Yes, but what can we DO about the police presence?

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:56 pm

Token wrote:I actually like greater enforcement of drug laws. I hate the fucktards puking all over the art car "cuz I just took some wicked shrooms bra", as if their eniteled little asses can justify shit with drug use.

Fuck em and let them pay the stupid tax.
Yes.
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Post by booster » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:08 pm

Oh and pleeeeez respect the fact that the purpose of this thread is to discuss ideas of what to DO about the police presence. Somehow we degenerated into the same tired arguments I've read on other posts.

If you want to bash druggies, or argue that the LEOs are acceptable, do so on a different thread. There are dozens of others that offer the opportunity for that kind of discussion.

This thread is specifically for people that feel the oppression and want to make a change.

Thanks for shining your Light and making my city so Bright. I love each and every one of you, even you Dobbisano.

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Roberto Dobbisano
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Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:17 pm

oh go fuck yourself.

your hippy dippy yoga yoda mind melt tricks are useless on me, i eat vegans for lunch, and spit msg into my coffee.

take your agenda and shove it up your cause, you get what you deserve and if you piss people off, they will piss on you.

i know, i've pissed alot of people off over the years and have had to learn the hard way.

Unless you are into the whole school of golden showers, i suggest you keep your wonderful little performance art to yourself, or at least suffer the consequences gladly, and singularly.

dont try to get other stupids to follow you off the cliff, mr. lemming.
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:20 pm

(((Roberto)))
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Roberto Dobbisano
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Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:25 pm

(((CRYPTO!)))


you hit him high, i'll hit him low.
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TomServo
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Re: Yes, but what can we DO about the police presence?

Post by TomServo » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:08 pm

[quote="booster"]In hopes of diverting from the previous post "The Police Can Have BRC" to a more constructive vein, I've started this thread in hopes of generating ideas of influencing the current situation, which I think most would agree feels very oppressive. Let us focus here on what we can DO not merely accepting what IS.

I run a good-sized theme camp at BM and I've been struggling with the issue of the police presence at this year BM where it seemed more intense than previous years. Two of my peeps got ticketed for smoking in their tents (however they were camped next to the street and so lighter flashes could be clearly witnessed from the outside). Two others were profiled and foolishly allowed their persons to be searched without a warrant and were subsequently arrested for possession of ecstasy. And I heard at least a dozen similar stories from other camp leaders.

Clearly, I cannot argue with jaded folks like Unjonharley that state the obvious, “cops are part of the BM experienceâ€
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:18 pm

booster wrote:Oh and pleeeeez respect the fact that the purpose of this thread is to discuss ideas of what to DO about the police presence. Somehow we degenerated into the same tired arguments I've read on other posts.
That's because you're spewing the same stupid shit as on the other thread.
There is NOTHING you can do about police presence. Any public gathering of a certain size requires a certain amount of law enforcement presence. That's the law.
What you can't get through your stoned head is that the only way you can even hope to have the cops lighten up is to QUIT BREAKING THE LAW.

I've met lots of cops at Burning Man. Every one of them has been really cool. One told me "This is like a vacation for us... we do less here all week than we do in one night in Reno." One stopped me while I was driving my Land Yacht... he wanted to see my Mutant Vehicle license papers... I showed them... he said "OK thanks" and I was cruising again. Another stopped me just to give me some "Junior Boater Program" schwag like a keychain and a whistle. Another hung out with me at the Bummer in '08 one morning, had me take his picture with it, and told me all about where the best local places to go when BM isn't going on.

I wasn't breaking any laws, and they had no issues with me. Is a light going on over there yet?


Burning man is not a free drug use zone. Your threads keep drifting and becoming ridiculous because they are moot points to begin with.
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Post by TomServo » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:29 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
booster wrote:Oh and pleeeeez respect the fact that the purpose of this thread is to discuss ideas of what to DO about the police presence. Somehow we degenerated into the same tired arguments I've read on other posts.
That's because you're spewing the same stupid shit as on the other thread.
There is NOTHING you can do about police presence. Any public gathering of a certain size requires a certain amount of law enforcement presence. That's the law.
What you can't get through your stoned head is that the only way you can even hope to have the cops lighten up is to QUIT BREAKING THE LAW.

I've met lots of cops at Burning Man. Every one of them has been really cool. One told me "This is like a vacation for us... we do less here all week than we do in one night in Reno." One stopped me while I was driving my Land Yacht... he wanted to see my Mutant Vehicle license papers... I showed them... he said "OK thanks" and I was cruising again. Another stopped me just to give me some "Junior Boater Program" schwag like a keychain and a whistle. Another hung out with me at the Bummer in '08 one morning, had me take his picture with it, and told me all about where the best local places to go when BM isn't going on.

I wasn't breaking any laws, and they had no issues with me. Is a light going on over there yet?


Burning man is not a free drug use zone. Your threads keep drifting and becoming ridiculous because they are moot points to begin with.
It could be misinformation..but I heard is a 5 to 7 year waiting list for the cops to get a burning man gig. I used to hate em, until I started driving trucks. To be sure, there are a lot of asshole cops...but I don't mind them so much.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by booster » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:10 am

Sigh...

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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:21 am

ditto.
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Post by spectabillis » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:29 am

thirded

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Post by booster » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:37 am

Roberto Dobbisano wrote:
your hippy dippy yoga yoda mind melt tricks are useless on me, i eat vegans for lunch, and spit msg into my coffee.
LOL! That's fucking awesome!

You're like a big ol' crusty teddy bear aren't you? The kind of guy that tells you to fuck off while he's taking a bullet for you.

And as much as I appreciate your sentiments, just try on the idea that you may not be as absolutely right on every single thing as you might think. It's possible, however slight, that you may be surprised by something you initially thought was stupid.

Respect to your wisdom, I'm just sayin'... there's room for considerate discourse here.

Let me ask you this, do you appreciate it when other drivers signal you with their headlights that a speed trap is up ahead? Do you do the same for others?

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Roberto Dobbisano
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Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:11 am

i offer up sound advice......dont be stupid, and try to behave as you would normally do in defaultia as far as the law is concerned.

do what thou will....try not to get arrested at the same time....


it is plain common horse sense....that is all.


i understand where you are coming from.....i question the motive and intention and potential actions you proclaim.
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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Post by Sham » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:19 am

Booster, please understand that with age comes wisdom. If you see a hornet's nest in your travels, please do not hit it with a baseball bat in an effort to get rid of it. If you come home at the end of the day and find that your house was broken into and your stuff stolen, call the police and they will help you. Think of the way you would treat the police when they come to your door to help you. No goofy sounds, silly gestures or demands that they HAVE to help you because "I pay your salary"!

I am trying to politely and respectfully tell you not to antagonize the police at BM or any place. You will only draw attention to yourself and cause yourself problems. If this does not makes sense to you now, it will when you get older.

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brcprincess
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Post by brcprincess » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:02 am

Why are there so many threads about the cops? They barely factored into my impression of this year. There were so many amazing incredible and free moments to be had...

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goathead
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Post by goathead » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:45 am

Because some people get goofy, and it is always hard to admit when you have been stupid and get caught.

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Post by spectabillis » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:38 am

Roberto Dobbisano wrote:i offer up sound advice......dont be stupid, and try to behave as you would normally do in defaultia as far as the law is concerned.
simultaneously practical, yet invariably lethal to what bman was about. your 'defaultia' is exactly what we escaped, and quite successfully, while giving certain means of creativity the foundation needed to establish things.


r.i.p. that spirit, and thank you for the continued work to replace it with an inferior culture and event.

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Post by goathead » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:02 am

Maybe part of the problem is being able to hold them accountable.
While not screwing yourself.

Do it BEFORE/AFTER you leave the playa.
Let them know what you think.
What the problems are.


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Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:03 am

booster wrote: Let me ask you this, do you appreciate it when other drivers signal you with their headlights that a speed trap is up ahead? Do you do the same for others?
That's another perfect example... yes of course it's nice to know when you're about to hit a speed trap, but I drive a lot, in everything from semi trucks to sports cars, and the way I keep my record clean is by generally NOT speeding.

When I was younger, I got in a LOT of trouble with the cops... with age I finally figured out that if you simply don't do illegal things, you don't get in so much trouble.
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Grazelda
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Re: Yes, but what can we DO about the police presence?

Post by Grazelda » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:47 am

This is just silly and not based in reality.

[quote="booster"]- Start a camp of BRC “crime reportersâ€

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Post by marcgorcey » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:58 am

Awesome post Grazelda...

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Post by Boijoy » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:09 am

:lol: I thought Grazelda was saying " Bud Light" .. I need more coffee.
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:51 am

Burningman is what you can get away with.

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:06 am

spec i think you miss my point.

if you hassle the cops in defaultia, then be my guest....the results will most likely be the same.


burningman is a creative hot bed for other reasons besides flaunting of laws.


it is still the state of nevada, in the US, and we can never escape that, but instead learn to do what we do with minimum intrusion by respecting what they have to do.


it is a win win situation, not a degradation of concept or spirit.


you can break the law anywhere, anytime if you are so inclined.
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Post by stargeezer » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:57 am

booster wrote:Let me ask you this, do you appreciate it when other drivers signal you with their headlights that a speed trap is up ahead? Do you do the same for others?
Booster:

The answer is right in front of you, but you don't want to see it.

The reason cops set up speed traps is because too large a percentage of the traffic is speeding, and it is there job to control this. Areas where there is very little traffic or all are obeying the law never have speed traps.

The same applies to BM. If you really want to reduce the number of cops present, do not bring the illegal substances to BRC. All considered, the cops are pretty tolerant of behavior with one big exception, so if you eliminate the exception, the presence of LEO will be reduced.

Now the problem is that you will have more difficulty convincing people not to bring the illegal substances as you are having trying to convince them to alert others of LEOs presence, those that are doing nothing wrong will not want to waste their precious time, and those that need to be warned will not want to attract attention.

The bottom line is be smart and take care of yourself, and expect others to do the same.
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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:30 am

A: Cancel BM (that would end the police presence for sure)
B: Hold it "guerilla-style"at a secret undisclosed location and somehow prevent the Authorities from discovering it.
C: Start a political party that successfully seizes control of the Nevada State Legislature and the Federal House & Senate, and change the laws.

Other than that, LEO's are a given. And given that, they will do their jobs if you force them to. So don't force them. Be the willow, and avoid the wind.

As far as reducing them, how about "Starve the Police State, don't be stupid & get busted"

Now Under-Covers are another matter. I propose a policy of everyone routinely photographing any stranger who asks them to trade/supply/ingest drugs. Bonus points for a camp that can gather/collate/post these photos on a "Narc" board or some such.
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Post by EspressoDude » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:52 am

if ya gonna try and light a cigar or something, don't use a flik flik flik lighter, use a flame effect or blow torch or candle that is always on.

or in a tent with a strobe light always on......flash/flash/flash/flash
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Post by booster » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:26 am

I like that dragonfly. The NARC photo board. But logisitcally it feels complex i.e. polaroids req'd, having a camera ready when needed, etc.

Thanks for your other suggestions, although they don't look too pretty and they seem a little defeatist (A) and resource prohibitive (B and C).

There's a clever and fun little way to challenge and out wit the LEOs out there and regain our sense of pride beholden to our vision, I just don't know what it is. Not many seem too keen on the whistle idea but then most of those haven't really respected the intent of the discussion.

It needs to be non-confrontational, legal (obviously), easy to spread, fun, and cooperative (cooperation is BRC's greatest asset, we do community well). The NARC board is on the right track.

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Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:34 am

EspressoDude wrote:Espresso for a Buzz
no foo-foo drinks; just naked Espresso
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If I put Kahlua and/or Irish whiskey and/or Bailey's into it, does that count as foo-foo?
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Post by booster » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:39 am

Thinking about the NARC aspect, what if we set up a soapbox kinda booth near center camp where NARCs could come and publicly confess their coercion with a megaphone. Self-identify themselves and item by item list off what they did (without specifying names, I suppose that becomes a legal matter then).

I think many of these peeps probably make the decision to join LEO out of fear, in the moment, and would appreciate an opportunity to repudiate their allegiance to the community and regain their self-respect.

And when they've confessed, it's up to us to truly forgive and accept them back with open arms.

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