People who don't get The Temple

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
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LeChatNoir
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Post by LeChatNoir » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:20 pm

More than once I've witnessed a guy, who was being too forceful with his advance on a woman (arguably a form of expressing himself), who was shouted out and chased off by a large crowd that formed from people who were simply near the incident. One of these times, a fellow even followed the guy in question with a flashlight trained on him, allowing the BRC Rangers to catch up with and question the individual.

I guess it's about where the community draws the line of unacceptable behavior. I'm baffled at how such group consensus seems to work and that it often emerges in one great flourishing instant. It seems the community, as a collective, has not yet reached to point of spontaneous outrage over any loud behavior around the Temple burn.
we decided to do exactly what someone else in a previous post suggested--we took chairs out on the playa just behind the crowd where we had a perfect view and yet were isolated from anyone in the crowd that might have spoiled "our" temple burn.
Deep playa is a good place as well.
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Eric
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Re: From the Burning Man Website

Post by Eric » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:22 pm

Seer13 wrote:From the Burning Man Website :: Ten Principles Self Reliance
No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content.
Seer13 wrote:Given that, I believe rowdy people are obliged to respect the rights of the people on the receiving end of rowdy and obnoxious behavior and cease and desist if requested to do so within the recipients "rights and liberties"
The fact that you don't seem to notice that your interpretation is the exact opposite of the quote you use worries me.

By your interpretation "I" should be able to stop anyone else from doing what they want because "I" find their behavior obnoxious. Of course, someone else can then tell me to to stop what I'm doing because they find me obnoxious, and then someone can tell them to stop because.... fuckit.

If you don't like the way the people around you are behaving- MOVE. Take some responsibility for your own life. I stopped getting up close to the Burn years ago- I couldn't stand being close to all the jerks up front & the endless Conclave. So I moved myself back to the Esplanade, and I've enjoyed every burn since.

jkisha has exactly the right attitude!
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brcprincess
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Post by brcprincess » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:38 pm

I thought the Temple was beautiful this year. Just lovely.

But for me, the stillness of the Temple was compromised this year. In the past it was a place for reflection and contemplation, but this year it felt very "busy".

The staircase in the center of the Temple created a lot of movement. The constant stream of people shuffling up and down the stairs made it feel touristy. There were two other major structures that people could climb this year, I don't think they needed to put a staircase in the Temple.

Plus, there was nowhere for people to sit, meditate and reflect. Where did the benches go? I saw several people sitting on the ground trying to write letters and people were literally climbing over them to look at the walls. It was awful.

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AmericanFremin1
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Post by AmericanFremin1 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:33 pm

just let it all go........

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thirt33n
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Post by thirt33n » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:54 am

brcprincess wrote:I thought the Temple was beautiful this year. Just lovely.

But for me, the stillness of the Temple was compromised this year. In the past it was a place for reflection and contemplation, but this year it felt very "busy".
i don't recall a Best temple ever making noise.
Basura Sagrada had two moving creaking staircases and all kinds of dangly metallic and mixed media noisemakers everywhere.

...most likely part or most of why the temple "felt very busy" to you.

not sayin' it wasn't busy, just not much busier than normal...
blow.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:18 am

LeChatNoir wrote:More than once I've witnessed a guy, who was being too forceful with his advance on a woman (arguably a form of expressing himself), who was shouted out and chased off by a large crowd that formed from people who were simply near the incident. One of these times, a fellow even followed the guy in question with a flashlight trained on him, allowing the BRC Rangers to catch up with and question the individual.

I guess it's about where the community draws the line of unacceptable behavior. I'm baffled at how such group consensus seems to work and that it often emerges in one great flourishing instant. It seems the community, as a collective, has not yet reached to point of spontaneous outrage over any loud behavior around the Temple burn.
we decided to do exactly what someone else in a previous post suggested--we took chairs out on the playa just behind the crowd where we had a perfect view and yet were isolated from anyone in the crowd that might have spoiled "our" temple burn.
Deep playa is a good place as well.
There are studies of the psychology involved.
Just asking someone directly to watch your stuff tends to engage people more than you would expect.

Watch "Just For Laughs" for some testing of this for fun.

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brcprincess
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Post by brcprincess » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:09 am

thirt33n wrote:
brcprincess wrote:I thought the Temple was beautiful this year. Just lovely.

But for me, the stillness of the Temple was compromised this year. In the past it was a place for reflection and contemplation, but this year it felt very "busy".
i don't recall a Best temple ever making noise.
Basura Sagrada had two moving creaking staircases and all kinds of dangly metallic and mixed media noisemakers everywhere.

...most likely part or most of why the temple "felt very busy" to you.

not sayin' it wasn't busy, just not much busier than normal...
I loved the dangly metallic pieces in the Temple. I thought they were gorgeous.

I just felt the Temple was lacking in places where people could sit still and reflect. Where they could take some real time to meditate and absorb the Temple.

You either had to stand up, or sit on the floor and get stepped over.

Plus, the stillness was disrupted by people shuffling up and down the stairs. There is so much motion at BM, I always thought the Temple was a nice counterpoint to that.

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Post by Starjack » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:59 am

Eric wrote:
somekind wrote:We can't say cocksucker anymore?
"And that use of the word "Cocksucker" is very insulting to your gay brothers. "
I'm gay. I have no problem being called a cocksucker- it's something I like to do, and I do it very well, thankyouverymuch. I don't think a straight man would mind being called a "pussyfucker" or a straight woman a "cockrider"- it may not be classy, but it's not really an effective insult.

Of course, I also call myself a Kike Faggot Cocksucker quite often, so I may not be the voice of polite society....
It's all about context and intonation. I'm quite proud of my skills as a cocksucker, too, and will sometimes aver that I am so disgusted with the commercialism and conformity of "gay life" that I'm over being gay, I'm just a cocksucker.

OK.... you call yourself a Kike Cocksucker, that's your privelege. How would you feel if some gentile ran around screaming, "Fry the fucking kike!"?

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:39 am

COCKSUCKER, ASSLICKER, MOTHERFUCKER, RIM-JOB,


there, i feel better.....and quite simply put, this is much ado about nothing, that i can see, except some whiny bitch's critique of the "temple experience".....my dear, i am going to make it a point to bring my bull-horn and yell all the atrocious obscenities i can possibly think of at next years temple burn, so i suggest you not show up, because it will be a negative vibe, and you dont want to fuck up your chakra with my vitriolic dogma.


i'll be in the asshole section....i mean old tymee crotchety bitter burner section, away from all of you hyper-sensitive buddha-licking patchouli sucking spiritual vampires.

but hey, thats just me, and my interpretation.
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Starjack
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Post by Starjack » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:19 am

Ah, so in the spirit of freedom, the loudest, rudest, most obnoxious and invasive wins the day....

All right, Simon, emulating your own spirit of radical self-expression, a group of us should then stage an artistic presentation of taking your bullhorn and shoving it up your ass. Make sure it's clean, boy. Whatever comes out of one end will get shoved into the other. Not that the product at either end is much different.

DoriumLux
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Post by DoriumLux » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:11 am

In my nine years I've NEVER stumbled out to the temple burn. I just didn't care. I don't care about the man burning much and usually watch from a distance except for a few times I did conclave. I don't like being in the middle of the crowds and chaos. I'm not very emo though. I don't know if it would bother me particularly but people bother me generally.

Man, I think the anesthesia is starting to wearing off. wtf. (I just had my wisdom teeth out).

Maybe, the person that is upset about the heckling should just wear ear plugs.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:18 am

My guess is a lot of people didn't "get" a lot of burns over the years...

LA Cacophony's "Small World" comes to mind.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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thirt33n
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Post by thirt33n » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:55 am

starjack. you're stepping right into simon's trap.
do a little history on my friend simon. he's more of a jackie mason than a hitler.
and no, you cross a line when you add physical violence. it's never accepted as someones idea of art.


face it. burningman is a cross section of society. so many people "get it" with different views that it makes no sense to try to govern a "correct" path to follow. that's why so many IDIOTS still drive under the speed limit in the PASSING LANE when they are passing no one.

What, you wanna picket and raise awareness? good luck.

stand out at the temple all week and picket and campaign for the proper temple burn behavior. i'm sure someone will be up here on eplaya next years talkin' shit about you.

eggs
blow.

honeyfire
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Next time, i'm cuttin' that sucker in half!

Post by honeyfire » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:05 pm

I tried to get the Temple, i really did, but the derned thing wouldn't fit into the trunk, no matter how much shoving and rearranging...
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

Civil rights: use 'em or lose 'em!

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:21 am

shhhhhhhhhh, thirt33n, dont scare em' off.....let them keep thinking they can change me with threats...


you know i have a taste for the ultra-violence and would love to be confronted by some "Artists"....


anytime motherfuckers, anytime......you wont be able to miss me, i'm 6'5, crew cut, and dilated pupils......and a big fucking bullhorn which i will lube up because i'm a NICE guy, and i dont want to tear any delicate tissues when you find out that turn-about is fair play on the playa.


you wanna talk shit? be prepared to eat a porta-pottie full.
Frida Be You & Me

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:55 am

Jackie Mason...wow!

red arrow
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Post by red arrow » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:00 am

we experienced some proper dickheads at the burning of the man
they kept shouting 'Yo get out of the fucking way' etc

(they were sitting down and we were too but stood up for around 5 mins to have a look around cos we were waiting for around a hour for it to burn)

i didnt move due to the way he spoke to me and he kept shouting (in a thick american accent - liek the type youd expect someone from texas or something to sound like), he was so ignorant. i said to him yeah ill sit down but it would be nice if you had some manners next time

anyone who remotely got in his way was on the recieveing end of the same abuse, i didnt even see the burn properly because i was stuck behind this couple who were pretty much havin sex in front of me and i didnt want to get in the way of the guy behind me (by saturday night i was just tired and wanted to sleep)

anyway just one of the few bad experiences i had from an amazing festival.
"...but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant..." - Hunter S Thompson

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Teo del Fuego
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:04 am

Temple this year was just awe inspiring. I liked the movement of the jangly bits and the staircases and the little alcoves. Like the one in 2005, It felt more intimate and interactive than 06 and 07.

I left my own messages of hope and despair at te temple, but the actual burning of it always seems to be a little too forced kum bah yah. Because I know thousands of other people ARe trying to have a "spiritual connection" with the burning of the temple, I can force myself to sit and not stand and to keep my voice low out of respect for my fellow citizens.

The people who really irritate the fuck of out of me are those who fill the Burn night with "sit down! asshole."

And whether he's Jackie Mason or Hitler, Simon occassionally has something worth reading, but not often, and not lately.

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Fire_Moose
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Post by Fire_Moose » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:28 am

I didn;t get the temple....i wrote a couple thigns i wanted to get out in there...but i only explored a bit of the bottom level.


During teh burn i had almost front row seats but was kinda down wind...it wasnt too bad until the whole thing REALLY started burning. Then a chucnk of hot coal landed on my head....a little smaller then my fist...and i was lik e"F this S in the A" and moved back and away from falling coal...we decided it would take FOREVER for the temple to fall so we left...got back to camp right about the tiome the white out started up. It was cool to watch but i didnt really feel the emotinal side of it.
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BitterDan
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Post by BitterDan » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:29 am

I got your back Simon! This means WAR!
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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:47 am

lets get ready to RUMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLEEEEEE!


this year, we build a SYNAGOGUE, for all of the "assholes" who want to be "disrespectful" when it burns...

take your temple and shove it up your mosque.


finally, i get to wear my flaming Yarmulke.
Frida Be You & Me

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:42 am

All right, Simon, emulating your own spirit of radical self-expression, a group of us should then stage an artistic presentation of taking your bullhorn and shoving it up your ass. Make sure it's clean, boy. Whatever comes out of one end will get shoved into the other. Not that the product at either end is much different.

who you calling "Boy"?........bitch.
Frida Be You & Me

palinor
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Temple

Post by palinor » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:39 am

This is in response to all the chatter about the temple. Maybe some chatter should come from the people that actually built the fucking thing
me-the volunteer coordinator
my boyfriend- stair builder AND creator and 2nd carpenter in charge
We know that people will have their own views and own experiences of the temple but you must see it from the eyes and hearts of the people that put blood, sweat, and tears into this project.
Total there were over 250 volunteers and over 10,000 hours spent on the temple
A 1,000 of those hours were spent by my boyfriend building that epic staircase and temple.
We laughed, cried,die,d and were reborn again.
The temple was an expression of our souls and a gift to the people on the playa, in fact it was YOUR temple.
So to read negative responses to something that we gave our lives to in a sense is insulting and hurtful.
Thank you to all that stood up for us and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts
and to all of you that had negative feelings, what did you bring to the table? I didn't see you out there a month early sunburned, tired, over worked and on a deadline trying to create joy for 50,000
tell me, besides bitching what did you do?
how about volunteering for the temple next year? Do you have a dream that you wanna build and have it put on the most sacred place on the playa? We did and built it, if you can do better then do it
oh and from the stair builder catdaddy_ you wanna talk shit on my fucking stairs??? show me better

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:11 am

thank you palinor, and thanks to all of your volunteers...


i liked the staircase. i liked the temple. i always love it when it burns.


as you are aware, i mean no disrespect to the art, merely the notion that i should "worship" it in one way or another.....how perfectly default worldish, to tell others how to have fun in a public arena, and a rather open one at that.

it raises the hackles on my backside to be told what to do, as it should, and hence my response.

and yes, next year, i am wearing my flaming yarmulke, and will also bring Knishes and Bialies with a schmear, to give to the schul.
Frida Be You & Me

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ygmir
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Post by ygmir » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:34 am

no fair using all those Jewish, etc, references without footnotes........
Some of us aren't conversant in all the minutia of all these "religions"......
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Elderberry
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Re: Temple

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:50 am

palinor wrote:This is in response to all the chatter about the temple. Maybe some chatter should come from the people that actually built the fucking thing
me-the volunteer coordinator
my boyfriend- stair builder AND creator and 2nd carpenter in charge
We know that people will have their own views and own experiences of the temple but you must see it from the eyes and hearts of the people that put blood, sweat, and tears into this project.
Total there were over 250 volunteers and over 10,000 hours spent on the temple
A 1,000 of those hours were spent by my boyfriend building that epic staircase and temple.
We laughed, cried,die,d and were reborn again.
The temple was an expression of our souls and a gift to the people on the playa, in fact it was YOUR temple.
So to read negative responses to something that we gave our lives to in a sense is insulting and hurtful.
Thank you to all that stood up for us and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts
and to all of you that had negative feelings, what did you bring to the table? I didn't see you out there a month early sunburned, tired, over worked and on a deadline trying to create joy for 50,000
tell me, besides bitching what did you do?
how about volunteering for the temple next year? Do you have a dream that you wanna build and have it put on the most sacred place on the playa? We did and built it, if you can do better then do it
oh and from the stair builder catdaddy_ you wanna talk shit on my fucking stairs??? show me better
Now you know what it's like to be in the spot-light. With art comes art critics. It never feels good to have something you poured your soul into be criticized, but it comes with the teritory and you can't let it get to you personally. The important thing to remember is that it, in no way, diminishes you, your art or contribution.

Remember, opinions are like ass holes. Everybody has one and they are all full of shit.

Thanks for your contribution.

JK

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:08 pm

What does stair building or volunteer coordinating weeks or months before your burn have to do with behavior on the night of your burn?

Maybe you would have been motivated to punch somebody in the neck.

Or ignore them and make plans for cleaning up after your funded art project.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:45 pm

Or maybe I don't get funded religious buildings in general.

Have you complained to your Pope or Imam?

Have you complained to your God? Your Satan? Your President? Your Larry?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

Max Burke
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Who invented silence to honor the dead?

Post by Max Burke » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:04 am

As far as meditation goes, if you were truely meditating you would not be focusing on the rants of people around you.. You should be able to focus on NOTHING. IF you wish to meditate about the dead, that's some interesting topic that can be explored more often but meditating at a public endurance squat on a 3-story hunk of wood that has huge log pillars and is going to take 15+ minutes to actually fully catch on fire is not going to be something that the whole populace can sit through. Think about how burning man started and wonder what it means to honor the dead. Do you really think you can pull it off with some standard of how things should be done when you're dealing with 50k+ which maybe there are actually 30k+ at the event itself?
Imagine setting guidelines to how to conduct yourself during a theme camp that you had to register just to go visit and then follow their rules? Doesn't that sound a bit religious and much like a herding of sheep than an expression of free will and radical self-reliance?
I'm not arguing for the people who like to make noises during the event. I respectfully turned off my gas lantern and knelt down on the desert and had felt the energy of a man who was balling next to me and felt happy that I had not lost anyone too significant this year aside from a 9 year relationship with a bird I held captive in my house who flew away to freedom. I've already come to terms with that and have moved on so the only issue I had was to feel grief for the people I have lost in my life and the people I know whom have been lost all around me and that networked pain that we go through. Respect is key and understanding what true community support is the dance we play in order to find our support systems and ultimately find strength in ourselves. It's pretty rediculous that some people close their minds and think that this whole event is about burning the shit out of anything that burns when there are guidelines to what can be burned and that their comment is also within its own context. So chose to ignore and laugh at the universe that allows this to happen and move on. My whole mantra to the temple burn et al in life is "Life is Funnier than the Sum of all of its Depressing Parts." I hope that means a lot to people who don't get how to handle their emotions. When you finally hear the echo of life and how substantial and at the same time fragile we are in this universe, what is there to do, but laugh. I got to stand in front of the Groove Bomb bus where a chant started just after the burn but quickly died down to silence, which I know is how things usually go. But I find a chant is something that can heighten our senses and cause us to be more harmonic than self-expressive if done correctly. I suppose the same could be said about silence.
If you have an issue about letting go of the angst and transformative emotional catharsis of someone close you being absent, find your own time to create something personal which you identify with them and then release that energy from you no matter how it's done... Fire, Ashes, Canoe down a stream, Message in a bottle. We learn a lot about our massive self-awareness and connection at Burning Man and how much we all still need to learn about "respect". This will be an issue for you to ponder even more than you understand. I'm still building up respectoid receptors in my head to fully encompass the compassion involved in this act. Let's hope we don't run in circles trying to describe mundane acts of crowd control when it is within ourselves to understand symbology and the super-meta connection of how it all ties the room together in our temple of the heart. Let it burn.
Max

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:30 am

i'm still bringing the bull-horn.
Frida Be You & Me

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