post what you didn't like about 2011 here

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junglesmacks
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by junglesmacks » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:22 am

So did tie dyed shirts and beer bellies.. a la 1980 something.. but I didn't bitch about neither of yours, now did I?
Bob wrote:Use of the term "BMorg" went out with the burnman-list, something I don't regret about 2011.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by BurnerKitten » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:19 am

penrose wrote:Peeve 1:
On 8:30 between A and B was a huge "anonymous" camp of luxury RVs housing people who'd flown in and had everything catered, from food to showers to an on-the-spot costume seamstress. There was even a servants quarters in this faux little paradise, in that the paid workers didn't live with and weren't supposed to fraternize with the customers. How they could do this without greasing some of the BMorg's dirty palms I don't know. (I know there were several east coast CEOs and at least one state governor's wife, and I heard at least one Hollywood scumbag name being dropped as well.) Another one across 8:30 from there, luxury RVs, a rack of dozens of identical bikes, etc. had a big party Sunday night, in hindsight I regret not crashing it to see what the fuckers were up to.
Sounds like you are talking about my camp, what is it about it that rubbed you the wrong way so much? You seem pretty angry about it the whole thing.

I can give you some more context and details about it, since you seem to be making a few assumptions.

It was set up by a CEO of a tech company, who is a long-time burner. For a long time he's been wanting to do a camp like this, and he finally organized it and set it up and invited a bunch of his friends to join him at the camp, most of whom (including myself) were burning man virgins. And yeah, several of us are Entrepreneurs/CEOs or from Hollywood in the default world. None of us were 'customers' just a loose group of friends, who mostly met via social media.

He and a few others did fly in, but most of us drove. I personally would love to try flying in sometime, as I hear that the view of BRC from the sky is amazing.
He did have his crew drive in all of the stuff and build up the camp, and break it down. They didnt really have a role during the week though. I can understand people having a problem with this, and I can agree that it is a bit against the spirit, but it is what it is. However, by 'catered food' it just meant they brought all the food in, every day the participants cooked for themselves. And actually most of the luxury RVs were for the crew, since most of them were not burners and orginally were coming for a 'job', the organizer didnt think it would be cool to *make* them camp, so hooked them up with these nice RVs. They were also free to hang and party with us, which they did, and by the end it sounds like most people were converted into burners themselves. (and btw, there was no hired "costume seamstress", that was one of the participants).

And yeah he ended up providing the camp with some cool goodies, like the stable of bikes, so we didn't have to bring them unless we were bringing a special art bike. Many of the virgin burners probably would not have brought bikes Im guessing otherwise, and we ended up feeling like a bike gang as we roamed around the playa which was kinda neat. Our organizer seemed to get a ton of pleasure out of providing for us and being the one to introduce us to Burning Man, and I really appreciate the work and though he put into organizing the camp. This ended being one of the most amazing experiences in my life.

You should have come by and crashed one of our parties, you would have been welcome. Had several other people crash and met some of the coolest people that way. Would have loved to hear you share what your favorite experiences were or take us to some cool piece of art we missed.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by FireTommy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:56 am

[quote]You should have come by and crashed one of our parties, you would have been welcome. Had several other people crash and met some of the coolest people that way. Would have loved to hear you share what your favorite experiences were or take us to some cool piece of art we missed.[/quote] It's very good to hear it from your perspective. I met somebody who told me he was frog-marched out of your camp by "Bouncers", though... after inviting himself to your bar
....like a dingo in a maternity ward....

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Bob » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:18 am

In '97 we built a parking lot about a half mile from the site, with the intention of having day trippers park and tour the place, or for campers who might chose to park and walk their stuff in. Great idea, I thought, but AFAIK it didn't get any use by campers.

Argh, wilderness.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Hoolie » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:25 am

BurnerKitten wrote:
penrose wrote:Peeve 1:
On 8:30 between A and B was a huge "anonymous" camp of luxury RVs housing people who'd flown in and had everything catered, from food to showers to an on-the-spot costume seamstress. There was even a servants quarters in this faux little paradise, in that the paid workers didn't live with and weren't supposed to fraternize with the customers. How they could do this without greasing some of the BMorg's dirty palms I don't know. (I know there were several east coast CEOs and at least one state governor's wife, and I heard at least one Hollywood scumbag name being dropped as well.) Another one across 8:30 from there, luxury RVs, a rack of dozens of identical bikes, etc. had a big party Sunday night, in hindsight I regret not crashing it to see what the fuckers were up to.
Sounds like you are talking about my camp, what is it about it that rubbed you the wrong way so much?
I'll take a stab at this. It seems like your camp is bringing social class into what was once a classless society. Just more of the default world creeping in. Imagine if this became the norm, where you had two types of people attending Burning Man: the vacationers and the employees, the privileged class and servile class. Black Rock City would resemble a vacation resort instead of an exercise in "radical self-reliance." If that is the natural evolution of the event, so be it. But don't be surprised if people lament this change. It is a stark contrast to bygone years, where pretty much everyone seemed to be on equal footing, where inclusive superseded exclusive, and participants built the city with their own blood, sweat, and tears.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Boijoy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:34 am

BurnerKitten wrote:
penrose wrote:Peeve 1:
On 8:30 between A and B was a huge "anonymous" camp of luxury RVs housing people who'd flown in and had everything catered, from food to showers to an on-the-spot costume seamstress. There was even a servants quarters in this faux little paradise, in that the paid workers didn't live with and weren't supposed to fraternize with the customers. How they could do this without greasing some of the BMorg's dirty palms I don't know. (I know there were several east coast CEOs and at least one state governor's wife, and I heard at least one Hollywood scumbag name being dropped as well.) Another one across 8:30 from there, luxury RVs, a rack of dozens of identical bikes, etc. had a big party Sunday night, in hindsight I regret not crashing it to see what the fuckers were up to.
Sounds like you are talking about my camp, what is it about it that rubbed you the wrong way so much? You seem pretty angry about it the whole thing.

I can give you some more context and details about it, since you seem to be making a few assumptions.

It was set up by a CEO of a tech company, who is a long-time burner. For a long time he's been wanting to do a camp like this, and he finally organized it and set it up and invited a bunch of his friends to join him at the camp, most of whom (including myself) were burning man virgins. And yeah, several of us are Entrepreneurs/CEOs or from Hollywood in the default world. None of us were 'customers' just a loose group of friends, who mostly met via social media.

He and a few others did fly in, but most of us drove. I personally would love to try flying in sometime, as I hear that the view of BRC from the sky is amazing.
He did have his crew drive in all of the stuff and build up the camp, and break it down. They didnt really have a role during the week though. I can understand people having a problem with this, and I can agree that it is a bit against the spirit, but it is what it is. However, by 'catered food' it just meant they brought all the food in, every day the participants cooked for themselves. And actually most of the luxury RVs were for the crew, since most of them were not burners and orginally were coming for a 'job', the organizer didnt think it would be cool to *make* them camp, so hooked them up with these nice RVs. They were also free to hang and party with us, which they did, and by the end it sounds like most people were converted into burners themselves. (and btw, there was no hired "costume seamstress", that was one of the participants).

And yeah he ended up providing the camp with some cool goodies, like the stable of bikes, so we didn't have to bring them unless we were bringing a special art bike. Many of the virgin burners probably would not have brought bikes Im guessing otherwise, and we ended up feeling like a bike gang as we roamed around the playa which was kinda neat. Our organizer seemed to get a ton of pleasure out of providing for us and being the one to introduce us to Burning Man, and I really appreciate the work and though he put into organizing the camp. This ended being one of the most amazing experiences in my life.

You should have come by and crashed one of our parties, you would have been welcome. Had several other people crash and met some of the coolest people that way. Would have loved to hear you share what your favorite experiences were or take us to some cool piece of art we missed.

How do I join YOUR camp?? :D
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by BurnerKitten » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:44 am

Hoolie wrote: I'll take a stab at this. It seems like your camp is bringing social class into what was once a classless society. Just more of the default world creeping in. Imagine if this became the norm, where you had two types of people attending Burning Man: the vacationers and the employees, the privileged class and servile class. Black Rock City would resemble a vacation resort instead of an exercise in "radical self-reliance." If that is the natural evolution of the event, so be it. But don't be surprised if people lament this change. It is a stark contrast to bygone years, where pretty much everyone seemed to be on equal footing, where inclusive superseded exclusive, and participants built the city with their own blood, sweat, and tears.
That makes a lot of sense to me, thanks for the insight, especially your point about "radical self-reliance."

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by bradtem » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:02 pm

That camp does demonstrate the existence of class, but it's been that way for a long time. There are people who come in RVs, some spending as much as $10,000 for the trip and others who show up with a hitched ride and an old tent spending a few hundred on their experience. There are people who fund and build huge camps and projects -- in the case of 2001's Emerald City reportedly $100,000 -- and those who just find a place to pitch a tent. There are those who come from overseas and those who drove from Reno. On the other hand, I've seen billionaires show up with just a tent and supplies and crash where they found space.

You won't eliminate class from the playa so easily. However, you can try to discourage the display of it, which in effect you are doing in this thread.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by headquarters » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:06 pm

bradtem wrote:That camp does demonstrate the existence of class, but it's been that way for a long time. There are people who come in RVs, some spending as much as $10,000 for the trip and others who show up with a hitched ride and an old tent spending a few hundred on their experience. There are people who fund and build huge camps and projects -- in the case of 2001's Emerald City reportedly $100,000 -- and those who just find a place to pitch a tent. There are those who come from overseas and those who drove from Reno. On the other hand, I've seen billionaires show up with just a tent and supplies and crash where they found space.

You won't eliminate class from the playa so easily. However, you can try to discourage the display of it, which in effect you are doing in this thread.

I believe the difference in this example though is that you mention the amount people spend, however all those people choose to come and spend their vacations at BM. Some had many resources some had very little, yet they all made the same choice to spend their time in BRC. I have always gotten a kick out of the fact that it's the one place where everyone (LEO's excluded, porta potty crew) where everyone was on vacation. Having employees who may or may not have wanted to come but instead have been paid to come start to deteriorate that.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by bradhenrypottery » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:07 pm

I really wasn't a fan of all the smoking. Trying to dance with my sweety there were piles of smokers on the dance floor. In line at center camp waiting for coffee, smokers. Chilling and relaxing at center camp watching some beautiful yoga, smokers. Laying on a blanket waiting for temple to burn, smokers. I didn't say anything because it's their right to smoke where they want. It just didn't add any beauty to my playa experience. My mom died of lung cancer from smoking. On her death bed she said, "if I had known smoking was going to do this to me I never would have started. I don't want to die."
I don't see smoking as the real problem. People usually don't pick up bad habits because they like them. Usually the bad habits are picked up as a reaction to something missing in their life or to make their life easier for them to deal with. So, I just try to be compassionate.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by robbidobbs » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:08 pm

Low point: bliss burner friend showing up at my camp expecting entirely too much from me.
Good point: meeting Ranger Silver Hair who arbitrated the whole situation.

BTW trilobyte: So sorry that my personal vehicle that I drive 12 hours a day out there delivering tp, supplies and volunteers doesn't meet with your expectations for the DPW Parade. Fuck off. And we were given specific instructions pre-parade not to rape and pillage. Those ass-munches that were hustling you for booze probably didn't have DPW logos on, or if they did, you should have submitted a complaint to one of the red-shirts.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Hoolie » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:13 pm

bradtem wrote:That camp does demonstrate the existence of class, but it's been that way for a long time. There are people who come in RVs, some spending as much as $10,000 for the trip and others who show up with a hitched ride and an old tent spending a few hundred on their experience. There are people who fund and build huge camps and projects -- in the case of 2001's Emerald City reportedly $100,000 -- and those who just find a place to pitch a tent. There are those who come from overseas and those who drove from Reno. On the other hand, I've seen billionaires show up with just a tent and supplies and crash where they found space.

You won't eliminate class from the playa so easily. However, you can try to discourage the display of it, which in effect you are doing in this thread.
People of varying means have always been present at the event, though it's not always obvious who is who, as you pointed out. But bringing an employer/employee element to BRC is a huge jump into a more established class system.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Frostbite » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:14 pm

Alturas, CA:

On Sunday afternoon, I pulled into the local commercial fueling station. These are unattended stations that you need a commercial fuel account to use. This is primarily where semi's and work trucks fuel. I was in a white cargo van, wearing non-burner clothes. Basically looked like I was coming from a job site. While I was there, the place filled up with 20-something burners who weren't fueling, but using the place to hang out. They filled every fueling spot. I mentioned to a few that they needed an account to fuel there, but they didn't care, as they were only milling about.

To me, it seemed very discourteous to the local community. Any trucks that tried to pull in would be SOL without encouraging them to leave. I hate to see the event get a bad rap with the surrounding towns because of a minority of discourteous burners.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by bradtem » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Hate to say it but there have been workers in camps for a long time. A fair number of camps, including one of the most hippie egalitarian I know of, have systems where people do things like work kitchen in exchange for tickets and transport to the playa. And the same has been said of the official volunteer system. The people get time off and enjoy some of the event, but they are also working it.

This is not quite as overt as bringing a personal staff along. But you're going to see more of that with time. Face it, burning man is one of the world's great experiences, and as people come to believe that they will seek ways to come do it in comfort and style, cost be damned, and there is no easy way to stop it. You've been that person, probably, if you ever did tourism in the developing world, as you went around spending amounts that are fortunes to the locals but modest costs for you. It's no fun to realize you are the poor local, I guess. You'll start seeing Burning Man showing up on bucket lists if it hasn't already.

Perversely, this is a result of an explicit decision by BMOrg that holding the event in a remote and harsh location makes sure those who come are serious about it. It slows growth and keeps out fratboy weekenders who want to see tits. And while it makes all those of ordinary income make extraordinary effort to go, it also means there is a market for the very wealthy to go in style, especially when we have an airport that lets you fly over the entry and exodus lines.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Hoolie » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:28 pm

BurnerKitten wrote:
Hoolie wrote: I'll take a stab at this. It seems like your camp is bringing social class into what was once a classless society. Just more of the default world creeping in. Imagine if this became the norm, where you had two types of people attending Burning Man: the vacationers and the employees, the privileged class and servile class. Black Rock City would resemble a vacation resort instead of an exercise in "radical self-reliance." If that is the natural evolution of the event, so be it. But don't be surprised if people lament this change. It is a stark contrast to bygone years, where pretty much everyone seemed to be on equal footing, where inclusive superseded exclusive, and participants built the city with their own blood, sweat, and tears.
That makes a lot of sense to me, thanks for the insight, especially your point about "radical self-reliance."
No worries. I will say that you seem quite nice and open-minded, so I'd say that's a pretty positive reflection on your camp. I'm glad the event was such a great experience for you.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by trilobyte » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:37 pm

robbidobbs wrote:BTW trilobyte: So sorry that my personal vehicle that I drive 12 hours a day out there delivering tp, supplies and volunteers doesn't meet with your expectations for the DPW Parade. Fuck off.
As I had said in my post, that wasn't really a problem in my book, because of all the infrastructure work that the vehicles are being used to do. The problem is the "rape and pillage" thing. The fact that you have to give those instructions to people is bad enough (and sign that it may be time to clean house), but even worse is that the team isn't able to keep themselves in check. Those few ass-munches make the whole group look bad.

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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by illy dilly » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:04 pm

bluesbob wrote:I'm sorry to say....but if Burning Man ever dies it will be the 20-somethings who killed it, primarily young men. (I use the word "men" very loosely) They show up by the thousands with no clue about principles and community.
Being of the younger 20's Male demographic I have to chime in here.
I do agree that there is a problem with unprepared weekenders coming into the city expecting too much and contributing too little. But to wrap it up that it is us "20 something males" that are the problem is pretty fucked up. I would have to say that it is the WEEKENDERS in general that cause most problems. And why is it the young men? Are the young unprepared young girls considered to be acceptable since some creepy old man will swoop them up and take care of them all week? If it is the 20 year old guys that are going to kill Burning Man, who would you rather have carry it on?

This is all not say that I don't agree with you to an extent. There are Frat Boys and Weekends of all ages that are a strain on the community. The most irresponsible person I met on the playa this year was was 32 years old. He had to be sent to medical twice for letting him self get so dehydrated that he would get so sick he wouldn't stop puking and convulsing. To say
bluesbob wrote: if Burning Man ever dies it will be the 20-somethings who killed it
is screwed up.

Something was definitely amiss this year. The over all vibe and feel of the entire event seemed a little off. Even the more experienced burners that we would meet standing in line at the porta pots (has always been one of my favorite places to meet folks, everyone is humble in line for the porta pots) seemed stand offish.
The fact that people are sneaking into other folks tents to steel and even nap is fucked up. The amount of theft that I've heard about is fucked up. The old timers looking down on newbies for being 20 and still figuring out the learning curve is fucked up.

Could it not be said that "If Burning Man ever dies its because old timers couldn't be bothered to teach the new folks the best way to do it"
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Eric » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:20 pm

illy dilly wrote:Something was definitely amiss this year. The over all vibe and feel of the entire event seemed a little off. Even the more experienced burners that we would meet standing in line at the porta pots (has always been one of my favorite places to meet folks, everyone is humble in line for the porta pots) seemed stand offish.
I was talking with Adrian (BRC Weekly publisher) about this very thing and I think he summed it up perfectly: small towns tend to be friendly & open, cities tend to be more stand-offish. As BRC grows into a larger city the tendency to become more impersonal is going to continue. It sucks and the only way to change it is to make sure that your attitude doesn't go down the same path. Hell, I was having trouble myself sometimes during the week dealing with people- I just have to be aware of it and try to avoid it in the future.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by gekko59 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:34 pm

[quote="illy dilly"][quote="bluesbob"]And why is it the young men? [/quote]

Testosterone. Higher in young men than older men, far less present in young/old women. Thus, more aggression paired with lack of experience or preparedness. Also less willingness to heed what it's all about, and more inclination to make it what the individual wants with almost no regard for anyone else, to the point of harm to others.

Not saying that's characteristic of all young men, nor am I saying older people of any gender lack it. Just that it's more prevalent, 'specially when you get packs of younger males together. The effects of combined testosterone exceeds the sum of the individual instances.

That said, I have no opinion regarding whether young men will be the death of BMan. 2011 is my baseline experience and it seemed just fine to me.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by The CO » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:35 pm

illy dilly wrote:The old timers looking down on newbies for being 20 and still figuring out the learning curve is fucked up.

Could it not be said that "If Burning Man ever dies its because old timers couldn't be bothered to teach the new folks the best way to do it"
Well stated. It's not an age or experience thing. It's about people that are too stupid to read the survival guide & other sources.

The ages of the birgins in our camp this year ranged from 17-45ish. But every one of them knew how to survive & thrive out there, because we boot camp the people joining M*A*S*H for months beforehand. We (the jaded old farts) have a civic duty to provide knowledge to the uninformed (birgins, newbs, whatever you call them). I spent an hour and brought in people from my fire conclave to help teach a newbie spinner how to do it right. He had been spinning for over a year, but there was a vast array of knowledge he was lacking. We gave him contacts and resources in his area of Default World, showed him how to be safer & more fuel-efficient and then spun with him.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by illy dilly » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:49 pm

Thank you The Co and Eric for seeing where it that I am coming from.
The Geco, I totally agree with what it is that you are saying. Especially when you add abundant amounts of booze and hot young gals into the mix.

I'm not going to say that there isn't an issue with Frat boys on the playa. There really is, and I honestly really wish they wouldn't show up. But, you add lots of booze, hot girls, and a "do what you want" environment and even NOT frat boys will get a bit surly at times. Can't be helped. And honestly, getting a bunch of young guys together, getting drunk and getting surly can be a damned good time. But the issues arises when it spills over into other peoples burns and creates a bad time, or these people start to disrespect others. That is the issue. But to wrap it up and blame 20 year old males for all the problems on the playa is jacked up.
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by atomicray » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:50 pm

I am prepping for my first hands on event, spending my time watching via the Ustream thus far.

There are some mighty interesting thoughts flying around this thread.

I hope I get to comment even though I did not go... :shock:

1. Old vs Young...this is a funny one, the older crowd having issues with the younger crowd "that rock and roll is the work of satan!" lol...seriously though, it will always be that way..."back in the old days..."...not much to be done here as this is the natural progression of maturity and the stages of regret.

2. Looking for a fight...this is curious...so in the '90s there were no macho types looking to express their immature opinions? I am on board with you on this subject...but I have seen plenty of dirty hippie fights going back to the late '70s...but roving gangs of toughs and fratboys does seem to be an issue. I am not sure how you would fix this though. It is what ruined Mardi Gras...it went from being a street party to a street frat party, and there is a huge difference. So many actual fist fights for a handful of cheese beads ($1-2 worth) or a float cup...my 10yr old daughter was pushed down and stepped on by a 20 something guy before I could close the distance to reach her...he went to hospital with a ruptured testicle and a broken nose...I had a legal mess to clear up but was never indited as he had an outstanding warrant for a DUI...in the end you guys are much more tolerant than I...this is giving me cause to pause, as I do not want to go to jail over some 20 something, or any age douche bag for that matter.

Is mace legal in Nevada? What might be interesting, I could claim performance art?

3. Class privilege...this is the most curious element for me...if ever there was a place where the people should be non concerned with what the next person has it is Burning Man...do you really think Larry is living in a pup tent ($20 million dollars made from ticket sales...that is a few steps up the class ladder I would think)...in the land of art, artists, and those that appreciate the same who cares if you hitchhiked in or if that guy flew in? Sounds like a blend of bright green jealousy and searing red envy...me, I would welcome a few comforts in a toxic environment...I lived in toxic and dangerous environments and I can promise you that a shower, AC, and a comfy bed is a luxury that exceeds the supposed value until you are in that toxic situation. But to complain that someone has more, has comfort, or has workers is a bit extreme to me.

If the idea of rabid independence is a focus then there should be no theme camps, no camps, no groups, and no organized anything...just many thousands of people on their own in a group setting...but that is not the case...

*****

As I noted it is all interesting.

The first two points of young vs old demographics and all that this includes...modern types of music, the increased volume and endurance of the same, as well as the greedy nature of the seemingly overtly selfish types is a serious issue even for the young...not everyone wants to fight, certainly no wants to be abused or raped...and the idea of herds of angry young turks demanding a hand out, taking what they want, etc.

It should be noted that being a greedy, spiteful, asshole, social cockroach is not a badge only worn by the young...the majority of these types do age, and usually not age well like a fine wine but rather like milk...getting more and more rotten.

*****

These stories of woe do not fall on deaf ears...I would not welcome the roaches upon the playa and most certainly not on my person, my family, or our camp.

The whole idea of gifting, giving before being asked...or begged...is still a stretch for me. I am charitable but not to a fault...abuse my wife/kid and I will hurt you...steal my stuff and I catch you, we will have more than words...etc.

The idea of random roaches stealing into your camp to gorge themselves, shit in your sink, and then sleep in your bed as you explore the playa and enjoy the event pisses me off and it didn't happen to me...I am afraid I would end up in jail...I am just not programmed to accept such random chaos without action...

In a smaller setting, as the event began as...that is a different matter...share what you have etc.

But in this huge setting I am at a loss how to curb the waves of roaches that are currently plaguing the event...I suspect an easy answer would be to establish a merit system to earn the right to secure a ticket.

Some regional sponsorship perhaps? You must attend a local event and help to gain a sponsorship merit cue...or something of the sort...community service with a letter of reference?

It sounds like crap but with all the local/regional groups it would not be out of the possible...maybe make the sponsored tickets $200 and non-sponsored $400, or some other aspect...make it harder on the only aspect that the roaches understand, money.

It is a quandary.

Atomic Ray
"Almost nobody dances sober, unless they happen to be insane."
— H.P. Lovecraft

Turnip
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Turnip » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:31 pm

My boyfriend got his LOCKED bike stolen.



I suppose he could have thought of a more clever bike combination than 666 though. :roll:
God Please, don't make me make myself look like a moron...

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Hoolie
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Hoolie » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:42 pm

atomicray wrote:3. Class privilege...this is the most curious element for me...if ever there was a place where the people should be non concerned with what the next person has it is Burning Man...do you really think Larry is living in a pup tent ($20 million dollars made from ticket sales...that is a few steps up the class ladder I would think)...in the and of art, artists, and those that appreciate the same who cares if you hitchhiked in or if that guy flew in? Sounds like a blend of bright green jealousy and searing red envy...me, I would welcome a few comforts in a toxic environment...I lived in toxic and dangerous environments and I can promise you that a shower, AC, and a comfy bed is a luxury that exceeds the supposed value until you are in that toxic situation. But to complain that someone has more, has comfort, or has workers is a bit extreme to me.
Not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was, you completely missed my point. I made no mention of material possessions, and don't begrudge anyone for whatever creature comforts they bring to the playa. I once marveled at the shower one camp had constructed: Full-on ceramic tiled shower with glass doors and plumbing. It was awesome. No, the distinction I made was establishing a class hierarchy among participants consisting of employers and employees. There is a reason commerce is forbidden at the event, and there is a reason the city is built by volunteers. There is (was) an ethos that existed where participants contributed their goods and services for their own self-reliance and for the community at large, not for a paycheck. If that idea is offensive to some, no problem. No one is forcing them to go to Burning Man, and they can massage their capitalistic urges to their heart's content 365 days a year in the default world.

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Miles
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by Miles » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:48 pm

atomicray wrote: the waves of roaches that are currently plaguing the event
Lets take some deep breaths here. This is a case of 'a few rotten apples', not a plague.

How about instead of trying to cast these people aside as worthless, we try to include them. Sure- they should have read the survival guide. They're annoying, loud, aggressive assholes who ruin the vibe. BUT is anyone actually trying to educate them, to tell them why what they're doing is wrong, and how to burn better?

Frostbite, for example, you could have told the pack at the gas station why they should move: "You're going to block trucks trying to pull in and fuel. Pull aside so burners don't get an even worse reputation around here. Thanks."

I know it can be uncomfortable, and sometimes (usually, even) completely fruitless, to try to reason with these people, but if we don't at least try, than it's everybody's fault that the event goes downhill.

- I Turned 26 Wednesday of burn week. We're not all that bad.
I like bikes and stuff

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illy dilly
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by illy dilly » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:56 pm

Miles wrote: - I Turned 26 Wednesday of burn week. We're not all that bad.
Happy Birthday Miles!
Shit, why didn't you mention that you had a birthday during burn week!?!?

Though, I know for a fact that you and I are far from the 20 year old roaches that have been mentioned. But wouldn't you agree that there are more than just a few bad apples? I'd have to say that compared to even 2009 it was pretty bad.
But there was a stinky vibe all around the playa this year, who knows. Maybe the weather was too nice and it some how made people grumpy.
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
Plan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave

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bradtem
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by bradtem » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:44 pm

Hoolie wrote: There is a reason commerce is forbidden at the event, and there is a reason the city is built by volunteers. .
My understanding is that the original reason that commerce was forbidden is that this was a BLM restriction -- "no vending" -- and this was embraced and expanded to promote a philosophy of a non-commercial city, and then later the idea of a gift economy. This is not to say that people focus more on these later reasons, but I believe the historical reason was quite mundane.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn

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atomicray
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by atomicray » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Hoolie!

No I did not direct my thoughts at you lol. Just the general outlook.

Sorry if it hit you, I did not intend to throw anything harmful :shock:
"Almost nobody dances sober, unless they happen to be insane."
— H.P. Lovecraft

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PimpMama
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by PimpMama » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:01 pm

This year's Burn had a lot of wonderful qualities, but I agree with previous posters who felt that the "vibe" (yes I'm a California hippie) has been shifting away from the principles that I was indoctrinated into. I believe therein lies the rub. It's not that Burning Man is "mainstream". It's that more people are coming to the event without any indoctrination at all. I don't want to blame young people because I don't think it's all on their shoulders. The event could not continue if no one new ever attended. I do agree that I witnessed more negativity and less open acceptance. I heard lots of "Burnier-than-thou" comments from all sorts of Burners - hippie-types, goth/industrial types, Burners with babies and others.

MY MINOR BITCHES:
* I missed the theme camp "Lip Service", as I lost both tubes of lip balm I brought with me early in the week and I was in dire need of bad advice several times.
* I felt there were a lot of blocks that were completely uninviting to the pedestrian. No lights, no interactions ... just RV sides and walls created to keep you out.
* Too many overly loud art cars prowling the inner streets, rolling by with music bumping. Full or not I never saw one stop and offer anyone a ride.
* I witnessed lots of inappropriate touching. Asking permission seems to have gone to the wayside, whether it's about taking a picture or grabbing an exposed body part. Really - just because someone is wearing minimal clothing does not mean they are sex-obsessed or openly asking to be touch by a stranger.
* Groups seem to be larger and restrict participants from experiencing new interactions with new people. Why make all that effort to set up camp in the desert just to party like you were at 1015 in SF, CA? This phenomenon turns BRC into a city like any other - disconnected - the antithesis of what the event touts as a high priority - community.
* We left just as the Temple fell to its fire. There were several duelie trucks pulling trailers that sped out at well over 30 mph, kicking up dust and disregarding all the other vehicles trying to leave. DANGEROUS.
* The Sound Camp Mall at 10 o'clock REALLY felt like a ghetto rave environment. Maybe BRC was trying to consolidate that element, but it was wholly unpleasant and meant that I didn't want to venture to the 1 or 2 events I was interested in because wading through the massive number of people clogging that area was like Wal-Mart on Black Friday.
* Bigger is not better, BRC. Consider containing the event at the 50k cap.
* No stranger offered to hug me this year.
* The number of police vehicles on the open Playa with glaring headlights was astronomical. Several times I felt very uncomfortable with being watched by police/sheriff/BLM rangers. Every time I walked out after dark I felt oppressed by their presence, rolling up on me, driving slowly by me shining their lights directly on me or just sitting in their vehicles staring. Last year a sheriff actually charged up to a circle of people talking, clicked on his flashlight, shined it from my head to my toes & back again, clicked it off and walked away without saying anything. WTF?

All that being said, I met some amazing people. I had a really good time.
~Pimp Mama~

Embrace the Universe's perverse perfection.

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atomicray
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Re: post what you didn't like about 2011 here

Post by atomicray » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:00 pm

As for all, majority, or even a high percentage of 20 somethings being roaches...I highly highly doubt that.

As is most often the case...the rotten apples smell the worst and tend to ruin the batch.
"Almost nobody dances sober, unless they happen to be insane."
— H.P. Lovecraft

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