Was anyone harassed at the "checkers gate" ?

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Crankful
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Post by Crankful » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:35 pm

OK so I read this whole fooking thing and it is like this.......not everyone is going to do what we want all the time....deal with it!..if you really want to be relieved of your stuff next year come to the mean post office and I will take all your possessions as a bribe to get your mail delivered..having been a nude greeter in the past I have seen greeters act like assholes making people perform dumb tricks to get into the BRC.....I have taken them aside and said WTF only to find out that that was how they were treated when they arrived the first time.........so in closing monitor and model and stopping kicking up the desert dust!

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Mosin
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Post by Mosin » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:47 pm

TheJudge wrote:And Mosin - keep your threats of criminal actions to yourself. Nobody wants to hear it.
?? Who said anything about criminal actions. No one has committed or threatened a criminal action. Do you think I am stupid enough to proclaim my intention to do something illegal here? My art is completely legal. It is whimsical as well. Read the entire thread and think before chiming in to twist the entire fucking thing around and project DPW guilt/culpability/lameness/illegality on me.

And btw/ I don't give a fuck what others want to hear in such a fucked up thread. Do you think I enjoy hearing about and/or responding to this bullshit so soon after what was--for me--an EPIC burn? I just feel for those--esp. nubes-- who had theirs dampened by others who abused their positions of authority in the name of fun/art, and am pissed off about all of the obfuscation/equivocation I have read... mostly by supposed "new" members, or OG ePlaya folks like yourself. Whatever...this thread has far past its usefulness. Here's to a fun, art-focused, comedic 09!! :wink:

XO

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Mosin
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Post by Mosin » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:19 pm

Just to be absolutely clear where I'm coming from here so as not to leave any bad vibes... I didn't see this shit go down at the gate or the playa. As far as my experience went, DPW was fucking awesome, as was every volunteer and burner there. Hell, even my interactions with LEOs was awesome. I would never exact revenge or seek retribution (even in a fully Nevada-legal, comedic sense) for some"injustice" I didn't personally witness or experience. With that said, these stories, and the aformentioned rationalizations provided by pseudo-nubes and OGs pissed me off... until Simon's "served cold" post turned on a lightbulb. Anyhoo, I have a genuinely hilarious contingency plan to deal with such a situation if it happens again next year. If people find that problematic or threatening, I guess their morals/ethics and/or sense of justice differs from mine. Fine.

But isn't this the point: the few people in positions of authority/security at the gate (and subsequently, roaming the playa with their ID) need to be briefly-but-seriously informed that stealing tired and/or newby burners' shit by bullshitting rules and abusing authority is as illegal as smoking crack or slashing their tires at the gate or on the playa... however comedic, artistic, or punk'n good fun they might think theft is. <PERIOD> It would take 2 minutes to explain.

I said I didn't want to leave any bad vibes, but I must equivocate...anybody who doesn't get that last paragraph, or suggests that I or others volunteer to assure that this doesn't happen again, or who pretends that I am now the problem can su... <edited by Dept of Dreamland Security> !!!

Namaste

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:33 pm

I'm presuming Troyds's main purpose in this thread was to seek corroboration wrt his Burning Man experience, not to give you people straw men to incinerate.

FWIW I was one of the first generation "DPW" from 1997. The plan that year included a ten acre parking lot up near the state highway where you people were supposed to be able to park your vehicles and walk in to your campsites. As it turned out, *nobody* chose to use the parking lot we cleared in the brush, but I still think parking & walking in to Burning Man is a great idea, because it would force people to think about wheeling crates full of blinky garbage on hand carts into the event space.
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Post by Mosin » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:39 pm

(Assuming you're addressing me) Straw men? And who mentioned Troyds? I've said my thing and it's crystal fucking clear. I'm out...schl8r!

:twisted:

Mosin

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:37 pm

Mosin, looks like you still haven't got the memo. The people walking around on the playa taking people's blinkies had *nothing* to do with gate. Or better, the gate department had nothing whatsoever to do with the art project called COGS. It appears that a person from another department who was taking part in COGS came out to the gate to volunteer for a shift and got a little carried away with the shtick.

So far I have not seen posted on eplaya or anywhere else that anyone other than the original poster here had their blinky stuff taken from them at the gate. I would imagine that if there had been some general raiding of glowy shit going on at the gate, people would be burning up their keyboards to post about it.

All indications are at this point that what happened at the gate in this case was an isolated case of one person taking a prank too far with a very passive participant who never called the person on it. I am not prepared, based on what I have seen so far, to believe that "the gate checkers" were taking stuff from people as a general rule. We would likely have heard about it by now if that was the case.

It wasn't a case of someone from the gate taking shit and subsequently roaming the playa "impersonating" a "law enforcement officer" (as if there is a law enforcement agency called Coalition Opposed to Glow Sticks). It is more a case of someone roaming the playa confiscating glowy shit deciding to go out to the gate and play their role out there. In other words, the reverse of what you seem to want to portray it as.

Besides, a better way of doing this is to make the participant WANT to give you the glow sticks. Tell them that the chemicals inside glowsticks can cause severe acute cranial rectosis and the symptoms are blurred vision followed by complete blindness followed by difficulty breathing. Then back and leg pain, followed by possible death by suffocation in severe cases ... or something.
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Toolmaker
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Post by Toolmaker » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:00 am

Bob wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:Bob mentioned a remark....
Actually my solution is subcontracting.

Look at medical -- you don't have hippies handing out tea and herbal bandaids, yes?

Sanitation -- have the Earth Guardians build a few composting toilets at each corner?

Fire -- you don't depend on volunteers running bucket brigades of cooler water, you hire some pros, right?

So why not sub out all the ticket handling, traffic, event security, janitorial services, heavy equipment, etc. instead of perpetuating a summer camp run by ex-Soviet aparatchiks specializing in the fine art of kleptocracy, which is apparently what you currently have?

Or maybe a better interweb form will help.
As usual you are right on point. With the problems of gate and exodus volunteer needs that have been around for some time having pros would likely make things ALOT smoother. 5 bucks a ticket should cover the gate and exodus needs just fine.


geekster wrote:I resent the implication some have made that the confiscation of glowsticks either by that person at the gate or on the playa was in any way connected with the Gate department.
If they were not Gate staff then they should have been REMOVED from the Gate area. This happen to alot of folks and the goodies were handed out in STAFF areas for fucksake. What you think so many thousands of dollars of booty got gifted? Art project my ass.. alot of what was stolen were sustainable goods.
Mosin wrote:Why are people getting so upset here about ART? I have finally found clarity here through all the bullshit obfuscation and rationalization.... but I won't mention any names.... Geek and Bob. The DPW showed us their art this year, and some of us are going to reciprocate next year. Unfortunately I have a feeling that our art will put a damper on their art in the future, but it doesn't matter... it's all about the ART, isn't it?

New definitions of "Art Car" on the horizon, yo! BM is so...dynamic!! :)
BM IS a do-ocracy afterall!
Bob wrote:FWIW I was one of the first generation "DPW" from 1997. The plan that year included a ten acre parking lot up near the state highway where you people were supposed to be able to park your vehicles and walk in to your campsites. As it turned out, *nobody* chose to use the parking lot we cleared in the brush, but I still think parking & walking in to Burning Man is a great idea, because it would force people to think about wheeling crates full of blinky garbage on hand carts into the event space.
This would certainly free up more room in the city. But what about larger camps? What about the folks that want to camp IN their van or truck? Having a vehicle handy as a windbreak and a place to mount shade from is part of alot of camp "plans". Not to meantion some folks using vehicles to create "walls" to "outline" their camps footprint.
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Post by geekster » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:20 am

"If they were not Gate staff then they should have been REMOVED from the Gate area. "

I have no doubt the person would have been removed from the area had it been brought to the attention of gate staff at the time it happened. The facts as far as I can tell are that the gate staff didn't find out about it until the person was already gone. There is nothing they can do if they find out and the person has already gone aside from not allowing the person involved to assist gate again in the future.
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troyds
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Post by troyds » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:47 am

Geekster,

I don’t know who you are or how you are an authority on whether or not these were G-Staff, imposters, art project people, DPW or whatever. I am not ready to make any assumptions on who, or who these people were, based on what you say. One thing I am very clear about though is that it was not a solo person acting alone. Really. If you choose not to believe that, that’s fine, but it’s true. This is not just as simple as not allowing “that one personâ€

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:56 am

There are also Narc's along with theves in in the Greeter lot

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Post by geekster » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:26 am

Troyds, information about the COGS project was posted on the Burning Man website before the event. That is how I know about that. I also have several friends that worked at the gate this year and I have worked at the gate in past years so I can say that as far as I know, there is no policy to take anything except what is prohibited in the survival guide. And I will point out again that so far, there have been no other reports of this nature and I would expect there to be plenty of them if this were something generally being done by gate people.

I am not making any assumptions, I am going by published information. COGS was published ahead of the event. I posted a link and the description text of the project earlier in this thread.

In general if a large number of people are wronged or if there is some general thing that is done with participants that is wrong, people tend to post about it as soon as they are able. I am not going to go along with your assumption that this must have been widespread at the gate. Nobody said a word to me about blinkies, glowies, shit made in China or bought at Wal-Mart when I came through the gate. It wasn't a general gate practice.

It is looking like you were selected by this person, maybe because you were so passive, I don't know. It seems to me that she tried to take things WAY over the top to get a rise out of you (the China / Wal-Mart thing). You didn't speak up so maybe she figured it wasn't worth all that much to you or something, I have no idea what was going through the person's mind. Maybe she did try it on other people, got called on it, and stopped and everyone all around had a big laugh. I have a feeling that is what would have happened had you called her on it but I can't know that.

It wasn't right to do in the gate lanes but it wasn't a "gate department" thing, I am convinced of that. I find it quite annoying that you are attempting to make some claim that because nobody else posted about it, it doesn't mean it wasn't widespread. Until we hear at least ONE other report, I am going to assume that you were the only person experiencing such a loss at the gate and that she was the only one doing such things. So far that has not been a single report other than yours of anyone taking anything that wasn't supposed to be taken at the gate.

Next year they might make you put all your water into 3oz bottles, so be prepared.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.

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mars
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Post by mars » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:36 am

Eplaya is a very small percentage of total burners and an even smaller percentage of people who actually wen this year, and only a percentage of people who went this year are already back reading these posts.

You cannot assume that because no-one else has posted a similar experience, that it didn't happen. And even if it was just this one experience, then the person it happened to should be reimbursed 1,000.00, given a free ticket for next year and a written apology. This would erase the negativity.
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honeyfire
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Post by honeyfire » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:06 am

geekster wrote:severe acute cranial rectosis and the symptoms are blurred vision followed by complete blindness followed by difficulty breathing. Then back and leg pain, followed by possible death by suffocation in severe cases ... or something.
BWAAHAAHAAHAAAA!!!
EXcellent!


As regards confiscation at gate, it occurs to me to wonder what they'd do about someone arriving with, say, a dog.
My numbnuts neighbor was gonna take his until i humiliated him out of it (i prefer gentle reason, but he* suffers from cranial rectosis and can't hear words of gentle reason).
So i wonder now, what would be done if he had brought the poor pup (aka COOP, Canid Out Of Place).
Would he simply be turned back, as i assume?

*Actually, as is generally the case with this disorder, he suffers far less than everyone aorund him... *sigh*
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

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Satan
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Dogs

Post by Satan » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:39 am

There was a puppy brought to burning man this year. She was locked in a tent with no shade or water, and was in very bad condition when she was rescued by the rangers. They brought her to the gate crew who not only saved her life but also convinced her "owner" to give her up. She now has a very nice home with some wonderful new responsible parents. Her previous "owner" was evicted from BRC. Without the efforts of the gate crew, she would probably be dead. She had all the signs of neglect, fleas, worms, dehydration, heat exhaustion...

the playa is not the right place for dogs, especially puppies.

From what I understand, people who are caught with dogs trying to enter the gate are sent to Gerlach to kennel their animal. Only staff dogs who are grandfathered in from long ago are permitted, and if they didn't take excellent care of those dogs while on site, they would not be given permission to return.

my 2cents

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Post by oaklandfunk » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:49 am

mars wrote:Eplaya is a very small percentage of total burners.
Thank goodness for that!

troyds
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Post by troyds » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:35 pm

Mars,

Nah, I got a lot of gifts over the coarse of the week. So, I’m not asking for any dough, unless of course the perps coughed something up. An apology would be all right and I have gotten some (You folks are awesome and real) A ticket would be awesome, but I have to tell ya, I might end up gifting that to a friend I made recently that’s a little strapped for "jack." LOL!

There are a couple of things that really swing the negatives away and that’s people allowing for the exploration of the idea that certain elements of the process may be corrupt or prone to be taken advantage of, because of the chaos and conditions that surround the event; because of inner-organizational politics; because of a few fucktards or whatever. The fact that people care and have an opinion is great. They should have and they should be allowed to voice those. That’s good stuff for me. To know that there are people out there involved in the infrastructure of the event (or not) that actually care if somebody get’s punked out at the gate or anywhere at the event, that’s very redeeming and makes sense.

As far as economics are concerned, I think I came out ahead and here’s why:

The Moonshine Tavern Shotglass gifted to me by Momma Lola has to be worth $1762.48 empty! (My appraisal of course) LOL!
I never went without food or drink or glow! In fact, I might just be a “playa ratâ€

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Post by Zona_the_stona » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:47 pm

troyds wrote: Hey on Current TV last night I saw that they just came out with Bacon flavored Vodka :idea: (not kidding). LOL!
My buddy and I rode past an spot on the esplanade that had a sign about bacon. We stopped and talked to them for a minute and they offered me a Bacon-infused vodka bloody mary. The bottle had a ton of cooked bacon in it. It was pretty good, it had a smokey flavor. Perfect for a bloody mary!

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Post by thirt33n » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:15 pm

....i think i'm an alcoholic and this only makes things better.....worse......better?
blow.

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Post by honeyfire » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:42 pm

Satan wrote: From what I understand, people who are caught with dogs trying to enter the gate are sent to Gerlach to kennel their animal.
That's kinda what i figured, was just curious.

Satan wrote:There was a puppy ... locked in a tent with no shade or water ... in very bad condition ...
the gate crew ... convinced her "owner" to give her up. ... Her previous "owner" was evicted from BRC.
As well they might be!
Stupid fucktard son of a bitch is lucky it was Rangers and not me.
My playa gear includes a nice big utility knife and anyone who knows me knows that tent would've been left in ribbons.
"NO, you can't have your dog back. Be glad i'm not filing charges and handing your sadistic ass to LEO right now".

Satan wrote:the playa is not the right place for dogs, especially puppies.
Damn straight.
Hence my willingness to, essentially, emotionally abuse someone into leaving his dog at home.

Hilariously, i didn't make it this year because i'm paying off a $4000 vet bill from when my own dog almost killed herself last fall.
Yep, she's worth it. *HUGE smile!*
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

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Post by Boijoy » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:16 pm

thought I would "chime in" w/ my exit gate experience. I was told this by the young man upon leaving on Sat. am. " I'm giving you a head's up that the police are pulling people over,,, so if you have "ANY' thing you need to leave.. you can leave it with me" Implying that I had drugs that might be found.. I told him.." your not geeting my weed Wookie! ".. he then asked me for a beer.. :-l whatever.
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:21 pm

Wonder if it was the same Gate person kicked out of the event for pocketing the $600 he was skimming off of people paying the $20 to go to town?

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:09 pm

If they were only kicked out, why wouldn't the next thief steal too?
No risk at all.

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Post by ygmir » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:21 pm

I was told about the searching on exit, as well.......and saw no evidence of same, at all.....
But, he did say we could "donate" anything we didn't want "found upon search" by the LEO's............or any booze we didn't want to take back.
I gifted him a bottle of bubbly, and said it as such, so, he could have mimosas for breaky.........
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oaklandfunk
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Post by oaklandfunk » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:36 pm

gyre wrote:If they were only kicked out, why wouldn't the next thief steal too?
No risk at all.
The police arent the solution to every problem man. In fact the less police presence @ the event the better as far as im concerned. They create more problems and steal more property each year than any participant, thats for sure. Ive been robbed too man, many times, but ive let it go. every act of thievery isnt a personal attack on you.

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Post by thirt33n » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:57 pm

i dunno oak, i like you. i just disagree with your lopsided stance and some of the things you say.

you're either a blind pacifist or still just defending your gate folk. either is fine but to me allowing thievery without resistance will eventually come back to bite ME or at least try to bite me and that is a personal attack.

confolk know suckers though and a sucker i am not.

it's a combo of schooling the suckers and stomping the cons and you've been heavy on the schooling the suckers side which means that together we're a good team.

you school and i'll stomp....although i'm tired of stomping here
so let's just have a beer

:)
blow.

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Post by oaklandfunk » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:17 pm

thirt33n wrote:i dunno oak, i like you. i just disagree with your lopsided stance and some of the things you say.

you're either a blind pacifist or still just defending your gate folk. either is fine but to me allowing thievery without resistance will eventually come back to bite ME or at least try to bite me and that is a personal attack.

confolk know suckers though and a sucker i am not.

it's a combo of schooling the suckers and stomping the cons and you've been heavy on the schooling the suckers side which means that together we're a good team.

you school and i'll stomp....although i'm tired of stomping here
so let's just have a beer

:)
oh no, i feel you. Thieves are dicks and need to be punished. I just dont think that getting daddy popo involved ought to be the first line of attack. Nor do i think violence should. In fact the semi-official burning man policy is for us to try to deal with it in the community(rangers, kicking a staffer out of the event etc) before we have to ESCALATE it to Law Enforcement. Dont get me wrong im not a wild eyed leftist think "fuckin pigs are always crooked". Im just not down with naivate on the other side that would suggest that police are always the answer (especially at burning man).

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Post by thirt33n » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:48 pm

word. i agree with the keep the po-lice out as much as possible too.
...so long as the internal system doesn't start lookin' like the UN,...spineless.

look at that, we've practically merged.

:)
blow.

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Post by EB » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:19 pm

oaklandfunk wrote: The police ... create more problems and steal more property each year than any participant, thats for sure.
Yeah, okay, gotcha...

And people wonder where the "frat boy" atmosphere comes from.
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:27 pm

So you advocate dealing with it, by what, wishful thinking?
It's becoming clear why there would be a problem in the first place.

If this is the actual practice, then the millions of dollars of equipment that are exposed to the gate should not be.
Something will eventually happen involving more than financial loss, and the message seems to be that violence or a lawsuit with punitive damages will be needed.
And it is ultimately our money on both sides.

If someone is rude to the guests, kick them out.
Stealing?
Patting them on the head and sending them home is a clear signal to the police that they are needed there.

If you can't deal with criminal behavior, you really shouldn't be in charge of people.

I'm pretty disgusted.

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Post by cowgirl » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:57 pm

""If you can't deal with criminal behavior, you really shouldn't be in charge of people. ""

woah. that was a good sentence right there.

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