Plug n plays running amuk

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JasonFL
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by JasonFL » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:31 am

Excuse me if this has already been said, I haven't read through all the replies, but our first principle is:

"Radical Inclusion: Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."

I personally don't care how they get there if they can appreciate the experience and participate in some way or another. We gave out a lot of high fives to people passing us on their bikes yelling out "five points... you WIN Burning Man!" Eventually someone asked us how many points it took to "WIN" Burning Man, to which I responded "just one!"

Our gift to them should be acceptance and responsibility for showing them why they are there.

Just MHO.
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Lonesomebri
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:20 pm

JasonFL wrote:Excuse me if this has already been said, I haven't read through all the replies, but our first principle is:
"Radical Inclusion: Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."
I personally don't care how they get there if they can appreciate the experience and participate in some way or another. We gave out a lot of high fives to people passing us on their bikes yelling out "five points... you WIN Burning Man!" Eventually someone asked us how many points it took to "WIN" Burning Man, to which I responded "just one!"
Our gift to them should be acceptance and responsibility for showing them why they are there.
Just MHO.
Rapist? Pedos? I care if these types show up, even if others welcome them unconditionally.
I knew of a party in Mendo county once, full of hippies. A convicted and now released child molester showed up. One of the victims mothers was also at the party. Of course all the fine enlightened radical inclusion people didn't say a word to get the pedo out of there, that would have been negative energy.
Not MHO of radical inclusion.
And how is complaining about obvious bad scenes keeping Plug and Plays out, because, if you opened your eyes, you would see it isn't. Painting the obscene wealthy as victims....I guess someone has to do it.
plug.jpg
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PermaBurgin
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by PermaBurgin » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:28 pm

How could this possibly upset anyone? I didn't even notice them. I was at BRC for ten days and absolutely nobodys attitude or camping setup or outfit upset me in any way whatsoever. Also, as far as I could tell, nobody else was pissed off by anyone elses attitude or camping setup or outfit.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by maladroit » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:46 pm

PermaBurgin wrote:How could this possibly upset anyone? I didn't even notice them. I was at BRC for ten days and absolutely nobodys attitude or camping setup or outfit upset me in any way whatsoever. Also, as far as I could tell, nobody else was pissed off by anyone elses attitude or camping setup or outfit.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by vargaso » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:08 pm

PermaBurgin wrote:How could this possibly upset anyone? I didn't even notice them. I was at BRC for ten days and absolutely nobodys attitude or camping setup or outfit upset me in any way whatsoever. Also, as far as I could tell, nobody else was pissed off by anyone elses attitude or camping setup or outfit.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by lucky420 » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:39 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
JasonFL wrote:Excuse me if this has already been said, I haven't read through all the replies, but our first principle is:
"Radical Inclusion: Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."
I personally don't care how they get there if they can appreciate the experience and participate in some way or another. We gave out a lot of high fives to people passing us on their bikes yelling out "five points... you WIN Burning Man!" Eventually someone asked us how many points it took to "WIN" Burning Man, to which I responded "just one!"
Our gift to them should be acceptance and responsibility for showing them why they are there.
Just MHO.
Rapist? Pedos? I care if these types show up, even if others welcome them unconditionally.
I knew of a party in Mendo county once, full of hippies. A convicted and now released child molester showed up. One of the victims mothers was also at the party. Of course all the fine enlightened radical inclusion people didn't say a word to get the pedo out of there, that would have been negative energy.
Not MHO of radical inclusion.
And how is complaining about obvious bad scenes keeping Plug and Plays out, because, if you opened your eyes, you would see it isn't. Painting the obscene wealthy as victims....I guess someone has to do it.
plug.jpg


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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Royal Turkey » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:40 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
Rapist? Pedos? I care if these types show up, even if others welcome them unconditionally.
I knew of a party in Mendo county once, full of hippies. A convicted and now released child molester showed up. One of the victims mothers was also at the party. Of course all the fine enlightened radical inclusion people didn't say a word to get the pedo out of there, that would have been negative energy.
Not MHO of radical inclusion.
And how is complaining about obvious bad scenes keeping Plug and Plays out, because, if you opened your eyes, you would see it isn't. Painting the obscene wealthy as victims....I guess someone has to do it.
Um.. so now the obscene rich are at the as inadmissible as Rapists and Pedos? :lol:

It seems like at worst they are too afraid to be uncomfortable, and so missing out on the satisfaction of building your burn. Its simply a posh camp with very high dues and no events. They are hoteling maybe more than camping.

Aesthetically a pretty lame way to burn in my opinion.. but fuck it.. it seems to me the only taboo thing to say out there is "you are burning wrong" so I don't do it.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by unjonharley » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:15 pm

Would someone tell me what the "labeled" plug and play are doing to harm Burning Man...
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by maladroit » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:37 pm

unjonharley wrote:Would someone tell me what the "labeled" plug and play are doing to harm Burning Man...
The current theory is that since tickets are limited, they replace "valuable" participants with bland, squeamish upper-crusters and servants/sherpas/security, and none of them contribute back to the community in a creative or interactive way.

I happen to think that the percentage is far too small to negatively affect the event, and that the rest of us are far more likely to affect them in interesting ways. However I could see the above fears having some basis maybe five years in the future, if it grows to a significant percentage of the city.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by BBadger » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:50 pm

gibson_ wrote:Here's what bothers me about the plug and play camps:

They're selling something that isn't theirs to sell. If it wasn't for the volunteers who build/run/strike the city, and the volunteers who come out there to build art, there would be nothing for these camps to sell.

Think about some of the huge art like embrace, or sound camps you see out on the playa. Those things are all coming out, for free, because the people involved in them just want to share.

Those things could ALL charge money. Think about how much it would cost tomorrowland, or some other EDM festival (which is honestly how I think the plug and players see Burning Man, as another EDM festival) to commission something like embrace. At Burning Man, those things just come out because the people building them are passionate about it.

When a plug and play camp starts making money off of those volunteers, they're selling something that wasn't theirs to sell.
Here are some concepts that may blow your mind:
  • Volunteering is you choosing to work for free -- regardless of someone else benefiting from it materially.
  • People who truly "just want to share" should not be concerned with what others share with them. It's a one-way street. They are sharing; they are gifting. They are not preconditioning their gifts because they are not exchanging presents.
  • It doesn't matter if these volunteers could charge money. Sure, they could hawk their goods in Reno or wherever if they chose to. They're not. They're at Burning Man. They built these things because they wanted it at Burning Man, regardless of whatever means or method some other person had to go see this art. Whether or not someone charged admission to attend some camp just to see the artist's work is absolutely inconsequential.
If the above isn't why you are doing things at Burning Man, then why? As some sort of bargain with city goers? Because you can't get out of this give and take mindset?
Would anybody pay $10,000 or whatever a plug and play Burning Man vacation costs if they were going out there during June?
The real question you should be asking is: why should you care?
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by unjonharley » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:52 pm

On who's authority can we say they are less valued than other burners.. Or that they do not participant to the event.. Can some one say they never come out of there motor couches.. How many are under the label of plug and play? 10 000 20 00 or 150??
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:18 pm

I don't much mind the idea of plug and play, but I saw something this year I think around 5:30 and E maybe that was really off-putting. It appeared that almost an entire block was fenced off with a 6 foot black cloth fence. Over the fence all you could see were the peaks of what appeared to be a huge circus tent.

That was a big turn off for me.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by chuckularone » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:40 pm

Never saw hide nor hair of what would have been a PnP camp. My only issue about them would be if (and I stress IF) the employees at those camps were not allowed to venture out and participate. That would be a loss of tickets for those who might participate.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Just_Joe » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:47 pm

Do you think these well-to-do potential future "real" burners pre-registered and had their fingers on the keyboard at noon of the on-sale date like you and I?
If so, more power to them.
I tend to be a little more pessimistic.
Anyone with the resources to produce a luxury camp is going to be snapping up tickets just like scalpers who offer Super Bowl packages.
BM can "scrub" the lists all they want. I know the business. It wouldn't take much work at all for someone with a little knowledge to pull 10-50 tickets using relatively small network.
I can handle and would welcome a PnP'er who *may* contribute during this or his next burn.
What I can't handle is _anyone_ who pays a premium for an ill-gotten ticket because it's the path of least resistance.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by BBadger » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:13 pm

DEAR GOD! 10-50 tickets!
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by CptSparkles » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:52 pm

We were camped at 9:07 and Jade (Camp Chameleon, pancakes fuck yeah!) right across from the PnP that has been discussed most in this particular thread (Blissfits Village I believe it was called). In all honesty, I really didn't notice them other than the fact that it was a wall of RV's... It was almost the same as if the entire block had been unoccupied, except that it impeded traffic through the block. That's probably the worst of it, as you have a wall a RV's and not a row of interesting camps (Like ours obviously). We had some of the campers stop by in their moon rover art car though, they all seemed perfectly cool.

I'm really not qualified to say much about PnP'ers. I can't say I like it, but I also don't really care. Many are (t)here for the experience. Everyone's experience is different, and as Sandstorm related back in page 2, some people learn they don't like it, and probably don't come back. Fine, good on them. Maybe they learned something about themselves. My experience this year was 100% different, as I was doing some significant volunteer stuff with ESD. I still enjoyed my burn.

Now, what did I *not* like? The 9 and L sound camp that played distorted, deep base from 9am to midnight every day, with shitty DJ's, that I could hear at 96dB (my multimeter has a decibel meter) in my insulated box a block away. Now, if that actually contributed to something, great. BUT THERE WAS NEVER A SINGLE FUCKING PERSON DANCING AT THE VENUE!!! (Hint: They went to the non-sucky venue 3 blocks inward.) It made sleeping after a midnight to 8am graveyard shift rather... interesting. We coudln't hear distrikt though. Hell, distrikt would have been an improvement, as at least the beat would have been constant and the bass non-distorted and turned off by 9-10pm. I can sleep through that at least.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Jackass » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:04 pm

CptSparkles wrote:Now, what did I *not* like? The 9 and L sound camp that played distorted, deep base from 9am to midnight every day, with shitty DJ's, that I could hear at 96dB (my multimeter has a decibel meter) in my insulated box a block away. Now, if that actually contributed to something, great. BUT THERE WAS NEVER A SINGLE FUCKING PERSON DANCING AT THE VENUE!!! (Hint: They went to the non-sucky venue 3 blocks inward.) It made sleeping after a midnight to 8am graveyard shift rather... interesting. We coudln't hear distrikt though. Hell, distrikt would have been an improvement, as at least the beat would have been constant and the bass non-distorted and turned off by 9-10pm. I can sleep through that at least.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Jovankat » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:14 pm

jkisha wrote:I don't much mind the idea of plug and play, but I saw something this year I think around 5:30 and E maybe that was really off-putting. It appeared that almost an entire block was fenced off with a 6 foot black cloth fence. Over the fence all you could see were the peaks of what appeared to be a huge circus tent.

That was a big turn off for me.

Err... That was commissary.. :roll:

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by CptSparkles » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:05 pm

Jackass wrote: 9 & L? = PnP, Reference Photo Pg.1
Could have been... I remember biking along the backside though on my way to pt 1 and seeing lots of tents, so it didn't seem totally plug and play. They weren't officially placed as far as I know, they weren't on any of the placement maps I saw.

To be specific, this is the one at 8:59 and L (corner), not the one at 9:01 and L (corner, which had the large red shade structure). The 9:01 and L at least had good plays, burlesque shows, etc, and they weren't the source of shitty bass.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Jackass » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:23 pm

They can't get placement, they aren't meant to be enjoyed by just any old non-paying BRC citizen and contribute little to nothing to the city. That check has to have cleared the bank first.

It's the same book, it just has a different cover.

Wall of RVs and mega-gennies billowing noise and exhaust or 8ft plywood fence all around, pick yer poison.

(And L is actually the outermost road)
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by andy » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:38 pm

I would agree with the posters that the issue of "sherpa" camps is one of participation, not money. A few weeks ago I spent $100 on a concert ticket. For that, I was entitled to hear Paul McCartney sing, and watch his light and fireworks show. There was no expectation that I need to give beyond that.

This year I spent 5 months and probably $1,000 on my art project. I also spent probably $2,000 on my own stuff (tickets, gas, yurt, food, etc). Yes, the art project was a gift to the community, but it comes with a sort of social contract - I'm willing to do it because others create cool stuff for me to see and do, although no one keep score. OTOH if someone paid $10K to camp in a luxury PnP *and* did nothing else but view my art, all of that money was spent on themselves, and to me that violates the social contract. Of course, if these folks are also participating outside of their camp, excellent, and I have no issue with how much luxury they choose to buy themselves. But our camp actively worked to drag people in off the street to enjoy our zipline, watch our (volunteer) professional aerialists, and drink our liquor and roped-off camps typically don't do that.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Jackass » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:41 pm

They don't use ropes...they're to easy to see through.


That 10K package might get you an air-conditioned yurt or spring bar.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by tattoogoddess » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:50 am

Ummmmmmmmm..... I think you guys should read this.
I hope it's not true. If so..... Burning man is changing and not in a good way what so ever.

http://burners.me/2014/09/05/plug-n-pla ... e-pyramid/
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by lucky420 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:39 am

It's always evolving. And burners.me seems to have a stick up its ass a lot of the times...

We had a plug and play kitty corner across from us at 6:30 & g. They did offer life coaching in front of their fortress a few times during the event. We were hoping it would be something more exciting but whatever.

Tamara Kay and I were offering street margaritas to neighbors and those passing by at random times. We went over to this camp one day and offered up our sweet drinks. We met 3/4 very beautiful young women who were quite friendly and accepted our margs. We also spoke to the handsome young guy who was building the life coach sign. Nice guy and had a marg too.

That was it. Our sole interaction with them and it was fine. There were lots, lots more of other people to play with.

When I'm on the playa, pnp don't bother me. I'm to busy playing, setting up, volunteering,etc. And a pnp clear the fuck out on L? I never venture that way. it's only when I get back do I wonder if I really give a shit. The answer? Meh, not really.

There will always be richer people than you or I. It's how the world works. I wish I was rich,most likely never will be. But I'm pretty happy with my life as it stands and getting to upset about shit that will never change is just an exercise in frustration.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by tatonka » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:00 am

If I get rich my sherpa's better have coconuts ,so I can hear the sound of my horse's hoof's :)

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by danibel » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:06 am

lucky420 wrote:
And a pnp clear the fuck out on L? I never venture that way.
I don't venture out to L either. I live in a nice little neighborhood - 5:15 and I-J - But there was one at 5:15 and H that was just your typical circle the wagons RV's. It was not interactive. They had the genies running all day for people we never saw. They rolled in on EA's to set up and used up tickets that could have been for participants. I guess that is mostly what is bothering me. The EA's should not be for rich people to land grab and take up prime spots. The org knows who all these people are. They could stop this from happening, but they won't because of radical inclusion and all that (they say but we all know it's the mighty dollar).

If they are going to continue - let them be a wind block on L or K or whatever, just put them on the out skirts of the city. They can ride their segways to center camp if they like.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by tatonka » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:12 am

I was at 5:15 between k and l very quite there . Most everyone around me was near my age ( older ) Kids moved in on L and they played some mellow music. :)

Last year I was at 7:15 and L and the sound from 9:00 area was on all night , wore earplugs for sleeping.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elorrum » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:14 am

danibel wrote: They can ride their segways to center camp if they like.
It's a let down having a total block completely negated. Going past things and people to see and say hello to, then nothing, like a dead area to get through. If they are going to be blocking huge sections of the street why not put them in a commuter camp area. it's not like they are walking anywhere. Perhaps they'd feel more secure in their own "special" place.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:15 am

Who are "we" that know "it's mighty dollar"??

Prove it or its not true....

You stood watch 24/7 to be able to say they did not participate ?
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Thecatman » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:28 am

Jackass wrote:I just got back and what I witnessed with these dipshit, rich Hollywood Techie types was sickening.
It shouldn't come as a surprise. All the hoopla in northern Nevada this week is that we won the bribing contest to lure tesla motors into building a multi billion dollar battery factory in Storey county. Turns out that the president/ceo of tesla is an "avid burner". I'm good with that. He calls Burning Man an "arts-tech-counterculture" event. According to the Wall Street Urinal the ceo stayed in an "elaborate rv compound" on the playa in 2011.
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