Suggestions from 2007 for 2008

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
sun4all
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:43 pm

Post by sun4all » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:49 am

First, the BMORG is soliciting BM 2007 feedback, send your comments to:

[email protected]

On the RV topic: Our camp for the past four years at Burning Man has been this: A shade structure, a tent for storage, two small tables, and a mini-van to sleep/hang out in. This has been a workable setup. However, we are very involved in BM art and find that most of our time and energy is used in keeping up camp. We also want to be able to work on art projects at camp which is hard to do in a min-van. In addition, our aging bodies are no longer cooperating with the cramped sleeping conditions in the min-van. Therefore, we have decided to go the RV route. We go to Burning Man for the art and to be involved with the art. Having an RV means that we'll get to spend more time and energy PARTICIPATING. We certainly don't intend on staying inside the RV all day with the AC running :).

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barnz
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: Manchester, Michgan, USA

Post by barnz » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:41 pm

sun4all wrote: We certainly don't intend on staying inside the RV all day with the AC running :).
Well, someone should. Please be sure to let me know your address next year, and what time you're usually out. :twisted:
~~~~~~~~
known on the Playa (especially Ranger Radios) as HOOPY FROOD.

"A towel … is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." – Douglas Adams

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mars
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:51 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Post by mars » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:43 pm

chickenvogt wrote:someones panties are in a bind! i did say it was not a "popular opinion "and i also said it was "just a thought." i was also looking at the overall population. IMO, "if" RVs were not allowed, it would cutout a large # of yahoos and tourists............again, "just a thought"!
Who said anything about "popular opinion"? I get that it was j"just a thought" and I replied with just some thoughts of my own.
Live as if everyone loves you and thinks you look great. Dance as if no one is watching.

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Greenltdistrict
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: LA

Post by Greenltdistrict » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:11 pm

1. Re-re format the guide

2. NO GO PEDS!!NO "SCOOTERS" or two stroke engines!!! (WTF is that about?!!??)

3. Veteran burner "express" line sounds great!!

4. KEEP THE EXTRA ICE SPOTS!!!! That's right up there with sliced bread!

Johnny One-Spur
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:11 pm
Location: Denver, CO

Post by Johnny One-Spur » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:05 pm

[quote="bleurose51"]

A friend of mine who had purchased two tickets for $165 each one year and was selling them, ended up selling them for $300 each (which was $25 less than the at-gate price that year). I asked him if he felt it was a "violation" of BM ethics to do this and his reply (which made a lot of sense) was: "If I sell them to someone for $165 each on craigslist, there is at LEAST a 50-50 probability that the person I sell them to will flip them for $300. If that happens, TWO of us get screwed, me and the person who ultimately buys them from the flipper."

Um, how does your friend get screwed? He buys them for $165 (plus shipping costs), he sells them for $165 (plus shipping costs). How does he lose? Sorry, this is just rationalization for screwing a fellow Burner!

playafucker
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:38 pm

a this things is always evoovling

Post by playafucker » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:44 pm

HOW ABOUT WE START CALLING MOOP TRASH?

We all want everyone to be as good as "us", but this is not the case. More new people are going to keep coming and MOOP is some weird foreign concept.

PICK UP THAT MOOP

HUH?

PICK UP THAT FUCKING TRASH YOU SHIT FACED ASSHOLE. YOUR FUCKING UP OUR CANVAS.

I have only gone to BM for the last three years. I am curious has the last three days always been a complete disregard of "leave no trace". It disgusts me to get into the game this late and try really hard. To only be disappointed that there is trash fucking everywhere at the end.

It makes me hate humanity. It makes me dislike BM. It makes me think that humans can only behave for four days until all the assholes show up. I am not under the illusion that this is some peace hippy fest. Go fucking crazy worship Satan and listen to awful music and fuck yourself WHATEVER
But cant you just clean up after yourself for at least a WEEK.

nothing was a stronger image than last year getting there on Monday and going out to the waffle that night. It was so serene and beautiful and clean. A pure experience. To only show up there Friday and find bottles and garbage all underneath it. I am all for anarchy's, but that is not anarchy. That is just lazy white trash shit balls. Fuck that. And fuck them for ruining our efforts to create something beautiful.

I think BM should radically stop letting this many people come.

Do you want the artistic novelty of Burning Man
Or a shit rave fest of loser's that don't give a fuck about anything?

PLEASE SOME ONE TELL ME
HAS THE END OF THE WEEK ALWAYS BECOME A LET DOWN OF THE DREAM?

Was there a time when LEAVE NO TRACE ran its course through the whole week?

god, i thought this was about art and expression. Don't let me down Larry.

WHERE ARE YOU LARRY?

oh yeah

less trance music would be nice
:)
I can

honeyfire
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Denver, Co

I can see, but i'm also blind...

Post by honeyfire » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:34 pm

AntiM, re my rideshare page comment:
"Post this down in feature requests, in eplaya feedback. It may do more good there."

Thank you, thank you, thank you!


The weird thing is, now (7:30 pm Sept 21 07) there's a link to the rideshare page stickied to the top of the Share page in the Prep folder.
Was that actually there before and i totally missed it somehow?!?
I'd swear it wasn't there before, but then i did once fail to notice a thirty-foot tree i walked past every day, so how can i tell? *snork*

Well, if it *was* there, i wish other people'd noticed more too. *snork*
if it wasn't, then a thousand thank you's to the stickier. :nod
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

Civil rights: use 'em or lose 'em!

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Remark
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:46 am
Burning Since: 2001
Location: Hoquiam, WA

Post by Remark » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:09 pm

1. Express line for the entrance - I know where I'm camping, no thanks on the bell (how many years has the bell been there, I haven't noticed), I understand the road layout, and hugging a 60 year old dude wearing a diaper is more of a Wednesday thing for me! (I go very early first day to be alone, as strange as that may sound) Some need to decompress after....I need to "compress" before.

2. Keep Ice thing

3. and, of course, no more
lazy white trash shit balls
4. Friday and Saturday Night, I stay very close to home/camp. The event changes flavor those days, I don't like it as much.

5. RVs make great wind blocks for my lil ol' tent

I enjoy going.

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Badger
Posts: 3322
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Badger » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:16 am

3. Veteran burner "express" line sounds great!!
Did I hear 'entitlement?'
Desert dogs drink deep.

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diane o'thirst
Posts: 2092
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:04 pm
Location: Eugene, OR
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RVs

Post by diane o'thirst » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:22 pm

With the advent of biodiesel, the "RVs are bad for the environment" argument is losing water.

And the argument that they shelter their camp-people from the experience isn't the RVs' fault, that's the people. If they want to blow their $350 ticket holed up in their RV, that's their wasted spondulicks. No skin off our noses.

Personally, I have no beef with them. A couple more RV pros:

They contain MOOP. An RV will MOOP less than a from-scratch camp. Which is MOOPier, the RV or the cool-looking and artistic but jerry-rigged camp made of unpeeled willow and bamboo and grass mats?

If you want art, find yourself that much canvas and paint a mural on it, and hang it on the RV's show side.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/245sagf][img]http://tinyurl.com/2bbr28j/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/23753ws][img]http://tinyurl.com/2auqebj/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/m4y82q][img]http://tinyurl.com/l56rdn/.gif[/img][/url]

stellabee
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:00 am

Post by stellabee » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:45 am

:idea: Hows about....since alot of people come just for the burn on Sat...
Hows about not specifying when the Man will burn? Could be any time during the week...perhaps announced a few hours in advance? A thought...

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bradtem
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Location: Silicon Valley
Contact:

Banning RVs -- banning people of lesser physical condition

Post by bradtem » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:22 pm

The reality is a lot of people are in an RV not simply because they can afford it and it's more comfortable. The playa is a harsh place. If you are young and fit it can still wipe you out. If you are older and less fit, it's a different story. I've come in RVs and I've come in a tent, and I can last a lot longer on the playa if I have the facilities of the RV to give me a chance at a recharge.

I realize if you're young and in great condition you may simply not understand this, but it's a reality. If you ban RVs you're going to exclude some people from the playa.

Plus you'll find that pretty much all the burning man senior staff, along with many of the artists who spend extra time on playa are all in RVs.

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robbidobbs
Posts: 2825
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:07 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Pottie Central
Location: LOS of the Pottie doors

Post by robbidobbs » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:31 am

Xavier wrote:I used the potties a lot this year, and they were surprisingly well maintained and almost always had TP in them.

People were surprisingly ignorant of the potty locations, it's like some big secret but obvious to the observant. They all have blue and green lights flashing over them and can be spotted from as far as the fence unless there were 50 art cars around them.
This was the first year that the open-playa pottie-banks were lit, and it was hugely successful. Also, I spend a good deal of my time replenishing the tp between cleanings, and it would be appreciated to have more people willing to restock them, esp at night. I totally can supply the tp and drop it off. This would be a huge community service.

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barnz
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: Manchester, Michgan, USA

Post by barnz » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:02 pm

robbidobbs wrote: This was the first year that the open-playa pottie-banks were lit, and it was hugely successful.
FWIW my group had no idea of the porta-pottie lighting - we didn't know to look for it from a distance and we didn't recognize it once we found the playa banks, either! Was it a specific lighting pattern that we can know to look for in the future? (There's a lot of blinky shit out there in the distance!) :D
~~~~~~~~
known on the Playa (especially Ranger Radios) as HOOPY FROOD.

"A towel … is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." – Douglas Adams

madmatt
Posts: 783
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:28 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by madmatt » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:58 pm

sun4all wrote:First, the BMORG is soliciting BM 2007 feedback, send your comments to:

[email protected]
1. Close the gates Wednesday at midnight. Everyone knows it's the right thing to do. It would cut in half the number of fuckos that cause so many problems (crime, asshole-behavior, frat boy behavior, trash, medical services, law enforcement, and much more). I'd gladly pay $100 more for my ticket. I don't care if there are 45,000 or 100,000 people - it's the quality of the people. Some of the idiots you run into on Friday are just a waste of oxygen!

2. How about this for a theme, even if for just one year: NO THEME! Why can't they just let everyone go at it, unrestrained?

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robbidobbs
Posts: 2825
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:07 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Pottie Central
Location: LOS of the Pottie doors

Post by robbidobbs » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:32 pm

barnz wrote:FWIW my group had no idea of the porta-pottie lighting - we didn't know to look for it from a distance and we didn't recognize it once we found the playa banks, either! Was it a specific lighting pattern that we can know to look for in the future? (There's a lot of blinky shit out there in the distance!) :D
The DPW manager that set them up likes the green blinkies, I like the blue blinkies. There's one 20' post with a light on top for each side of the bank. He'll decide what color next year. We've tried to get some kind of blinkies out on the open playa banks for several years now, and this was the first year it actually occured. I'm just grateful it happened at all.

So to answer your question: you'll know what to look for next year. Stay tuned. Awareness is most of the battle.
I'll be in my blanket fort until further notice.

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barnz
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 pm
Location: Manchester, Michgan, USA

Post by barnz » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:02 pm

robbidobbs wrote:Awareness is most of the battle.
Ain't it da truth! :D

Thanks for all you do for us, Robbidobbs!
~~~~~~~~
known on the Playa (especially Ranger Radios) as HOOPY FROOD.

"A towel … is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." – Douglas Adams

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bigbluedoggy
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:25 am
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Destiny Lounge 3D
Location: Pasadena / Joshua Tree, CA
Contact:

Post by bigbluedoggy » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:06 pm

Yay! Robbidobbs! Our camp is going to offer TP assistance next year!!! Thanks for all your efforts!
A plan is what you vary from.

Destiny Lounge has been proven to cause cuteness in small kittens.

Destiny Lounge 3D - located in the 3:00 Plaza at G for 2019! Look for our art installation too: The Temple uv Enlightenment!

Jefe
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:35 pm

Stop it with the new rules already

Post by Jefe » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:37 pm

Why is it that when looking for suggestions, people always have to come up with more bullshit rules?

Yes, lets look at how things are designed and organized and see if there is room for improvement (WWW guide!). But please, no more god damn rules. Capping tickets or closing the gate earlier are changes to the system and affect everyone equally (well, not really, cause friends of the org will always get their tickets, but that's another rant). But I can't believe how fast supposedly radically self reliant and self expressive burners can come up with new fascist rules and regs.

Ban RVs!
Oh, but only the big ones, or the blue ones. Yeah, let's create yet another little self congratulating group to govern some aspect of our experience with more contradicting and arbitrary rules. Great, more people that get a free ticket (jacking up the price of ours) to impose their view of how things "should" be.

Fact is most of the cool stuff and cool people out there comes in a big vehicle or trailer. RVs haul out tens of thousands of gallons of waste, reducing the number of porta potties needed.

How about this argument? No more project supplied porta potties. They go against the idea of radical self reliance. Bet you'll make friends with someone in an RV then...

Make people take a test!
Unworkable and elitist. Who writes the test? If I wrote it, you would have to tie a trucker hitch and a bowline, behind your back. "How hot does a fire need to be to cause a 1lb propane tank to blow before it vents through the safety valve?"

Here's my list of what needs some thought put into it and my suggestions:
1) Exodus - Seems like most the bottle neck is the last ramp and left hand turn. Re-gravel the ramp with smaller gravel and pack it down. It is rocky enough now that it limits your speed. Put in a temporary actual traffic light at the turn. People slow down turning left because they don't really trust the guy waving the flag, so they stop to look to make sure they are not about to get T-boned. Understandable. A big traffic signal would communicate much more clearly. It would be safer for cross traffic too.

2) What When Where WTF
Go back to the old way. If you want to list things two ways (which is great), list it by time and by camp name. But list complete info both ways. If that is too much to print, then have camps submit a short and long description for their events. The When section can list the short description, with more text listed by Camp name.

3) Design of the Man base.
As soon as I saw the giant tree trunks, I knew it would not burn and have to be pulled down. Not having any fuel near the man made for a slow (and boring) burn. Frankly, Crude Awakenings really showed up the org from the pyro to the burn of the tower itself. Though I did like the propane tank hidden in the man base. As shown by the temple, plywood over a framework makes a great burn.

I've heard this considered before, but how about an 80' tall man? No base. Legs into the ground like '95. Of course the problem there is that they don't want to load a lot of pyro into the man since the high voltage neon can (and has) set it off.

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mdmf007
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Posts: 5326
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:32 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: ESD
Location: my computer

Post by mdmf007 » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:06 pm

VikingNomad wrote:I have one suggestion to get the ball rolling, and to contribute to what I'm asking for contributions for.

There were a lot of last minute virgin burners who thought they were going to Woodstock or a festival this year. No lights, no supplies, and completely poorly prepared and doing dumbass things. Walking around without water, getting dehydrated day and night, and begging to become speed bumps for bikes.

I suggest that Burning Man should stop selling tickets 15-30 days before it begins. Here's why... A lot of veteran burners cant commit until the last second. Also thats a pretty hefty sales stream to dump at the gate ticket sales
1. It would give virgin burners the chance to read the survival guide and not have so many issues and near accidents. Some of them never saw the survival guide until they were handed one at the gate. Many people never read anything if given months to do so

2. It would give virgin burners the chance to get in the spirit of the event which would generate a better experience and less issues. What?

3. It would give DPW a solid number of people to plan for, and not wonder if they need stuff for thousands of last minute arrivals. wouldnt change a thing. Poopers are ordered well before that. What else is there? More traffic cones? more food? fireworks. Its all fixed levels of materials. radically self reliant - remember.

4. It would help to reduce the numbers of people overall and make for a more manageable experience with prepared citizens for the conditions of Black Rock City. Who says they want it reduced? any indication of that? if the BMORG wanted it capped - they would stop selling tickets.

5. The understanding of the principles of Burning Man would promote 'leave no trace' and reduce to moop issues that the DPW is facing after this years event. No one is holding a gun to their head. If DPW VOLUNTEERS didnt do it for the wages they offer. They would raise wages.
6. A predictable number of attendees may lower the BLM fees and related support costs of EMS, etc. at 4.00 $ a day per person. 28.00 of the average persons ticket price goes to their BLM fees. a 400.00 gate ticket helps out quite bit.

Who else has a suggestion??

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Lust
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: Dallas
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Post by Lust » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:35 am

I really don't have a problem with newbies. We had 7 newbies in our theme camp and we made sure everyone of them fully understood how to survive at BM. Everyone of them had a wonderful time and did extremely well.

The extra ice spots rocked!

The guide sucked, we had so many people stop by to ask where groove lab was, because it was listed at 4:30 and Boreal, and was actually on "C"

Not allowing gas powered scooters also is a great idea

I think there should be a ticket cap, or.....

There shouldn't be any entries after thursday.
This would cut down on the unprepared, the moop, and the yahoos. The amount of moop that was left on the playa after thursday was sad.

I also don't think children should be allowed. Either that, or make people with children have to camp in one area, separate from the adult activities.
Having your neighbor send his 10year old son over to tell us to stop using our bull horn during our hours of operation at our registered theme camp, because "it was freaking his dad out and messing up his trip", was just sick! The "dad" sent his kid over twice. Apparently, tripping on acid and making his child responsible for his experience is more important then being a good parent.
Pizza Smut also got shut down because irresponsible parents that don't watch their children, might let them wander around by themselves so that they might see the smut provided for the adults.

Olyrob
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:50 pm

Post by Olyrob » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:46 am

[quote="Lust"]I really don't have a problem with newbies. We had 7 newbies in our theme camp and we made sure everyone of them fully understood how to survive at BM. Everyone of them had a wonderful time and did extremely well.

The extra ice spots rocked!

The guide sucked, we had so many people stop by to ask where groove lab was, because it was listed at 4:30 and Boreal, and was actually on "C"

Not allowing gas powered scooters also is a great idea

I think there should be a ticket cap, or.....

There shouldn't be any entries after thursday.
This would cut down on the unprepared, the moop, and the yahoos. The amount of moop that was left on the playa after thursday was sad.

I also don't think children should be allowed. Either that, or make people with children have to camp in one area, separate from the adult activities.
Having your neighbor send his 10year old son over to tell us to stop using our bull horn during our hours of operation at our registered theme camp, because "it was freaking his dad out and messing up his trip", was just sick! The "dad" sent his kid over twice. Apparently, tripping on acid and making his child responsible for his experience is more important then being a good parent.
Pizza Smut also got shut down because irresponsible parents that don't watch their children, might let them wander around by themselves so that they might see the smut provided for the adults.[/quote]

It seems to me in this instance, it's the tripping dad that doesnt need to go. The kid is not the problem, but, rather, the dad. He is the irresponsible one. Yes, some parents dont watch their kids, but in Kidsville (where we went with our kids), it was great... Very responsible parents and lots to do for the kids.

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