BLM citations

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joel the ornery
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Post by joel the ornery » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:30 am

helitack wrote:
ubu wrote:Why do you think they come back to BRC every year?
Because it is their job.
and there are plenty of people with bad intent lurking out there willing to take your shit if the LEO weren't there.

dragonfly Jafe
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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:03 am

joel the ornery wrote:
helitack wrote:
ubu wrote:Why do you think they come back to BRC every year?
Because it is their job.
and there are plenty of people with bad intent lurking out there willing to take your shit if the LEO weren't there.
There may be a small preventive effect by the LEO's prescence, but not much. Thieves run rampant, the LEO's do nothing about it unless they stumble onto someone. Even if you go to them and say "some asshole stole my bike and took it to THAT camp" they will not follow up (true story). They are there to bust druggies and get big $$$ for their department via citations (evidenced by the fact that they rarely bother with a conviction if the fine is payed promptly), and to look at titties. Period. Oh yeah, and to get paid.

I think I would prefer no LEO's (I can defend myself and property just fine without them; in fact in my entire life I have never received any help from an LEO even when I beg for it, just hassles)
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

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_tears_
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Post by _tears_ » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:23 am

The first year I went I had a drug infested Burning Man. The 2nd year I attended I stayed clean the whole time. Both my experiences were amazing with graet equality however they were two totally different experiences.

I would never take either one of them back or change how I did anything. If I attended again I am not sure which way I would or wouldn't go or if I would even plan it.

I'm sorry for those who were cited without reason.

-Tears
[size=84][color=red]
Tears 2003, 2004
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The Ties That Bind Me Hold My Soul
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ubu
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Re: Let's be friends :)

Post by ubu » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:12 pm

Blackrock Lover wrote:Dearest Ubu,

I don't know that we need be advesaries. What was described in the previous post is not a violation of anyone's privacy. A car being driven down the road in an open area video taping whatever can be seen is simply not a violation of privacy. No more than if I drove down your street and videotaped as I went. Now, what could that video be used for? Most likely it was BLM PR types as such a video would be near useless for LE purposes. I mean if you have the officers right there observing why do you need a tape, and who has the time to go back to camp and sift through the video in hopes of finding something and then coming back to the same area and most likely finding it gone. It's just not good time management if nothing else. And certainly doing it in a fashion that is obvious would be poor tactics. And was this even a BLM vehicle?

In a recent LE refresher our instructor used the term "right to be, right to see" basically if a person has a right to be where they are they have the right to see whatever is around them. Pretty simple.
Brlover,

I appreciate your thoughtfulness as always. You'd be good at almost any job I expect. Of course I identified the vehicle as BLM. I identify every vehicle that is in my purview, and I acknowledge every person I see wherever I am. That is just who I am.

I enjoyed pointing out some art to some BLM rangers in center camp, and they were appreciative. It was a friendly moment. I had my own "right to be, right to see" moment when I questioned two BLM officers who I can identify by face and did not see on previous years as to whether they were taking tourist pictures. first they said yes, then no. I don't care to hear why they were taking those pictures or what for, as I will not believe any answer I get.

Yes, I get to know all your faces. I'm friendly and I do appreciate individuals. I also appreciate that our interests do not necessarily coincide, which is fine with me. no problem. My interests lie in notifying every unaware kid with a pipe in hand to put it away and avoid search, seizure and citation. My interests also lie in ensuring privacy and in monitoring any surveillance of any area that I am in, and in identifying all vehicles in my vicinity at any time. vigilance. copwatch. gently, it just comes naturally to me.

Also, I want to notify any newbies to this conversation that the BLM, by design, has no monetary interest in citation. all funds go to good causes such as Katrina relief for which Brlover amongs others was personally working.

I believe that privacy has eroded in this country, but I know that this is a matter of legislature and policy and that enforcement is just doing a job. I'm just doing my calling as a defender of what I see as freedom. It is all in Hobbes.

The cat and mouse game will end when we change law and policy, but even before that great change happens if ever, very soon BRC will move off of BLM land. good nigh and good luck to you all, whatever your interests.
ta epi ta

dragonfly Jafe
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Re: Let's be friends :)

Post by dragonfly Jafe » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:59 pm

ubu wrote:Also, I want to notify any newbies to this conversation that the BLM, by design, has no monetary interest in citation. all funds go to good causes such as Katrina relief for which Brlover amongs others was personally working.
I would be interested to see confirmation of this - I have doubts that the system is such that certain tickets can have funds earmarked for charity. If true, then I will be less suspicious of the BLM intentions. Do you have any cites? It would perhaps go along way if during the citation giving, the officers stated that a portion of the ticket goes to charity....(I seriously doubt that ALL of the ticket amount goes to charity - surely they deduct "adminmistrative costs" if nothing else...)

In the mean time, I will do some perusing of the BLM site....
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

dj_john69
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Post by dj_john69 » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:13 pm

Anyone notice some LEOS wearing bullet proof vest while on partol ?? I did. They looked silly. Silly enough for me to point and laugh at them from a few feet away.

Another observation i made over the years is that the local sheriffs/cops seemed more chill. The out of state cops seemed uptight and acted liked they were on an assignment in Compton...packing guns with their hands on their guns while patrolling. No need to act like assholes to burners unless provoked first. Screw the out of state police/sheriffs !! I am a Nevada citizen. I don't have to deal with them...and i don't. If they stop me on the Playa, i tell them that they are out of their jurisdiction and walk away. They left me alone after that. I personally wouldnt try this unless you live within 100 miles of the Playa though. (Unless they are DEA)

To the guy who first posted after this years burn...a $525 ticket is better than jail time. Sure you might have a medical marajuana card BUT they aren't valid in Nevada as of yet. There has been tons of debate over this but you are better off paying the fine and dealing with any consequences. If you dont pay it, it will turn into a warrant and the fine will go up as well as the penalities.

Anyone deal with the DEA on the Playa this year ?? Im curious about Federal citations and how they treated you while under their custody.

Bottom line on the Playa. If you chose to do illegal substances/activities, you risk getting busted. LEOS have high tech equipment to see you and your camp anytime !! If they smell pot, they can and will bust you. They are known for waiting until you are asleep to bust you. They tackle tents and raid you and your tent. If your in an rv, they can and will raid your rv for probable cause. Dont be stupid enough to set yourself up if you cant handle the consequences. 9 out of 10 arrest are drug related. Its the small fines that add up quickly which make the LEOS job worth wild. Maybe that why they dont give a fuck if your mountain bike got stolen. There isn't a montary value to gain by finding your bike when they can bust an older couple smoking a joint and give a ticket/fine. Think about how many people got a ticket this year. I'd guess (low guess) about 1000 tickets this year. The minimum ticket fine usually gets about $100 up to $1000. Do the math. I do call BULLSHIT about all fines going to charity !!! Thats dumb. If anything, less than 10% would go to charity.

~John

Blackrock Lover
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Post by Blackrock Lover » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:18 pm

Sadly I'm in a bit of a rush so I will not be able to address many of the issues raised in various posts. But a simple one...that might be hard to find an answer to is that all monies from citations go directly to the black hole of the federal budget less a $25 processing fee that I believe goes to the courts for processing. BLM gets absolutely no $ back from citations in any way. Just so ya know there also is no quota system set for issueing citations and it does not affect performance ratings.

I will try to reply when I get back from vacation.....or maybe during if I have internet access.

:)
BRL

Ingram
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BM Citations Entered into Federal Database

Post by Ingram » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:32 pm

When you receive a citation from the BLM at Burning Man,
your personal information (name, address, date of birth,
and social security number) are entered into a US database.

Even if you pay the fine and fees, it could still be accessed
by law enforcement or other investigators (as a public record).

In other words, what seems to be a routine ticket for
possession, could, if future circumstances change,
cause problems with your career (particularly, if you
apply for a government job or a political position).

Aze
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Records

Post by Aze » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:07 pm

There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether these citations go on your record if you pay them.

I spoke with the court clerk who said if they are paid it won't show up on your record at all. She said the info stops at the Central Violations Bureau which is where you pay the ticket. She said this is true even if you don't pay it in 21 days but rather wait for a court date and try to have the judge reduce the fine, pleading no contest. She said if you are found guilty (after pleading not guilty) then the US Attorney has the option of making it an "information item" meaning it goes on your record, but that isn't automatic, just an option they have.

The citing officer in my case said it goes into an internal database accessible by law enforcement, but that it isn't visible in your "public record". They say if I was asked if I had any convictions I could say no since a conviction only happens in court.

A lawyer I spoke with says it would go on the federal record, and that the "no contest" plea entered by paying the citation is equivalent to a guilty plea, so I would have to say I was convicted in order to answer truthfully.

I have heard secondhand reports of someone who paid a lawyer $500 to have it expunged from their record after some time had passed, which makes me think it must go on the record otherwise there would be nothing to expunge.

What everyone seems to agree on is that there are separate databases for state/local records and federal records, and that this would/could/might only go on your federal record, not your state record. The state records would be what the CHP or other local authorities would look at first, and they might only pull the federal records in more extreme cases (e.g. if you are arrested not just traffic stopped).

The more information the better, so I'd like to hear what others have found out about this. Please cite your sources where possible when answering.

If the citation is paid within 21 days:
Will it show on the federal record as a misdemeanor?
Will it be considered a conviction?
Can it increase the penalties for future convictions?
Can it be found in a job background search?
Is it possible to expunge and if so how?

And what are the answers to those questions for the scenario where someone pleads not guilty but is later found guilty... does the record look worse?

There must be people reading this who have gotten BLM citations and later pulled their records to see... that would be the best way of putting this to rest if they could report.

brayandtrill
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Post by brayandtrill » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:22 pm

I don't know what happens if you are cited on the playa but I was arrested on the way out of bm last year in Shurtz and sent to mineral county jail. My charge of "illegal use of a controlled substance" was later "dismissed without prejudice" due to lack of evidence (the "official" lab drug test came back negative even though the roadside one showed positive).
I have no way to know what is really on my record but I did pay my attorney to have my records "sealed". This was recommended to me by my immigration attorney (yes, to complicate things I was a few months from my final green card and would have been deported if charged) who said it provided another "layer" of protection for me, whatever that means. For immigration purposes I still have to say that I have been arrested. Other than that I have no idea. Don't know if this helps anyone but I can tell you that you are far better off if you are cited on the playa than off.

antechrist
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narc

Post by antechrist » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:24 pm

Wow, what a great thread. Copwatch is a fantastic idea. Here is my story:

Just after the temple burn I was milling about and had some sinus congestion from the dust. I blew my nose rather loudly and immediately a short, fat, really grubby guy with dirty blond hair and cheap goodwill hobo clothes approached me and asked to take my photo. I instinctively agreed as I had no reason not to, but I wanted to wipe some of the snot off my hand first and strike a pose. He gave me time to do neither and just took the photo. He seemed really uncomfortable when I gave him a hug. He then asked me if I had been "tooting" anything a moment ago. I was confused and told him it was just the fucking playa dust. It was only afterwards that I picked up on all the subtle "off" cues in his behavior that marked him as a narc. The photo part is the creepiest. I'm glad I didn't get arrested for blowing my nose!

Ubu, I tried sending you a PM but can't, and I can't recieve PMs either. Will you email me?

dragonfly Jafe
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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:30 am

Well after a search of the BLM site, I could find nothing about ticket money going to charity. However, there is nothing in their budget which suggests they get any of their funds from tickets. So I sent an email asking if it was true, and I got a auto-reply saying they have received it. Presumambly I will get the straight word in a few days or weeks (after they de-playa-fy themselves). I will post the response when I get it.
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

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Tiara
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Post by Tiara » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:42 am

The rumor that BLM ticket money goes to charity is completely without merit.

ubu
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Post by ubu » Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:32 pm

I don't post rumors Tiara, I post research. I've been contributing to this thread a little and have been conversing, reasonably, with brlover, a BLM ranger and Federal officer, since 2003, just after you joined eplaya.

I appreciate brlover even as I vet everything he says with my own feeble powers of reason and research.

I never said charity, I said good causes. As of the last time I checked, all funds sent to the Central Violations Bureau went to good causes such as disaster relief. By design, the CVB is a completely different branch of Gov from BLM. Please do your own research. It could have changed since 2003 but one thing that is built into the design that has not changed is the layer of abstraction between CVB and all enforcement divisions. These federal officers are pressed shirt straight arrows. Their interests are different from mine, but I see them quite clearly.

I write political economic analysis in peer reviewed capacity and am originally from DC where many of my clan have worked for various branches of the federales. I know a smidgen of how the Federal Government works. Do not trust me. Do your own research. Study the government. Make your own conclusions. You are on your own.

P.S. to those who have tried to PM me. The PM system seems to be broken for now. Please notify the admins and they should probably fix it. I will respond to all PMs. I will not in most cases use email.
ta epi ta

dragonfly Jafe
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Post by dragonfly Jafe » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:37 pm

I got a nice reply to my request...here it is (edited only to remove my personal contact info);

------------------------------------------------------------

Money received in payment of fines for citations issued by BLM law
enforcement officers, whether at the Burning Man event or anywhere else,
goes directly to the U.S. Treasury's General Fund. Disbursements made from
the General Fund are made for all of the myriad purposes specified by the
Congress. Since Katrina relief is currently one of those purposes, it is
possible that some of the funds collected do go to Katrina relief, but only
coincidentally.
On the other hand, money collected by BLM from Black Rock City LLC
(the proponent/organizer of the Burning Man event) must be used first to
cover administrative and law enforcement costs associated with the event
and then any remaining funds must be used to benefit the Black Rock
Desert-High Rock Canyon Emigrant Trails National Conservation Area and
associated Wilderness Areas (i.e. protect and enhance natural resources,
public safety, and the public's recreational experience).
I hope this information is of use to you and want to thank you for
your interest in your public lands and resources.

Information
Washington/WO/BLM
/DOI
Sent by: Peggy S
Britell

Subject
09/08/2006 05:42 Re: BLM citations go to charity?
AM (Document link: NV WFO Webmail)



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

I am a private citizen residing in Idaho. I am trying to get
confirmation/denial that a portion of monetary fines (citations) given by
BLM officers go to charities such as the Katrina relief effort. I am asking
specifically about those citations given during the Burningman Festival in
Nevada each year, but would appreciate any information you can provide.

I can be reached at;

(deleted)

Thank you for your time,

Sincerely,

Jeffery
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

ubu
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Post by ubu » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:13 pm

Nice, Dragonfly. Slight change in policy, but continues the abstraction between enforcement monies and BLM coffers.
Well designed to avoid corruption, which would be inevitable and is oftent rampant in state and local enforcement collection of monies and siezure of assets.
ta epi ta

pbmaniac2000
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Post by pbmaniac2000 » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:29 pm

Well everything in here seems to be about drug busts. I was wondering if anyone has head anything about MIPs. I never once got asked for an id or anything.

ubu
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Post by ubu » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:20 pm

Alcohol is the most destructive drug on the playa. Ounce for Ounce, Liver for Liver, the good old killa. Ironically, minors have the strongest Livers. But hey, the only taste of alky I had was a few sips of a 200 dollar bottle of sake that the mother of a friend gave us. we used it to celebrate his birthday. his 30th. youngest guy in my camp.

Were you hoping more people got busted for serving more gin to little jenny? or were you bummed that you did not get carded? it might have been your gray hair, playa dust or no, that made you look overrage.

Most bars were nice enough to serve me water, which I gladly accepted.
ta epi ta

Aze
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Consequences

Post by Aze » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:09 pm

I did a lot of research on just what would go on my record for this citation, and let me share what I learned. Basically if I pay the citation within the 30 days, I won't get anything on my record, but I will have been convicted of a misdemeanor.

The $525 citation gets paid to the "Central Violations Bureau" in Atlanta, which is the organization that collects the money from all the BLM citations nationwide. I called them up and they said for these Burning Man citations they will not report to any driving records, and it will not be reported to the federal NCIC criminal database. They said it won't go on any central databases, so nobody will be able to discover it. However, they do keep paper and then microfiche records forever and if a federal agency wants details then they could get it, if they knew about the incident. The court also confirmed that they won't report anything to any central records.

The citation says on the back that "In some federal jurisdictions, payment of the total collateral due constitutes a plea of guilty or nolo contendere". I verified with the Reno court that this is one of those jurisdictions, and so paying the fine would result in a "no contest" (effectively the same as guilty) plea to a misdemeanor, meaning if someone asked if you had any convictions the truthful answer would be yes.

So this a strange situation where paying the citation means you have a conviction, but nobody would ever be able to find out about it if you didn't tell them. The courts and databases won't have any record, there will just this paper/microfiche record at the CVB.

Of course as things get more connected in the future, I don't there's anything legally stopping the CVB from dumping those records into a central database, except the expense of doing so.

I decided to pay the $525 citation to the CVB within the 30 days.

It's probably not a good idea to try and seal this record (a legal procedure which normally hides criminal records). According to the court, doing so would involve transferring the record from the CVB to the court, and possibly creating a criminal case in the central NCIC records. So sealing could actually make it more visible not less. If you apply for a federal job (like public school teacher) all sealed records are automatically unsealed, so they might find it if you sealed (but not if you didn't).

I think I have a chance at winning if I were to take it to trial or court, but a trial would cost at least $5000 in lawyer fees, could result in the US Attorney deciding to place this on my central NCIC record, and could even end up having me convicted of a felony rather than misdemeanor (not likely in my marijuana case, but quite likely for someone else who might have harder drugs). This is what stinks about the system: they make it easier just to pay the citation and get the conviction than fighting it and possibly risking more.

On the other hand I should probably be happy... apparently if this happened outside the BLM lands the Nevada penalties would have been worse and it would have gone on my record.

Clearly, even if you are in the right it's much better just not to get caught.

dj_john69
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Post by dj_john69 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:19 pm

Wow, very interesting to read Aze.

Yes, it's true...your better off getting the ticket on the Playa vs anywhere else in Nevada. Until about 6 years ago...getting caught with a seed or a pipe was a felony. Im very glad they loosened up a lil bit.

~John

Mrs Beltane
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Post by Mrs Beltane » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:46 am

heres my experience
Had a few cocktails at sundown every night
drank a lot of beer
did some lovely MDMA in my car
smoked a few pipes with my neighbours outside his car
found some coke on the ground at the Lotus Girls and did that in my car.

I didnt get busted but I could have been. I took my chances. I was lucky. I had a great time.......

Had I been busted I would have 'whined' but I may have asked why BMorg needs to have the best party in the world on a piece of overpriced, overenforced (how many LE agency's?...6? 7??) land.

I love the Playa but is there nowhere in the USA on private land that Burning Man could be held??

ps Ujon, in my country you would be called a cunt. Your unquestioning support of the laws of your country and the law enforcers are the thin end of the wedge that starts in BRC and ends at Guantanamo....

Have a nice day.

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Post by mdmf007 » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:09 pm

You may feel LEO's are not nec4essary but I disagree.

I work ESD - and see plenty of helpless Drunks geting taken advantage of at BM.

One case involved a drunk gal robbed of her 980 Bucks - I called LE in and they arrested the perpetrator, and retrieved the 980 bones.

job well done-

later and be safe
One of the Meanie Greenies (Figjam 2013)

ubu
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Re: Consequences

Post by ubu » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:36 pm

Aze wrote: The citation says on the back that "In some federal jurisdictions, payment of the total collateral due constitutes a plea of guilty or nolo contendere". I verified with the Reno court that this is one of those jurisdictions, and so paying the fine would result in a "no contest" (effectively the same as guilty) plea to a misdemeanor, meaning if someone asked if you had any convictions the truthful answer would be yes.
Aze. Nice research. However, you might be pleased to know that "nolo contendere" is up to interpretation. You can technically declare that you were not convicted.

In Lott Vs. United States, 367 US 421 where the Court, after stating that the plea (of nolo contendere) is tantamount to an admission of a guilt for the purposes of the case, added that the plea itself, does not constitute a conviction and hence, is not a determination of guilt.

Technically, you are going belly up on this case, but you have not been convicted. That is why nothing shows up on your record. If you were convicted, you would have a record of some sort.

This is my current understanding. If you have other legal reasoning as to why you have been convicted, I'd like to see it.

My basic understanding is that all minor BLM citations, for speeding, for burning wood outside of designating camping areas, for breaking the rules, are treated as fines which you can pay without conviction. nolo contendere is a convenience for the court system in minor cases in which no conviction is necessary. in most cases.
Aze wrote:
I think I have a chance at winning if I were to take it to trial or court, but a trial would cost at least $5000 in lawyer fees, could result in the US Attorney deciding to place this on my central NCIC record, and could even end up having me convicted of a felony rather than misdemeanor (not likely in my marijuana case, but quite likely for someone else who might have harder drugs). This is what stinks about the system: they make it easier just to pay the citation and get the conviction than fighting it and possibly risking more.
They call that "the money point" and there is an essay on findlaw on exactly that convenience for the system. They raised the maximimum convictionless fine from 250 to 525.

but it is no conviction, only like an admission of guilt. close but not quite a conviction. ymmv.

You were caught. they took your stash. they cost you a few hours. they fined you. you can still declare that you have no convictions unless you have been convicted of something else in a court of law.
ta epi ta

Aze
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Post by Aze » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:37 pm

ubu, many thanks for that info. Three different lawyers had told me that paying the fine would result in a conviction, but after your reply and some more web research on my part I think they were wrong. They probably didn't know that there was no court date listed on the citation. It is interesting that most of the bad advice I got was from lawyers.

I now agree that technically the automatic "nolo contendere" plea from paying the BLM citation is not a conviction. It seems that in normal court proceedings, when someone pleads nolo contendere, they are automatically convicted by the court. So most people consider the plea essentially the same as a conviction. But in the unique case of these citations, the court isn't involved after paying it, so now I think it is proper to say no conviction has occurred.

However, that doesn't necessarily absolve me from reporting it on job applications... some applications specifically ask about nolo contendere pleas. But most probably don't.

ubu
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Post by ubu » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 pm

right. well, that is interesting. it is kind of a fine distinction, subject to clarification by legal opinion. it looks like the judge in a court case has discretion as to what kind of penalty to apply in a nolo contendere, even though it is not an admission of guilt, and not a conviction. it can be treated as one by a judge in a particular case. but only in regards to that case. or at least that is how I read it. interesting.

I told someone else who asked me that if an employer asks for that kind of information that might be a tipoff that you probably want to seek work elsewhere. you could treat it as an employer filter. kind of like drug testing. that is if you have the luxury of choosing your line of work.

be well. and thanks for the info
ta epi ta

Aze
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Post by Aze » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:31 pm

After getting this citation I've done a lot of reading up on what rights a person has when coming into contact with cops that want to search.

One of the best resources is:

http://flexyourrights.com/

and their video on youtube:



Definitely required watching if you are going use substances that our repressive government don't like. If I had really known this stuff beforehand I might not have gotten the citation.

Since the first thing the LEOs will say is "you better give it up or I'll bring in the Canines", it's good to understand a bit about case law relating to canine searches:

http://www.k9fleck.org/narlegal.htm

Overall, we have a lot more rights than most people know, and it's up to us to know those rights and exercise them.

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skygod
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:50 am
Burning Since: 2004
Location: Twentynine Palms, CA
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Post by skygod » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:02 am

Unjon's posts remind me of a story-
A zen student went to his Master every day and asked him what the meaning of life was. Each time he asked this question his Master beat him severly until he ran out of the room. The student decided he needed a different Master, and went down the street to ask a different Master to take him on as a student. After listening to the student describe his experiences, the new Master said "Certainly, you can be my student. But first you have to go back to your old master and thank him for his Grandmotherly Kindness".
"It will seem difficult in the beginning. But everything seems difficult in the beginning."- Musashi

sacred573
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:30 am
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Re: Let's be friends :)

Post by sacred573 » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:22 am

This summer will be my first burn, and I'm of course planning on bringing treats for myself. I'm glad I saw this thread first though. Looks like I'll be toking up alone, and hiding in my van to do it.

Shit... I hope I land close to Ubu's camp!

dj_john69
Posts: 553
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:18 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: Root Society & Apex
Location: Nevada

Post by dj_john69 » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:08 pm

Aze wrote:After getting this citation I've done a lot of reading up on what rights a person has when coming into contact with cops that want to search.

One of the best resources is:

http://flexyourrights.com/

and their video on youtube:



Definitely required watching if you are going use substances that our repressive government don't like. If I had really known this stuff beforehand I might not have gotten the citation.

Since the first thing the LEOs will say is "you better give it up or I'll bring in the Canines", it's good to understand a bit about case law relating to canine searches:

http://www.k9fleck.org/narlegal.htm

Overall, we have a lot more rights than most people know, and it's up to us to know those rights and exercise them.
So, the Youtube video has been removed. Any chance of finding it again and posting it up here ?? Thanks.

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GREENPENIS
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:59 pm
Location: in between the B(.)(.)BY BAR
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Post by GREENPENIS » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:40 pm

Here it is , good stuff to know.
http://www.flexyourrights.org/busted/movie_clips


Now if I could only figure out how to get
the DPW to stop searching my Mutant Vehicle
for extra alcohol......
I'm taking Viagra and drinking prune juice - I don't know if I'm coming or going.
-- Rodney Dangerfield

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