BRC Public Transit in 2009?

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sattelite5812
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BRC Public Transit in 2009?

Post by sattelite5812 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:05 pm

So my campmate and best friend overheard a Ranger talking about the possibility of starting up a BRC Public Transit system to accommodate the ever increasing size of the city.

On one hand, it doesn't really seem that necessary since everyone on their bike can get anywhere just as quickly (but usually have more fun if you go slowly and stop to investigate shiny things/people along the way). But on the other hand, given that the playa conditions were less than bike friendly this year (after a few failed attempts I ended up parking mine and walking), maybe it could be helpful, and even fun!

Anyone else heard anything?

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Post by Bob » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:38 pm

Buy better boots & walk.

Fucking communists.
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Post by Elderberry » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:05 pm

Haven't heard anything, but I think that would be a great idea.

JK

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Post by Isotopia » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:42 pm

So my campmate and best friend overheard a Ranger talking about the possibility of starting up a BRC Public Transit system to accommodate the ever increasing size of the city.
Must have been their first year.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:43 am

Next year, the permanent BurningManLand structure will be completed. The Man (R) will be made with stainless steel, piped through with natural gas and will burn every night. Don't miss the simulated hot springs near the Larryland hotel and the inexpensive commuter rail lines.

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Post by ygmir » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:04 am

I've also heard the LLC will be providing a cafeteria, serving only cabbage and beans, to augment the natural gas supply......piped from vacuum operated JOTS........
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Post by Boijoy » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:13 am

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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:14 am

I was told this by someone who claims to be working on this. I was excited, because he claimed that the transit would be wheelchair accessible. Unlike most art cars.

Doesn't mean that I believe it.
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Post by gyre » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:38 pm

Mass transit is part of a pedestrian city.
It's either that or more cars.
Sounds like a damn good idea to me.

I still think a more centralized shape is a good idea.
Maybe a dense rectangular or round shaped area with narrow wings for the loud camps way out there?

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Post by Elderberry » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:22 pm

Mas Transit Good. Change Shape Bad.

JK

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Post by bigbluedoggy » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:44 pm

If they should decide to implement some sort of mass transit, I imagine it would be done in phases. Next year could potentially see an Esplanade shuttle, which just makes the circuit from 2:00 to 10:00 and back across to 2:00 via the Man. If that works out, then maybe there would be an outer or mid ring service added for future years. Given how crappy the playa surface was this year, I would have been more likely to go further and see more of the city if I had known there was guaranteed transportation from one side to the other and I didn't have to rely on having a bike (and a sore butt) or walking the full distance. I don't really think its a bad idea... and who's to say that whatever form of transit vehicle is created won't be pretty trippy looking? Official art bus anyone?
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Post by sattelite5812 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:05 pm

Seems to me the most likely incarnation of such a system would involve (at least initially) art cars volunteering for routes.

It would be neat to see what shape an official BRC bus would take though! Imagine the possibilities!

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Post by BoxaRox » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:41 am

What the hell is wrong with WALKING?

If you want to RIDE everywhere, go to fucking Disneyland. Walking is part of the deal. We have a whole freaking WEEK! What is the big hurry?

Unless the buses are AIR CONDITIONED. Then I'm all for it. But only if it doesn't raise the ticket price. And they better run every fifteen minutes or less, cause I don't like to WAIT.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:38 am

There is already a thread about Jumping the Shark.
Which is what BM does every time it steps away from radical self-sufficiency.
Maybe this "Mass Transit" "mutated vehicle" will have air-conditioning too?

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Post by Elderberry » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:58 am

Hey, they are trying to limit the Mutant Vehicles, partly because of gov't land use regulations; the playa was not that bike friendly this year; the city is getting ever larger. Public transport makes good sense. More sense than sellling coffee at center camp, for example. And if you are talking about radical self-sufficiency--might as well stop ice sales too.

Some sort of public transport, in my opinion, would make more of the event available to more people.

JK

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Post by Toolmaker » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:12 pm

BoxaRox wrote:What the hell is wrong with WALKING?
Not everyone can do it.
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.

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Post by BoxaRox » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:43 pm

Sorry, but that's not a flaw of walking.

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Post by Elderberry » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:59 pm

BoxaRox wrote:Sorry, but that's not a flaw of walking.
There is nothing wrong with walking. Nobody is saying to ban walking!

Just another transportation option. It's part of the criteria for large art cars that they provide public transport now. I really can't see any downside to adding a couple of official vehicles that followed some sort of route through the city. Hop on hop off. Use them if you want, ignore them if you don't.

JK

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Post by Elorrum » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:00 pm

(preparing to duck) If playa conditions are preventing bike riding, How about if the mv people committed to gifting some of their vehicle space for a short period of time? (I'm not saying that many do not already do this) one hour perhaps, center camp to temple, temple to center camp, straight 3 - 9 or 2- 10? I haven't ridden on a mutant vehicle, tried to flag a couple down, but was not lucky enough to get a ride. Is giving rides to strangers already a condition of mv liscensing? I got where I wanted to go by foot this year, and paid more attention to the city area vs. playa due to distance. With better playa conditions, I don't think the city size would be a problem for me on a regular bike. People might be interested in designing shuttle type vehicles with mutation requirements eased if the purpose was to gift a service, rather than have an easy way for a group of friends (the number of which equals the mv capacity) to get around, or a loud mobile rave bar.

Why not allow electric bikes? Have these been abused in the past? I find them easier on the ears than gas powered go-peds, and they don't do any more harm to the ground than a regular bike.

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Post by MikeVDS » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:10 pm

Sounds like a great idea. I'm picturing mutated vehicles pulling long mutated trailers, possibly with large bike racks. There was the Persian Palace which was a big two story bus with bike racks. If people want to make a few and do some routs that'd be awesome. What else did people have in mind?
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Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:43 pm

[quote="Elorrum"]If playa conditions are preventing bike riding, How about if the mv people committed to gifting some of their vehicle space for a short period of time? [/quoteI forget if the pertinent thread is here or on tribe.net, but basically a) that's already an expectation of MVs, b) it's problematic because most MVs are older engines carrying extra weight and have significant down time on playa and c) it turns out that a many burners abuse the priveledge by jumping on and off, or insisting that it go somewhere specific as if it were a taxi service or otherwise giving the creators attitude. (Not that that's only one way...) So, I would say that expecting that a significant difference in the amount of ride provided by MVs is only going to cause you aggrivation.










And hey. Remember, some of us can't walk.
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:54 pm

jkisha wrote: Just another transportation option. It's part of the criteria for large art cars that they provide public transport now.
No it isn't. We're expected to allow participants to ride along wherever we happen to be going, up to our safe capacity and determination of your drunk and/or asshole factor. We're not busses.
This year was particularly tough on bikes; in '01 it was soft and choppy, but not this bad. I rarely went anywhere without a full load of people - but that's only 10 or 12. If you want the mutant vehicle builders to become responsible for providing the rest of you with transportation, we're gonna need a HELL of a lot more vehicles!
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Post by MikeVDS » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:58 pm

It's a bad idea for it to be a requirement, but if a group/camp wants to get together and make it a reality, that'd be an awesome gift and actually not that much work compared to many camps that go out there.
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Post by Badger » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:29 pm

Honestly, I think this whole vehicle discussion sucks. Not so much with what people are saying here as the whole shifting of discussion of mutant vehicles becoming a source of public transportation for pedestrians not prepared enough to deal with getting around BRC.

My perception here is that the re-focus is a subtle shift by the ORG for volunteers to once again be asked to augment the infrastructure of the event in order to help accommodate population numbers that are difficult (but not impossible) to sustain based on ill-conceived enlrgement of the physical area of BRC.

2008 showed many of us that the linear growth in population numbers have introduced almost exponential problems into the event. Most of them to be predicted but many of them 'unknowns' (i.e. unpredicted.) The addition of new streets this year coupled with a sizable increase in the actual size of BRC made it pretty tough for a lot of people to get around. The result - I believe - was a ghettoization of the various areas or 'neighborhoods' of Black Rock City that stymied interaction which was compounded by two pretty wicked day long dust storms during the week. Meanwhile the open playa grew considerably with little increase in the number of viewable or accessible art pieces.

I think good number of people who attended this year recognized the problem. Public conveyance by large scale art vehicles is not going to be the answer nor does it solve the larger issues related to a city layout that no longer entices pedestrian traffic. BRC is no more pedestrian friendly that L.A. is. And generally for the same reason. It's too big.
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Post by Elderberry » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:34 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
jkisha wrote: Just another transportation option. It's part of the criteria for large art cars that they provide public transport now.
No it isn't. We're expected to allow participants to ride along wherever we happen to be going, up to our safe capacity and determination of your drunk and/or asshole factor. We're not busses.
This year was particularly tough on bikes; in '01 it was soft and choppy, but not this bad. I rarely went anywhere without a full load of people - but that's only 10 or 12. If you want the mutant vehicle builders to become responsible for providing the rest of you with transportation, we're gonna need a HELL of a lot more vehicles!
Hey Captain, that's what I meant--I didn't mean to imply it was an obligation, just that their ability and willingness to give people rides on the playa was one of many criteria; and I certainly wasn't suggesting that it be mandatory for people to provide 'personal taxi' service in any way shape of form.

I like the idea of the event providing public transport along major routes and not imposing this on private event participants and their MV's.

JK

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Post by EB » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:55 pm

Yes, it's a given the Org wouldn't provide such a service and for the life of me I can't imagine any private art car wanting to "gift" it, either.

I think the number one issue many art car drivers have is the sense of entitlement many of the riders have already. Plus, who would want to volunteer for that kind of work? Essentially driving a drunk bus back and forth in a rut across the playa all night? With all of the attendant pissing/barfing/fucking? And not even the illusion for the driver of an "open road?" Can't see too many stepping forward for that one.

And to Badger's point: I agree. It's not that public transpo is a bad. It's not, it's great. But the fact that we'd even need it out there is absurd. Even for Burning Man. 50,000 isn't THAT many people. It's like suddenly manifest destiny with every burner getting a full spread, a back forty and a mule.

I'm curious to see this year's sat photos. See how loosely packed we all were.
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Post by Elorrum » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:08 pm

I just re-read the mutant vehicle bits. Seems the only instruction is to involve participation. "floating pieces of art on the playa" that doesn't really indicate mass transit, my bad. I thought that the community might work on a solution instead of the administration. How many bars do we need in the city, and could someone be inspired to build a part time shuttle instead. I have never even ridden, excuse me, participated, on an mv. I look forward to the experience. I do think that many people are inspired to bring their own vehicles for transportation, not to contribute them as "floating pieces of art." The art is an afterthought, or a licensing factor, like headlights, or brakes. I admit after not even riding the bike I built for this year, blacklighted wheels, purple chopper, I've been thinking what art, minimum cost, gas, electric, whatever, could get me a motor on the playa. There it is.

If the org wants to reduce the number of vehicles, and increase the size of the city, then I'd appreciate some honkin' water trucks, and forest fire water drops, if it is dry next year, pre-event :wink:

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Post by pignome » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:32 pm

IF Burningman is ready to have a Mass Transit then how about investing in a fleet of steamrollers and press the Playa down.


Or as many annoyed bikers said "Let Pave the Fucker"!


Really what part of "Radical Self- Reliance" are we forgetting?

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Post by Elderberry » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:43 pm

I think the definition of "Radical Self Reliance" was altered drastically when the numbers went to 40,000 plus and we needed "city planning" to layout the streets, then write and enforce rules for vehicles on the playa, complete with the required approval of government agencies.

So, actually I'm sure that adding public transport to help eliminate some of the individaul transportation that is more distructive to the playa would be welcome by the powers that be.

JK

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Post by gyre » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:04 pm

We could all chant "radical self-reliance" as a mantra while we camp in our campsite that requires the cooperation of 20,000 other people to build...

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