Plug n plays running amuk

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:24 pm

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by VultureChow » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:30 pm

For some reason this scene comes to mind.

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:38 pm

actually, i was going for jimmy stewart....





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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:47 pm

Ho hum... Boring.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:50 pm

nice try...


hey, how come your name isn't in green yet?
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:58 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:nice try...


hey, how come your name isn't in green yet?
Nice try? I wasn't trying to do anything other than to say IMHO the whole topic has gone from interesting to just droning on and on. Not that that is different than any other thread here, but I think this is an important topic and deserves better.

My name green? IDK Probably because green isn't one of my favorite colors?
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:36 pm

I'd love to hear what you have to say, Elderberry.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Jackass » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:45 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I'd love to hear what you have to say, Elderberry.

I second this. Since you decided to bump the thread for no reason at all. Are you pleading indifference and burying your head as well?
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:56 pm

This was the first time I heard of the "Sherpas" and how they were treated by some camp organizers, and if true, I find that appalling, but easily fixed.

But for the most part, I don't find much wrong with the concept in general. Anybody that has seen our setup knows we enjoy a certain bit of luxury on the playa.

Where I think these camps are missing the boat is that they are trying to sell the experience without the essence. Our camp holds meetings with and for all new members endoctrinating them on the principles and self reliance, etc. and we require participation in the cafe or craft tent as a condition of membership.

I think that if the PnP camps made those things a requirement in addition to paying the dues for luxuries, it would make a big difference in the attitudes of the attendees and the event as a whole. Without some level of required participation, members of those camps are missing out on some of the most important parts of the event.

That's what I think, for what it's worth.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by maladroit » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:01 pm

I still think that plug and plays have a place, and that exposing these people to our culture is probably a good thing.

However, I'm willing to throw the good out with the bad. If five bankers have a minor epiphany it's not worth fifty hourly workers having a shitty experience because of our culture.

I also don't think cutting the head off the snake will make a difference. The people that want to do this will simply find less embarrassingly obvious ways to do it. We'll go from the poorly concealed bumblings of amateurs, to someone who actually knows how to exert influence while covering their tracks.

Start with the tail. Make it silly or shameful to do this. Make it uncomfortable. Tempt away their employees. Start a union of Burning Man Workers, and then strike. Invite other agencies to the list monitoring the event...how about the Nevada Office of the Labor Commissioner. How about OSHA.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:32 pm

"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:34 pm

sell the experience

and therein lies the rub, John.


if you walk away from burning man with more MONEY than you came with YOU ARE DOING IT FUCKING WRONG.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:37 pm

The labels of sherpas and plug and play have been flung around this thread..

There has been no proof of the imagined innuendos posted as the truth of what go's on in those camps...

Again without proof.. The BMorg has been painted the Snidely Whiplash behind this great conspiracy.. Sure got the pitchfork and torch gang on there feet..

And again, like the weather.. Everyone talks about it.. No one dose anything..

Yes, the BMorg should look into these motor couch camps.. But not behind this threads half truths rioters..
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Nipple » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:42 pm

From Elsewhere:

My ideas are baked in a little more after conversations with my local group...

USS, the Porto/Sanitation vendor are TOTALLY paid employees. They're also required as part of the sanitation plan. The cops are also employees of the state/Federal government.
These things are required by the jurisdictions involved, and you pay for them with your ticket price. (Sorry Grover... BRC isn't a tax free utopia...) I'm OK with this.
There are also volunteer employees paid by the ORG out there. That's just the cost of doing the event. They're out there for months, so they're on contract to be paid for their time. They're providing civil services... I'm OK with that.
All vendors and people making a wage out there above the board, are tracked by vendor agreements with the ORG/Event Staff. There are different credentials and passes that monitor their movement in and out of the city.
What I'm not OK with is non-vendor, ticketed participants (aka Black Rock City Citizens like you or I) being there lacking autonomy because they're wage slaves to other participants.
It fails the sniff test of decommodification, radical inclusion, participation, gifting, self-expression, communal effort, civic responsibility, participation and immediacy.
That's pretty much all the reindeer. (That just leaves LNT... and what do you want to bet that we'll have a pretty awesome uproar when the moop maps come out? I've got a pretty big hat, and I'm prepared to takes some bites out of it if Caravancicle is green.)
This behavior doesn't respect out culture. I'd like to see if not outright banning of secondary market employment out there (i.e. non-event staff), I'd like to see it registered/controlled by the org with already existing channels, and I'd like to see the Nevada labor boards out there keeping tabs on these "contract" workers since they're not being protected by the state or federal standards that still surround the event. Much like the health board is out there inspecting food servers.
They way Caravancicle operated, they're closer to Human Trafficking than they are contracting employment. (You don't behave? No food or water... in the fucking DESERT? You're fucking KIDDING me!)
I'd really rather they're not out there at all, but if they HAVE to be, they need to be on the up and up.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:43 pm

you are right Unjon.

A THOROUGH investigation needs to be done by the proper authorities into these very very serious allegations.

The Dept Of Labor has been mentioned.

i think thats a good start.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by littleflower » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:49 pm

I have no problem with people making money at burning man ..... who knows, it may be a great job ....

My problem is that all of these sherpas need a ticket, and available tickets are not plentiful.

it means that someone who really wants to go to Burning Man misses out because someone is WORKING, rather than being a participant.

I love the idea of kidnapping them ...........

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:54 pm

Simon, Simon, Simon. You do that intentionally. I know you know what she meant, and that wasn't it.
I have no problem with people making money at burning man

you're right...


fuck it.


lets set up the goddamn food court and merch tables in center camp.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by maladroit » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:56 pm

Well, unjonharley brings up a good point that not much of this can be PROVEN. Yet. We have a few stories. These camps don't even exist anymore...and the people who DID read the contracts might have a good reason for staying quiet for now. It doesn't really matter if a contract is bad faith or unenforceable if you can't pay a lawyer to explain that to a judge.

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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by H.G.Crosby » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:14 pm

the truth is out there.


and we shall find out what it is.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by graidawg » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:20 pm

lets not be lawyers here. sure the mods pull posts that could lead to a lawsuit but we aren't going to be taking anyone to court, we can't stop the turnkey camps - and maybe we shouldn't. but what we should certainly do is go to those camps and tell the staff they can leave and we have ways to look after them. and if they need a ride home - well we can sort that too.
The big PnP camps will very quickly change how they operate if they know the staff can just walk away - sure they get no pay, but tehy do get to go to burning man, so they will offer better pay, shorter hours (more staff i guess).
after all how many millionare are going to leave and demand a rfund when they find out they need to mix drinks themselves.
so lets stop pointless posts about what the gov. will do if they find out, they wont or if they do nothing will happen - unless one of the staff has a contract and some kind of evidence of foul play its not going to happen.

so what we should be doing is what MDF said, print laminates saying sherpas welcome - go to the camps and tell the staff, even tell the customers what they are supporting, and why they are chinging the event for the worse, possibly even breaking it eventually.

also while we are at it. stop putting up wifi transmitters. dont bring defaultia to BM anymore than we have to - if you do realy really need wifi switch it on when you need it then put it away again.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:25 pm

i'm not going to tell anyone How to Burn Graidawg...




however, if indeed labor laws were broken, those responsible will be getting a phone call, at the very least, from someone in a position of Authority.



no ifs, ands, or buts.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:27 pm

Yup, labor laws is something that the government still takes very seriously.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:32 pm

these are very disturbing allegations, and in all seriousness, if these are proven to be true, someone is going to have some 'splainin' to do.











to a judge.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:46 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
A THOROUGH investigation needs to be done by the proper authorities into these very very serious allegations.

The Dept Of Labor has been mentioned.

i think thats a good start.
On this point we are 100% in agreement.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:53 pm

littleflower wrote:
My problem is that all of these sherpas need a ticket, and available tickets are not plentiful.

it means that someone who really wants to go to Burning Man misses out because someone is WORKING, rather than being a participant.
That is an EXCELLENT point that I heretofore had not considered.
Though as I get older, I have thought more of paying for someone's ticket in return for helping setup, tear down, and other miscellaneous chores. Though they would have plenty of free time to enjoy the burn.
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by unjonharley » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:53 pm

Must have been a mess of early arrive passes for that big of a land grab..

Might be a hole in getting EA passes.

Did the camper arrive in those motor couches?? Were drivers bringing them?? Did campers have other transportation?? Did the roady's each drive a car in?? That would take a few vehicle passes..
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by H.G.Crosby » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:03 pm

[media]
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:05 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
sell the experience

YOU ARE DOING IT FUCKING WRONG.
Hmmm... I didn't think there was any right or wrong way to do it. At least that's what I thought I remembered reading in many other post here on eplaya. (though there's that Ahlzheimer's thing)

BMORG itself is selling the experience. Think about it. You can't go without BUYING a ticket, and BMORG certainly ends the event with more money in the bank than they had before the event.

It's not so much the money making than it is how the money is spent. Everything is paid for before entering the gate, the same as anyone else that spends thousands of dollars getting there and setting up their camp. Just because some people have more money to spend enhancing their burn doesn't necessarily mean they are doing it wrong.

How those people are endoctrinated to the principles of Burning Man is what matters.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:09 pm

How those people are endoctrinated to the principles of Burning Man is what matters.


sorry kisha, but i'd never join a cult that would have me as a member...
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Re: Plug n plays running amuk

Post by Elderberry » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:11 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
How those people are endoctrinated to the principles of Burning Man is what matters.


sorry kisha, but i'd never join a cult that would have me as a member...
Bad choice of words.
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