Was anyone harassed at the "checkers gate" ?

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:02 pm

Okay, so what policy do you think the department could implement to prevent one person from doing something dumb with one participant in the course of nearly 50,000 separate interactions with people?

I don't think there is any policy any department of anything can implement to prevent a lapse in judgment by an individual.

What we *can* do is inform people that if something like this happens to them, there is recourse and let them know who to go to or who to ask for. I just can't think of a better way. There is no way to guarantee that an individual won't do something dumb. There is a way to guarantee that if you are on the receiving end of that in the future, you can get it dealt with right then and right there before it gets any worse for you or for others following you. That's all I am really trying to point out.

It really sucks that the stuff was lost and I don't find any pleasure in hearing about that. The taking that stuff wasn't department policy, it was an individual decision made at that moment. That's hard for an organization who depends of volunteers to prevent.
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Post by spectabillis » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:18 pm

geekster wrote:I apologize for the whiner comment and it wasn't aimed so much at the original posting but the general litany of people posting about COG confiscating their blinkies on the playa on top of that original posting.
came across as being dismissive in a mocking way to me, which usually makes things entirely worse. i know i was really severe and dont doubt there would be a reaction of defensiveness, so i'm sorry if that happens.

we can all argue how something like getting trivial shit taken from you isnt to get so worked up over, but they guy seems to have taken that into account. its the basic blatent disrespect of people thats runs against what they believed burningman to be about - thats the issue, so its going to be an ignitor on trends that continue.

so get used to the bitching until these issues are addressed, and guess what, thats just not going to happen.

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Post by geekster » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:39 pm

"we can all argue how something like getting trivial shit taken from you isnt to get so worked up over, but they guy seems to have taken that into account. its the basic blatent disrespect of people thats runs against what they believed burningman to be about "

When an individual does something disrespectful of a participant and they are a "fill in" who only worked that one shift, I can't think of much you can do about it if you don't hear about it until after that shift is over. People have to hear about it right then when something can be done about it and that is particularly true with a "walk in" participant volunteer or "fill in" volunteer from another department. It is sort of like trying to close the barn door after the horse has gone. People need to know that they can say "no" if someone tries to do something that isn't right and get it sorted out. I just can't think of a better way to address it short of not allowing any volunteers during the event and I don't think that is sustainable either. BM doesn't need to operate like the government. I go out there to get away from that shit, why would anyone want to drag that mentality out there? I honestly and sincerely believe that the answer likes in acculturation and letting people know that they hold the same "rank" as everyone else and you can call a gate person or a person from any other department on it when they fuck up. And if you don't say anything, don't do anything, don't protest, etc. Then chances are that it can't get fixed.

But really, what could Gate have done ahead of time to prevent that person from doing that COG shtick?
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Post by Bob » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:00 pm

Does this mean you people are volunteering for Gate next year? Or maybe the HR dept?

I do sympathize with the OP, there's no excuse for confiscation or fucking with people without reasonable notice or cause, and I wouldn't shut up about it until you get satisfaction. However, the inventory of glow crap he lists is what DPW typically finds discarded on the ground in your average rave camp, so maybe the Ten Principles you people have been flogging each other with lately should include a codicil regarding stupid gifts.
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Post by spectabillis » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:29 am

Bob wrote:Does this mean you people are volunteering for Gate next year? Or maybe the HR dept?
why in the fuck would i go and do something like that!? since i wouldnt follow the covering each others ass philosophy i would be moved around and whatever decisions immediately overturned, or outright ignored from the beginning. unfortunately its become a privelige based intergroup social standing thing, and no place for an active idealist like me. aparantly i'm the new asshole.

well, it always was that way in a few areas, but now its spread like bacteria on the spoiled flesh of a carcass.

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Post by gyre » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:35 am

How to fix it?

You could start with anyone thinking this cog horseshit is clever or a prank.

The org can't keep track of people put on the gate?
Don't put them on there.
Hand a few over for jail time and I bet the problem is fairly easy to control.

Pretty laughable to think there is one $1000 robbery at the gate and nothing else.

I'm guessing the judges you think would laugh at this stuff understand robbery fairly well.
I bet they understand the explanation that someone stole from your friends, so you thought they would enjoy a trip to reno in an ambulance too.
I bet a judge in nevada would understand that very well.

Whatever happens, the org is 100% responsible for all property put at risk by exposure to the gate staff.

If the org can't fix it, let the mob do it.


What a load of bullshit!
It's a prank like conning elderly people out of their savings.
Real funny!

Biggest problem is anyone working for the llc that would even think this is acceptable or funny in the first place.
Why would they be there anyway?

I still haven't heard why this cog crap is funny.
Is there a punchline somewhere?

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Post by Toolmaker » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:34 am

Stealing a thousand dollars of themecamp supplies and having the audacity to give it away in plain sight is not a prank no matter where the shit comes from or how many ppl are involved. The fact that gate are allowed to coinfiscate and do have authority whereas greeters are the ones supposed to prank makes this a worse "prank" as you call it. The rest of us call it felony theft. Really geek.. you think its cool to fuck themecamps out of a grand. A fuckin prank.. sure.. a good prank would be to remove your entire campsite while you go out. HAHA fuckin riot of a prank. I guess when my duffel with food and water was stolen from me while I was sleeping next to it that was a funny prank too. Yeah.. I'm still laughing.
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Post by wedeliver » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:50 am

Something that left me a bit conflicted this year was the yellow bike crew, while recovering yellow bikes that had been locked to others, were popping the tires of the bikes left behind.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:34 am

alright, call me an prick, but as a member of C.O.C.K ( Coalition Of Cocaine Kids) we have been taking Eight-balls from suckers for many years under the guise of the DEA (Dont Even Ask) and doing monster lines all week long at the expense of Hollywood Types.


Now, of course, they NEVER complain because Cocaine is ILLEGAL....


i think that is the main issue, N'est-ce pas? Had Troy (and i think i know you troy, i was with videogasm in 2000) had say, a SHOTGUN, then he wouldnt have a leg to stand on, because the confiscated item would be CONTRABAND.

Since Glow sticks are NOT contraband AS OF YET and are merely UNDESIRABLE like asian women behind the wheel of a car, i have to say that although it was unpleasant, and your reaction was to cower in fear, you lost your booty to some BM pirates.

Guess What, it happens all the time, and at least at BM it was not your wallet or your drugs.

The Issue of cheap ass blinkies aside, i think the moral of this story is that you must stand up for yourself, and defend your rights, even if it's some Punk from DPW who is hassling you.

the dirtier they are, the harder they hit the dust when they fall.


So, troy, i am sorry you got the bitch end of the Pranky stick, next year, i assume you'll be ready, and willing to prank those motherfuckers right back....


revenge is best served up cold as ice, start planning now.
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Post by thirt33n » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:15 am

another notch in the morning laugh belt provided by my ole buddy simon.

good morning you crazy successful businessman.
blow.

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Post by Mosin » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:00 am

Simon is right. Retribution can be fun. Oh how "my mind begins to hum." :twisted:

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Post by oheric! » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:43 am

Retribution:
Charge the gate, take no prisoners!
Throw warm soapy water at the DPWs!
Ahh fuck it, "make alternative travel plans, not war"
After dealing with those ass-clowns "my" interests are better served bopping around in Thailand next year.

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Post by wedeliver » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:58 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:alright, call me an prick, ....
Is this a penis joke??
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Post by oaklandfunk » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:07 pm

Allright everybody relax a little! Someone started an art project that involved pranking. Something that , in fact, burning man has its roots in. Cacophany Society and the Suicide club before it (the precursours to our lovely little thing) do/did gurrilla pranking . The Billboard Liberation Front is a spin off of said groups too and involves the destruction of property for the sake of art and fun. Burning man still has some(sadly few) of those anarcic elements left and Its apart of wat makes it great(even when it goes too far sometimes). You want all happy vibes go to the rainbow gathering sometimes what we do is on the edge and dangerous. Thats part of what makes it unique. What happpend:
Somebody( a first time volunteer) took that pranking project too far and did it in the wrong place and in the wrong way. That sucks. and Its being looked into and adresses by the right people and will hopefully not happen again.

But lets get some perspective. All you people talking about how you are going to apply lethal force or taze gate voulnteers becuase of the horrific crime against humanity that occured when somones blinky lights were conned away from them are taking themselves, burning man and this situation way to seriously. And the idea of the police helping us to enforce the principles of burning man is turing my stomach.

We are a community and we have ways to deal with this stuff internally. THe OP is taking the action within the community he feels is right(contacting rangers, the org, etc.) the rest of you chill out. This is NOT the same as someone stealing your car at burning man or RAPE(as it was compared to earlier) its an example of somones art( subjective as ever) being mis handled and someones position at the gate being misused.

Burning man isnt coming to a crashing halt. Nazis arent working at the gate. You arent going to kill or taze anyone for trying to trick you out of your blinky sword.

Everyone take a breath. Then come volunteer for gate next year. We need more jumpy people.

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Post by Mosin » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:19 pm

But wait! This IS my new art project. It is the Justice for Nubes Society that harkens back to the good old days of "anarchic elements" and Merry Pranksters... yet with a few zany technological twists to add to the hilarity. It shouldn't cost its unknowing victims any more than what I estimate was pilfered this year in good fun, and guarantees hearty belly laughs!! Punking is fun, right?! Fucking with people and torching and/or taking their shit is art, right? Dude, in that world I am fucking DALI. :twisted:

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Post by EB » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:21 pm

oaklandfunk wrote:We are a community and we have ways to deal with this stuff internally.
Another BMorg fucktard crashes and burns.

Another mealy-mouthed apology which is, in fact, a veiled slam on how we all need to "chill out." I guess we'll see how this plays out next year when a real volunteer (Gate/Ranger/etc) trying to do his/her job gets an undeserved knuckle sandwich because some newb read this thread and was on orange alert.

Great prank!
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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Post by oaklandfunk » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:31 pm

[quote="EB"][quote="oaklandfunk"]We are a community and we have ways to deal with this stuff internally.[/quote]

Another BMorg fucktard crashes and burns.

Another mealy-mouthed apology which is, in fact, a veiled slam on how we all need to "chill out." I guess we'll see how this plays out next year when a real volunteer (Gate/Ranger/etc) trying to do his/her job gets an undeserved knuckle sandwich because some newb read this thread and was on orange alert.

Great prank![/quote]

Your name-calling outburst post does seem to belie that fact that you do in fact need to chill out. I didnt apologize at all or call anyone a name nor did I praise the prank. I simply said that bellicose and bombastic responses to this situation might be a little blown out of perspective. But i see you enjoy those methods of communication. Everybody is a tough guy on the internet.

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Post by thirt33n » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:32 pm

oakland-

blinky lights cost money.
it doesn't matter what was stolen "blinky lights" or wallets, it all translates to money, cash, someones hard earned cash.

slice it however you want to. it's theft by abuse of power and taking advantage of the tired, naive and travel weary.

you, oakland funk, just categorized yourself.

your kind should flow out with the enema that is a long time needed.

yes, my opinion. go ahead tell me to fuck myself. i do all the time.
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blow.

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Post by thirt33n » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:44 pm

oaklandfunk wrote: This is NOT the same as someone stealing your car at burning man or RAPE(as it was compared to earlier) its an example of somones art( subjective as ever) being mis handled and someones position at the gate being misused.
this IS the same as someone stealing your car, fella. $1000 worth of car is the same as $1000 worth of blinky lights. don't belittle this.
don't defend your little piece of gate staff family. overwhelmingly y'all dropped the ball BIG TIME!!! will call re-routing, wasting peoples time, stealing shit, just cork it and fix it.

hey, aristotle was hilarious in D-lot cuz i understood him. some people don't understand that shit and nobody should understand that it's supposed to be funny to get robbed. STOOOPID.

don't call me tough either. i AM tough and no, i'm not coming over to your house to fight.

...i'm actually really nice too. just have my opinions, and my dog, and my pillow, and,,,.....
blow.

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Post by EB » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:44 pm

oaklandfunk wrote: Your name-calling outburst post does seem to belie that fact that you do in fact need to chill out. I didnt call anyone a name nor did I praise the prank. I simply said that bellicose and bombastic responses to this situation might be a little blown out of perspective. But i see you enjoy those methods of communication. Everybody is a tough guy on the internet.
Sometimes bellicosity and bombast are the RIGHT responses, Oakland Funk.

...and it's not about being tough, it's about being right.

Telling people who got robbed at Gate to "chill out" is reprehensible and your "We Handle This Stuff Internally" response is bulletin board material for next year's playa vigilantes.

As I said in my previous post (before I hurt your feelings apparently,) the logical end to this bullshit is when one of the volunteers next year takes it on the chin because of some asshole's "prank."
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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Post by ygmir » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:50 pm

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Post by EspressoDude » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:39 pm

One of the greeter gals comes inside and sez she is looking for stowaways and guns. A few minutes later she sez we are good to go. I mentioned that she missed the mini-gun and the .50cal Ma Duece machine gun, which I handed her. She sez she needs to confiscate them, and takes the .50 outside and gets intimate with it. "Thanks, I needed that " and hands it back.









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So let me get this right...

Post by studebaker hoch » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:56 pm

You're not allowed to bring GLOW STICKS to Burning Man???

First I've heard of that. No fireworks, guns, excessive fuel loads, sure I get that one.

But *glow sticks*?

They're clean, and don't tend to blow away on the wind. We bring tons of them every year, and use a lot of them to light bikes and wave around while dancing etc.

/yes, we pack them out with the MOOP!
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Post by oaklandfunk » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:14 pm

[quote="thirt33n"][quote="oaklandfunk"] This is NOT the same as someone stealing your car at burning man or RAPE(as it was compared to earlier) its an example of somones art( subjective as ever) being mis handled and someones position at the gate being misused.
[/quote]

this IS the same as someone stealing your car, fella. $1000 worth of car is the same as $1000 worth of blinky lights. don't belittle this.
don't defend your little piece of gate staff family. overwhelmingly y'all dropped the ball BIG TIME!!! will call re-routing, wasting peoples time, stealing shit, just cork it and fix it.

hey, aristotle was hilarious in D-lot cuz i understood him. some people don't understand that shit and nobody should understand that it's supposed to be funny to get robbed. STOOOPID.

don't call me tough either. i AM tough and no, i'm not coming over to your house to fight.

...i'm actually really nice too. just have my opinions, and my dog, and my pillow, and,,,.....[/quote]
Even though you cant stop your name calling, Ill respond to you with respect. The difference lies in the means not the dollar amount. Alot of you are responding to this in such "american dream" reactionary ways. It was worth this much. Call the police! Sue! Gimme my money! Theh government and violence is the way to sort this out.
But the fact is this person got duped, fooled and pranked into giving up his shit. I dont think it was cool but I do think it was different than being robbed.
as for your comments about the gate,
a. Im thrilled you were d-lotted.
B
I truly truly welcome you specifically to come out to the gate and voulenteer for a few shifts to get a handle on just how impossible a situation it is to get 50 thousand people who are "high, confused , left their tickets at home, gotta piss, Wheres my car,fuck you you arent searching my car, wheres will call, you need paperwork for an art car?, take off your shoes, dont touch that" through 7 lanes. Lets see how many ideas you have about corking it and fixing it then. Its easy to sideline quarterback when you have absolutely no experience with the subject at hand but i invite you to put your money where your mouth is. I assume this will now illicit a barrage of name calling so...commence!

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Post by Mosin » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:19 pm

What part of "people in positions of authority should not abuse that authority to steal from others" don't you understand?

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Post by EB » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:34 pm

"If the facts are on your side, argue the facts..."
oaklandfunk wrote:I truly truly welcome you specifically to come out to the gate and voulenteer for a few shifts...
"If the law's on your side, argue the law..."
oaklandfunk wrote: to get a handle on just how impossible a situation it is to get 50 thousand people who are "high, confused , left their tickets at home, gotta piss, Wheres my car,fuck you you arent searching my car, wheres will call, you need paperwork for an art car?, take off your shoes, dont touch that" through 7 lanes. Lets see how many ideas you have about corking it and fixing it then.
"If you've got neither, just bang the table as hard as you can."
oaklandfunk wrote: Its easy to sideline quarterback when you have absolutely no experience with the subject at hand but i invite you to put your money where your mouth is. I assume this will now illicit a barrage of name calling so...commence!
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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Post by thirt33n » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:46 pm

oakland-

A) i was at the d-lot but not d-lotted,....still thrilled?
2) the last thing i'd wanna do is work the gate. I'm part of a winning team already, why would i wanna switch to gate? you guys are the last sign of the stress filled disorganized default world that we see, hopefully, for a week. I am the first face you see when you realize you're actually home. Greeters have no power issues. there's no struggle and few rules. I'm happy as a greeter and happy keeping away from the likes of the gate and DPW. i go to brc to spread love and have fun. apparently the gate is so NOT FUN that y'all have to pull pranks for amusement. i'd never deny that the gate is not easy. i'd also never hide the fact that the gate needs some serious problem solving. have fun with that oak.

sorry you feel disrespected by me. it's part of your personality to feel disrespected? do you wear black? maybe a few tattoos and piercings? can you take a joke? are you on an internet BB?

in any case, thanks for being respectful. you may be a better man than i....

C) ya later

p.s. this is NOT a slam, just a friendly tip. uncheck the box that says "Disable BBCode in this post" and your quotes will come out right. word. :wink:
blow.

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Post by gyre » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:55 pm

The "handle it internally" ship sailed when:

A. Someone let this happen in the first place.

B. A complaint was made and it wasn't handled internally.

C. Law enforcement wasn't called in by the rangers which was the appropriate way to handle it internally.



FYI Anarchic pranks that aren't pranks and aren't funny may have anarchic responses.
Appropriate for those that don't understand what a prank is, no?

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Post by cowgirl » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:22 pm

poor newbies, that truly sucks.

back in the 90s I was traveling through a country in Central America by myself. In broad daylight a woman and a man came up to me and saw me handle my little money purse. She said to me softly, in a pure deadpan delivery 'Give me your purse'... I said, 'Excuse me, what?'...'Give me your purse'... I smiled and laughed a bit b/c I was sort of being mugged in the laziest fashion on the planet... I said 'No, I'm not going to give you my purse' and walked away.

I understand how the newbies must've been bewildered and shocked and looking back with anger now that they know what to do.... I wish they could've thought clearly enough to say No, like I did... but that was me.

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Post by Bob » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:47 pm

Quite obviously we should blame the HR department for allowing defective volunteers to volunteer.

How did they get past the interweb questionnaire?
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