I feel Burning Man is a White thing

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by BBadger » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:06 pm

abkiwi wrote:The White thing that I mentioned was an observation formed from the collective responses I had gotten from the few white people I talked to. All they could talk about was the many lovely people they had been meeting and how wonderful everything was. Meanwhile, I look at my bag of gifts, still almost full. I was both jealous and sad that interactions came so easily to them, while I struggled. I have an outgoing personality and generally have little trouble meeting people, but it was a different story at Burning Man.
Yeah, I've heard people having these grand adventures and interactions with random strangers they've met in other camps too. That hasn't really happened to me either. Outside the Meet and Greet, I've rarely interacted with people I really didn't know already; were it not for this forum, I'd probably have never met them, or have continued to talk to them. It's just how things are for me. Of course there were people I'd share a joke with or engage in conversations, but they were the kind of conversations you have while waiting in line to some scheduled event. I've had longer and more engaging conversations with people I've sat next to on planes.

In my recollection, I don't think I've ever had a more extensive conversation/interaction with someone at Burning Man outside of people I know or people in my camp. The people in my camp could also be considered strangers too the first time I met them; so maybe that somewhat counts? I've actually had more person-to-person interactions (outside the people I know) at my regional burn than anytime I've been at Burning Man. It's one reason I like both events about equally. Am I missing something in the experience of it all? Perhaps, but considering that I don't know better, I'm not one to judge. I still have a great time, and don't regret who I met or did not meet. Maybe you had different expectations.

So from my view, I don't think your experience was really an exceptional one, except for the fact that you're probably more outgoing than many of us. While there is definitely that welcoming and open feeling, it can be lonely out there in BRC. People are still the same social animals they are outside the event, and generally cluster together with people they already know -- or congregate around services or events.

Did race play a part in your interaction experiences? It may have, but I don't think that's the core reason for your experiences. I think it's just the social nature of the event. With those other people talking about their great interaction experiences, it could have been from a variety of things: who those people were with; the situations they happened to fall into; mutual interests in some sort of art/event; or even how "approachable" those people may have seemed. Approachability comes from all sorts of perceptions: a feeling of openness, gender, costumes, how busy someone looks, the frequency that the person smiled -- and yes, even race. I think it's a combination of things, not any one particular feature.

If you return, perhaps attend the ePlaya Meet and Greet. It's a lot of fun, and you meet people outside your face-to-face group of friends (for me anyway). The time I went, I thought I'd say my hellos and leave after an hour, but I ended up staying a few more talking to the people I had only seen as avatars on the forum. For everywhere else in the playa? Make the most of what you can. The playa needs more people like yourself who want to openly engage strangers.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Eric » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:46 pm

abkiwi wrote:Anyways, prior to attending, I was told by veterans that Burning Man was a place filled with love. All social barriers are broken down and people come together in the spirit of peace and generosity.
The Harsh Reality - your friends, to a degree, lied, and by doing so set you up for expectations that then got dashed against that reality. Not "all" barriers are broken, and while it can be filled with love, it's only going to be that way if you bring "starter love" in with you. There's a big reason any seasoned vet will warn you to try to have as few expectations as possible - we know that having them can ruin your Burn (even though many of us still have to actively work to suppress them). I'm an incredibly outgoing person, but it still takes an effort for me to approach unfamiliar playa bars, and while I try to smile while I'm out & about, it's rare I'll just randomly stop & talk to someone unless they have something that peaks my interest - their outfit, what their shouting from their megaphone, the unexpected yummy they're offering at the street corner... part of our social programming is to not talk to strangers, that's just a western construct of "polite society" (and, yes, race can play a role in that, but I think for most Burners it plays less of a role than in society at large).

Like others have said, hang around here, get to know people electronically, come to the Meet 'n Greet next year. It's a great way to give yourself a base of new friends, and it definitely helps ease your way into feeling more comfortable in BRC.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by maryanimal » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:29 am

(((hugs to Eric and BBadger))) You two said some wonderful things! What a couple of fluffy bunnies! Soft on the inside as well as the outside! Who loves ya baby? Meeeee!


Nice to meet you abkiwi! Welcome to eplaya!
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by gyre » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:21 am

Welcome to eplaya, abkiwi.
You're the one that made the comment about race.
I would like a clue about that.

Burning man takes a lot of effort.
The description you got sucks.

I'm painfully shy, but always curious about people.
I meet interesting people just through craigslist or car ads all the time.
Last new zealander I met was on cl.
They were moving back after a few years here.
Really strong accent, and slight speech impediment.
Not used to the accent and I couldn't understand them at all, at first.
Once I figured that out, we did better.
When I told her I was going through the films of australia/new zealand she got very excited, another film buff and we had a lively talk.
Too bad they're moving away, but it was fun.

Go up to people and say, "Hi, I'm _____! Who the fuck are you?"
Ask them what they are doing.
That's all I do.
Ask them about their project, their art, their camp, their car, yes, anything interesting.

Burning man does have that tour group, cruise ship, holiday camp thing going on, that should make it easy for anyone to put aside normal hesitations.
Everyone is there to enjoy themselves, so it shouldn't be that hard to talk to anyone.

I have actually met people there to meet people in their camp.
There was a structure open on one side on the street and they said that was why they did it.

There was the more conventional shade with a sign that said DRINKS.
The people running it said they got tired of running around, so were letting burning man come to them.
I use their camp as a description of theme camps at their basics 'Shade, Drinks and Conversation With Naked Gay Guys'
It was like a small bar with tables. Everyone sat around and talked. Very successful really.

Many of the most interesting people I meet are when I am distracted doing something else, working on my bike, working somewhere.
Delivering mail, you will meet people, because you will constantly be lost.

Burning man has tired cranky people, jerks, yahoos, thieves, just like everywhere else.
And an incredibly high number of scientists, artists, pyro techs (surprize!), film prop etc people, performers, literate and thoughtful people with a sense of humour, writers, and other interesting folks.
Also omfg djs, ravers, celebrities and the dregs of society.
A healthy smattering of cult recruiters and the mentally ill too.

The art cars were all I knew at first.
I go back for the people I meet.
Yes, there are many wonderful people there.

And I see shy people that just can't really talk to people.
We do what we can when we're aware of it.
You know shy people tend to do things that are standoffish without realizing it?
It's a natural tendency under stress.
Body language, etc.
Actors learn to control these things.
Might help to be aware of it for some.

And much of what happens is random chance.
Sometimes subtle changes in attitude seem to affect how you are reacted to.
I've had inexplicable good things happen at times.
Was it my mood? Theirs? Who knows?

I was talking to someone about some camp drama they had seen, few years ago.
They said something about my burn having been ruined, hoped the current one was better.
I told them, "Oh no, that was my best burn yet. Everything was wonderful, but the dramatics."
Very true.
Just keep going, ignore the craziness.

Abkiwi, you can do everything right and have a boring or bad time.
You can have stuff go wrong and have amazing things happen.
Turn a different way and your whole burn changes.

Like everyday, you give up something interesting every time you do something else.
The event just focuses that.
It is important to realize when to drop your plans and realize that unexpectedly, you are in the best place you could be, and stay.

I hope some of this is useful.

Welcome to eplaya.

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:41 am

mentally ill too.


priceless.

I go back for the people I meet.

stop it smalls, yer killing me.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:43 am

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by lucky420 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:12 am

I go black for the people I eat...
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Aurelia » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:14 am

Hey Bad Girl, save me some juice !

xoA.

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by ygmir » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:51 am

lucky420 wrote:I go black for the people I eat...
cajun temptress!!
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by mdmf007 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:36 am

That BM is mostly white is not on purpose, I have not seen anything that BMORG is doing to make it exclusively tailored to a specific group. Since it is largely a participant driven event I am thinking. You can ask the question why is there such a large LGBT presence? (just my observation) Perhaps its because there are LGBT persons that are building projects and involve their friends, and their friends friends and so on. So I am of the school "If you build it they will come" Radical inclusion does not mean I have to cater to someone to make it attractive for a specific group.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by ygmir » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:36 am

all included, none recruited?

does that sound accurate?
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by tatonka » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:56 am

Got out for them to search my veh and asian women says "you thought we were going to search" and she waved uson thru . went to set up camp and walked over to the closest camp and ask a black guy if it was ok to camp there and he said "yes no problem" , then as we were setting up a group of asain people asked to camp next to us , we also said no problem. then some Germans moved on the other side and I told them to" fuck off remember pearl Harbor" :)
j/k also told them there are welcome , they moved later and a bunch of RV's moved in . Lots of young kids , couldnt see but heard south american lingo . They had red on the moop map :(
but anyway the place was full of different people which i enjoyed greatly .
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Asquared » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:22 am

abkiwi wrote:I was told by veterans that Burning Man was a place filled with love. All social barriers are broken down and people come together in the spirit of peace and generosity.

I did meet some, but beyond small talk and minor interactions, it was no different than the outside world.
its this sort of thinking that boggles my mind. burning man is not some alternate universe! it is still 'the outside world' - people are still the same people at burning man.

i actually had a similar experience to you. i met a ton of people (hi, what's your name, a hug), but when it came to really talking / exchanging info / staying in touch - there was only ONE person. he is also on this board and the main reason we linked up at all is because we had already spoken at length. the reason why i had the experience i did was because of me. my "normal" outgoing personality vanished in BRC.

but to say it has anything to do with race or color is a mistake in my eyes. i do, however, recognize that i'm white and probably have a different viewpoint than someone who isnt.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by ygmir » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:43 am

Asquared wrote:
abkiwi wrote:I was told by veterans that Burning Man was a place filled with love. All social barriers are broken down and people come together in the spirit of peace and generosity.

I did meet some, but beyond small talk and minor interactions, it was no different than the outside world.
its this sort of thinking that boggles my mind. burning man is not some alternate universe! it is still 'the outside world' - people are still the same people at burning man.

i actually had a similar experience to you. i met a ton of people (hi, what's your name, a hug), but when it came to really talking / exchanging info / staying in touch - there was only ONE person. he is also on this board and the main reason we linked up at all is because we had already spoken at length. the reason why i had the experience i did was because of me. my "normal" outgoing personality vanished in BRC.

but to say it has anything to do with race or color is a mistake in my eyes. i do, however, recognize that i'm white and probably have a different viewpoint than someone who isnt.
well said
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Savannah » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:32 pm

Eric wrote:
abkiwi wrote:Anyways, prior to attending, I was told by veterans that Burning Man was a place filled with love. All social barriers are broken down and people come together in the spirit of peace and generosity.
The Harsh Reality - your friends, to a degree, lied, and by doing so set you up for expectations that then got dashed against that reality. Not "all" barriers are broken, and while it can be filled with love, it's only going to be that way if you bring "starter love" in with you. There's a big reason any seasoned vet will warn you to try to have as few expectations as possible - we know that having them can ruin your Burn (even though many of us still have to actively work to suppress them).
Agreed.

This is also right up there with "You're going to have an amazing time!" (You might) and "Burning Man will change your life!" (Sometimes it will. But maybe not the first time.) Well-meaning, completely dickish statements from people too starry-eyed to even consider for a second someone else's point of view.

I didn't meet a tribe of like minds until my 4th Burn. That was a product of sheer luck, and talking to strangers--neighbors, fortunately. If I hadn't encountered them several times, I'd never have built a rapport.

I didn't volunteer until my 5th Burn. I wish I'd started sooner.

I didn't attend an ePlaya Meet & Greet until my 7th Burn.

There aren't a lot of people of color at the Burn, but I believe it to be a national socioeconomic and cultural matter, linked to the slow & unadvertised way in which the event seeped into American consciousness--as opposed to an issue of the emotional climate towards people of color at the event, where I can't (personally) point to a single racially uncomfortable moment in 9 Burns over 13 years. I'm not saying that that means there aren't racists on the playa, because I'm confident there are. But I can see my own huge role in my initial disconnection at Burning Man, and how the slow changes in myself have made for a completely different time on the playa now.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Dr. Pyro » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:35 pm

Savannah wrote: I'm not saying that that means there aren't racists on the playa, because I'm confident there are. But I can see my own huge role in my initial disconnection at Burning Man, and how the slow changes in myself have made for a completely different time on the playa now.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Savannah » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:39 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:
Savannah wrote: I'm not saying that that means there aren't racists on the playa, because I'm confident there are. But I can see my own huge role in my initial disconnection at Burning Man, and how the slow changes in myself have made for a completely different time on the playa now.
That's easy for you to say Savannah because you're a babe.
You saucy man! :lol:

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by mgb327 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:39 am

I have a friend that is half black and half Japanese. Every Dec. 7th, he bombs Pearl Bailey........
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:14 am

[media]
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by The CO » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:00 am

Pfffft. Skin color.

Everyone in BRC is a dusty sort of kahki.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Sail Man » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:41 pm

ygmir wrote:
Elorrum wrote:It's a big place. It's like the blind men describing the elephant. You were just feeling a certain part. It's taken me years to develop my footing there and it gets better every year. It isn't instant friends and family... not for me anyway. The inroads I've made to friendships there, mainly started here in this forum.
**this^^^^^^^^^^**

Mostly meeting is through another person for me. I see young, hot folks, making friends everywhere, all the time there. I see more "average" as myself folks, meeting via circumstance and occasion.
Here, on this forum, I've made dear, dear friends.......people I'd do anything for, and feel they'd do for me, as well.

Jump on in here, test the waters, see who might "fit" for you. Don't be overly sensitive, keep your sense of humor.
You'll be amazed and the wonderful folks hereabout.

really.
+100 to both of these statements, and burners. Abkiwi, hang around here on eplaya and I guarantee you will make some very good friends among this bunch. And they won't give a damn about your color, or lack thereof. Next time you go, swing on by the eplaya MnG and you will understand why I consider it to be one of my favorite parts of being on playa.
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by abkiwi » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:43 am

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to say that I encountered racist people. That's not it at all. I was merely pointing out the comfort aspect behind race. Generally speaking, people are more comfortable in the presence of people of their own color. Imagine being back in high school and having to move to China. Your first day on the Chinese school campus, you notice a small group of white students. You will, almost certainly, feel more comfortable approaching and forming a bond with them than your other classmates. For Burning Man, I feel there is a heirarchy. Topping that list would be the white female, followed by the white male, then females of other races and other males who could pass for white. Coming last in the list would be the non-white male.

I remember reading the newspaper in center camp and the first article was about the art car people treating their vehicles like nightclubs. If you're not a hot girl, you don't get a ride. I could relate with the author's feelings as I was rejected at art cars, too. But my feelings of isolation were on another level. I'm going to guess that the author had never experienced being ignored when trying to compliment someone's outfit or musicality...or standing in a circle around the God telephone booth with people passing the phone to everyone but me, until I left in embarrassment...or getting some weird looks while dancing at one of the stages and, again, ignored when asking people how they were doing.

I love the idea of Burning Man - virtually nonexistent commerce, art, music, gifting community, survival, events put on by the patrons, etc. There isn't anything else like this in the world and it would have been nice to experience it with no barriers. Instead, I had to make do and accept the fact that I am an outsider in this place and people will respond to me differently since I am a minority. That's nothing new from life beyond the playa. And I did eventually make do. The pros outweighed the cons and, overall, I had a good experience and left the burn determined to live a better life. I just wish I could have connected with more people at the burn...being white couldn't have hurt. But, burners are people of the world and their comfort zones are understandable.

Anyways, at the time of starting this topic, I wasn't in the best mindset. My birthday had just passed and it wasn't a very good birthday. I had a flashback to Burning Man and remembered being convinced that I would live this new and impressive life after returning home. Things didn't go as planned and I found myself a little depressed. However, I'm in a much more positive, happier state these days, so no worries. I apologize if I gave anyone the wrong impression about racism on the playa. I didn't meet anyone genuinely racist.

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by AntiM » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:43 am

Trust me, fat old white ladies get the cold shoulder on the playa too. While I am fortunate to have the eplaya/Hushville/Boobarian/Utah communities who know me and wrap me up in love, when I venture out on my own, it can be a very lonely experience. I become invisible.

I know I have in no way experienced long term crushing racism, but I have lived in countries where I was in the minority, and you are right, like is drawn to like in such cases.

But you're one of us now, so prepare to be loved.

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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by BBadger » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:24 am

abkiwi wrote:Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to say that I encountered racist people. That's not it at all. I was merely pointing out the comfort aspect behind race. Generally speaking, people are more comfortable in the presence of people of their own color. Imagine being back in high school and having to move to China. Your first day on the Chinese school campus, you notice a small group of white students. You will, almost certainly, feel more comfortable approaching and forming a bond with them than your other classmates. For Burning Man, I feel there is a heirarchy. Topping that list would be the white female, followed by the white male, then females of other races and other males who could pass for white. Coming last in the list would be the non-white male.
Well, that's really a different situation. I know that I'd probably go up to the "white" students somewhere in China because of the expectation that I could communicate with them easier. Hell, I'd probably approach any non-Asian person with the expectation that I could communicate with them easier. My sister is that way with Asians who enter the store where she works: she purposely avoids them because it's hard for her to understand them (or that's her expectation).

There are other factors too, which I think have a much more important judgement quality than race: perceived cultural familiarity (e.g. why immigrants group into "towns"), how people dress, how intimidating a person seems, group reputations (which may include race too, but usually from a certain locale), locale (like people in certain neighborhoods), tattoos, the people they're associating with (and the size of that group), etc.

For example, if I were driving around in backwater deep south, my concern (stereotyped or not) would be more about white hillbillies (think "Deliverance"), than minority racial stuff. I'll also equally avoid people from any race who dress like gangsters. If I meet anyone well dressed and talking well, they're very approachable and the concentration is more on those social aspects than something like race.
I remember reading the newspaper in center camp and the first article was about the art car people treating their vehicles like nightclubs. If you're not a hot girl, you don't get a ride. I could relate with the author's feelings as I was rejected at art cars, too. But my feelings of isolation were on another level. I'm going to guess that the author had never experienced being ignored when trying to compliment someone's outfit or musicality...or standing in a circle around the God telephone booth with people passing the phone to everyone but me, until I left in embarrassment...or getting some weird looks while dancing at one of the stages and, again, ignored when asking people how they were doing.
I'm sorry if that happened to you, especially if it was because of race -- especially something like the telephone thing. Though that incident reminds me of how people act around this one art piece where this rotating column of LED lights surrounds a person and people have to jump in to "participate" in it. Usually what happens is that you think you're helping out and will be "next" to jump in, but then some random jerk will cut in and take it over. It left me with a bad taste in my mouth and when bringing a friend our advice to him was that he had to just jump in and cut in front of people or else he'll never get in. Not everything is nice and sharing on the playa -- even when it's free.

As for your experiences with compliments and being ignored, I can't speak to that -- mostly because I rarely was engaging people that frequently at that level. Maybe if I were talking to people as frequently as it seems like you were I'd get that same reaction too? I don't know. Same thing with the dancing. Usually if I'm dancing at a stage or something I'm in my own world so I'm not noticing any odd looks or raised eyebrows -- because I honestly don't care what the other schmucks think unless they're being entertained.

Who knows if it was because you were doing this alone too? Maybe they thought you were a narc? Sometimes people are suspicious or paranoid out there with people they don't know, who talk to them seemingly out of the blue. Hell, I'm a bit paranoid with random people I don't know -- especially given some past bad incidents with suspected narcs, and a social-engineering bike-thief in our camp.
Anyways, at the time of starting this topic, I wasn't in the best mindset. My birthday had just passed and it wasn't a very good birthday. I had a flashback to Burning Man and remembered being convinced that I would live this new and impressive life after returning home. Things didn't go as planned and I found myself a little depressed. However, I'm in a much more positive, happier state these days, so no worries. I apologize if I gave anyone the wrong impression about racism on the playa. I didn't meet anyone genuinely racist.
Well, come back some day, maybe joining an established camp, and see if your next experience is better. Maybe it'll change your perception. Or reinforce it. Who knows? Regardless, it's hard going there alone and being alone can see you being treated differently no matter who you are.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

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Aurelia
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Camp Name: the Love Camp
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Aurelia » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:33 am

So coming from one year when I was the only white teacher in that ghetto, and my colleagues kindly taught me "correct" responses,

When I lost (dork me) where my car was parked at decompression this year, I went up to the big dark security man to ask for assistance.

He went into himself and acted like a dumb hired stand in.

Weird ! I now seem to expect us all to be the best we can be. no matter what !

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GreyCoyote
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by GreyCoyote » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:19 am

BBadger wrote: For example, if I were driving around in backwater deep south, my concern (stereotyped or not) would be more about white hillbillies (think "Deliverance"), than minority racial stuff.
Son, anyone driving around down in these parts who looks like a meatcake with teeth, is gonna wind-up on a griddle with a side of hush puppies and a big jug of sweet tea. We dont call that "racist". We call it "dinner". :mrgreen:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

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Simon of the Playa
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Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a Wide thing

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:55 am

i'm painfully skinny, and all week, i kept feeling like i didn't fit it....

even worse, people were making clavicle jokes, and i know they were directed at me.
Frida Be You & Me

maladroit
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by maladroit » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:33 am

Oh man, clavicle jokes with the boys...you know you're going to hell every time you laugh, but they're so true, right?

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Savannah
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a White thing

Post by Savannah » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:43 am

:lol:
*** The Burning Man Survival Guide ***

"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger

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Lonesomebri
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Re: I feel Burning Man is a Wide thing

Post by Lonesomebri » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:01 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i'm painfully skinny, and all week, i kept feeling like i didn't fit it....
even worse, people were making clavicle jokes, and i know they were directed at me.
I am guilty of making a few of those harmless jokes, but they weren't directed at YOU. I was just pointing out how goofy those other skinny people, as I said, not you, appear to us normal people who fit in seamlessly. Those jokes had my gut quaking. I have many good friends who are skinny, they're good people. But, yeah, the clavicle thing, too funny. We kicked 2 people out of our bar due to skeletal protrusions we deemed offensive, but they weren't you, and it really wasn't a skinny thing...

And, yeah, I see a skinny person walking thru the playa and i try to avoid hugging them, who needs more bruises?
Camp THREAT: Dominating the porta potties 4 years running.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire, Candide

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