:09 pm

Clar-i-ty wrote:Make a required online quiz on the survival guide. The questions should be randomized so there's no key. A confirmation code should be printed with the person's name that must be presented with ID prior to receiving tickets.

Since tickets are considered a "revocable license" there should be a test to receive that license.

make the quiz part of acquiring your ticket.
As is, radical self responsibility is not a pre requirement for going, merely shelling out the $ (consumerism). Filling out a quiz or questionaire would also cut the scalpers. Personally I saw two tickets originally purchased at $125 and $150 that were sold for $250-300ish. I had my bid for $275 turned down and so had the privelige of waiting in the hour long will call line with an amazing number of virgins.

Questions for the brc quiz:
How many pounds or kilograms of H20 do YOU plan to haul to Black Rock City per person for yourself and/or your campmates?
How many trashbags of post-cleanup moop do you expect to haul away after breaking camp?
If your camp is leaving during night hours, what are your plans for being able to collect microtrash such as thread, splinter, rice etc from the playa?

more suggestions please.

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bleurose51
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Post by bleurose51 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:23 pm

On the subject of golf carts, I saw several undecorated carts but when I approached them, learned that they were for disabled people. I think we should be careful before we jump to conclusions about those carts, they may be correctly licensed by the DMV if the users are handicapped. As far as I can see from the webpage on non-art-cars, any vehicle is legally okay to be licensed for disabled people except for big RVs. Golf carts are quite common for this (my father who is 90 would need one if he ever went to Burning Man :-)

The quiz is a cool idea. Can't imagine how it would be enforced though.

And as for scalping tickets, its gonna happen we have to get over it. A friend of mine who had purchased two tickets for $165 each one year and was selling them, ended up selling them for $300 each (which was $25 less than the at-gate price that year). I asked him if he felt it was a "violation" of BM ethics to do this and his reply (which made a lot of sense) was: "If I sell them to someone for $165 each on craigslist, there is at LEAST a 50-50 probability that the person I sell them to will flip them for $300. If that happens, TWO of us get screwed, me and the person who ultimately buys them from the flipper. If I sell them directly, at least only the purchaser gets screwed and I have the peace of mind knowing that the person who bought them is actually going to use them. And they still save money over the at-gate price, plus they GUARANTEE they can get in. Its a win-win. Okay, maybe a neutral-win, but at least its not a loss-loss."

Hate to admit it, but his logic made a lot of sense.

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Post by Lo » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:43 pm

Impose a ticket cap. The Black Rock Desert seems to be nearing capacity to me. At the very least, getting so many people in and out on a two-lane road over the allotted time period will become more and more difficult.

I have to confess not understanding why this hasn't already been done. Is it just ticket scalping? This seems like a lesser evil than many other problems with the population getting too big, but I haven't fully thought through the ramifications of Burning Man selling out. Radical inclusion? I am very much in favor of that principle, but it's not like every single person on earth could come, at the same time, in the same location, to Burning Man. The line is going to have to be drawn somewhere. Maybe it's just money. Anyway, if anyone knows what the official line is on this, I'd be grateful to have more info.

And, yes, the WWW was a travesty.

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Post by run_w_xcors » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:49 pm

1. Make Burning Man a not-for-profit. This doesn't mean people can't get paid for their efforts. There are people who do this full time and should be paid for putting the event together. The artists and theme camps are what the people come to see and should be compensated (or at least given free passes). Nobody comes to see Larry Harvey or at least I hope not after having seen him speak at a small event (thanks for the idea Larry, but you're still whacky).

2. Give MOOP bag fast passes for Exodus. Turn in a MOOP bag on the way out and get into a special line. If you make MOOP art, you get out even faster. No MOOP bag, go to the back of the line. (I actually consider MOOP walkers BM's free trash service, and if they're making a profit while you're picking up trash for yahoos, well, you do the math).

3. Put the following warning signs on entrance:

-Untagged video cameras are subject to smashing by participants. Tagged ones might be as well, it's a jungle out there.
-Leave a beer can or bottle, gain a flame thrower burn!

4. If you have no skill and can contribute nothing but dust on a dance floor, you don't get in. There will be tryouts!
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stickysunset
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Post by stickysunset » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:18 pm

EXPRESS GREETER LINE(S) for non-newbs.

puhleeeeeze....make it so i don't have to wait 40 minutes while newbies get their picture(s) taken in oh-so-many positions by the bell with their camera, and their friend's camera, and their mommy's camera, and their dog's camera and.........you get the idea.

it was killer to be within 5 minutes of HOME and yet, so far away.

just give me the no frills package....."welcome home" + paperwork...and let me GO!!

sunset


izzit august yet?

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stargeezer
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Post by stargeezer » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:32 pm

Tickets, and their resale value seem to be an issue. Why not make the tikets non-transferrable? Let it be known that re-sold tickets will not be honored. Next, stop selling ticket a month in advance of the event. This would insure that everyone would have time to prepare properly, and no last minute spectators would be allowed in. Yes, this new procedure would also cause some headaches, but pick your poison.

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:06 pm

One thing, they should check to see if people have enough water with them along with food before they get into the city. If not, they have to drive back to the first town and get their supplies.

But people will lie

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Post by VikingNomad » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:23 pm

Ticket sales could be controlled to prevent scalping. Simple rules like no more than 4 tickets per address, printing names on them (write in names in retail), making them non-transferrable, etc.

I love the idea of an express line for those who do moop pickup. I would have rather spent two hours picking up moop than wasting an hour in line. It would need to be managed a little. Otherwise, someone would declare their own garbage moop and fill up a bag. Maybe something like signing up for 2 hours of moop pickup during the week gets you an express exodus pass, and you go do moop pickup with a group of DPW folks or Black Rock Rangers who vouch for your moop and hand out the passes. It would be a fun event to and yet another way to chat with fellow burners while helping the community.

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Post by Clar-i-ty » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:16 am

[quote="Smudge"][quote="Clar-i-ty"]Make a required online quiz on the survival guide. The questions should be randomized so there's no key. A confirmation code should be printed with the person's name that must be presented with ID prior to receiving tickets.

Since tickets are considered a "revocable license" there should be a test to receive that license.[/quote]


make the quiz part of acquiring your ticket.
As is, radical self responsibility is not a pre requirement for going, merely shelling out the $ (consumerism). Filling out a quiz or questionaire would also cut the scalpers. Personally I saw two tickets originally purchased at $125 and $150 that were sold for $250-300ish. I had my bid for $275 turned down and so had the privelige of waiting in the hour long will call line with an amazing number of virgins.

Questions for the brc quiz:
How many pounds or kilograms of H20 do YOU plan to haul to Black Rock City per person for yourself and/or your campmates?
How many trashbags of post-cleanup moop do you expect to haul away after breaking camp?
If your camp is leaving during night hours, what are your plans for being able to collect microtrash such as thread, splinter, rice etc from the playa?

more suggestions please.[/quote]

What do you do in a white out?
A: Find shelter, sit down, make new friends.

What are the three things you should always have?
A: Water, Goggles, Face Mask

How do you keep your feet from cracking?
A: Put on lotion and wear socks dumbass!

What accessories should you bring with your bike?
A: Bike repair kit, air pump, innertube, lock and cable, light or head lamp

True or False: A day old glow light is enough to be seen on the playa?

A: False

True or False: Gifts can be contributions to the event or sharing things that you have and others need or appreciate.
A: True

I'm starting a new thread for this. I could go on for hours and I'm sure others could as well.

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Post by VikingNomad » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:26 am

Awesome suggestions! I hope we can forward this thread to the organizers as a list of great ideas.

I had my first burn in the early 90's, and what Clar-i-ty suggests is actually the revival of an old and good practice. On my first burn there were two greeters and two burning bails of hey by the roadside. Before we were allowed in we were asked for our tickets and then quizzed on how much water we needed, and essential items in the survival guide before they would tell us where it was. It was way out in the playa, and not visible from the road. I'm only in my 30's, so don't be sending me Geritol and Depends!

I like the suggestions for making exodus easier too. I totally understand why it's so controlled. The last year you were able to just take off across the playa the cars generated a dust storm and was really dangerous to drive in. But, 3-5 hours to exit is nuts too. We need to find suggestions for better ways. The delay also causes people to drive like idiots to get to flights or make up time on the route out, causing several car accidents.

I'm seeing some good and easy ways to make 2008 even better!

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Hamandegger
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Real recycling

Post by Hamandegger » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 am

How about a real recycling center that accepts paper, plastic and glass instead of just the profitable aluminum? Ideally a participant could return home with one garbage bag full of organic waste for the compost pile.

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Playa Guide Problem

Post by sdmay44 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:22 am

I do hope the organizers get the word on the terrible layout of the guide this year. I really do not understand the reason for the change. It did not save any paper and it was insanely user-UNFRIENDLY.

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Post by Captain Goddammit » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:52 am

I love the moop-bag express lane exit idea, except that you could just show some of your own trash bags as "moop".

I'd like taller lights identifying the porta potties out on the playa. I did notice the blue and green lights but found them impossible to spot amid everything else.
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Post by SparkleButt » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:22 pm

I'll stand up as a first-timer here, so I haven't got a lot of experience to back up my impressions. I've heard and read all the complaints and observations about spectators and the weekend party crowd, but tried to hold back judgement and witness for myself. Well, it was just as obvious as people said it was how much the atmosphere changed on Friday-ish. I was camped at 6:30 and Kelp Forest so we watched cars drive in, and in, and in...all weekend! It never stopped. It was actually pretty busy in the afternoon and evening mere hours before the burn.

Anyhow, I'm sure the idea has been proposed before, but why can't they just have an entry deadline? That is, closing the gate at a certain time during the week, say Wednesday night? Anyone can still buy a ticket and stay as long or as short a time as they want provided they arrive by a certain point. Seems an easy way to cut down on weekend warriors, help encourage community, and reinforce the idea of this event being a commitment of time and energy in exchange for the reward of helping create something.

I know they stop selling tickets at some point right near the end, but it felt there were still tons of people who planned just enough to get tickets in advance but still couldn't be bothered to show up for anything but the big ass spectacles.

I also LOVE the idea of a MOOP express lane. We scoured our camp for an hour looking for MOOP and then sat in line to get out for *five freaking hours*. ARGH.

Which leads me to another suggestion: The BMIR guy was endlessly praising the Exodus crew, and I'm sure they were doing a great job for the left two lanes on Monday who were leaving in 2 hours, but the poor suckers in the right three lanes (ahem) were stuck for 4-5 hours. There wasn't a single thing I would even consider complaining about all week as far as the volunteers and organizers are concerned except that. I'm trying not to be bitter, but when a neighboring camp passed us just as we were about the get out, a camp who hadn't packed as much as a lawn chair when we were rolling out (were parked in said lawn chairs drinking beers, in fact), I just about snapped.

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Post by CaptainObvious » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:56 pm

Smudge wrote:Questions for the brc quiz:
How many pounds or kilograms of H20 do YOU plan to haul to Black Rock City per person for yourself and/or your campmates?
How many trashbags of post-cleanup moop do you expect to haul away after breaking camp?
If your camp is leaving during night hours, what are your plans for being able to collect microtrash such as thread, splinter, rice etc from the playa?

more suggestions please.
If an overpacked alpaqua leaves SF on the Metro rail planning on connections to Sacramento, how many Butterfingers should be packed in relation to the number of gallons of blue paint he is carrying before he is picked up in front of Kroger's for his rideshare?
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Post by honeyfire » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:16 pm

^^^^ 42
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

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Post by Mr_Understanding » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:01 pm

The idea of having an entry deadline sounds good from the tourist aspect, but the reality is that some people just get screwed on vacation time and can't come spend the week.

My friend Anna camped with us this year. She was a 4-time burner and couldn't get up there any earlier than Friday morning. She was as bummed as anyone would have been that she couldn't come up sooner, but I'd hate to have seen her locked out of the event completely just because a bunch of idiots can't get their shit together.

Along the lines of keeping out the hardcore tourists, though, what if every newbie had to be sponsored by a veteran burner? Just like needing a local sponsor for a visa into foreign country. I just saw so many people up there this year who weren't only ignorant of survival skills, but Burning Man culture, I became concered that if the rate of virgins coming into each burn outpaced the ability of BRC citizens to really bring them up to speed on how things should work at the event, then we'll lose the spirit of BRC to the hoards that bring up their outlander ethos.

Ask yourself how many of us were educated by people we knew or adopted us about the various reasons a leave-no-trace attitude was essential? How many of us came back up to give because we'd had so much given to us our first year? That we created a friendly atmosphere of home because so many did that for us?

Even the first year I came up when I'd done so much research myself, I still tapped a couple people I knew that had been before for advice. These were the people that informed me the REASONS for MOOP removal -- not just that it needed to be done. (Such reasons as the BLM audit, or the dune formation on the playa from carpet fibers were things that made me take it more seriously than just a desire by event organizers to keep things clean.)

I know it would be complicated, but it could be the biggest single beneficial control we could institute.
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dinks
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Post by dinks » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:15 pm

[quote="Lo"]Impose a ticket cap. The Black Rock Desert seems to be nearing capacity to me. At the very least, getting so many people in and out on a two-lane road over the allotted time period will become more and more difficult.

I have to confess not understanding why this hasn't already been done. Is it just ticket scalping? This seems like a lesser evil than many other problems with the population getting too big, but I haven't fully thought through the ramifications of Burning Man selling out. Radical inclusion? I am very much in favor of that principle, but it's not like every single person on earth could come, at the same time, in the same location, to Burning Man. The line is going to have to be drawn somewhere. Maybe it's just money. Anyway, if anyone knows what the official line is on this, I'd be grateful to have more info.

And, yes, the WWW was a travesty.[/quote]


Cap the tickets at 40k or something, or at least stop selling them a month in advance. Anyone who decides to go to burning man a few days prior is not going to be prepared anyways.

I really really think we should push for the ticket cap. On wednesday of the burn around 3:00pm my camp had issues finding a good spot and by thursday they had to open up a new area.

Just another random thought, what would burningman look like if they banned RV's?

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Post by bleurose51 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:23 pm

I guess this is just the pains of growth. I don't see any rational way to deal with it. What worked in a society of 10,000 works very differently in a society of 40,000. It isn't surprising that there needs to be more rules, better enforcement, etc.

Most of the ideas suggested are unworkable. You can't really require newbies to have a sponsor. How do you even know who is a newbie? "Hey George, you aren't in our database from past events!" "Well of course not, Harve, I got my ticket for the past three years by going on craigslist and buying it from some person who had a ticket for sale. So I'm NOT a newbie." What do you say to that? Show us your past schwag? LOL

I agree that closing the door early, while it certainly would help, would also hurt well-intentioned people who know what they need to do and simply can't get the time off work. I managed to get to the Playa early Thursday morning (6 AM) this year, but several times in the past I didn't pull in until Friday morning, and would have been kept out by the proposed rule. Arrgghhh.

The quiz seems like a reasonable screening mechanism, but people can fake it, cheat, etc. And if they are going to do that, they would flaunt the rules anyway.

Ultimately, its all about the very core of the event... self-reliance. You have to be able to deal with not only the good stuff, but the bad stuff as well and be able to do so in a reasonably confident manner.

We had a newbie on either side of our camp this year. Both were single men traveling alone. One was from London and one from Chicago. Both just decided to "drop in" on BM at the last minute (well, about 2-3 weeks before Labor Day, which in my mind for a newbie, is clearly the "last minute" - my wife and I planned our first visit for almost 4 months). Amazingly, they both did well, albeit a little short on food. They had plenty of water, understood MOOP for the most part, and except for the fact that only one had a bike, were pretty prepared. I expect they will both come back.

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