Was anyone harassed at the "checkers gate" ?

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studebaker hoch
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Post by studebaker hoch » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm having a hard time believing the gate staff could ever be this mean. They've always been super cool with me, and on those times when they kind of didn't know what to do next (do we make him empty his WHOLE TRAILER because we can't see everywhere inside), they deferred to senior staff, who waved us through. THANK YOU!

I can sympathize with the "every single person here is wasted and trying to game us" thing, having organized and thrown a small event myself and having helped with other events, yes, I know. Standing at Will Call and hearing obvious scams being tried on either side of me, I know. Hearing the same lame stories for the nth time in a morning, I know.

That's NO excuse however for ever taking it out on a single guest, no matter how bad a day you're having.

People put their *souls* into Burning Man. Huge expenses of time, energy and money, and most of all their hopes and dreams of this magical time and place. Maybe you've been to the playa so many times now you're cool to it, you forget what it was to be a wild-eyed first-timer who wants to build The Coolest Camp Ever, and is just dumb enough to try.

Those newbies ARE Burning Man.

Turning off a newbie means we lose that person next year, we lose the art, the camp, the costume, the vehicle they might have brought next time if you hadn't chased them away.
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alt12
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Post by alt12 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:26 pm

oaklandfunk wrote: This is NOT the same as someone stealing your car at burning man or RAPE(as it was compared to earlier) its an example of somones art( subjective as ever) being mis handled and someones position at the gate being misused.

Burning man isnt coming to a crashing halt. Nazis arent working at the gate. You arent going to kill or taze anyone for trying to trick you out of your blinky sword.

Everyone take a breath. Then come volunteer for gate next year. We need more jumpy people.

Sorry dude...being an asshole isn't art....you can't dress-up a shit-sandwhich and call it a cacophony society prank.....and quite frankly, I don't see why stealing someone's art-car is any different? Its all materialistic shit anyway right? $1000 worth of glowies or $10,000 worth of art-car...what's the difference? if you want to use the absurdly over-used and over-indulged word "art" to cover some asshole's ass, you should do a better job and use better metaphors....no one's buying it.....

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alt12
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Post by alt12 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:44 pm

oaklandfunknasshole wrote: But the fact is this person got duped, fooled and pranked into giving up his shit. I dont think it was cool but I do think it was different than being robbed.
as for your comments about the gate,
a. Im thrilled you were d-lotted.
B
I truly truly welcome you specifically to come out to the gate and voulenteer for a few shifts to get a handle on just how impossible a situation it is to get 50 thousand people who are "high, confused , left their tickets at home, gotta piss, Wheres my car,fuck you you arent searching my car, wheres will call, you need paperwork for an art car?, take off your shoes, dont touch that" through 7 lanes. Lets see how many ideas you have about corking it and fixing it then. Its easy to sideline quarterback when you have absolutely no experience with the subject at hand but i invite you to put your money where your mouth is. I assume this will now illicit a barrage of name calling so...commence!
Are you really part of gate-staff? Its nice to know that this not only happened but that other representatives from gate staff seem to think that it is a) funny and b) ok.....This might be the last year I bring cold beers to gaters (which has been a fun annual tradition for me for years)....

There is almost no difference between conning someone out of their stuff vs. stealing it from them when they are not looking....You telling me you can't see that? Is it ok to con old people out of their entire life savings as people do all the time? Is it ok to con them out of $1000? There just seems to be a lack of maturity to your point of view (although wrapped in a lovely neo-pacifist lets-all-get-along package....hard to get along when someone is getting screwed by someone else....thats actually how wars start).....

Pranking is great, practical jokes are fun, but at the end of the day you have to understand the consequences of your actions....If you don't get that then you are basically a child....And that is what this seems like....the acts of a child....time to grow up and join the real world....you know, where actions have consequences...where when you fuck with someone it hurts them and they don't feel good....its also sometimes called empathy....something that is lacking in small children, sociopaths and most con-men....hmmm maybe there is a connection here.....

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:11 pm

Looking forward to all you anonymous model citizens volunteering for Gate or DPW or whatever club you think will have you. Volunteers are standing by...

1-800-PRECIPITATE...

FREE BLINKY GIFTS TO THE FIRST THOUSAND JOINERS...

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE...
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Mosin
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Post by Mosin » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:30 pm

With all due respect, when I get to 3000+ posts do I get to chime in with irrelevant B.S. too? So I have to volunteer to police the fucking DPW if I don't want to see burners get their shit stolen at the gate? I prefer to go ahead with my similarly good-natured prankster art project and guffaw at the result with the masses. That will be my way of participating, creating much-needed comic relief, and helping DPW to better themselves through problem solving and radical self reliance.

oaklandfunk
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Post by oaklandfunk » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 am

alt12 wrote:
oaklandfunknasshole wrote: But the fact is this person got duped, fooled and pranked into giving up his shit. I dont think it was cool but I do think it was different than being robbed.
as for your comments about the gate,
a. Im thrilled you were d-lotted.
B
I truly truly welcome you specifically to come out to the gate and voulenteer for a few shifts to get a handle on just how impossible a situation it is to get 50 thousand people who are "high, confused , left their tickets at home, gotta piss, Wheres my car,fuck you you arent searching my car, wheres will call, you need paperwork for an art car?, take off your shoes, dont touch that" through 7 lanes. Lets see how many ideas you have about corking it and fixing it then. Its easy to sideline quarterback when you have absolutely no experience with the subject at hand but i invite you to put your money where your mouth is. I assume this will now illicit a barrage of name calling so...commence!
Are you really part of gate-staff? Its nice to know that this not only happened but that other representatives from gate staff seem to think that it is a) funny and b) ok.....This might be the last year I bring cold beers to gaters (which has been a fun annual tradition for me for years)....

There is almost no difference between conning someone out of their stuff vs. stealing it from them when they are not looking....You telling me you can't see that? Is it ok to con old people out of their entire life savings as people do all the time? Is it ok to con them out of $1000? There just seems to be a lack of maturity to your point of view (although wrapped in a lovely neo-pacifist lets-all-get-along package....hard to get along when someone is getting screwed by someone else....thats actually how wars start).....

Pranking is great, practical jokes are fun, but at the end of the day you have to understand the consequences of your actions....If you don't get that then you are basically a child....And that is what this seems like....the acts of a child....time to grow up and join the real world....you know, where actions have consequences...where when you fuck with someone it hurts them and they don't feel good....its also sometimes called empathy....something that is lacking in small children, sociopaths and most con-men....hmmm maybe there is a connection here.....

Jesus. Im not sure how many times I have to say this : I THINK WHAT HAPPENED SUCKED. I DONT THINK ITS COOL OR OK. Im not gate staff , simply someone who has volunteerd there. What that person did sucked. It was a shitty thing to do and WRONG. I feel like I said that already. It just wasn't the end of the world child rape that people are making it out to be. It was a dumb ass being a dumb ass and having people arrested and using violent language isnt the solution. THATS ALL IM SAYING.

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Post by oaklandfunk » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:12 am

thirt33n wrote:
p.s. this is NOT a slam, just a friendly tip. uncheck the box that says "Disable BBCode in this post" and your quotes will come out right. word. :wink:
Now youve actually been useful to me! See we can get along !

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:26 am

Enable the bbcode on your profile.

I don't think you get it.
The people that think theft is clever are exactly the people that belong in jail.
I know it's only a solution until they get out, but it has to do.

And language can't be violent.
Violence is physical.

Toolmaker
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Post by Toolmaker » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:10 am

Bob mentioned a remark about how they got past the interweb form...

Something I noticed when I filled out the vol app was the lack of questions. I was expecting alot more.. especially stuff meant to trick folks into revealing certain traits so they could be avoided. Maybe something can be done to require alot more information about a vol. before they are permitted to have any sort of authority. Another possible solution is to never allow first time vols to work something like PG or E. I think certain areas and duties should only be held by seasoned burners that have proven some sort of professionalism in their work. Noobs should work with Bobbi on the portas a year. I doubt a thief would wipe shit just to steal blinkys the next year.
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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:19 am

John Law was in Detroit the week of the burn.

stop blaming cacaphony, they havent done shit since they lost their ass in the mutual fund market, they were top loaded with sub-sub-sub prime loans. (who would have guessed their broker was a Dom-Dom?)


After much discussion with Brooklyn Caca, it has been resolved that any and all blame MUST be registered with BlameCaca.Com, and a small service fee will be collected for each complaint before acceptance of said blame is confirmed.

In fact, for $9.99 a month, you can blame Cacophony for just about anything, that's how easy it is, folks...


pay-pal accepted.
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EB
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Post by EB » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:26 am

oaklandfunk wrote: Jesus. Im not sure how many times I have to say this : I THINK WHAT HAPPENED SUCKED. I DONT THINK ITS COOL OR OK. Im not gate staff , simply someone who has volunteerd there. What that person did sucked. It was a shitty thing to do and WRONG. I feel like I said that already. It just wasn't the end of the world child rape that people are making it out to be. It was a dumb ass being a dumb ass and having people arrested and using violent language isnt the solution. THATS ALL IM SAYING.
Thanks for your input but we prefer to handle this stuff internally on e-playa...
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:58 am

"I'm having a hard time believing the gate staff could ever be this mean. "

It wasn't a member of gate staff that did it. It was a member of a different department that responded to a call for help when the gate got backed up and there weren't enough volunteers on shift. As I heard the story, by the time the gate department found out what had happened, the person was no longer working at the gate and there really wasn't anything they could do.
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thirt33n
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Post by thirt33n » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:05 am

...smells like DPW to me.
blow.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:39 am

Toolmaker wrote:Bob mentioned a remark....
Actually my solution is subcontracting.

Look at medical -- you don't have hippies handing out tea and herbal bandaids, yes?

Sanitation -- have the Earth Guardians build a few composting toilets at each corner?

Fire -- you don't depend on volunteers running bucket brigades of cooler water, you hire some pros, right?

So why not sub out all the ticket handling, traffic, event security, janitorial services, heavy equipment, etc. instead of perpetuating a summer camp run by ex-Soviet aparatchiks specializing in the fine art of kleptocracy, which is apparently what you currently have?

Or maybe a better interweb form will help.
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geekster
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Post by geekster » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:54 am

I have to admit that I have a lot of love and admiration for the people who work the gate. For many of them, standing out there in the wind and the dirt and the exhaust fumes *IS* their event. They are in direct contact with the elements at all times. It gets damned hot, damned thirsty, and damned hungry out there sometimes. They come in direct contact with every single participant that enters the city and some of them present quite an interesting experience. The people who work the gate are human beings too, and if it is at the end of a long shift, they have been on their feet and climbing through cargo all day and the wind has been blowing concrete up their sinuses for six hours, sure, it might cause them to be a little different than when they are fresh. And that person ahead of you might have showed up altered out of their gourd and can't find their tickets (just had them "a minute ago") wants to get all lovey with the gate staffer (that's what "greeters" are for) ... patience can sometimes wear. But overall, I believe those people are dedicated to getting the people through the gate who belong there and keeping out those who are trying to steal resources you paid for by sneaking in without paying. They put up with the weirdest shit you can imagine. Maybe weirder than you can imagine. So, I suppose I get a little defensive of them when I see them getting beaten up for something they didn't do and didn't learn about until too long after the fact to correct.

And I am not going to beat on DPW or any other department either because those people bust their asses, too. It wasn't any department or any department policy that did this. It was one individual who took a prank way too far combined with a participant who chose not to say anything on the spot and like most major foulups, it was a combination of things that caused it to turn out as bad as it did for all involved.

But I believe in my heart of hearts that those people out there on the gate really do want to do it right and yeah, they like to mess around sometimes, they would go a little nuts out there in that environment if they couldn't find some way to let off a little tension. Have a little mercy. That person checking your vehicle might have been standing out in that blowing dust for several hours before you got there. It might be freezing ass cold. It might be an oven. But they want you to get in and they want you to have a good event but they also have to be firm sometimes.

That is the root, I suppose, of my defensiveness for gate. That is a HARD fucking job. Maybe not the hardest, but it isn't easy to spend an entire event out there and many do. If you don't believe it, the department does take volunteers a few months before the event. Give it a try, see for yourself. And when you consider that the department came into contact with every single participant and what some of those participants put the gate staffers though, what is amazing is that there aren't more complaints, not that there are a few screwups. But in any case, no *department* did this. An individual did.
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Post by thirt33n » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

i agree geek. they DO work hard, like everyone else. we all deal with the same elements.

...when a soldier fucks up the commanding officers feel the heat.
i don't think it'd be hard to find out who the commanding officers at the gate were/are. i'm curious as to whether they are feeling the heat. they are responsible for the training of all who work under them and are still responsible if some jerk slipped through and fucked up.

who are the people in charge of the gate?
i'm sure they have names. i'd love to hear an official statement.

not just about the theft issue but about how the will call line got looped around and delayed for hours. i heard from more than 10 people that the will call mixup added over 2 hours to their entry to the city. welcome home, wait in line for 2 more hours because we don't give a shit enough to figure it out and we have to be here so you should too?????

fired!
blow.

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Post by mojo » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:41 am

geekster wrote: ..... It wasn't any department or any department policy that did this. It was one individual who took a prank way too far combined with a participant who chose not to say anything on the spot and like most major foulups, it was a combination of things that caused it to turn out as bad as it did for all involved.

.... But in any case, no *department* did this. An individual did.
Untrue - the OP may have been held up by one person who happened to be working the Gate, but on the playa, the "glowstick pirates" were definately NOT working alone, and in fact worked people over in groups. My research is clear that DPW workers were involved, and were likely the sole perpetrators of this practice. I'm tired of the attitude of entitlement shown by some of these people. My DPW friends just chuckle and shake their heads. It is my hope that the org will not do the same.

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Post by oaklandfunk » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:57 am

thirt33n wrote:i agree geek. they DO work hard, like everyone else. we all deal with the same elements.

...when a soldier fucks up the commanding officers feel the heat.
i don't think it'd be hard to find out who the commanding officers at the gate were/are. i'm curious as to whether they are feeling the heat. they are responsible for the training of all who work under them and are still responsible if some jerk slipped through and fucked up.

who are the people in charge of the gate?
i'm sure they have names. i'd love to hear an official statement.

not just about the theft issue but about how the will call line got looped around and delayed for hours. i heard from more than 10 people that the will call mixup added over 2 hours to their entry to the city. welcome home, wait in line for 2 more hours because we don't give a shit enough to figure it out and we have to be here so you should too?????

fired!
Actually, we DONT all deal with the same elements. Gate crew is by far one of the hardest jobs on the playa. That dust storm that people were hiding in their RVs during, had to be fully staffed by the gate, standing , unprotected in the full blast of the storm. By the way, dust storms are much worse at the gate than in the city becuase they are being generated there by all the auto traffic and the overexcited participants gunning it from the freeway to the gate. We are doing pull ups into box trucks and big rigs crawling into dangerous spaces filled with gas fumes and sharp objects. We are sucking down exaust and dust and working overnight until there are blisters on our feet from working so hard. We are dealing with unruly participants driving 40mph at us during zero visability conditions who then roll their eyes at us when we tell them to slow down. We search every car that comes into the city and keep the city free of suffering dogs, illegal firearms, mooping boas and plants stowaways who crash the party and lame unregistered mutant vehicles. And yes we also have to deal with participants who jump in line becuase they are too excited to read the huge sign that says will call tickets this way. THey wait all the way to the front of the gate only to say "oh tickets? They are at will call." SO we have to send them back to the box office and have them get their tickets and start over. Its a bitch but thats life. Unless you are talking about the delay that occured on monday. That was due to the largish dust storm that pummeled the city for hours. Remember that? IF you want to fire someone , fire God. Giving hugs and handing out maps seems like hard work too though, maybe just as hard.

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Post by geekster » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:02 pm

"the "glowstick pirates" were definately NOT working alone"

That was, if you had looked at the link I posted way earlier in this thread, an "art" project called COGS that was posted on the BM site. Coalition Opposed to Glowsticks. If you had read the website and actually looked at the descriptions of the art projects, you would have known about it before you went. It wasn't a secret. And that project had nothing to do with any specific department, wasn't in any way connected with Perimeter, Gate and Exodus, and apparently the person who filled in at the gate that day WAS playing a role in that project and apparently took things way too far in the gate lane.
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mojo
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Post by mojo » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:10 pm

geekster wrote:"the "glowstick pirates" were definately NOT working alone"

That was, if you had looked at the link I posted way earlier in this thread, an "art" project called COGS that was posted on the BM site. Coalition Opposed to Glowsticks. If you had read the website and actually looked at the descriptions of the art projects, you would have known about it before you went. It wasn't a secret.
...and such "art project" was apparently operated by DPW workers, who should have known better, and who were impersonating police officers. Sorry Geekster, what happened to the kids in my camp is unconscionable, I don't care if it is wrapped in the "art" flag.

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Post by geekster » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:18 pm

I never said it was a good idea or that I agreed with it. But forewarned is forearmed. I knew enough to feel fairly confident giving a "fuck off" if someone attempted to "confiscate" my shit. Don't think I am passing any favorable judgment by simply pointing out the information. But it had NOTHING to do with Gate and connecting what might have happened to those kids in any way with the PG&E department is also unfair. Gate had nothing to do as a department with taking people's glowy shit.
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Post by troyds » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:22 pm

Geekster,

I don’t believe for a second that it is the policy of any department to take people’s stuff.

In terms of volunteers. I do have a lot of respect for the people that use their time, monies and energy to promote the event. How can you not? From my volunteer experiences (not at BM) I’ve taken a lot of fun memories and some bad ones back home with me. It is great and bewildering at the same time. Some people genuinely appreciate you and some treat you like trash, not to mention the straightening out of all the crazy problems that arise.

One of the things that could happen to volunteers is that they start resenting the people that they are trying to help. In situations that I’ve participated in. I’ve seen this. At first you see good humor, then you see good humor turn into a defense mechanism against the stresses associated with the event and then, sometimes, you see people start to progress toward resentment (which they think is justifiable). Mix humor and resentment together with 6 hours of drinking and dust, and it’s possible for some pretty snarky stuff to happen.

But remember, it’s volunteer work. People can say, “hey I just can’t deal with this right now. I got to stop before I punk some dude out from Wisconsin.â€

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Post by Intubater69 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:26 pm

geekster wrote:Jesus Christ on a stick! Comparing someone punking someone out of their blinkies with RAPE? You have GOT to be shitting me. Nevermind, I just remembered why I don't hang out over here much anymore. Whiners.
For someone who doesnt hang our here much you sure have a lot of posts, Bub

:roll:
I get to drive the ambulance how fast?!!

SailMan

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Post by thirt33n » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:32 pm

God?
You're fired.

oakland-you've chosen a tough job. the tough job you've chosen needs serious re-structuring. probably more than any other out there. i hear you agreeing with the fact that what was done was not right. i assume that you're a great person. i do.

i think that you agree with me that the gate, no matter how slammed or weather bound, needs some serious help in figuring out how to more efficiently do the job. I understand your defensiveness. i would defend the greeters, the cafe and my mother too.

...the more work you do, especially for free, the more those who come to "play" seem like thankless yahoos with less value. this is why the DPW heads the list of renegade, on the rag assholes. i'd suspect that gate is up on that list, no?
blow.

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Post by geekster » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:36 pm

Troyds, for the most part I agree with you. I think that what happened was wrong. What I have been saying is that it wasn't a policy of the gate department to do anything like that, it wasn't a member of the gate department who did it, nobody that I have talked to associated with the gate department is happy about it, it isn't a general policy or the culture of gate department to take things other than those things specifically mentioned in the survival guide from people. I am NOT defending the taking of the stuff. I am saying that it wasn't a gate person who did it and it wasn't a policy of the gate department.

I resent the implication some have made that the confiscation of glowsticks either by that person at the gate or on the playa was in any way connected with the Gate department.
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Post by Mosin » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:52 pm

Why are people getting so upset here about ART? I have finally found clarity here through all the bullshit obfuscation and rationalization.... but I won't mention any names.... Geek and Bob. The DPW showed us their art this year, and some of us are going to reciprocate next year. Unfortunately I have a feeling that our art will put a damper on their art in the future, but it doesn't matter... it's all about the ART, isn't it?

New definitions of "Art Car" on the horizon, yo! BM is so...dynamic!! :)

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Post by oaklandfunk » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:39 pm

Mosin wrote:Why are people getting so upset here about ART? I have finally found clarity here through all the bullshit obfuscation and rationalization.... but I won't mention any names.... Geek and Bob. The DPW showed us their art this year, and some of us are going to reciprocate next year. Unfortunately I have a feeling that our art will put a damper on their art in the future, but it doesn't matter... it's all about the ART, isn't it?

New definitions of "Art Car" on the horizon, yo! BM is so...dynamic!! :)
ooo how ominous!

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TheJudge
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Post by TheJudge » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:58 pm

The gate gets help from DPW during times when there is a heavy line of people trying to get in. Like on the first day...in the middle of a dust storm...when a fuckton of people think its a good idea drive in zero visibility.

A lot of DPW that work the gate are some of the finest individuals I have ever met. Some of them are assholes.

We do the best we can to weed the assholes out.

The actions by whoever it was the took the blinkies is not something that should be condoned. It crossed a line and we all know it. I echo what Geekster has said that it is not the Gate's policy to take stuff. What happened was wrong and there is a LOT of discussion going on about it.

And Mosin - keep your threats of criminal actions to yourself. Nobody wants to hear it.
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theCryptofishist
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:00 pm

TheJudge wrote:What happened was wrong and there is a LOT of discussion going on about it.
I hope that some of it is by senior gate staffers, and not just us here.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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thirt33n
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:13 pm
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Playa Name "Crux"
Location: north

Post by thirt33n » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:32 pm

TheJudge wrote:The gate gets help from DPW during times when there is a heavy line of people trying to get in. Like on the first day...in the middle of a dust storm...when a fuckton of people think its a good idea drive in zero visibility.

A lot of DPW that work the gate are some of the finest individuals I have ever met. Some of them are assholes.

We do the best we can to weed the assholes out.

The actions by whoever it was the took the blinkies is not something that should be condoned. It crossed a line and we all know it. I echo what Geekster has said that it is not the Gate's policy to take stuff. What happened was wrong and there is a LOT of discussion going on about it.
...good to hear and thanks the judge.

i'm looking forward to hearing an official comment.

all that's left to do after that is do an even better job at weeding out the assholes. they are truly my biggest buzzkill EVER @ BM.

usually i just let it roll off my back in the default world,....but i find it harder to in brc......i dunno, i guess if you're prepared for it it's not so bad?........bs, it sucks. :P

love to all now
blow.

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