People who don't get The Temple

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Seer13
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People who don't get The Temple

Post by Seer13 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:18 am

This year was particularly weird before the temple burn.

One of the people inside the fire perimeter kept coming around and "working up the crowd," saying stuff like "We're going to burn this MUTHA!"

Then some old guy went around demanding wine and joints from people. He was walking inside the fire perimeter. We shouted out to him to have some respect and he said "Fuck off" and left.

Next a group of drunks showed up screaming at each other and telling stories about how "stupid" everyone they know is and "did daddy buy you that purse" and etc.

They were asked to show respect. One woman in their group got abusive said, "Hey Cocksucker, I've been here for a week before you all and I'll be here for a week after. I can do whatever I want here. I work here."

They kept on with their inane and stupid talk, finally some young man shouted them down. Told them he'd lost family this year and would they please move somewhere else.

Then the woman behind the lines came out again and tried to work up the crowd which the rude drunk woman just took as validation for her behavior.

When the Temple finally caught fire she screamed out "Can you see it now Cocksuckers?"

That line will remain in my mind with the temple burn for the rest of my life.

I wish she could feel our anguish. We were there to be respectful and to celebrate and cherish the lives of really nice people who died in 2007 and 2008.

"Can you see it now Cocksuckers?" from a person who "Works" at "Burning Man"?

Karma is a bitch. I feel sorry for Cocksucker girl. She has no idea the beauty of life she is rejecting by her behavior and substance abuse.

Peace to all who sat quietly and shared the Temple burn with respect. Thanks to Basura Sagrada for an awesome Temple.

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:26 am

um, yeah.


i think it was crimson, she likes the word "cocksucker".


and by the way, how do you know that dead people dont like to whoop it up, get drunk, and burn shit?


i know when I'm dead, if i dont come back as the black and white striped underwear that one of the dancers from mutaytor was wearing, i hope my ghost will be sitting happily atop whatever object it may be, urging the crowd to BURN THAT MOTHERFUCKER...


that's just me. But, we all have different ways of showing respect for the dead...

An Irish Wake for example.
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Seer13
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About the Dead

Post by Seer13 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:33 am

I don't know anything about the dead; I'm not there yet.

I do know that Cocksucker Girl disrespected the LIVING who politely asked her to get with the sense of the community who were 99.99999% sitting down respectful, versus the 0.00001 who were complete and absolute assholes.

My post is to find a solution.

Perhaps we could have an ASSHOLE section for future Temple burns and everyone who thinks whooping it up and acting like a foul-mouthed, substance abused, 3-year-old can sit with their peers while the rest of us maintain a respectful distance.

They have Hushville for Hushies, perhaps we need to segregate the disrespectful as well.

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:35 am

I'd like to book a table for two in the asshole section, smoking please, near the bar.
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Post by thirt33n » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:45 am

..nice of you to save me a seat, simon.


as for the temple burn.....find a spot 400 yards away if you want quiet. sadly, you can't get away from the assholes. if they aren't ignorantly standing in front of you they are polluting the soundwaves with "SIT DOWN!" or doing any number of things you listed. the trick is to know the assholes and ignore them or get away from them.

my opinion=no solution
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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:48 am

my fave was the schmuck wandering around looking for his lost friend yelling "Shamoo"....SHAMOOOOOO, where ARE YOU"........"SHAMOO!"




i told him to go check fucking SeaWorld, at 4:30 and L.
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Post by ygmir » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:52 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:my fave was the schmuck wandering around looking for his lost friend yelling "Shamoo"....SHAMOOOOOO, where ARE YOU"........"SHAMOO!"




i told him to go check fucking SeaWorld, at 4:30 and L.
I think he was in search of his lost Orca.............
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shaun
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Re: About the Dead

Post by shaun » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:10 pm

Seer13 wrote:I don't know anything about the dead; I'm not there yet.

I do know that Cocksucker Girl disrespected the LIVING who politely asked her to get with the sense of the community who were 99.99999% sitting down respectful, versus the 0.00001 who were complete and absolute assholes.

My post is to find a solution.

Pl.

Kill the .000001%?

BTW, what is the meaning of the temple burn? The first year David Best burned a temple I happened to stumble into it just as it was being lit and 99.9999% of people just started balling (and i mean crying) spontaneously. It was something. The other .000001% were yelling "burn the fucker!". Now it seems like legislated emo, which is Not my bag. I think they should have left it up for the blm to ponder or donated it to a city somewhere to put in a park. It was not a structure that looked like it wanted to burn, it looked like something that wanted to endure. that is very emo of me to say. There were a couple of parents I was standing near who were standing holding their kids so the kids could see and PC assholes were yelling at them to sit down and blathering on clueless to the situation. Last year was better, but I'll be there next year. Larry jumped the shark. The shark must be fed. replace Larry with Jim Mason. Too much dust. I want my money back.

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Post by Rob the Wop » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:21 pm

I get the Temple.

Its a bunch of BMORG funded wood that gets burned at a big desert party.

Anything beyond that is personal interpretation. By saying that others 'don't get it'- you instantly put yourself squarely in with the elitist Art snobs whose concepts of art are beyond ours.

If you are interested in a death memorial and ceremony where only the Chosen Few can observe in the Perscribed Manner- you might want to think about holding it somewhere else other than where the unwashed masses also have their say in what it means.
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Post by Bob » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:47 pm

As with stand-up comedians, crowd control is mostly up to the middle act.

Maybe you people need louder sing-a-longs to drown out those people who interfere with your experience.

Any suggestions? Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Simple Kind Of Man" maybe?

Jim Carroll's "People Who Died"?
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Post by gaminwench » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:59 pm

Wasn't David Best's first project on the playa a tribute to a recently deceased friend? And didn't he build the first Temple(the next year) in response to the outpouring of sympathy and empathy he received the first year - recognizing a 'need' in the burner community for a place of remembrance and grief? Didn't the Basura Sagrada crew accept this project in order to continue fulfilling that need? Doesn't the FACT that every Temple burn is honored with silence by the vast majority if the community have any weight? Is there no room for respect and traditions for the dead in Black Rock City?

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Post by Timezone LaFontaine » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:04 pm

Personally I've preferred to be quiet during the temple burn, but I don't mind if others want to shout. There was an amazing vocal wave that occurred after the '07 temple collapsed.

If Cocksucker Girl wasn't already feeling your anguish this year (which I wonder about... from your description of her behavior she could very well have been dealing with some sort of anguish, just in a different way or at a different stage of grief), she, and everyone else, most assuredly will sooner or later.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:21 pm

I don't know if that quartet of irish nationals who got a ride back to the city from us "got" the Temple burn or not, but boy did they have a tin ear for context.
I would have liked them to be silent or at least talked quietly instead of making a racket. And I found it just a little creepy that the guy who was sitting just in front of my chair brushed against the ends of my legs a couple times. But when he started telling jokes (number 1 being "What did the deaf guy say to the blind guy" and the second started off "What did the blind guy say to the cripple?") I had had enough.

I don't know if I "get" the temple burn, although I do know what it's supposed to be about. I seem to do well at most collective experience events. It's good to think that I would have been swept up into a High School Pep Rally, not to mention a Nuremburg Rally, but maybe I've thrown out some worthy baby with that bathwater. But that campfire stuff just makes me feel dorky. Even when I was in that English school for a year and we had singing and assembly every day, I just lipsynched. I figure I'm a socially defective monkey.
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Post by LeChatNoir » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:37 pm

Its true that people will always interpret things in their own way. The Temple is no different, I suppose. I do wish that everyone could get on a single idea for that relatively short moment and sit there in quiet contemplation. I also think it often quite selfish to impose a loud belligerent interpretation on others who are sitting nearby and didn‘t ask for that point of view. It seems there is more than enough of the whole previous week dedicated to such things. But I know this won’t happen within the context that is Burning Man and I accept it..

Yes, People will experience the Temple burn as they see fit to express themselves.

Because of this I now only watch it burn from far away.
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Seer13
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From the Burning Man Website

Post by Seer13 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:44 pm

From the Burning Man Website :: Ten Principles

Radical Self-expression

Radical self-expression arises from the unique gifts of the individual. No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content. It is offered as a gift to others. In this spirit, the giver should respect the rights and liberties of the recipient.

-------

Given that, I believe rowdy people are obliged to respect the rights of the people on the receiving end of rowdy and obnoxious behavior and cease and desist if requested to do so within the recipients "rights and liberties" and their own ability to Radically Self-express themselves.

Radical self-expression is not a synonym for "loud, rude, obnoxious, unspiritual, anti-community behavior.

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:51 pm

Is there no room for respect and traditions for the dead in Black Rock City?

as much room as there is for "disrespect"...


that is all.
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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:53 pm

Radical self-expression is not a synonym for "loud, rude, obnoxious, unspiritual, anti-community behavior.

wow......it's just too easy.....anyone else like to take a shot?
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gyre
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Looks Good In the Photos Anyway

Post by gyre » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:13 pm

If people had any sense of respect, they wouldn't sit during something so solemn.
I never saw any respect there at all.
I did see a bunch of self righteous assholes show up an hour after I did, and declare that I had to sit in the dust because "everyone knows that's how 'it's done".
I even saw people yell at David Best to shut the fuck up, because he was harshing their buzz or something.

Everyone sitting is being a moonbeam, treating it like a fucking picnic or something. (unless they're in a wheelchair, of course)


So I never had a pleasant or contemplative temple experience.
I guess I can enjoy the idea in theory.
I think most people aren't comfortable sitting in the dust anyway, aside from the rudeness of it, but they've all been driven away from the temple by jerks.

Great idea though.
Too bad.

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Re: From the Burning Man Website

Post by Rob the Wop » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:28 pm

Seer13 wrote:
Radical self-expression is not a synonym for "loud, rude, obnoxious, unspiritual, anti-community behavior.
You do realize that this is all opinion, right? Your spirituality will not be the same as another's. Your definition of 'Community' is not that of others.

You observed a bunch of rude drunks. Shit happens.
If it were a wailing woman holding an effigy of her dead child- she could be just as loud. Rude and obnoxious are definable only in a social context, ie- its a personal observation.

But you are trying to say that your manner of 'getting' the Temple is the correct one.

Had I lost a friend and went to the temple burn, I would probably have yelled for her to shut the fuck up too. The exception I'm taking is the elistist slant that there are people that 'get' the temple burn.

Meaning the others don't. Meaning there is a specific way to 'get the temple burn' or some such bullshit. No, there isn't.
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gyre
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Post by gyre » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:39 pm

Also, what the hell is emo?
The only emo I know is the comedian Emo Philips.
You aren't talking about him, are you?

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Post by Bob » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:51 pm

Emo Phillips is a better middle act than a bunch of rangers waving flashlights at the crowd and pointing while they take an hour to check all the pyro.

Don't blame Cocksucker Girl, blame whomever's in charge of the performance/burn for lack of participatory elements.

Hecklers are as old as fucking William Shakespeare or the Crucifixion, I'm sure.
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gyre
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Post by gyre » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:00 pm

Come to think of it, he did a whole routine on dogma, didn't he?

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:09 pm

Yes, better this year, yes.
I'm taking a nap.

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Post by Starjack » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:03 pm

Wow. You guys make me really glad I wasn't there this year.

At the Temple Burns I've been to I was very moved and impressed with the quiet, meditative solemnity. There's a particular beauty in that.

With all the other burns that happen over the weekend there is plenty of opportunity to get rowdy and loud and scream whatever the fuck you want, but there was something very special in that particular moment of ritual calm. I guess being able to scream, curse, and carry on at 95% of the events isn't enough for you?

I'm always a bit amazed by people who assert their self-assumed right to scream drunkenly into other people's spaces with a complete lack of consideration and calling the others "elitist." No, Bozo, you're declaring your invasive behavior as trumping the rights of quiet folks minding their own business. The loud and drunken few demand privileges at the expense of the quiet, meditative many. YOU'RE the elitist.

And that use of the word "Cocksucker" is very insulting to your gay brothers.

Yeah, I'm glad I missed seeing something calmly beautiful and powerful turned into an ugly tirade of drunken insults.

"Don't blame Cocksucker Girl, blame whomever's in charge of the performance/burn for lack of participatory elements."

What? She's not responsible for her own behavior? Grow up!

Radical self-reliance and radical self-expression demand radical responsibility and radical consideration for others. There's nothing radical about drunken obscenities.

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Post by shaun » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:06 pm

gyre wrote:Also, what the hell is emo?
The only emo I know is the comedian Emo Philips.
You aren't talking about him, are you?
I am abusing the term "emo" as described below, probably very badly, but maybe not. Who the fuck is emo philips? I'll check him out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo


"At the same time, use of the term "emo" expanded beyond the musical genre, which added to the confusion surrounding the term. The word "emo" became associated with open displays of strong emotion. Common fashion styles and attitudes that were becoming idiomatic of fans of similar "emo" bands also began to be referred to as "emo." As a result, bands that were loosely associated with "emo" trends or simply demonstrated emotion began to be referred to as emo.[12]"

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Post by somekind » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:30 pm

We can't say cocksucker anymore?
"And that use of the word "Cocksucker" is very insulting to your gay brothers. "
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Post by Bounce530 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:33 pm

I was moved by how quiet everybody was prior and during the temple burn. I could hear a few people yelling and cheering every now and then, but nothing like the man burn. Even though there was one girl just behind us that was passing out shots of whiskey in memory of "Grandpa Larry" but was not at all offended, or upset by it.
I guess C/S girl must have been on the other side of the circle, cause I didn't hear her.
It was very calm where we were located.

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Post by BitterDan » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:44 pm

When i am in a meditative mood at BM it does not much matter to me what other people are doing. You can woop and yell all you want, it won't phase me one bit.

So what if there are people you perceive as assholes? Deal with it. We are not about to set up "rules" about conduct at the Temple Burn. People will do what people do; either accept it or move along. Part of what makes Burning Man great is the diversity of what people find as "acceptable behavior. Burning Man is about pushing the limits and sometimes that means offending a certain subset of people. If you really want a place of quiet contemplation, go to Tibet.
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Post by Eric » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:07 pm

somekind wrote:We can't say cocksucker anymore?
"And that use of the word "Cocksucker" is very insulting to your gay brothers. "
I'm gay. I have no problem being called a cocksucker- it's something I like to do, and I do it very well, thankyouverymuch. I don't think a straight man would mind being called a "pussyfucker" or a straight woman a "cockrider"- it may not be classy, but it's not really an effective insult.

Of course, I also call myself a Kike Faggot Cocksucker quite often, so I may not be the voice of polite society....
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Post by Elderberry » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:12 pm

Last year was my first burn. I was told by my camp-mates that the temple was a solemn, spiritual place; which I accepted and respected, even though I'm not very spiritual. I thought it was actually nice to have a place of solemnity among the chaos.

I was again moved after actually visiting the temple and seeing the deep emotional impact it evoked in the people that visited. So I was prepared to go and pay my respect to the temple, to what it stood for and to the people who found it sacred. This all seemed a 'normal' part of what I was told the burn was, and I thought the fact the people would actually take some time out from all the revelry to be introspective made the event even more meaningful.

Then I went to the actual burn and was surprised to find that there were many people that chose not to show any respect for this interpretation of what the temple stood for at all.

This year, my partner and I went to the temple in a more personal participatory way and placed some hopes and dreams for the coming year in the temple. Consequently, the burn was more personally important. Remembering last year's experience, we decided to do exactly what someone else in a previous post suggested--we took chairs out on the playa just behind the crowd where we had a perfect view and yet were isolated from anyone in the crowd that might have spoiled "our" temple burn. I would suggest that others wanting a more solemn experience do the same.

Get close and rowdy at the Burning of the Man!

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