Exodus 2013

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
User avatar
Mojojita
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Re: Exodus 2013 - How was it?

Post by Mojojita » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:56 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:Greeting us? I brow beat my newbie into lying about her status, though she still opted for a hug. We, the time we took, was thru in minutes, but the wait depends on what others in front decide, who can refuse friendly beautiful people and photo ops?, and I don't cut lanes unless directed to or a breakdown or some other excuse I can muster, and every lane has people mulling around, enjoying the greeters. The purpose of a line is to get thru it, not prolong it...unless it was that rockin' exodus street part, or getting ice... I think I need to continue this conversation on Page Two
Greeters are routinely trained in how to change their schtick to "speed greeting". This happens when we get any more than a few cars waiting in the lines. Speed greeting relies on not letting people get out of their cars - we know how long everyone has waited already. Anyone who wants a more thorough greeting can always come out to the station during a quieter time and get the whole works. Greeters real job is to be sure everyone coming in has heard the most important information they need for the event to remain open and be as safe as possible. It is to look people in the eye and send the messages about darkwads, moop, porto potties, speed limits, hydration, etc.. We know these messages are old news to many but maybe can never be said enough.

Yes, the bells are purposely not installed during the heaviest traffic.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.

User avatar
Lonesomebri
Posts: 2561
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
Burning Since: 2018
Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
Location: NorCal

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by Lonesomebri » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:19 pm

hippie talk

User avatar
Mojojita
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by Mojojita » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:23 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:hippie talk
I love you, Man....
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.

idio
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:36 am
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Stag

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by idio » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:44 am

GARS was the same from 5 AM till about 2 PM when I left.

I can understand that there's a practical limit to how much it can be updated, but a smidge more in the way of real-time updates would have been useful.

Lord Of Ruin
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:22 pm
Burning Since: 2017

Re: Exodus 2013 - How was it?

Post by Lord Of Ruin » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:23 am

bradtem wrote:We decided to sacrifice watching the temple burn to get a fast exodus, but in spite of it being posted here on ePlaya, nobody seemed to know about the 8pm Temple Burn plan. So we ended up missing the burn and getting caught in the line after it, since "just before the burn" is normally a great time to leave because it requires that sacrifice. No more though. About 6 hours to pavement, total of 10 hours to Truckee (no rooms in Reno.) Got there so late we lucked out and did an "early check in" for Monday night rather than a late check in for Sunday night.

I've proposed that next year, as many burners as possible run a GPS logging program on their phones or cameras when they enter and leave, to produce a large selection of tracklogs. This will reveal very precise wait times with no subjective impression, speeds of driving over all segments and a lot of other data. In fact, with the lanes so wide it will even tell if all lanes are really even. (Though GPS won't spot a lane reliably, it will give you sense of what side of the lanes you were on.)

Exodus and gate waits are becoming a major impediment. Yes, they want BM to be painful to get to, to keep the demand down. But the Gate+Exodus "tax" is on the full-week people which is a shame. Exodus is a hard one to fix, there is only so much capacity, and many hard to change factors about when people have to get home and what burns they want to see.

Gate, on the other hand, is a matter of choice. You can solve gate by throwing money at it. Not quite so trivial as that but it can be done. But I'll tell you, I doubt there are many vehicles in the long gate lines at the start of the event who would not happily fork over enough cash to meet the budgetary needs of a mega-gate with consistent sub-30 minute waits. The gate has a lot of volunteers right now, which is a barrier to solving the problem with money -- people don't like to volunteer next to others who are paid unless the paid staff are clearly at a different level of work -- but I am afraid that's not worth the huge amount of wasted time a long gate entails. If 20,000 people do a 4 hour gate wait, that's 80,000 wasted hours and $1.7 million at the national average hourly wage. Yes, you're not working, you might even enjoy yourself in line, but if you prefer, you can add another number to this.

I figure that if you're lucky, you get 60 to 80 hours of time at Burning Man, not counting sleep, camp set-up, tear-down and other required work-time. According to the 2004 census, the average person spends $2,000 to attend BM (for me it's much more) so if you spend $2K for 80 hours they cost about $25, and you could either look at that on its own, or add it to the national wage to get a $3.7M cost of the gate wait.

In other words, it might make a lot of sense to solve this one by throwing money at it.

(Some of these numbers are wild-assed guesses, but I know that 35,000 people were in the city by Monday noon -- when the wait was still 3-4 hours)
Bradtem...are you by chance an academic? I only ask because although you have some interesting ideas, you're missing the point by a wide margin for a business owner.

Burning Man is a commercial event; as ugly as that sounds, it's a product. The demand for the product is ever increasing, and outpaces the ability of the provider to manufacture more (pop. capacity). I understand your hurt feelings re: your wasted time, blah blahy blah.... but why, pray tell, would a business spend any money to solve a "problem" that doesn't impact the demand for the event? There is ONE, and precisely ONE controlling need on opening night: keep traffic moving safely, however slowly, down the highway into BM. That's being done now.
The fox provides for himself, but God provides for the lion - W. Blake (attribution corrected)

User avatar
Just_Joe
Posts: 995
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:04 pm
Burning Since: 2020
Camp Name: Black Rock Weather
Location: Nevada

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by Just_Joe » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:31 am

THIS...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

BetaBox
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 1:00 pm

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by BetaBox » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:50 am

....and everyone buys one.
See you in 2014

User avatar
bradtem
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Location: Silicon Valley
Contact:

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by bradtem » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:01 pm

Academic? Well, a bit recently, but mostly a serial entrepreneur and business creator.

Burning Man is a business is unusual, it has a huge volunteer contingent and an anti-commerce ethic within the city which alters a lot of its business procedures. Where any business would solve the current issues with market priced tickets, higher gate budgets and even gate bypass tickets if needed, Burning Man resists this, and may resist it even more as a non-profit.

However, I (and others) are not proposing gate fastlane tickets per se. There are many possible solutions for gate if you are willing to spend the money on it. I just point out that the value is high, and that the gate and exodus problems are very different. One is the capacity of physical roads, the other is org infrastructure
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10294
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by unjonharley » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:01 pm

bradtem wrote:Academic? Well, a bit recently, but mostly a serial entrepreneur and business creator.

Burning Man is a business is unusual, it has a huge volunteer contingent and an anti-commerce ethic within the city which alters a lot of its business procedures. Where any business would solve the current issues with market priced tickets, higher gate budgets and even gate bypass tickets if needed, Burning Man resists this, and may resist it even more as a non-profit.

However, I (and others) are not proposing gate fastlane tickets per se. There are many possible solutions for gate if you are willing to spend the money on it. I just point out that the value is high, and that the gate and exodus problems are very different. One is the capacity of physical roads, the other is org infrastructure
The one big stone in the hwy is there no matter how you pave it..
You can have just so many car on a two lane hwy at one time..

marcgorcey
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:42 pm

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by marcgorcey » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:02 pm

The one big stone in the hwy is there no matter how you pave it..
You can have just so many car on a two lane hwy at one time..
You're not thinking "outside the box"...

Image

stew
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:30 am
Location: Germany

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by stew » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:22 pm

unjonharley wrote:The one big stone in the hwy is there no matter how you pave it..
You can have just so many car on a two lane hwy at one time..
You are right - there's nothing that you can do on the GPE end when the highway is the limit. If you want to fix it with unlimited money, turn 447 into a six lane highway.
Don't listen to me - I'm just some random drunk with Internet access.
PLAYA PORN!

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10294
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by unjonharley » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:38 pm

stew wrote:
unjonharley wrote:The one big stone in the hwy is there no matter how you pave it..
You can have just so many car on a two lane hwy at one time..
You are right - there's nothing that you can do on the GPE end when the highway is the limit. If you want to fix it with unlimited money, turn 447 into a six lane highway.
16 lanes didn't do shit.. I'm lucky, only have to go Gerlach then head north.. At that point I become the stone in the road.. My little four banger only pulls at 55 mph.. On the grades going out of NV I'm down in 2nd churning up 20 grand to stay at 25-30 mph. On some climbs, down in compound.. Then I hold traffic up..

User avatar
Martiansky
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:24 pm
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: --->Hushville
Location: Duluth, MN

Re: Exodus 2013 - How was it?

Post by Martiansky » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:52 pm

Mojojita wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:Greeting us? I brow beat my newbie into lying about her status, though she still opted for a hug. We, the time we took, was thru in minutes, but the wait depends on what others in front decide, who can refuse friendly beautiful people and photo ops?, and I don't cut lanes unless directed to or a breakdown or some other excuse I can muster, and every lane has people mulling around, enjoying the greeters. The purpose of a line is to get thru it, not prolong it...unless it was that rockin' exodus street part, or getting ice... I think I need to continue this conversation on Page Two
Greeters are routinely trained in how to change their schtick to "speed greeting". This happens when we get any more than a few cars waiting in the lines. Speed greeting relies on not letting people get out of their cars - we know how long everyone has waited already. Anyone who wants a more thorough greeting can always come out to the station during a quieter time and get the whole works. Greeters real job is to be sure everyone coming in has heard the most important information they need for the event to remain open and be as safe as possible. It is to look people in the eye and send the messages about darkwads, moop, porto potties, speed limits, hydration, etc.. We know these messages are old news to many but maybe can never be said enough.

Yes, the bells are purposely not installed during the heaviest traffic.

My sister and I made it to the greeters station after waiting in line for 6 hours to get in on monday evening and it still took at least 10 minutes to get through Greeters since she got out and made dust angels and rang the bell(which only took about a minute)(we heard the bell ring well into tuesday from hushville, many people still coming through the gate) I got hugged many times from the Greeter I had which was very AWESOME I must say and then we were advised that we should relocate our license plate(which I had taken off and taped inside the back window of the truck topper because it was hidden by the hitch rack and crap I had on it)because the LEO's were getting picky about that, so after passing through Greeters we took a few minutes to pull over and rig a light that shined onto the plate(left it taped to back window). We were not stopped by anyone for it thank goodness and made it to Hushville at about midnight.

Exodus took 8 hours on monday afternoon(1:15 - 9:15ish) and we hit Fernley around 11:30 quite tired so we got a hotel room.
The radio station kept changing the info from a 4-6 hour wait to a 6-8 hour wait. What was cool was how people were partying and dancing and still having a great time in the line as we waited to leave.
I now wish I had stayed until tuesday to leave but who knew it would take that long especially with all the people who had left early?
When I was there in '05 I drove in monday afternoon right to the gate and when I left at about 5am after the Temple burn drove right out to the pavement.....BUT there was like 30,000 less people back then!
It really didn't seem too overcrowded with more people this time which I was surprised about.
So the theme this year is like a giant camp out in the desert? With people bringing lots of shit from all over? uh.. -Marscrumbs

maladroit
Posts: 2364
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by maladroit » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:13 pm

unjonharley wrote:My little four banger only pulls at 55 mph.. On the grades going out of NV I'm down in 2nd churning up 20 grand to stay at 25-30 mph. On some climbs, down in compound.. Then I hold traffic up..
20 grand? You running some sort of turbine engine there?

User avatar
bradtem
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Location: Silicon Valley
Contact:

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by bradtem » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:53 pm

This is one of the challenges of exodus. A lot of people bring heavy and in many cases underpowered vehicles to the playa. BM has a big share of ancient RVs and school buses, as well as overloaded vehicles.

Unfortunately, a large amount of the slowness of exodus can probably be blamed on them. If you have purely cars or fully powered vehicles, then highway lanes can handle over 2,000 vehicles per hour. But trucks drop that down to half, and underpowered vehicles can cut it to a third or less. But there are so many of them that this doesn't suggest great solutions. You could try to make a rule of nimble vehicles only at peak times, but people would ignore it and when you tried to turn them away you would get fights by people insisting their 1966 Bluebird schoolbus is super-powerful, and beside I really have to get out to catch a flight, etc. And you can't always tell. Some RVs are clunkers, others have big v10/v12 engines. But all heavy vehicles require more stopping distance and headway than cars.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn

strange love
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:21 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: San Francisco

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by strange love » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:16 pm

The big rain scare had a lot to do with the long exodus on Monday. I was warned by 4 different people to leave BRC as early as possible on Monday. Entry was also quite trying, it would be awesome if they opened the gates on Saturday but I doubt that would ever happen.

User avatar
Mojojita
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by Mojojita » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:26 pm

So, this problem is one that I would think should make a true entrepreneur's mouth water. Anyone who can design, plan, fund, and implement a way (or ways) to get people and gear in and out given the existing problems with the capacity of the road will stand to make a lot of $.

I have long thought that someone should keep banging away at the train idea that has been floated a few times. The tracks run right alongside the playa and trains are capable of bringing in lots of freight. It would take building a temporary loading dock and having a vendor who could unload and transport short distances. If the burner bus has it's own special lane, why couldn't transport from a train do the same with it's own entrance? I think it used to not be financially viable, but with the dramatic increase in population, maybe worth a second look? I don't know what the issues were then but?????
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.

User avatar
tatonka
Posts: 3349
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:28 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Rancho Deluxe
Location: oregon

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by tatonka » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:27 pm

On Mon got to the entrance at 11:45 am and got in at 4:20 pm , leaving on the next Mon at 4:20am am and got to 447 at 10:55am then getting home that night at 10:30pm total 500 miles for the day . Will wait till tuesday next year .
Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.
-Plato

If a good man is offered power , he has to lower himself to pick it up .

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10294
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by unjonharley » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:28 pm

maladroit wrote:
unjonharley wrote:My little four banger only pulls at 55 mph.. On the grades going out of NV I'm down in 2nd churning up 20 grand to stay at 25-30 mph. On some climbs, down in compound.. Then I hold traffic up..
20 grand? You running some sort of turbine engine there?
Oops! lets fix that 2 grand.. And I wish huh

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:36 pm

Next year everyone will wait till tues.

Second verse same as the first.
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
tatonka
Posts: 3349
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:28 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Rancho Deluxe
Location: oregon

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by tatonka » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:00 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Next year everyone will wait till tues.

Second verse same as the first.

true :)
Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.
-Plato

If a good man is offered power , he has to lower himself to pick it up .

User avatar
bradtem
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Location: Silicon Valley
Contact:

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by bradtem » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:53 pm

I don't know how long it's been since somebody tried to prod UP about the train. Things will have changed -- the main user of the Gerlach terminal was US Gypsum, which is now shut down, so I don't know if much happens there, or what the volume of trains is. I didn't notice trains this year, did you? Normally there will be several trains a day, as many as 15-20 in the old days.

One could attempt to build a siding at Trego -- a bunch of money and a lot of environmental impact evaluation, as these are different days from when the original line was built. But even with a siding you then need a system to move the people and the containers into the city, which is no small production. Individuals with a bicycle and just a backpack could go on their own.

The one-way nature of the rail line is a problem for people arriving from the west or leaving to the east.

In the end, though, is there really a big money opportunity here? The cost of the wait is huge, but hard to capture. They want BM to be hard to get to so that you have a smaller, motivated population. The remoteness, harshness and long trip are viewed as both a bug and a feature.

Infrastructure that's used only once a year is expensive and not cost effective. Most transportation infrastructure is designed for regular use to be cost effective. Rental is the way to go. You might be able to rent the cranes and buses, but not siding. Of course, if you could stop a train on the line for an hour that would be nice, but what if you run late because of a screw-up, and you're blocking the next train?

You could go to Gerlach (already has a siding) but then the bus trip is at least an hour round trip, and you need a lot more buses and trucks.

The train would be great -- a burning man party that starts in Oakland. You would be at Burning Man before you got to Burning man. I was told that in the past it could not be made to work, even by burners who worked at the Union Pacific. I presume there still are burners working there, perhaps it is time for them to try again.

The ride there would be long, starting in Emeryville for SF bay burners, stopping in Sacramento or Stockton to meet Socal burners, in Reno to get flying burners, in Winnemucca for eastern burners and then on to the playa. Going back is a problem for the eastern burners who left cars in Winnemucca, they would need a bus or train from Reno to get them back there, but in fact the best route back is one cars can't take that does not go to Reno, I think so it might be a bus from Susanville, which seems unproductive but perhaps better than waiting in lines in and out.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn

maladroit
Posts: 2364
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by maladroit » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:14 pm

The train solves nothing, even for just container hauling, because there's no good way to unload containers onto playa-worthy trucks without somehow involving 447 and some very heavy equipment.

It's not that horrible now. Consider the only workable alternative: the event traffic becomes strictly regulated. ALL camp equipment and vehicles must be loaded into containers, and it is all delivered to the playa the week before the event. ALL people are assigned to shuttle busses, and you are assigned an entry and departure slot that can't be changed. It's hard to imagine wait times of more than an hour with that setup, but it would suck a lot.

User avatar
kiss-o-matic
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:09 pm
Burning Since: 2012
Location: Chicago

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by kiss-o-matic » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:35 pm

How much would it cost to expand 447 an extra lane?

User avatar
bradtem
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Location: Silicon Valley
Contact:

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by bradtem » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:13 am

A lot, because you would have to acquire more land in many cases. And then there are the hills and the grade by pyramid lake. 447 is a full asphalt road, so you could not get away with cheaper approaches (like chipseal) which could be used in expanding 34 or paving Jungo road.

The train would not do nothing because while the containers on it would move on 34 from Gerlach, the passengers would move in buses of 40 to 60 people and reduce traffic a lot. Of course, if the passengers can get off on the playa then you don't use the roads at all.

Camps moving gear in containers can also move those containers before they arrive and after they leave, not at peak times. The only containers that would need to move with the passenger trains would be any containers with the passenger's larger gear. That is a bit of a nightmare if you want to be secure about it. If you don't care about that you just drop the container at a depot and have people pick out their stuff. That requires a guard to checks bag tags though for minimal security on it.

A nice touch would be a boxcar full of the bikes of all the passengers. Those with only a backpack to carry could get their bike, put on their backpack and pedal to camp from an on-playa depot. If you could ever get one.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn

maladroit
Posts: 2364
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by maladroit » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:43 am

I just don't see the possibility of building a train depot that has a crane to offload containers for only one month out of the year, let alone building it in a federally-protected lake that actually has water in it sometimes.

User avatar
bradtem
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Location: Silicon Valley
Contact:

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by bradtem » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:34 am

The crane would obviously have to be one that is rented and comes in by truck or rail. The "depot" would be a siding built, like the current tracks, on the elevated ground next to the playa. Have you not been to the existing crossings? One issue is the roads from the playa up to them would be rough for a big vehicle at present
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn

User avatar
Simon of the Playa
Posts: 19002
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
Location: Rochester, Nevada.

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:34 am

i love lamp.
Frida Be You & Me

User avatar
unjonharley
Posts: 10294
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
Location: Salem Or.

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:51 am

I intend to extend my burn.. Planing a good entrance party in D lot.. With lemonade, finger food and music plus?? Same for exit.. Meet new friends and have actual conversations..

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40313
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Re: Exodus 2013

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:57 am

maladroit wrote:I just don't see the possibility of building a train depot that has a crane to offload containers for only one month out of the year, let alone building it in a federally-protected lake that actually has water in it sometimes.
And that's not even taking into account that the tracks are owned by BNSF(? some commercial shipping entity) who don't stand to make enough money on the deal as they could lose on the delays to freight trains.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Post Reply

Return to “Stories”