BRC Public Transit in 2009?

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dragonfly Jafe
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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:33 pm

Karlene wrote:Now there's the Burning Man spirit. Inject yourself into a serious conversation about transportation at the Burn with your superior attitude and underwhelming sense of humor. You know, if you can't say something positive or have an original and constructive idea, why don't you keep it to yourself.
I guess you just don't get my humor/sarcasm/irony. This is Eplaya - get over it. Besides, the OP asked about rumors - no call to action. You want a serious discussion? start your own thread!

Why is it that the people who are quick to suggest what others should do, rarely seem to do anything themselves? How many people have you given rides to on your mutant vehicle? I have gifted many hundreds with a ride on mine (point-to-point service every dawn). I've been doing this for years - you are just whining. Put up or shut up. Burningman is a Do-ocracy. If you want something, do it. Don't whine how someone else should do it for you. I got sick of walking years ago, so I made a mutant vehicle and gifted myself & others with rides.

Why don't you email the Org with this wonderful idea? Take charge! Make it happen. Make an impact. Show you are not just another whiner. I dare you. I double dare you.
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
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gyre
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Post by gyre » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:52 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:New for 2009 in Black Rock City....

The Yellow Golf Cart Program

I have an art car, so I don't need public transport.

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Closer?

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thinfilmguy
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Post by thinfilmguy » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:42 pm

I think it would be a great idea to have a public transit - maybe something that went around on like e one way, and back on f with a regular schedule. I'm one of those people who ca't walk far, and it I neve got to the other side of the event.

We were the camp that had the persian 2 story bus - the Kaz Bus - and I know it went out 5-6 times each day, and we picked up thousands over the week. We were as close to "public transit" as anyone on the playa. There was a bike rack that would hold about 10 bikes on the back, and we were constantly being chased by people saying PLEASE give us a ride. If the bus wasn't full, we did. We also did scheduled Art Tours - through the event, where people would get tickets and the bus would tour the are with someone telling about the art pieces. It was a lot of work, quiet honestly, but the guys do it every year. Keeping that bus running, hauling gas in 5 gal cans, cleaning it every day... not trivial. Most people we picked up were great and fun, but there were always jerks who would litter, dump trash, even SMOKE in the bus! How fucking rude can you get.

Lucky is the guy that owns and funds the bus - he is a true burner and does so much for the community!

Even though I had access to the bus, it was on a schedule so if I went to the other side of the city, I couldn't get too far from it for fear I would miss it and have to walk back, and that would kill my foot - so I say again, a simple, known schedule transit that ran a loop would kick ass! How about 2 of the old trams that ran around SF ZOO - they looked like luggage loaders at the airport - a small tractor and about 6 cars in tow that could hold 10 people. If it was popular, add more cars. If not, cut back.

I'm a newbee, so my opinions are of a lower quality...
Jim
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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:08 pm

We're actually more against prissiness than newness here. Although there is some potential hazing, but that's triggered by attitude, not lack of seniority. Or maybe I'm hallucinating again.

And Jafe. I snorted. I think you nailed something. fwiw
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Post by goathead » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:35 am

gaminwench wrote:Does anyone remember Draka - the amazing metal huge dragon vehicle? Her second or third year on the playa, she was used as a public transport vehicle - they'd added another 'car' or two to the original MV to add lots of seating/riding capacity, she ran a 'regular' route. It would be interesting to know what the operator's experience was...
Very fondly, she had a great crew. Lisa, her mom, Draka Sam, Danny, Akalina, dam my memory sucks I can see the faces but can't remember the names. Didn't a bunch of the Flaming Lotus Girls start as Draka's makers? I know they all worked really hard on her to keep her going.

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Post by Karlene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:06 am

Gee, Mr Dragonfly has a lot of hostility.

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:54 am

Gee, this thread has a lot of armchair psychologists.



Gee, your hair smells terrific.



Gee, I'm getting older every year.




Gee, dinosaurs arent' what they used to be.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:08 am

Hey, I know! Let's all lighten up!

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Post by Karlene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:19 am

Anyway, back to the subject, who has good ideas about public transit at Black Rock City? Good results begin with discussion and trade of ideas, sparking imaginative solutions to conditions in ANY city. No whiners here, just people moving the process forward. Everyone's experience on the playa is different. The mistake is to see things through only the lens of your experience. If some people can hike miles a day, good for them, I'm envious. Lots of people can't though. They're not whiners. Where does that word whiner come from anyway? They didn't have the loud camps situated at the end of the city until enough people asked the city to do that? Were they whiners? No....city planners in a new experience in city planning. There was no ice in the beginning, no street signs, no rangers, no nothing. All these improvements to the city were the result of city planners making the event more accessable, and available to all. Right now much of the city is inaccessable to people who are physically unable to make it those long distances on bikes or on foot. Not lazy, not whiners, unable physically to make it. Why is this such a difficult concept?
Now some can turn this discussion into a personal diatribe about how much THEY contribute and why can't everyone else just be satisfied with the way THEY percieve things, if you don't agree, you must be of a weaker sort, or something.

Anybody got any ideas about the decor of the public transportation? Maybe the same color as the public bikes?

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Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:25 am

Well, I think if there is enough 'grass roots' support for this, nothing much more can be done in this forum. It needs to be brought to the attention of the organizers. This is something that I don't think could be accomplished without their help and support--same as building the man and center camp--it has to rank right up there to work.

I'd even be willing to buy a bus pass. And hey, don't start yelling at me about the commercialism--they sell coffee and ice as a convenience, I think public transport is just another convenience I'd be willing to pay for too.


JK

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Post by Karlene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:35 am

Good idea, I'll contact them.

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Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:57 am

Karlene wrote:Good idea, I'll contact them.
I was hoping you'd say that! :wink:

JK

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Post by Karlene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:03 am

I'll write a letter to the SF office. I also know a long time ranger, I'll see if I can get any info out of him.

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Grazelda
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Post by Grazelda » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:34 am

As the city grows, so too does the need for city services. Public transport is common for even under developed communities. If you don't like RVs, don't bring one. If you don't like public transport, peddle or walk.

Smells like its time for a new class of mutant vehicle... Maybe MPT for mutant public transport? Or LSC - lazy suckers conveyance. Or HMAS - hall my ass system. Maybe let the honey wagons pull trailers of burners as they pump and dump burner poo.

But when you add/accept intentional people movers doesn't the evil face of insurance and BLM criteria become heavy? And what about the playa damage from the heavy vehicle trails? How is BMOG to anticipate that harm - and its repair - yet keep the BLM happy?

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Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:05 pm

Grazelda wrote:As the city grows, so too does the need for city services. Public transport is common for even under developed communities. If you don't like RVs, don't bring one. If you don't like public transport, peddle or walk.

Smells like its time for a new class of mutant vehicle... Maybe MPT for mutant public transport? Or LSC - lazy suckers conveyance. Or HMAS - hall my ass system. Maybe let the honey wagons pull trailers of burners as they pump and dump burner poo.

But when you add/accept intentional people movers doesn't the evil face of insurance and BLM criteria become heavy? And what about the playa damage from the heavy vehicle trails? How is BMOG to anticipate that harm - and its repair - yet keep the BLM happy?
Insurance is probably already heavy; I can't imagine that adding a rider to cover a couple move vehicles would be that exorbitant. And I can't see why public transport vehicles would cause any more damage than the other heavy vehicle traffic. In fact, being 'official' I'm sure they would be operated in a more safe and respectful manner than some of the art cars I've seen our on the playa. my .02

JK

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mikesieben
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Post by mikesieben » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:49 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:New for 2009 in Black Rock City....

The Yellow Golf Cart Program


Yellow Golf Carts will be introduced on the playa in 2009 for the first time. The idea behind the program (like those in Amsterdam and other progressive municipalities) is that designated Golf Carts are shared within the community and available for all to enjoy. We know that the proposal will bring fresh challenges, but we decided to give it a try since there has been so much whining on Eplaya about having to ride bikes or walk everywhere.

The first challenge is to set reasonable expectations on use of Yellow Golf Carts. The front-page article in the Gate Edition will contain a list of usage guidelines, such as: Only use a Yellow Golf Cart if you don't have access to another golf cart; only use it for a short period of time; and no "cruising."

This first year 1000 Yellow Golf Carts will be purchased and additional generators will be setup at multiple spots around the city to recharge the Yellow Golf Carts. The cost of the golf carts and generators will only be $5,000,000. The funds will come from a slight increase in tickets (beginning at $450 and ending at $700 in 2009).

While it won't support 50,000 participants, the program is intended to supplement the thriving golf cart culture that already exists in Black Rock City, and help meet the need of the helpless, clueless masses that now fill our fair city.

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:05 pm

jkisha wrote:they sell coffee and ice as a convenience,
Wrong. Ice is sold because the county health department (or maybe the state) insists on it. Coffee is to fund the Center Camp cafe as a meeting, performance, and discussion space.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by Elderberry » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:37 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Wrong. Ice is sold because the county health department (or maybe the state) insists on it. Coffee is to fund the Center Camp cafe as a meeting, performance, and discussion space.
Doesn't really much matter. They already have the pay for services model established regardless of the reasons; and I would not mind paying for a MV pass to help get around the ever expanding city.

JK

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Post by FilXeno » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:02 pm

Burningman is a Do-ocracy. If you want something, do it. Don't whine how someone else should do it for you. [/quote]

I concur.
I likes walking, personally. I found it no trouble to walk from 7:20 H out to the fence and back. Other than the Idea of it being wheelchair accessible, I think that the public transit is a bad Idea. It sort of seems like the shuttle from the parking lot to disney land.

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Post by motskyroonmatick » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:24 pm

IMHO- The org will never run or even facilitate an on playa mass transit system. They have no reason too. As participants at the event our comfort is our own responsibility. If getting a ride regularly is part of being comfortable then there are already established ways to do it.
If mass transit is to be a reality at BRC we the participants will have to do it. Someone will have to think that this is more than a good idea. Someone will have to decide that they can make it happen and then do it.

I'll bet there are hundreds of MV operators who would drive a route for a short time. I'm one of them. I think current MV's are where to start.
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Post by Karlene » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:27 am

I don't think the issue is comfort, I think it's accessability. If comfort was of the upmost important I don't think we'd be going to the Burn.

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Post by Toolmaker » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:11 am

Public Transportation has been available for two years now in the form of the Yellow Bike program. You may have had a probelm finding a bike since so many members of our community felt the need to repaint them, redecorate them, steam parts from them, or just put the whole fucking thing in their RV for the week so they could go home with a new bike.

2 years I watched people leaving with yellow bikes strapped to their vehicles.

Try walking or bringing a bike with lock.
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Post by Elderberry » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:21 am

Toolmaker wrote:Public Transportation has been available for two years now in the form of the Yellow Bike program. You may have had a probelm finding a bike since so many members of our community felt the need to repaint them, redecorate them, steam parts from them, or just put the whole fucking thing in their RV for the week so they could go home with a new bike.

2 years I watched people leaving with yellow bikes strapped to their vehicles.

Try walking or bringing a bike with lock.
I bring my own bike every year. But it would be nice to be able to hop on some public transport that I didn't have to peddle to get to some other part of the city/playa that I'd like to explore on foot. Especially when the playa is as bike non-friendly as it was this past year.

Yes yellow bikes are also a good idea if used properly.

Yes motorized public transportation is also a good idea.

Yes bringing your own bike is a good idea.

Yes walking is a good idea.

They are all good ideas, let's put to use all the good ideas we have!

JK

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:34 am

There was pubic transport to Fly Springs in ? '97.
But that doesn't mean it should be a fait accompli. We need to agree on whether it really is in the spirit of BM to have such a thing.
There are many other elements of infrastructure that could have been provided already, in the interest of accessibility, but were gunned down in the name of radical self-reliance.

But there's nothing wrong with buying an old amusement park tram, mutating it and keeping a regular schedule on the Esplanade? Nobody has done this yet, why not Karlene? :)

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Post by Karlene » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:54 pm

yeah...I like it.

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Post by EB » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:42 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote: But there's nothing wrong with buying an old amusement park tram, mutating it and keeping a regular schedule on the Esplanade? Nobody has done this yet, why not?
Image
Irony. You're soaking in it.

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Post by motskyroonmatick » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:29 pm

EB wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote: But there's nothing wrong with buying an old amusement park tram, mutating it and keeping a regular schedule on the Esplanade? Nobody has done this yet, why not?
Image
Chernobyl fall out area?
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Post by gyre » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:04 pm

Is it?
I thought that looked familiar.

Be perfect for nevada if it is.

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:39 am

Karlene wrote:yeah...I like it.
Thank you for volunteering. ;)

http://www.italintl.com/
http://www.intermarkridegroup.com/
http://www.specialtyvehicles.com/

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Post by Elderberry » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:00 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:
Karlene wrote:yeah...I like it.
Thank you for volunteering. ;)

http://www.italintl.com/
http://www.intermarkridegroup.com/
http://www.specialtyvehicles.com/
This looks like it would be great; and it's been marked down to $45,000.00; then there would be shipping and getting it to the playa. :shock:

http://www.intermarkridegroup.com/used- ... -t989.html

JK

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