RV's on the increase calls for some creative thinking...

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pignome
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RV's on the increase calls for some creative thinking...

Post by pignome » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:19 am

Greeters reported a huge increase of RV's this year. Many of which never got out of their air conditioned boxes to say hello.

Burning man has not had to expand for huge increase of people but the huge boxes they bring with them.

Although the purpose of these shelters can be very helpful to many individuals their configuration on the playa-- blocking streets with their soild walls with only their generator's exhaust pipes and carbon monoxide to share--creates dead zones in the city and kills community and street life that used to thrive on all streets. Not to mention making it toxic for anyone not in an RV to make camp.

We need a new way to manage these large/ private vehicles so that people can become the focus again.

Perhaps RV Zone on the edge to help block large wind gusts?

Please post suggestions.

Thanks

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AntiM
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Post by AntiM » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:21 am

A Hushville coup?

EtherNinja
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Post by EtherNinja » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:24 am

How about a trailer park on the edge of town, and limit RVs within the city?
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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:25 am

Unenforcible.
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fciron
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Post by fciron » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:27 am

RV's don't park themselves with their ass-end toward the street. It takes people to do that. I could just as easily set up a wall of tent backs towards the street.

I have no idea how to force people to be more sociable.

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Post by EtherNinja » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:34 am

fciron wrote:
I have no idea how to force people to be more sociable.
Spike the punch
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oheric!
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Post by oheric! » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:35 am

Having resided in tents, domes and open playa for a few years I finally broke down and RV'd it.
I was well rested, pleasent, greatly reduced my use of the public portos (I sway alot when I drink...your welcome), and was able to manage my food/booze/entertainment without half an inch of dust covering it all.


We brought 9 people and all of our gear down in one 31 foot RV. Try that in your Prius, Xtracycle or whatever fascade of enviromental vehicle you wish.

RV's can bring more stuff/ people.

I would be more concerned with the 10,000 media professional people cruising around the playa in their golf carts then where people sleep and take their morning shit.

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somekind
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Post by somekind » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:45 am

I camped near hushville and the AEZ this year. It was blessedly quiet with no generators around. The streets were busy and the people friendly. I'd camp with those guys, for sure.
http://burningmanvideos2007.blogspot.com/

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pignome
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Less words...more thought.

Post by pignome » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:45 am

So is it the new will of participants to be anti-social burners? Isolationists in a brutal enviroment? ooh how fun!

If asking folks to please not block streets and share common space with their community is asking too much---I guess it's time to redefine the purpose of Burning man.

I didn't drive 1500 miles to live in a city of anti-social ass-holes---but if that's the trend..I guess I will consider the balance of Burning man destroyed.

I'm asking for creative suggestions--not responses soaked in doubt or fear of asking each other for compromise.

I would like to maintain a bit more faith in the Burningman community.

No one is forcing anyone.

Think outside the box.

Thank you,

sensi63
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It is not the RVs per se, it is the way they are set up

Post by sensi63 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:49 am

If you park your RV back or forward facing the street, there is still interactivity possible, the exhaust from the generator comes out the side and you can vent that with dryer hose. What I found ugly was the line of huge class A rv's on the street leading up to the grand hotel. I think it was between 730 and 8 and E or F. About 5 huge class A's parked end to end, creating a huge wall of RV, right up on the street, no interactivity, no esthetic appeal, just a large Kohler generator on the corner and a 150 foot wall of RVs, not painted, decorated or anything. I guess it was in keeping with the American Dream theme (I have mine, you are not welcome) but it was very very ugly and not interactive in any way. Especially when contrasted with the miracle of giving and beauty that was the grand hotel!

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Re: RV's on the increase calls for some creative thinking...

Post by Dustdevil » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:59 am

[quote="pignome"]Greeters reported a huge increase of RV's this year. Many of which never got out of their air conditioned boxes to say hello.

Burning man has not had to expand for huge increase of people but the huge boxes they bring with them.

Cites ?
Those who think they can and those who think they can't are both right.

pignome
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Post by pignome » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:59 am

Lovely point.
Keep the art.
Protect the grand hotel.

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Post by Bounce530 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:01 pm

That line of RV's stands out in my mind also. I saw those and the huge gennie, and water tank behind them, with a few MBenz suv's parked in front. I also noticed how they all had the same carpet/mat infront of their steps, and where the same brand/size of RV. I thought it must be some kind of promotional thing. "hey buy this product/serivce for your company and we'll set you up at BurningMan." That was my first thought.

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Re: Less words...more thought.

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:09 pm

pignome wrote:So is it the new will of participants to be anti-social burners? Isolationists in a brutal enviroment? ooh how fun!

If asking folks to please not block streets and share common space with their community is asking too much---I guess it's time to redefine the purpose of Burning man.

I didn't drive 1500 miles to live in a city of anti-social ass-holes---but if that's the trend..I guess I will consider the balance of Burning man destroyed.

I'm asking for creative suggestions--not responses soaked in doubt or fear of asking each other for compromise.

I would like to maintain a bit more faith in the Burningman community.

No one is forcing anyone.

Think outside the box.

Thank you,
You're bordering in BEING the asshole here! No one blocked any streets with their RV. And I assume that by "share common space with their community" you mean don't bring your RV... if not, just exactly what do you mean? I take it that bringing an RV isn't YOUR personal preference. Fine, don't bring one. But shut the fuck up or I'll come to your camp and bitch because you aren't doing it the way I prefer.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

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Post by Intubater69 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:10 pm

Bounce530 wrote:That line of RV's stands out in my mind also. I saw those and the huge gennie, and water tank behind them, with a few MBenz suv's parked in front. I also noticed how they all had the same carpet/mat infront of their steps, and where the same brand/size of RV. I thought it must be some kind of promotional thing. "hey buy this product/serivce for your company and we'll set you up at BurningMan." That was my first thought.
Maybe it was the Harvard Camp
I get to drive the ambulance how fast?!!

SailMan

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Post by Steven bradford » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:24 pm

The level of righteous assholes is what has really increased the last 4 years. All of the people with the "right" way to do burning man.

You know, the event that moved to the playa because they were told that was the place you could go to blow stuff up?
Steve

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Post by ZaphodBurner » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:24 pm

You really had to see the line of coaches to appreciate people's comments about it. They're not exaggerating; the entire block was a wall of metal. No art, no diversity--not even light after dark--just -identical- RVs. It reminded us of the back of a coliseum during a music festival, or the truck lot behind a carnival. (OTOH, that's where people get drugs, blow roadies for backstage passes, toss their trash or get mugged.)

You're riding along at night between 7:30 and 8 or whatever it was; one minute you're in Black Rock City, the other you're basically in a long, curving dark alley with generator noise and no other life. You couldn't see the playa because the RVs were so tall, and parallel-parked so of course so the block itself was open and exclusive to that camp.

I don't have a problem with 2 or 5 or 20 people showing up in an RV, or a fleet of them if that's their experiment, but a convoy of them so close to the Esplanade really broke up the vitality of that part of the city. They could have done fine further from the esplanade but instead it was like a bunch of people showed up at the local beach, roped off a huge area, said "You can't use this" and then blocked everybody else's view of the beach.

Lame. But again, unless you saw it I don't think you can really appreciate it. The thought "water balloon launcher" came to mind but, y'know...moop.

-c
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Post by mojo » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:26 pm

Pignome,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I, and I think most of the people I know, am vehemently against making more rules about how to park our vehicles, set up our camp, or welcome the community into our camps.

In this environment, if you want change, you will do better asking for participation, not trying to legislate it as a "rule".

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Post by AntiM » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:26 pm

Billboard vinyl graphics, cut and grommeted, clipped to the RVs. Maybe lame art, but better than nothing?

pignome
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Dear Captain...Let's talk Evolution

Post by pignome » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:37 pm

Let's talk shall we.

The idea for this discussion was to discuss the effect of RV's on playa life---not to take them away.

Read previous posts.

The issue here is with the ever changing nature of burning man and how we deal with the giganic expansion we are experiencing.

Burning man is in an evolution process.

If the city is going to become more and more RV's then how do we protect the health and safety of folks that's are not in an RV?

RV's are great. They have there place. But when you have playa conditions as they were this year and you have to expand the playa to accomidate such large vechicles.

We have to discuss the breaking point of "Radical-Self Reliance"

Evolution and expansion has been hingent on bikes. But when bike riding becomes impossible and the playa is too vast for the average person---Then our only community is in our streets.

People don't get bigger but services and shared activities like the Man and Temple Burn become farther away. And people are farther away from medical services and shelter. This is recipe for a serious problem. We can't expand if we don't have the structure to do so.

And were city services are shutting down early as they did this year...

People--are--the---issue and RV's play a role.

pignome
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Dear MOJO

Post by pignome » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:41 pm

NEVER SAID THE "R" WORD.

This is a suggestion forum.

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Re: It is not the RVs per se, it is the way they are set up

Post by HughMungus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:55 pm

sensi63 wrote:If you park your RV back or forward facing the street, there is still interactivity possible, the exhaust from the generator comes out the side and you can vent that with dryer hose. What I found ugly was the line of huge class A rv's on the street leading up to the grand hotel. I think it was between 730 and 8 and E or F. About 5 huge class A's parked end to end, creating a huge wall of RV, right up on the street, no interactivity, no esthetic appeal, just a large Kohler generator on the corner and a 150 foot wall of RVs, not painted, decorated or anything. I guess it was in keeping with the American Dream theme (I have mine, you are not welcome) but it was very very ugly and not interactive in any way. Especially when contrasted with the miracle of giving and beauty that was the grand hotel!
And what did you see on the inside?

It's amazing the assumptions people make.
It's what you make it.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:01 pm

Circle the RV's, tenderfoot, we're in Indian country.

RV's should be directed towards the Egress, where they can find someplace to park.

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Post by Mosin » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:33 pm

Like most RVs, my 1976 Winnebago Brave (AKA Pandora) has a driver's side rear-mounted genny that exhausts at a 45 deg angle back. This means the exhaust joins the stench of the MVs and JOTS and LEOs rather than blasting into the center of our camp. Point is, we don't head-in to be antisocial... it's just the best configuration for mixed (i.e. tent, vehicle and rv) camps. If you don't like the scent, get the hell off the street and come get an otter pop or mochi ice cream under the shade. Or continue to follow Johnny's shit truck or that finely tuned art car and inhale deeply.

btw/ this issue has been thoroughly covered in the Tips and Tricks section...

"RV-Vehicle Exhaust Courtesy"
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=25358

...not that we have arrived at a concrete solution!

sensi63
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Please explain your cryptic question HughMungous

Post by sensi63 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:54 pm

[size=9]And what did you see on the inside?

It's amazing the assumptions people make.[/size]
As Zaphod so aptly described, it, I saw nothing, nothing other than a large wall of RVs. Could not see inside. I agree with antiM, a Potemkin Village type construct affixed to the RVs would have been more interesting aesthetically, though like I said earlier, in a strange way the wall of RVs leading up to the oasis that was the Grand Hotel said alot about the American Dream theme...they both were the american dream in some way. I found the Hotel to be one of the most beautiful acts of giving I have seen. I am not proposing rules, regulations, nor encouraging vandalism, I just thought it was ugly, part of the yin and yang of playa life.

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Post by Steven bradford » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:56 pm

Great ideas. You all should do them.
Steve

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couglite
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Post by couglite » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:05 pm

this was my virgin year and I rented an rv solely because I didn't know what to expect despite all my research. I am truly glad I had it, because Monday's storm whooped my ass and if I was setting up a tent and shelter by myself, I may have left. With the rv, i was able to hole up and acclimatise before I got out to participate in the city. After that, I rarely even entered the rv but to replenish. I barely even slept in it.

Next year, I am not bringing an rv, and not because I am blacklisted from all the rental outfits in my area, although I am, but because now I have a guideline to go by - I will be tenting, portable garage shelter, and yes a generator, more than likely, to keep the drinks cold.

Since this was my first year, I don't know if having the rv took away from my experience, but I can say that I had the most awesome, mindfucking, double wtf experience in my life and it cost a fuck of a lot of money.

Next year, more of the same, and a lot cheaper.

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fciron
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Post by fciron » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:33 pm

I sincerely doubt that the people who obstructed the offensive line of corporate, identical, antithetical-to-everything-Burny line of RV's are reading this thread. This makes it very hard for this group to do anything about it. Lots of people don't read a damn thing on the BM site or any of the affiliated communities so it is gonna be pretty hard for us to convince them to act otherwise.

I suppose someone could make a rule but do you really want people coming around and evaluating your camp for interactivity and playafriendliness?

A large part of the reason you have gotten a hostile response, pignome, is that you have thrown out a complaint without any idea of a fix. In a place that encourages self-sufficiency you need at least a seed of a solution rather than asking us to fix your problem.

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Post by EB » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:42 pm

couglite wrote:Next year, I am not bringing an rv, and not because I am blacklisted from all the rental outfits in my area, although I am...
When asked "What's a burner?" direct them to this quote please. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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couglite
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Post by couglite » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:38 pm

Yeah, I tried to convince them that it must have been the dust from the highway - after all I drove with the windows open the whole way.

Didn't work. Plus I accidentally stole a bunch of their dishtowels and coffee spoons and the plates fell out of the cupboard on the exodus...

Oh well, I have evolved to a true burner, just in time for next year.

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